Ron Paul is anti-war. Many liberal democrats are anti-war

[cali]

they must really be "paul-bots".

Ron Paul is anti-bankster. Many liberal democrats are angered by the Justice Department's "too big to prosecute" rationale.
They too, must really "paul-bots">

Ron Paul Opposes corporatism (except of course he certainly does NOT. This is a guy who wants to knock down all regulations and let corporations run wild). Many liberal democrats are opposed to the corporate influences that are wreaking havoc. Yup, they must be
"paul-bots".

To claim such, is not so much fallacious reasoning as it is a deliberate smear; an attempt to discredit and shame.

It's contemptible and dishonest to try and link liberal democrats with Paul and to pretend that Paul has ownership of what are liberal issues far more than they are libertarian ones.

Fuck all of that.

[kentauros]

1. To paraphrase Lewis Black:

"They've got Libertarian Tourette's!"

I'd link that commentary he did about Beck having "Hitler Tourette's" if I could, just so people understand the context. Look it up on youtube as it's hilarious

[Nanjing to Seoul]

30. A stopped clock is correct twice a day. Libertarians have a couple of good ideas

to counter balance the 10,000 that suck ass!

[ZombieHorde]

2. It is a label-based argument.

Some people seem to find label-based arguments convincing, while many others do not. I think some people confuse the map the with territory.

[dawg]

3. I wonder if Ron Paul likes ice-cream?

I like ice-cream. OMG, I must be a Libertarian!

[Nanjing to Seoul]

31. Ron Paul went to graduate school. I went to graduate school. SHIT, I'm a Paulbot!

[sabrina 1]

4. I'm not worried about Paul, I am worried about all the Republicans Obama has appointed back

into power after we threw them out.

I find it interesting that there is an effort to focus on someone who is no threat to us at all, unless you don't want a Republican spouting off about Wall St as well as Democrats. But hardly a word is said about the growing number of Republicans in this President's cabinet.

I know for a fact that not one Democrat who voted for Obama that I know of, intended to put Republicans back in positions of power. If they had wanted Republicans in power, they could have voted for them.

The apologia for this is astounding when you point it out, but STOP, LOOK OVER THERE. RON PAUL!

I'll look at Paul when a Democratic President appoints him to some cabinet office for which we apparently have NO DEMOCRATS available, or qualified.

[leftstreet]

17. +1

[ProSense]

5. This argument

Ron Paul is anti-war. Many liberal democrats are anti-war

they must really be "paul-bots".

Ron Paul is anti-bankster. Many liberal democrats are angered by the Justice Department's "too big to prosecute" rationale.
They too, must really "paul-bots">

Ron Paul Opposes corporatism (except of course he certainly does NOT. This is a guy who wants to knock down all regulations and let corporations run wild). Many liberal democrats are opposed to the corporate influences that are wreaking havoc. Yup, they must be
"paul-bots".

...makes no sense. Ron Paul is not "anti-war." He's full of shit.

Claiming that he "Opposes corporatism (except of course he certainly does NOT...)," and then comparing him to those who actually are opposed to "corporate influences" by snarkly implying that, "Yup, they must be 'paul-bots'," makes no sense.

[tridim]

7. OP just wanted to post another Ron Paul thread. Mission accomplished I guess. nt

[sabrina 1]

19. How do you feel about all the Republicans, like Wealthy CEO Clapper, who have been appointed

to powerful positions by this Democratic President? I could not be more angry over this. We kicked them out, why is he inviting them back in??

I have never seen a word about this sneaky way of helping Republicans regain power AFTER we Democrats throw them out, from the PaulObsessed. That is just a talking point, btw, paid for by the top 1%. What they really fear is that the American people will join forces to end these policies and that some Republicans, like Paul, will help that to happen just like back when the FFs were able to set aside their differences and join forces for a common goal.

Who do they think they are fooling? I am FAR MORE concerned about the REpublicans Obama has restored to power after we defeated them. Wth, does voting Democratic really mean 'help you local Republican get into a powerful position in Government, VOTE DEMOCRATIC. Seriously, what's going on here? Don't we have Democrats who could fill these positions?

[Jim Lane]

54. The argument about war DOES make sense.

Let me state it a little more precisely for you:

Ron Paul voted against the Iraq War Resolution. Many liberal Democrats voted against the Iraq War Resolution (including Representatives Conyers and Frank, and Senators Kennedy and Wellstone). Those Democrats must really be Paul-bots.

As the OP made clear, Paul's approach to corporatism is mixed. He has made some statements about his concern over corporate power, but he voted against Dodd-Frank and would dismantle a host of statutory and regulatory curbs on corporate abuses. This of course reinforces the OP's point: A particular position must be considered on its merits, rather than merely being supported or denounced based on how various prominent politicians line up.

[tridim]

6. It'd be nice if the "many liberal democrats" on DU would stop posting about Ron Paul every day.

Fuck all of THAT.

[cali]

9. funny you haven't said that to this guy who actually fucking is the one posting

a lot about it. care to explain that? Because it looks just a wee bit hypocritical

http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3152339

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023130636

[tridim]

10. No, I said it to you.

Never even seen that other poster.

