Updated: India, Brazil reject Snowden’s asylum request; Snowden withdraws request to Russia

[ProSense]

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 09:44 AM - Edit history (1)

India Rejects Snowden’s Asylum Request

India said Tuesday that it has turned down the asylum request submitted to the country by National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden, the Associated Press reported.

The announcement is the latest setback for the 30-year-old former government contractor, whose hopes of finding refuge appear to be growing increasingly long. Reports out of Moscow, where Snowden has been staying for more than a week, indicated that he withdrew his asylum application to Russia after several European countries turned him down.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/india-rejects-snowdens-asylum-request

Snowden Withdraws Asylum Request To Russia

MOSCOW (AP) — NSA leaker Edward Snowden’s attempts to seek refuge outside the United States hit hurdles Tuesday, after Russian media reported he canceled his asylum bid in Russia and several European countries said such applications wouldn’t be considered if they were made from abroad.

Russian news agencies Tuesday quoted President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov as saying that Snowden withdrew his request when he learned about the terms Moscow has set out. Putin said on Monday that Russia is ready to shelter Snowden as long as he stops leaking U.S. secrets...Putin said he had no plans to turn over Snowden to the United States.

Several of the other countries where the WikiLeaks says Snowden has applied for asylum have said he cannot apply from abroad. Officials in Germany, Norway, Austria, Poland, Finland and Switzerland all said he must make his request on their soil...requests have also been made to Bolivia, Brazil, China, Cuba, Ecuador, France, Iceland, India, Italy, Ireland, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Spain and Venezuela.

Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro, who is visiting Moscow, told Russian reporters on Tuesday that his country has not received an application for asylum from Snowden. Maduro dodged the question whether he may take Snowden away with him to Venezuela.

- more -
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/edward-snowden-russia-asylum-nsa-leak.php

Updated to add:

Brazil Turns Down Snowden’s Asylum Request

Brazil's foreign ministry spokesman said Tuesday that the country will not grant asylum to National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden, Reuters reported.

The spokesman said that the request submitted by the 30-year-old former government contractor, who's currently in Moscow, will go unanswered.

India also rejected Snowden's asylum request on Tuesday.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/brazil-turns-down-snowdens-asylum-request

Rafael Correa: we helped Snowden by mistake
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023144881

Josh Marshall: "Snowden’s pretty screwed."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023144319

[randome]

1. He withdrew the Russian request because he didn't like Putin's terms.

The man is getting in deeper and deeper.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[ProSense]

11. It's not looking good. n/t

[tridim]

2. He should have just built his shack in Bumfuck Montana months ago while he had the chance.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. And the White House is still proudly spying on every American

Which is much the larger issue.

[ProSense]

4. Start a thread. n/t

[ProSense]

5. Better yet,

post that same comment here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023137494

[Logical]

8. They don't mind that. They just hate the messenger! n-t

[ProSense]

10. Yeah,

"They don't mind that. They just hate the messenger!"

...irony!

Congrats Prosense, this is your 1000th Snowden post!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023147692#post6

[Logical]

12. LOL, you are not the messenger Prosense, you scan the....

Internet for news stories that match your agenda and repost them.
Not a hard job. But time consuming I assume.

[ProSense]

13. OMG

"LOL, you are not the messenger Prosense, you scan the....Internet for news stories that match your agenda and repost them.
Not a hard job. But time consuming I assume. "

...I "scan the....Internet for news stories"!!!

[great white snark]

18. LOL how dare you scan the internet for news stories ProSense.

You could always go the route of "a real Liberal" like BBI and have them sent to you.

[Logical]

21. Ok, I can not wait to hear what complicated process I am missing! n-t

[ProSense]

23. LOL!

"Ok, I can not wait to hear what complicated process I am missing!"

I "scan the....Internet for news stories"!!!

Duh!

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. Duh, indeed. Not very "Logical" is it?

[ProSense]

58. .

[BumRushDaShow]

17. Rather than make fairy tale shit up like some DUers? nt

[Logical]

22. You make up shit? Why? N-t

[Sheepshank]

25. Make this same comment to those that regularly scan the media

for breaking stories that attempts to paint the Whitehouse red?

I haven't seen any.

You understand the irony...right?

[Logical]

27. I sure will if they do it 100 times a day! Get the difference now? n-t

[ProSense]

31. Wait,

"I sure will if they do it 100 times a day! Get the difference now?"

...excuse and justification by straw man?

Yeah, I get "the difference."

It's obsession: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3050477

[Logical]

40. Double wait stalker!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2833842

[ProSense]

41. OMG

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2832845
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2833217
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2833286

Yeah, follow that to get to the link you provided.

Yikes!

[Logical]

42. OMG, lol, finally after the 10th time you quit! n-t

[ProSense]

43. I think

"OMG, lol, finally after the 10th time you quit!"

...you have issues: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3050477

[Logical]

44. LOL, You only have three posts about Snowden on the front page! Who....

Has an obsession?

