So you blow up the world order you hate so much.

[Skidmore]

1. Have you done it without a major war?
2. What do you replace it with and how will you accomplish this?

Seriously. I would like to know how this brave new world is coming about. Do things magically fall in place the way you think they should? Is everybody on the same page about what comes after and how it comes into fruition?

Asking because I haven't seen anything addressed beyond the machinations of the moment. What's the plot?

[randome]

1. There are a lot of unhappy people in the world.

They can't seem to articulate beyond wanting something to change. Maybe it's the lack of real leaders that make some so willing to latch onto anything that promotes a change.

We are beyond the territory of ludicrousness, I think, when someone like Snowden is hailed as 'Paul Revere'.

In a climate like this we are ripe for a charismatic leader who will lead us off a cliff.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Skidmore]

3. As I've read over the past few days, that yawning abyss that

comes with deconstruction is what I see ahead. And I see no leaders yet and no notion of structures to fill it yet. If you point to Egypt as an example, you see a mini version of the strife that can ensue even when an attempt is made to establish a scaffold to build on. Here we appear to love drama for its sake alone.

[randome]

7. Does the Egyptian movement have leaders? At least ones we can see from outside?

I haven't heard of any but maybe that's the fault of the media for not reporting on them.

Visibility is usually a defense.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Skidmore]

9. I'm thinking back to the original Egyptian Spring in which

there was some effort put into establishing the groundwork for building a new government. Someone stepped forward to actually do that work on behalf of the people. That was a proactive step, while now may just be as you say, a defense.

[The Straight Story]

2. Sorry, we are all a little too busy

Worrying about each other with hand lotion, guns, water bottles, pressure cookers, and watching trials on TV.

The plot is - you and I are bad, government good, so lets pass more laws to protect us from each other while the 1% pillages and the government helps them.

The only plan we have is to keep passing more laws and complaining and those who complain about it all we label as Obama haters and libertarians.

And those that dissent and bring to light issues of abuse of power? Let's demonize them and ignore the issues.

[Skidmore]

4. How about putting snark aside and

giving an idea of where you think this is all headed? Where would you like it to go? What does the world ahead look like to you? What would you like to see?

[The Straight Story]

5. Hmm, what does it look like to me?

The poor and the middle class have little to no power. We are used for the few and thrown a bone here and there.

We don't get to see what is in trade deals. The wealthy get away with crimes that we would be in prison for.

Lobbyists and bankers get to meet with the president and congress at will, while we get voice mail and form letters.

I would like to go to a place where we work together as a people for the common good of us all and not the few.

The world ahead looks ugly as we pit people against each other and use the poor/pawns to fight wars while the children of the one percent sit at home.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

8. You should take that advice

[Skidmore]

10. Do you have anything to contribute?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

11. Do you? snark doesn't count

[Skidmore]

12. I'm asking if you wish to contribute something of substance.

Please do.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

17. See post #6 and I'm asking you to STOP

[Skidmore]

18. Request noted but I will continue to

ask questions and voice my opinions and concerns without seeking the consent of anyone.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

19. Stop the snark and conspiracy theories

Thank you.

This OP is based on nothing more than FUD, if you want to discuss something with a positive response cut out the nonsense.

[SQUEE]

15. I fear this is heading to eventual Balkanization

here in America, and to a general Corporatist international hegemony.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

6. You need to get out more

Stop talking to yourselves to begin with.

And no one is talking about "blowing up" anything except the totalitarians with their drones and armies of mass destruction.

[sibelian]

13. ... what ... are you TALKING about?

Are your opinions extracted only from an adolescent, fatalist anti-utopianism?

Is this why you think it's OK for the US to fuck with people? Because there's ooooooo only one alternative that's worse?

I've no idea why you think the entire world needs a quasi-Neanderthal superpower making everything the way it wants it to be. We managed just fine without corporate fascist America in the past. I imagine we'll all manage just fine in the future.

Some of us even have our own governing systems and everything. Some of them - GASP - even made them up all by ourselves out of our own brains because we're oh so clever and we can do things like that! YES. WE HAVE POLITICS TOO!

"oooooh, everything's going to go boom"

You watch too much TV, mate. The world wants a roof over its head and a sarnie, not an infinite procession of neurotic, babyish fatalism.

The default human condition is NOT warfare. The default human condition is, largely speaking, pottering about and minding your own business, yes even the super-exciting United States of America.

[Skidmore]

14. For everything that is displaced, something takes its placeo--

fills the vacuum created.

I don't recall doing anything but positing a question about what you see taking the place of what people are attempting to sweep aside now?

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Who are you addressing and what are you talking about?

Who is wanting to blow up the world? Who has a plot? Are you sliding into 80/20 Word Salad territory? I'd hate to see that, but this OP makes no sense to me at all. Is this a 'meta' style OP that is actually about another thread? Is this about the nightmares you have when you eat Welsh Rarebit?
What are you on about?

