General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs the NSA spying hurting you or affecting how you live your daily life?
No, it's not ideal, fair, transparent (whatever), but has it changed the way you live each day?
If so, how and why?
Are you skulking around in a trenchcoat and having to duck behind trees so "the government" cant see you? Or are you have to use encrypted emails and speak in code during calls to the wife about having to stop on your way home at the market for a loaf of bread and gallon of milk?
If you have had to change your activities based on this "news" that the spy agencies are spying on you, guess what, it isn't new, we've known about it for more than 10 years, and your life had not been ruined between then and now (now that you just know they are looking at you). For 99.99999% of us, the government does not give a hot god damn about your phone calls or emails.
So please chill the fuck out, Obama is not Hitler. Go to the store, get some meat and a few cases of beer, and grill out tomorrow and relax.
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Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)live
in
a
zoo
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)then swing by the penguin hut for some shits and giggles
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)they smell like manure and people and cotton candy
dkf
(37,305 posts)To protect us.
Faith is gone. Trust is gone. That is a big deal.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)How have you been able to exist since the Patriot Act?
If you've survived the last ten years, you'll survive the next twenty.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Just wondering.
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)
Auggie
(31,177 posts)No telling who will be in control
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Auggie
(31,177 posts)not only will they control most the wealth but most the information too. And they won't give a shit about your well-being or your liberties or your barbecues.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)The OP just like things this post seems to want to protect seems to want to tell me to go fuck myself rather than ask questions.
Welcome to the idea of free speech 
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)But it doesn't mean it's ok or that this administration isn't worse than Chimpy's on this account.
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)Nobody really cares what they are doing. But they just cannot accept this.
Someone must be spying on them, right?
dkf
(37,305 posts)Other countries, their leaders, their judges...
One world rule by those with all the dirt. Sick.
No trust in individual judgment about what is right or wrong, only coercement and arm twisting and threats.
aquart
(69,014 posts)When did the feds come for you? Daylight? Midnight? March? December but you first mistook them for Santa and his 8 tiny reindeer?
dkf
(37,305 posts)But who knows how their spying is affecting others and their votes or their rulings.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Now there's a job for life.
dkf
(37,305 posts)They are using these methods in Iraq and Afghanistan to predict who will perpetrate and where attacks will happen. From those experiments they discovered that the more data they used the better the predictive quality. Algos and data mining are the new pre crime detectors.
If they kill you before you commit a crime, you can never prove you didn't do it.
But this was a movie with Tom Cruise. I need a bit more than Hollywood.
How many Americans have been arrested or killed with these processes?
dkf
(37,305 posts)Lack of food, serious natural disasters... These are the types of scenarios they are preparing for.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Thanks for admitting it.
There is no algorithm on earth that could have predicted which fruit seller would set himself on fire and cause a revolution.
You have way too much faith in math.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Just last month, unilateral changes to US military laws formally granted the Pentagon extraordinary powers to intervene in a domestic "emergency" or "civil disturbance":
"Federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances."
Other documents show that the "extraordinary emergencies" the Pentagon is worried about include a range of environmental and related disasters.
In 2006, the US National Security Strategy warned that:
"Environmental destruction, whether caused by human behavior or cataclysmic mega-disasters such as floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, or tsunamis. Problems of this scope may overwhelm the capacity of local authorities to respond, and may even overtax national militaries, requiring a larger international response."
Two years later, the Department of Defense's (DoD) Army Modernisation Strategy described the arrival of a new "era of persistent conflict" due to competition for "depleting natural resources and overseas markets" fuelling "future resource wars over water, food and energy." The report predicted a resurgence of:
"... anti-government and radical ideologies that potentially threaten government stability."
In the same year, a report by the US Army's Strategic Studies Institute warned that a series of domestic crises could provoke large-scale civil unrest. The path to "disruptive domestic shock" could include traditional threats such as deployment of WMDs, alongside "catastrophic natural and human disasters" or "pervasive public health emergencies" coinciding with "unforeseen economic collapse." Such crises could lead to "loss of functioning political and legal order" leading to "purposeful domestic resistance or insurgency...
"DoD might be forced by circumstances to put its broad resources at the disposal of civil authorities to contain and reverse violent threats to domestic tranquility. Under the most extreme circumstances, this might include use of military force against hostile groups inside the United States. Further, DoD would be, by necessity, an essential enabling hub for the continuity of political authority in a multi-state or nationwide civil conflict or disturbance."
---
Now I still wonder why this would be necessary, but it seems this is what the Government is prepared for.
"At the disposal of civil authorities."
This is the meteor-wipes-out-government emergency scenario.
It is also a response to a second civil war. In the first our armies were noticeably deployed against our erstwhile citizens.
You and the DOD have all been listening to too much Alec Jones.
However, if global warming causes a tsunami that takes out our east coast and we have trouble absorbing the millions of refugees...you might end up being very glad of this kind of doomsday planning.
dkf
(37,305 posts)
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)While your offering is silly on its face, the fact is that there are many things that you may not think effects your daily life, but they do.
In this case there is a large body of work that deals with effects of such surveillance as it regards self-censorship. Not only among average Americans, but in the realm of journalism.
http://kabelmast.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/security-begets-self-censorship-and-the-stasi-on-the-nsa-plus-inverse-eschatology/
http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/06/if-you-live-surveillance-state-long-enough-you-create-censor-your-head
Oh, and by the way, I am not going to chill the fuck out about it.
cheers!
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)aquart
(69,014 posts)That journalism has ALWAYS had these influences to fight?
railsback
(1,881 posts)Hope they're getting off on it.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)That said, I don't like it one bit, and I do not think it's acceptable, and I resent it.
Apophis
(1,407 posts)So, to answer your question, no.
But I don't support or condone the NSA spying on US citizens.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)Just because the current administration may not abuse its power it doesn't mean others won't. Most of us aren't important people but what if high profile congressman are wiretapped? Judges? Activists? Business competition? Journalists? Having access to all their communications is not something that should be allowed. It fosters corruption, allows these individuals to be blackmailed and bribed and protects the status quo and those in power to the point where they are above the law.
I don't see how anyone can defend this. The amount of shortsightedness in the OP is staggering.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)According to Russel Tice all nine members of the SCOTUS are listened to, as well as members of congress and senators, including one Barack Obama.
So not an if.
randome
(34,845 posts)Tice did some good in the past. Now he's gone off the deep end. Funny how all these conspiracy theories never seem to have evidence to support them.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Unreal.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Breaking the law, and that they are causing the suppression of first amendment rights of other whistle blowers for fear of harassment and the loss of their freedom.
It is also causing stress wondering if they make a mistake that causes them to harm myself or a loved one.
And more stress wondering what other parts of the constitution will they or are gonna nullify next.
How much money are they wasting.
What kind of damage are they doing to brand America abroad.
Enduring insults and racial slurs online when trying to point out the great harm this causing.
Explaining repeatedly to a bunch of rocks that just because they don't fucking care about their rights doesn't give them the right to trample on other who do give a fuck.
So YOU chill the fuck out, and let the adults talk.
Thank you.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)So I laugh at the gnashing of teeth and cries that the sky is falling. It's been this way since before 1996, it was legalized in 2001 in the Patty Act and other filings.
That some people claim to have just found out last week that our spy agencies spy on everyone is hilarious.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Where else have I heard that from before?
Those who ignore history...you know the rest.
aquart
(69,014 posts)
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)But this changes the picture considerably. It's not about how much it affects one of us individually, it's about how the surveiling of all of us affects what kind of government we are all living under. This means we are living under totalitarianism, and no, that it not okay, and yes it affects each one of us.
If you think that's hyperbole, we are living without the 4th Amendment, which means we don't have squat to protect us from a government which is 100% solidified around the top elites. There is nothing we do that it doesn't know about and isn't tracking, so maybe you can tell me how we can resist that puppy, if we have to. Bolivia's president saw the illusion of gloves come off, and at any time we could too. What could stop it, once it's moving now? Really?
This attitude of 'it isn't bothering me, so I don't care' is how we got to this awful place.
For those so inclined, a good way to spend this 4th of July is right here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023157063
noamnety
(20,234 posts)Abortion laws - kind of not my problem, I'm past the childbearing stage of my life.
Marriage Equality - I'm already married. It doesn't affect me personally if some third party can't get married.
Health care - I've got federal blue cross blue shield.
Food stamp cuts - doesn't affect me.
etc.
I am not sure if your point is that the test of right vs. wrong, or the test of what we should be outraged about, is whether a thing affects our personal lives. I don't find that to be a standard that works with my sense of morality.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Thanks. As Niebuhr said.....
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)would have had to elicit an honest reply of "no" to your question from most US citizens back then.
Therefore, on consideration, I feel that your standard of judgment here is flawed.
Just my opinion, but I am asking you politely to think about the implications of what you asking.
It is not whether it hurts ME, but whether it may hurt some innocent person. My answer to that is yes, it may. Indeed, I believe it will. In fact, I suspect it has.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)
Demit
(11,238 posts)So, if we're not showing any symptoms right now, that means there's nothing wrong with us. In fact, by your logic, we don't have to do anything at all about staving off disease or illness, because if we're not sick now, that means we never will be!
What you're missing in this is that the very knowledge we are being spied upon WILL change how we act in our everyday lives. We'll be careful what we say, wondering if it can be misconstrued. Much easier that way, wouldn't want to rock the boat, draw any suspicion.
Regarding your putting the word news in scare quotes: As the comment I read on a blog said—comparing it to a wife who only suspected her husband of cheating, who then sees the photos the private investigator pushes across the desk, of him banging the babysitter—"knowing" that something is true is very different from having the certain, indisputable knowledge right there in front of you.
dawg
(10,624 posts)In a future administration, when a key vote switches sides in the Senate, or, gasp, the Supreme Court, you'll never know what personal data the vote switcher was threatened with. You'll just know that a key vote defected and the corporate agenda won yet again.
The question is not, "Would Obama use this information?". The question is, "Would Nixon?".
Because we'll eventually get another Nixon. And this time, he'll have more tools.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)I don't think Obama would personally approve of using this information to blackmail someone, but he won't always be President. Besides, officials even in Obama's administration could use this information in inappropriate ways without him even being aware it was going on.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And given Obama was a target in 2004 according to Tice...I am willing to bet it's approved.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)the minding the state to others.
"Idiot"
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Cheers!
panader0
(25,816 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)No, this is not a repeat from 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 or 2008.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)So, I guess I wasted my time marching for civil rights.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)"NSA douchebags spying on Americans" and "NSA shit stains" several times a day just to see if anybody is watching. For any other searches, I've started using duckduckgo.com.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)tsuki
(11,994 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)anyone who doesn't see that is part of the problem
Historic NY
(37,452 posts)and the callers who violate the "Do Not Call Registery"...that would greatly affect my life. 
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)OFA and the DNC.
My guess is that this would happen some time but not in my life time.
I am less and less interested in politics.
You don't know what the hell is going on or what the information is used for. You wouldn't know shit if someone didn't blow the whistle.
Your one of the lemmings watch your step
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)Would be part of that evil 1% people are always talking about.
napoleon_in_rags
(3,991 posts)That's the issue with the secrecy that's taking over the world. If extraordinary powers we don't know about are being taken, its impossible to say what's behind things. For instance, the other night my laptop went down. The vast odds are it was just tech sh*t happening, but when we don't know what the govt. does, its reasonable to wonder what things in our lives they (or some other agency) are behind. If my friend didn't get that one email for a two days, was it because the servers had an error, or because the man suspected something, and decided to hold it? Things like that.
You'd never be able to say with certainty what ANY clandestine force is doing to damage you, because they are clandestine. That goes for any clandestine force, govt. or not, good or bad in intent. So a thread which asks people what they've seen unseen forces do in their lives really doesn't reveal much as you might hope.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2013, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)
I also fear protesting so that I don't have a police record. I'm also getting off Facebook before I go to college. I'm also considering going all cash. I also whisper about ripping out someone eyeballs out if I'm mad about some oil companies instead of shouting it proudly. I try not to mention that I'm a socialist too. I also put all my laptop info into a thumb drive in case it gets confiscated. I started a diary so that I can actually have private thoughts written out. I also updated and put individual complex passwords to every website I log into. I've considered getting off forums (DU) altogether too.
When the patriot act, etc. Was made, I was teenager. 10 years later might roll your eyes, but this fury and outrage woke up the 20 something's to it again, the next generation. I also don't think Obama is Hitler, and caution isn't paranoia considering everything else we all learn on DU.
Tikki
(14,559 posts)about you and me and that is never going to change.
Tikki
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)are your privilege. That's not the way it works in the USA.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Spying on The Associated Press
"The Obama administration, which has a chilling zeal for investigating leaks and prosecuting leakers, has failed to offer a credible justification for secretly combing through the phone records of reporters and editors at The Associated Press in what looks like a fishing expedition for sources and an effort to frighten off whistle-blowers."
WHO HAS FORGOTTEN THAT THE SURVEILLANCE STATE WAS CREATED BY AND CONTINUES TO BENEFIT GEORGE W BUSH AND FAMILY. FUCK THE SURVEILLANCE STATE.
Apologists who ignore the death of the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments of the Constitution of the United States of America under Bush family initiatives make me apoplectic. THINK WHAT YOU'RE CONDONING! EVERYTHING IS NOT OKAY!