[ProSense]

45. Oh my.

"LOL, You only have three posts about Snowden on the front page! Who....

Has an obsession? "

Do you think I'm in the news and your "obsession" (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3050477) with me is justified?

I mean, if you can find news reports on me, by all means post them. The rest is creepy.

[Logical]

47. LOL, you really need to find another topic! It is getting boring! You got...

A good ass kicking here on the chained CPI defense! Discuss that some more!

[ProSense]

48. Um

"LOL, you really need to find another topic! It is getting boring! You got...

A good ass kicking here on the chained CPI defense! Discuss that some more! "

...creepy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3050477

[Logical]

49. Lol....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2833842

[ProSense]

51. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3149486

Creepy!

[Logical]

52. And let's not forget the time your paranoia kicked in again!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3050268

"signal to swarm "

LOL!

[ProSense]

53. Yeah, that

led to the creepy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3050477

[snooper2]

24. how

Besides the fact that we know you didn't brush your teeth this morning and you left coffee stains in the sink...


Rinse that shit after you dump your cup!

[Logical]

6. Congrats Prosense, this is your 1000th Snowden post! n-t

[ProSense]

7. Thanks for taking the time to count them.

Appreciate it.

[HipChick]

14. Aww Shucks..as smart as he is claiming to be...he didn't think this part out

He might as well come back home...I'm sure there will plenty of folk to meet him at the airport.

[ProSense]

15. It's highly likely

that these countries are seeing the information and situation for what it is: a distortion of events.

I mean, Snowden and Greenwald's initial reports were false (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023137494). He is selectively leaking information in an attempt to create a specific impression, and at the same time distorting the information being released.

It's likely these countries are seeing the big picture, and Snowden is losing credibility.

[randome]

16. You called it. Why else did Hong Kong let him go?

Why else did Putin say he was free to go elsewhere?
And why do the Wikileaks attorneys not want anything to do with him?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[ProSense]

19. Exactly.

It seems he's a headache these countries do no want to deal with.

[leveymg]

26. The post by Recursion you linked to as support has been discredited. Recursion partially withdrew

his assertion that NSA analysts and contractors can't view US Person communications without a warrant, FBI tasking, and close managerial supervision.

There is no situation where a single analyst can just look at whatever the hell he wants. Snowden was lying about that. What's more, the NSA isn't doing any of the gathering itself.

He partially withdraws that theory here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3141455

He did that after I pointed out to Recursion that his interpretation is missing a set of important steps and pieces that make a mash of his hypothesis about how PRISM operates:

1) The PRISM Tasking Process flowchart describes an NSA profiling process that does not involve the FBI at any level until the very end, when the FBI ESCU determines the suspect is or is not a US person.
2) The first step in the PRISM process is conducted by software that searches a series of interlinked databases and assembles a predictive profile. The scoring on that profile determines the subject as a potential target. Bill Binney describes that profiling process here: http://civic.mit.edu/blog/schock/the-government-is-profiling-you-william-binney-former-nsa
3) Until the FBI determines that the subject is a US person, the subject is presumed to be a non-US person, and the profiling part of the system affords no 4th Amendment protections in the warrantless search of an array of databases, including those of other US and foreign intelligence services.
4) During this tasking (profiling) stage, the analyst also has access to a near real-time take of the subject's internet activities and chat. No warrant is required for the analyst to carry out this human component of the profiling process. That is described at greater length here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023134820
5) The analyst has 72 hours to search across NSA and outside agency databases, as well as real-time monitoring, from the time an anticulable suspicion is raised. During that investigation, supervision is minimal, and the analyst does not have to seek additional permission or a warrant. This initial profiling step is probably the unsupervised analyst's activities that Snowden was describing.

Those facts that may have been unknown or underappreciated by Recursion, but he (previously had) declined to reconsider his rather harsh conclusion:

There is no situation where a single analyst can just look at whatever the hell he wants. Snowden was lying about that. What's more, the NSA isn't doing any of the gathering itself.

I've developed this in greater detail at my OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023134820

[ProSense]

28. What?

"He partially withdraws that theory here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3141455"

You're pointing to an acknowledgment of the law as evidence that the OP is invalid?

That has nothing to do with the point.

[leveymg]

34. The point he's making is that Snowden must be lying about viewing US Person coms.

I have shown and convinced the other poster (whose opinion you rely on) that analysts have 72 hours to view the database before the law says they have to seek a FISA or Title III warrant to target and continue. In "exigent circumstances," that period extends out to a week.

The tasking (profiling) process is mostly automated, particularly at the initial stages. The system redflags calls that are triggered by the algorithm. A case is then assigned to an analyst for completion. During that initial profiling process -- that can take 72 hours -- the analyst is minimally supervised. Only once the analyst determines a there is "reasonable articulable suspicion" do managers get involved in the decision-making process of whether to "sign off" and escalate the case for a warrant.