[Hydra]

13. Then you must have missed the last few days of "Paul-Botting"

This was the next evolution of the "Racist" accusations...and if you didn't stop it, then you have no standing to tell Cali to quit pushing back on it.

[progressoid]

14. That's not the only one doing it.

Paulbot is the latest poo to be flung at any liberal that disagrees with the party line.

[Fuddnik]

46. I've seen too much of him/her.

[Orsino]

8. Ron Paul is also a liar, dumbass and troll.

So let's not necessarily credit him with believing any particular idea he sells to the rubes for campaign contributions.

[ieoeja]

11. One quibble: "anti-war" has absolutely fuck all to do with "Liberal".

I was Liberal and Hawkish back when Republicans derided the Democratic Party as the "War Party". I believe this had something to do with the simple fact that every war started by this country before the end of Vietnam was initiated by Democrats.

And most of the time, it was under a President from the Liberal wing of the Democratic Party.

In fact, the most common attribute of incompetent generals is that they are "too conservative".


The Cold War made war the status quo. Conservatives support the status quo. They also have this childlike need to fly flags. Toss in a dash of "support the troops" and Nixon taking over the Vietnam War, and you had Conservatives hating anti-war protestors.

Conversely, you had a handful of elected Liberal Democrats who agreed with the anti-war protestors. While virtually all Liberal Democrats supported the anti-war protestors right to protest when Conservatives were trying to shut down the protests.

Far too many people saw that latter support and mistook it for agreement with the protestors. And, of course, Rightists ended up banging the drums that Liberals were anti-war so that we even have people on our side of the aisle who conflate the two.

But the two are definitely distinct. The difference is that Liberals believe that when war is necessary, it should be fought very "liberally". A Liberal President would neve have held our troops back at Tora Bora.

[sibelian]

25. V Interesting post.

Thanks for taking time to compose... food for thought for me in UK

[pnwmom]

12. Snowden was a paul-bot.

And he opposed Social security, which is hardly a progressive thing to do.

[progressoid]

15. I haven't seen any one here call him a progressive.

[leftstreet]

16. Obama wants a chained CPI. Guess he opposes SS, too n/t

[ljm2002]

49. Which has squat to do with the OP...

...but you knew that.

[booley]

18. Hitler ate Sugar

Hitler was evil
therefore anyone who eats sugar is evil.

Seriously what a dumb ass fallacy.

By this token everybody who agree with Ron Paul one shouldn't eat babies is agreeing with Ron Paul about everything else.

And while we get bogged down in personal attacks and fallacious arguments, the POB get away with murder.

[Fuddnik]

20. More abuse of the alert system.

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

These posts are simply to stir the pot of dissent and hatred of Democrats. I've watched this poster become more and more vitriolic with each post.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:53 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The pot of dissent and hatred are stirred by the very people who would alert this thread. They're obnoxious, rude, infantile and full of hatred for anyone who would disagree with a lot of current bad policy. I'm getting sick of them.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No, this is just facts and discussion. You know, the thing you do on a discussion board. It's not against the rules for someone to post something you disagree with LOL!
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: There's nothing wrong with this post at all.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: What an appalling use of the alert system. Cali's entire post is accurate.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Catherina]

23. Those jury results are a thing of beauty n/t

[Metatron]

29. I was juror 5

I was hoping that it would be 6-0 to leave.

Happy 4th of July!

[bobduca]

27. Juror #6 is a coward

disgusting... if you are so pro-censorship then explain why it should be hidden you cowards!

[cali]

28. I think whoever alerted is a coward and I have an idea as

to who that might be.

[Kolesar]

33. 4000 posts and 150 hidden

0.37 %, roughly
Seems like you are "in conflict" with a few of us.

[cali]

36. It has little to do with the substance of what I post

It has to do with two things:

My propensity to be abrasive and that there are people here who dislike me enough to alert on just about everything I post- like this op. and if you get enough people on a jury who don't like a poster, that post gets hidden. I've had quite a few posts hidden that are far less objectionable than posts that don't get hidden.

I'm not complaining. It is what it is and I'm undoubtedly responsible for what I write.

.37 just doesn't seem outrageous to me.

but, as I am wont to say: whatthefuckever.

[Make7]

37. Wouldn't that be 3.75 percent? ( n/t )

[Kolesar]

40. Shoot, you're right, so less were hidden, maybe fifteen ... eom

[baldguy]

21. You don't like being called a Paulbot? Simple solution: stop acting like one.

[cali]

22. I actually don't care what morons call me.

It reflects on them, not me.

It's obvious to anyone with even a few functioning brain cells that I'm not remotely a libertarian or "paulbot" and that calling me such things is simply a desperate ploy; the last refuge of people with little character and even less intelligence.

[baldguy]

32. Anyone with even a few functioning brain cells would realize that Ron Paul isn't remotely anti-war.

Anyone with even a few functioning brain cells would realize that Ron Paul isn't remotely anti-bankster.

Trying to claim that he supports any liberal/progressive position on anything, or that "he's on our side; really, he is", is not only a disingenuous lie. It's precisely the type of thing a Paulbot does.

