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villager

(26,001 posts)
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:48 AM Jul 2013

U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

<snip>

Mr. Pickering was targeted by a longtime surveillance system called mail covers, but that is only a forerunner of a vastly more expansive effort, the Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program, in which Postal Service computers photograph the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States — about 160 billion pieces last year. It is not known how long the government saves the images.

Together, the two programs show that snail mail is subject to the same kind of scrutiny that the National Security Agency has given to telephone calls and e-mail.

The mail covers program, used to monitor Mr. Pickering, is more than a century old but is still considered a powerful tool. At the request of law enforcement officials, postal workers record information from the outside of letters and parcels before they are delivered. (Actually opening the mail requires a warrant.) The information is sent to whatever law enforcement agency asked for it. Tens of thousands of pieces of mail each year undergo this scrutiny.

The Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program was created after the anthrax attacks in late 2001 that killed five people, including two postal workers. Highly secret, it seeped into public view last month when the F.B.I. cited it in its investigation of ricin-laced letters sent to President Obama and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg. It enables the Postal Service to retroactively track mail correspondence at the request of law enforcement. No one disputes that it is sweeping.

“In the past, mail covers were used when you had a reason to suspect someone of a crime,” said Mark D. Rasch, the former director of the Justice Department’s computer crime unit, who worked on several fraud cases using mail covers. “Now it seems to be ‘Let’s record everyone’s mail so in the future we might go back and see who you were communicating with.’ Essentially you’ve added mail covers on millions of Americans.”

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-mail.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement (Original Post) villager Jul 2013 OP
they're even putting gps chips in carrier pigeons markiv Jul 2013 #1
Another stunning vindication of the principle that THINGS YOU TELL A THIRD PARTY AREN'T PRIVATE Recursion Jul 2013 #2
Another stunning rationale for another stunning breach of the 4th Amendment villager Jul 2013 #4
So if the government tells a third party contractor state secrets it isn't private anymore? The Straight Story Jul 2013 #5
They don't need a warrant for whom you mailed. They do for whom you called. Recursion Jul 2013 #6
Are You Questioning the "Two Sets of Rules" We Have in This "Democracy?" villager Jul 2013 #7
NO WONDER things are underfunded. Our government spends so much money on stupid things Brickbat Jul 2013 #3
Amen. All of these data collection systems seem like such little return on what must go into them. NoMoreWarNow Jul 2013 #11
I beginning to think that the government "security appuratus" is slighly on par mentaly with a meth Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #8
There's no question it represents a severe imbalance villager Jul 2013 #9
what...a ...fucking... waste ... of ... money NoMoreWarNow Jul 2013 #10
what's more breathtaking RILib Jul 2013 #12
yeah, every president is deathly scared of touching anything to do with "national security" NoMoreWarNow Jul 2013 #14
And do you think it's likely they found the ricin and asbestos mailers from this? randome Jul 2013 #15
actually, that seems unlikely. The letters were mailed and were taken into evidence when received. NoMoreWarNow Jul 2013 #17
Yawn, the envelope is public information intaglio Jul 2013 #13
Oh, now THAT will help with their budget. EdwardSmith74 Jul 2013 #16
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #18
I wonder what definition of Law Enforcement Agency they use? 1-Old-Man Jul 2013 #19

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
2. Another stunning vindication of the principle that THINGS YOU TELL A THIRD PARTY AREN'T PRIVATE
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:51 AM
Jul 2013

Also, this apparently dates back to the Wilson administration, n'est-ce pas?

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
5. So if the government tells a third party contractor state secrets it isn't private anymore?
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jul 2013

Good to know

And since it is not private, why does the government need a warrant to get that info? I am looking at one now for yahoo - Ohhhhh that's right, they filled out warrants for every US citizen.....

Or did they? Cause there sure did with the one I am looking at. So did google.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
6. They don't need a warrant for whom you mailed. They do for whom you called.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 12:01 PM
Jul 2013

They need the warrant to know whom you called because of a statute passed in 1986, not the Constitution.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
7. Are You Questioning the "Two Sets of Rules" We Have in This "Democracy?"
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 12:03 PM
Jul 2013

Or is it three sets?

Certainly, the 1% have their rules, and we have ours.

Then again, perhaps the military/police apparatus which keeps things "orderly" for those 1%ers is collating information on them too. "Just in case."

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
3. NO WONDER things are underfunded. Our government spends so much money on stupid things
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:52 AM
Jul 2013

there's nothing left for education, national parks, research -- things that benefit humanity.

 

NoMoreWarNow

(1,259 posts)
11. Amen. All of these data collection systems seem like such little return on what must go into them.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 12:21 PM
Jul 2013

all in times of "fiscal discipline".

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
8. I beginning to think that the government "security appuratus" is slighly on par mentaly with a meth
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 12:06 PM
Jul 2013

head. Everything is translated through a prism of paranoid delusion.

Guns, paranoia, secrecy.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
9. There's no question it represents a severe imbalance
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 12:10 PM
Jul 2013

...and an approach to "governing" that ultimately, can't end well.

 

NoMoreWarNow

(1,259 posts)
10. what...a ...fucking... waste ... of ... money
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 12:19 PM
Jul 2013

It's really just breath-taking how digital technology has led to these sort of over-reaching policies.

 

RILib

(862 posts)
12. what's more breathtaking
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jul 2013

is every President in recent times has been okay with this - Obama, Bush, Clinton, no difference.

I'm remembering this in 2016.

 

NoMoreWarNow

(1,259 posts)
14. yeah, every president is deathly scared of touching anything to do with "national security"
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 01:09 PM
Jul 2013

It's really a disgrace... probably really got worse after JFK was killed.

Anyway, the worst thing about this mail thing is the vast majority of mail is junk mass mailings. DO they really photo all that? Or just personal looking things? What about books you buy from Barnes and Noble or Amazon...oy.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
15. And do you think it's likely they found the ricin and asbestos mailers from this?
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 01:15 PM
Jul 2013

I'd say it was a possibility at least, wouldn't you?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

NoMoreWarNow

(1,259 posts)
17. actually, that seems unlikely. The letters were mailed and were taken into evidence when received.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:49 PM
Jul 2013

This system, at best, can detect long, ongoing patterns of mail but mostly seems like they already need a cause to look at someone's mail and see the patterns. I don't see how pictures of the letters helped solve something like the ricin cases, especially since they got the wrong guy initially!

IMO, there is too much reliance on these mass surveillance programs, and old-fashioned detective work is neglected.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
13. Yawn, the envelope is public information
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 01:08 PM
Jul 2013

The USPS like any national postal service logs all mail. Even if all mail was automatically innocent it would still be logged to track the packet through the system and provide extra resources when necessary. See that barcode on your envelope? (you might need UV light) that is put on there by Post Office workers looking at the address on a video screen whilst it is passing through the sorting machines. This allows automated machines to sort your mail further down the line - because they do not read some very well handwriting.

Mail going to wanted criminals or terrorists is closely examined and a warrant is probably obtained for interception and opening. Mail which displays, publicly signs if criminal activity (smell of cocaine, white powder spilling out, oily stains, wires through the packaging) are examined and perhaps reported to law enforcement.

Everything on the outside of the package is public, it has to be otherwise your mail could not be delivered.

Sheesh ...

1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
19. I wonder what definition of Law Enforcement Agency they use?
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:50 PM
Jul 2013

Local community cop? County Sheriff? State Police? FBI? Something akin to the NSA or possibly that Agency itself? How about in times of panic the Military Police, do they count?

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