[ProSense]

38. Actually,

"I have shown and convinced the other poster (whose opinion you rely on) that analysts have 72 hours to view the database before the law says they have to seek a FISA or Title III warrant to target and continue. In "exigent circumstances," that period extends out to a week."

...not only is that not the case from reading the exchange, but also that was not the point of the OP.

In fact, reiterating the law still makes the claim utterly bogus. That is not the case.

[leveymg]

55. That's my point, and it's accurate.

The OP is really not relevant to that point. I did demonstrate that a loophole in the law allows NSA 72 hrs of unfettered access to US Person content, and if Snowden says he and other analysts could and did access US persons comms, it would likely have been during that window. The claim is not bogus - you have absolutely no factual basis on which to make that claim.

[ProSense]

57. Wait,

"The OP is really not relevant to that point. "

...what? The OP is "relevant" to the point it made. You're addressing something else, which is why it's "not relevant" to the OP point.

[randome]

32. And you don't think sign-offs have to occur first?

If any of this is as Snowden portrays it, why wasn't he able to get access to anyone's private data? I mean he clearly hates Obama and he doesn't have any scruples about breaking the law so why didn't he get a copy of the President's email as he claimed he could do?

The answer seems to be that he did NOT have the access he claims. He lied or he was mistaken.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[leveymg]

36. Analysts are assigned cases, initially, but sysadmins may have more access.

Again, while a case is being initially reviewed for "articulable suspicion" the analyst has 72 hours to access the databases without a warrant or any FBI involvement.

If you take that into consideration, it becomes clear that Snowden's story is consistent with procedures actually followed.

[randome]

37. I truly doubt anyone can simply do that without sign-offs, though.

And the 'evidence' of that is that Snowden was -unsurprisingly- unable to get evidence that he had that kind of access.

The only things he stole were internal NSA office documents. PowerPoint slides, for the most part. There is simply not much to go on there.

I also doubt that contractors had access to confidential data.

But we don't know that and we should know.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[leveymg]

46. They all have access to confidential data - that's what the TS/SCI clearance is for.

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Thanks to Hayden's brilliant policy of outsourcing and privatization, the contractors now have the same jobs (and access) as NSA employees, only there are more contractors now.

[randome]

50. You don't KNOW that they all have access to confidential data.

And Snowden's lack of evidence that he did means what to you, then?

That he isn't very bright?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[leveymg]

56. There's no factual reason not to believe Snowden had access to US Person Comms.

As I've shown, a loophole in FISA created by the PATRIOT Act allows a 72 hour window during which NSA can look at US Person content without a warrant. Snowden appears to have been in a position where he had access to that system.

[ProSense]

20. Countries that have rejected Snowden's request:

Austria No.

Brazil No.

Ecuador No.

Finland No.

India No.

Ireland No.

Norway No.

Poland No.

Russia No.

Spain No.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/edward-snowden-nsa-asylum-application-list-countries

[sheshe2]

29. Oh Eddie...

It seems like Edward Snowden has offered his citizenship to at least 21 countries via auction from Moscow’s airport transit area. It is not yet clear if anyone will bid but it is interesting nonetheless to analyze what mr. Snowden is trying to sell and why anyone would buy.

Snowden essentially has two assets: sensitive information and the ability to give a leader a temporary boast in popularity. From his willingness to freely share sensitive information it would appear that Snowden is betting on the latter (although he may be holding back more information). Unfortunately for the U.S. he has already spent considerable time with representatives from two governments that the U.S. would least like this information to be shared with.

Any leader bidding for Snowden’s citizenship faces a time inconsistency problem: how can Snowden be assured that a leader doesn’t just use him for immediate popularity gains (perhaps to help win an election?) and then throws him under the bus? From this perspective, a European country would be ideal (Switzerland comes to mind). This is not because European leaders are more trustworthy but because most countries there have legal systems that heavily constrain extradiction. Snowden could even fight it all the way up to the European Court of Human Rights if it came to that.

http://themonkeycage.org/2013/07/02/the-political-economy-of-edward-snowden/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+themonkeycagefeed+(The+Monkey+Cage)

[randome]

35. I bid $12! Going once, going twice...

I figure I can take him off the shelf during Christmas and he can trim the tree for me.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[sheshe2]

59. Sold~

I will gift wrap him for free, randome.

[CakeGrrl]

30. That evil Obama/Biden duo is intimidating the world!

Or maybe the world simply knows a bad bet when it sees one.

[ProSense]

33. No kidding.

"That evil Obama/Biden duo is intimidating the world!"

I mean, it was only a few days ago that people were posting with "glee" about Ecuador snubbing the U.S., praising Correa, and hoping that Snowden was going to be given asylum there.

The U.S. was a dying empire and the world was going to speed its death. Anyone not cheering that end, Snowden or Greenwald is an "authoritarian."

Narrative FAIL!

[onyourleft]

39. That is...

...really too bad.