That goes for promoting Ron Paul's followers too.

[cali]

38. well that made no sense.

I've never claimed for one second that he's on our side. I've written quite a few posts blasting him and his supporters.

And sorry, but Paul is for getting rid of virtually all regulations- be they environmental, banking, etc. He's for unfettered capitalism.

I am strongly pro regulation, hardly the position of a "paul-bot", honey. I'm not for less government, I'm for better gov't. I'm pretty much the opposite of a libertarian.

You're confused, to put it kindly.

[Pholus]

47. Remember this is the guy who was lecturing us on "Godwin" just yesterday or so.

Can we name a variant for someone who tries to connect every little thing that offends his poor widdle eyes with Ron Paul?

[cali]

26. and this piece of ---- post is exactly why I posted the op.

[baldguy]

43. Methinks the poster doth protest ... too much.

[Hooray for Pepe]

35. So should I support every war Ron Paul opposes?

?

[baldguy]

39. Ron Paul opposes wars where there's no profit to be made.

Why should anyone give a fuck what Ron Paul thinks on **ANY** subject? His ideas are generated by a destructive & murderous political philosophy. They should be automatically subject to suspicion by "anyone with even a few functioning brain cells", as anyone who promotes those ideas should also be.

[cali]

42. and no one here is doing that. you accuse me of doing that.

I defy you to find one post of mine ever that supports him or his ideas in any way at all.

[baldguy]

44. Really? I guess you've missed all the "Ed Snowden Is God" posts the last few weeks?

[cali]

45. I haven't posted them. In fact, I've made clear that I don't

care if he's the devil's spawn or a hero. that's the title of an op I posted. And let me be clear: I don't see him as a hero. I don't think he's acquitted himself terribly well. I do think that it's a good thing that we're having this national conversation on mass surveillance and I have said that I don't want to see him returned to the U.S. because I think there's a good chance that he'll be mistreated as Manning was.

But just how is thinking Snowden is a hero a libertarian position? How does that make one a "paul bot". Clue: It doesn't. Someone can think that Snowden is the greatest thing since sliced bread and be a liberal democrat or a repuke or a libertarian or a communist or socialist or whatever.

Critical thinking: try it sometime.
Gigantic fail on your part trying to prove I'm some "paulbot". Continue with your ever so lame attempts.

[ljm2002]

53. Please provide ONE link...

...to a post on DU claiming "Ed Snowden Is God". Just one.

[ljm2002]

52. Perfect response!

Way to go! You just embodied the very thing Cali was pointing out: content-free accusations, impugning the motives of other DUers, accusing them of being "Paulbots" without any corroborating information. Oh I suppose in your tiny little brain, the fact that Cali mentioned Ron Paul in a post gives you whatever opening you need to call her a Paulbot.

L.A.M.E.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Some quotes from Martin Luther King Jr on war and peace

Through our scientific and technological genius, we have made of this world a neighborhood and yet we have not had the ethical commitment to make of it a brotherhood. But somehow, and in some way, we have got to do this. We must all learn to live together as brothers or we will all perish together as fools. We are tied together in the single garment of destiny, caught in an inescapable network of mutuality. And whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. For some strange reason I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. And you can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the way God’s universe is made; this is the way it is structured.

John Donne caught it years ago and placed it in graphic terms: "No man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main." And he goes on toward the end to say, "Any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind; therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." We must see this, believe this, and live by it if we are to remain awake through a great revolution.

--Martin Luther King, Jr., Remaining Awake Through A Great Revolution
http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index.php/resources/article/king_quotes_on_war_and_peace/

[MineralMan]

34. Most thinking people are anti-war.

I think I've only met a few people in my life who were seriously pro-war. War sucks.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Pro war folks say they favor strong defense or 'security' they don't say they

are 'pro war' just like anti gay people don't say 'anti gay' they say 'pro family' or 'pragmatically concerned with slow paced change' or 'he has to wait until the second term'. Anti choice people say they are 'pro life' not 'anti choice'. They do not say 'I oppose women's rights' they say 'I support the rights of babies'.
Of course you know that.

[ljm2002]

48. "To claim such, is not so much fallacious reasoning"...

..."as it is a deliberate smear".

Hear, hear. I am so tired of the relentless drone on DU calling so many of us Obama-haters, Paul-bots, and the like. It is certainly calculated, otherwise it would not be done so methodically by a particular cadre here.

It's kind of like the Republicans in Congress, come to think of it. No matter what Obama does or does not do, they will obstruct him. They'll do it because they can, and they'll do it because they enjoy it. Our cadre here will simply spout the day's talking points, and when errors are pointed out they'll just shout louder, or provide links to nowhere, or anything but own up to their own mistakes. And they are very, very consistent in impugning the motives of fellow DUers. They have zero sense of decency in this regard.

Thanks for your OP.

[bluedigger]

50. Ron Paul is an Isolationist.

That is not the same as being "antiwar". Not by a long shot.

[Whisp]

51. Fuck all of that, and FUCK RON PAUL. n/t