[mick063]

20. It will be ugly

But history is rich with oppressed people that have overcome long odds.

Odds are typically not on their side, but then again, time has always been an integral part of change.

In other words, it likely won't happen in your lifetime. This is where you determine if you are truly selfless and are concerned about mankind, and his future, as a whole.

If you need to ask, perhaps you are not concerned about our future as a civilization.

[Skidmore]

21. I think your last comment assumes much and

is unfair.

[mick063]

23. Yes. It is unfair.

An unfair world we live in. Growing more unfair with each passing day.

It rubs off on all of us. We adapt to our environment. We all become increasingly unfair.

Perhaps unfair of you to say I wish to blow up the world as well? Or is this figuratively speaking?

With the NSA reading this we must be careful.

[Skidmore]

24. If this NSA thing has the effect claimed by

people, then the alliances that have held in the world for quite some time are possibly destroyed. Perhaps you are being bit too literal with my use of language but I do base the choice on my reading of many comments which appear to me to callbfor scrapping the existing systems and starting anew.

[OilemFirchen]

22. It's an excellent question.

It might be worth noting that the last time the left was so strident, full of egalitarian fantasies and ridden with angst about the government's overreach, they took to the streets en masse. I was an idealistic participant and on reflection am proud to have been a part of a movement which fomented long-term historical change.

The contemporaneous effect, however, was the election of Richard Nixon. It's hard to anticipate if this left-left divide will have similar results, though I sense that some don't care - or, perhaps desire a comparable outcome.

Probably, though, this is an Internet kerfuffle which is all about the amplitude of dissenting voices and nothing about a political shift.

[Recursion]

27. +1000

Very, very well said.

[Romulus Quirinus]

25. 1. I think it can be done peacefully, and must be done peacefully, because

there is no way to stand against the current order on the battlefield. No number of people with rifles can stand down a modern military formation outfitted and trained using modern Western methods and have anything left to celebrate afterwards.

2. I think this is a good starting point:

http://books.google.com/books?id=kz_k9FIcBGcC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false

See the chapters on The Constitution of Mars (incomplete in preview mode) and the chapter of commentary (complete). I highly recommend the Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson for anyone who enjoys hard scifi and wants to see an interesting vision of how to build a better world.

The Constitution in KSR's novels is a modified version of the Swiss Constitution which aims to extend current ideas regarding the prevention of concentration of power. The executive branch is made up of an executive council rather than a singular, unitary executive. Like our system, it also contains a bicameral parliament. One house of parliament is elected and is analogous to our Senate, and the other is chosen via sortition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition) from the general public. This ensures that at least one house of parliament reflects the diversity of the people and makes it harder to buy politicians and keep them bought.

There are two bodies that do the job of our Supreme Court. One handles purely legal disputes, while the other is explicitly an environmental court (important due to the high fragility of the artificially constructed biosphere). Further, it guarantees the right to food and shelter, provides for no standing army, limits weapon ownership (lots of cities still under domes, after all), and contains measures to limit the growth of corporations by enforcing rules that permit them to exist only as Mondragon-style co-ops, in addition to the civil rights we commonly attribute to the Bill of RIghts.

Certainly not perfect, but it is a great improvement on what we've got, IMHO.

[Skidmore]

26. Thanks for your thoughtful comments and for the

link. I haven't read the Mars Trilogy but know my son-in-law also recommended it to me. I just haven't gotten around to getting my hands on a copy yet.

[Romulus Quirinus]

29. Highly recommended! :) It's one of those rare speculative fiction books that has good science

while also having interesting characters that grow and change. The excerpt above comes from a compilation of short stories that came after the main series.

[tridim]

28. The first step is to create a new world government that gets along perfectly from day one.

Participation by all countries is MANDATORY.

This is also the first step in eliminating country to country spying that the Snowbrains think is so simple and trivial.

Good luck!

[dawg]

30. We need a constitutional amendment to severely limit campaign contributions.

Money does not equal free speech, and corporations are not people.

It would take a significant groundswell of grass roots support to get such an amendment passed, but it isn't impossible.

[ZombieHorde]

31. We don't need to blow it up.

We just need to be well represented. I believe people best represent themselves. The 1% doesn't represent the unemployed, the single mom trying to make ends meet, etc. They only represent themselves, yet they are the majority of Congress.

I believe the solution is to fill Congress by lot. Anyone who wants to can choose to register for the lottery and have an equal chance to be selected. Statistically speaking, we will be better represented in the areas of gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, sexual orientation, religious orientation, politics, etc.

Aristotle said "It is accepted as democratic when public offices are allocated by lot; and as oligarchic when they are filled by election." Many of the ancient Athenians believed that elections would always be manipulated by the wealthiest people in a society, which is what we have today.

I think Article 1 Section 4 of the US Constitution would allow for this change on a state by state basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition