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kentuck

(111,106 posts)
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:06 PM Jul 2013

Do we have a right to expect any privacy in today's world?

In my opinion, we absolutely do.

Simply because technology has advanced to the degree that it has, with Internet, Facebook, email, cell phones, etc, does not in any way take away any person's right to privacy.

We did not give up our 2nd Amendment right to bear arms simply because guns became far more advanced than our founders ever imagined. Neither should we give up our 4th Amendment rights because technology has become advanced to the point that it makes it easy for the government or other individuals to spy on us or to invade our privacy.

It is not just our responsibility to protect our privacy. It is the responsibility of others not to invade our privacy. Just as you cannot put secret cameras in a hotel room to peep on customers, you cannot listen to others' phone calls or read their emails, or sell their information without their permission. Simply because technology allows you to do it does not make it legal or right.

It is absolutely wrong to say that you no longer have a right to privacy. You have just as much a right to privacy today as you did before the newest technology became available. Those that would use this technology for such purposes should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They have no right to collect information that is personal to you. Technology does not change that one iota.

My hope is that someday we will see this tried before the Supreme Court.

72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do we have a right to expect any privacy in today's world? (Original Post) kentuck Jul 2013 OP
Not when there's a Democrat in office n/t leftstreet Jul 2013 #1
It doesn't really matter which party is in the White House. ... spin Jul 2013 #6
Do we have the right to? Yes. NaturalHigh Jul 2013 #2
Just because you can... kentuck Jul 2013 #3
I agree with you... NaturalHigh Jul 2013 #4
I agree with you... kentuck Jul 2013 #5
We can have as much privacy as we want by way of the law 1-Old-Man Jul 2013 #7
It is ever so much easier to Skidmore Jul 2013 #9
But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried... kentuck Jul 2013 #13
Absolutely. What I advocate all the time is that Skidmore Jul 2013 #19
We will probably need to get a different Congress? kentuck Jul 2013 #20
2014 is a good time to start. Skidmore Jul 2013 #21
You sound like you might should run yourself. kentuck Jul 2013 #24
Yes, but... Jessy169 Jul 2013 #8
With that premise... kentuck Jul 2013 #16
Yes -- quite the conundrum Jessy169 Jul 2013 #25
Why do "they" hate us?? kentuck Jul 2013 #27
And let's not forget that The Constitution does not grant rights, it merely acknowledges that they Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #10
The technology to protect privacy has been freely available for decades and people can't be bothered Recursion Jul 2013 #11
not according to some du-ers. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #12
Apparently, not really, according to past SCOTUS decisions frazzled Jul 2013 #14
Yes, though some people seem not to understand what it is treestar Jul 2013 #15
I'm saying unconstitutional. kentuck Jul 2013 #18
That is true treestar Jul 2013 #23
When you sign on to any website, you agree to give up a certain amount of privacy. kentuck Jul 2013 #26
Yes. LWolf Jul 2013 #17
The very, very least they could do is write a law... kentuck Jul 2013 #22
Agreed. LWolf Jul 2013 #30
Privacy is inherently limited... gulliver Jul 2013 #28
Then why are we appearing so desperate to capture him? kentuck Jul 2013 #29
I agree it is not a trivial matter. gulliver Jul 2013 #31
You nailed it Jessy169 Jul 2013 #32
Just curious... kentuck Jul 2013 #33
No Jessy169 Jul 2013 #39
The NSA and other covert agencies have given us ample evidence of sinister motivation DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2013 #45
"someday we will see this tried before the Supreme Court" BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #34
Not this Supreme Court, maybe a future one that understands its duty is to interpret the Cleita Jul 2013 #35
ALL I know is, walking downtown in my town and at Happy Hour UTUSN Jul 2013 #36
I think there is a distinction... kentuck Jul 2013 #37
nope thatz not the answer. i dont no where cameras are UTUSN Jul 2013 #38
Then, how do you know they are "everywhere"?? kentuck Jul 2013 #40
My assumptions, not knowledge. (Let's call this off.) n/t UTUSN Jul 2013 #42
Probably not, sadly demunderground1985la Jul 2013 #41
U Are Right uppityperson Jul 2013 #43
Welcome demunderground1985la! kentuck Jul 2013 #44
Oh, I am sure you will. uppityperson Jul 2013 #72
Hello ~ demunderground1985la In_The_Wind Jul 2013 #46
I'll let you know after I'm done kicking the shit out of the pervert holding the camera Zorra Jul 2013 #47
If everybody gets rained on, why should we build shelters? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #48
Thank You - Well Said cantbeserious Jul 2013 #49
Is this about phone metadata? randome Jul 2013 #50
Yes, that would include "metadata"... kentuck Jul 2013 #55
COULD doesn't mean they ARE. randome Jul 2013 #58
We have a RIGHT to expect whatever, elleng Jul 2013 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author KoKo Jul 2013 #53
How would it apply? elleng Jul 2013 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author KoKo Jul 2013 #57
Apologize Elleng...read your post quickly with break from 4th Family.. KoKo Jul 2013 #59
OK. elleng Jul 2013 #61
Truly sorry about that and a K&R to your post...! KoKo Jul 2013 #62
OH, definitely tizzy-prone! elleng Jul 2013 #65
Not meaning to sound mawkish but...you are! randome Jul 2013 #67
Thanks SO MUCH, randome! elleng Jul 2013 #68
Sometimes what we wish for isn't quite what we get, though.... KoKo Jul 2013 #70
Quite right, KoKo. elleng Jul 2013 #71
I buy charmin with aloe and Pepsi Max(zero calories).And post on an international poltiical board. graham4anything Jul 2013 #52
"Anyone who had a phone like the one in Andy Griffith knew everyone was listening".. kentuck Jul 2013 #60
everyone knows everyone's business in NYC back then. graham4anything Jul 2013 #64
Here is a song just for you... kentuck Jul 2013 #66
I think Scott McNealy said it best in 1999, when he was CEO of Sun Microsystems jrandom421 Jul 2013 #56
But if there was a law protecting citizens... kentuck Jul 2013 #63
In A Real Sense the Late Robert Heinlein Wolf Frankula Jul 2013 #69

spin

(17,493 posts)
6. It doesn't really matter which party is in the White House. ...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:44 PM
Jul 2013

The War on Terror will be used as an excuse to implement Big Brother and to preserve power for the rich and privileged.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
3. Just because you can...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:17 PM
Jul 2013

...does not make it legal or right. Our privacy is still protected by the Bill of Rights and the laws of our Constitution. No modern invention of technology changes that fact.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
4. I agree with you...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:19 PM
Jul 2013

but it's been a long time since I felt that the government cared about our rights.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
5. I agree with you...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:25 PM
Jul 2013

We must understand that government uses technology for different reasons than do businesses or individuals. We have a responsibility to watch them at every step.

1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
7. We can have as much privacy as we want by way of the law
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:49 PM
Jul 2013

Seriously, all it would take is well written law to stop the sharing of personal information and then strong enforcement to include extremely heavy fines and jail time.

Privacy would become the norm overnight.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
9. It is ever so much easier to
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:56 PM
Jul 2013

rail at the heavens than to actually push Congress to write such laws or to replace reps with those who would do the heavy lifting.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
19. Absolutely. What I advocate all the time is that
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:45 PM
Jul 2013

Congress needs to be forced to do its job. First it needs to reclaim its war powers. Then it needs to address the Patriot Act and FISA provisions with sincerity of purpose and either repeal or revise them. I'd also like them to enshrine in law that a corporation is not a person.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
20. We will probably need to get a different Congress?
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:48 PM
Jul 2013

in order for something like that to happen? I agree with you 100%. (on this post)

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
21. 2014 is a good time to start.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:51 PM
Jul 2013

Sitting around complaining because we have been shackled by the laws cranked out of that ineffectual body over the past decade and a half is not productive. Change Congress and change in the state houses too. I refuse to be dragged into Libertarian hell because I was too busy watching the sideshow while the tent was being loaded up on the train.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
24. You sound like you might should run yourself.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:58 PM
Jul 2013


Just go to the next Democratic Party meeting and bring up new blood in Congress and the necessity.

Jessy169

(602 posts)
8. Yes, but...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:52 PM
Jul 2013

The cell phone call that you make and expect to remain private travels through public airspace on public airwaves. In order to keep that cell phone call absolutely private and insulated from interception by intrusive or snooping entities, we must enlist an army of technical experts to encrypt and decrypt that message and we must pay the technical experts a lot of extra money to keep that cell phone call private.

Same thing with internet usage. The data travels over private networks and is stored at least temporarily in corporate owned computers. To keep all that data private, we must enlist an army of expert computer software engineers who toil daily and at great cost to maintain some level of privacy and hack-proof technological capability -- I know, because I'm one of those software engineers.

Our "privacy" in the modern age, if it exists at all in reality, is only maintained at huge expense and by increasingly sophisticated technology that can never be guaranteed 100% against compromise.

Back in the constitutional framers' day, the right to privacy more or less just encompassed what went on inside your home. These days, guaranteeing the right to privacy is a technological challenge, not just a simple granting of an indelible human right.

Another way to look at it: Take the analogy of a nation's network of roads. We discover that heinous criminals are using that road network to transport lethal materials, to meet with other coherts in crime, to plan, to organize -- all with the intent of inflicting mass death and chaos. Should the police monitor the road network, maybe set up a few cameras, try to keep track of what is going on in order to prevent loss of life and property? Yeah, probably. But what about your right to privately travel from point A to point B without being monitored??!

It is way more complicated than JUST YOUR right to absolute privacy.

Just another point of view.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
16. With that premise...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:36 PM
Jul 2013

...we end up where we are today.

"In order to keep that cell phone call absolutely private and insulated from interception by intrusive or snooping entities, we must enlist an army of technical experts to encrypt and decrypt that message and we must pay the technical experts a lot of extra money to keep that cell phone call private."

And that means "technical experts" invade our privacy more than anyone else, in the name of doing their jobs. They are the "snooping entities".

Jessy169

(602 posts)
25. Yes -- quite the conundrum
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 06:01 PM
Jul 2013

If humanity survives long enough, future historians may look back on this time and label it the "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" era.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
10. And let's not forget that The Constitution does not grant rights, it merely acknowledges that they
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:22 PM
Jul 2013

exist and are universal.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
11. The technology to protect privacy has been freely available for decades and people can't be bothered
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:25 PM
Jul 2013

I have to question how badly people actually want privacy when they don't seem to be willing to put up with the minimal hassle required to simply secure it for themselves.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
14. Apparently, not really, according to past SCOTUS decisions
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:32 PM
Jul 2013

At least not in the case of call logs or email logs being collected as metadata. Here's the explanation of the relevant court cases:

In the modern world, the Court held, a bugging device on the outside of a telephone booth or a wiretap on a telephone constitutes a “search,” even though they involve no physical intrusion into a constitutionally protected place, because they violate our “reasonable expectations of privacy.”

But Katz immediately gave rise to the question: What is a “reasonable expectation of privacy”? Suppose X has a conversation at a dinner party at which he reveals certain information about himself to the other guests. Thereafter, the government subpoenas one of the guests and compels her to testify about what X told her at the party. Is this a “search” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment?

In a series of decisions in the years after Katz, the Supreme Court said “no.” As the Court observed in Katz, “what a person knowingly exposes to the public is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection.” Thus, as a general matter, one has no “reasonable expectation of privacy” when one reveals information to third parties. Because those individuals are free to tell others what they were told, the speaker has no “reasonable expectation” that such conversations are “private.”

In United States v. Miller, decided in 1976, the Supreme Court considered the following question: Is it a “search” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment for the government to subpoena information from a bank about a depositor’s financial transactions? Surely, one’s financial transactions are “private,” right? The Court said “no.”

Because the depositor had “voluntarily conveyed” his financial information to the bank and its employees,” who were complete strangers to the depositor, the depositor assumed the risk “that the information would be conveyed by the bank to the government.” Hence, the Court held, the depositor had no “reasonable expectation of privacy” in the information and there was therefore no “search” of the depositor when the government obtained the information from the bank.

Three years later, in Smith v. Maryland, the Court extended this logic to a pen register, a device that collects all the numbers called from a particular phone. Without probable cause or a warrant, the police, who suspected Smith of a crime, installed a pen register on Smith’s calls at his telephone company. The Supreme Court held that this was not a “search” for purposes of the Fourth Amendment, because people know that the phone company keeps records of their phone calls, “a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over the third parties,” and Smith voluntarily “assumed the risk that the company would reveal to police the numbers he dialed.”

It is on the basis of this line of decisions that commentators have correctly stated that, under existing law, the government’s program of collecting phone-call data from phone companies does not violate the Fourth Amendment.

This is not to say, of course, that the Supreme Court decisions are “correct.” In his dissenting opinion in Miller, for example, Justice William J. Brennan, Jr. objected that an individual should be held to retain a “reasonable expectation of privacy” in the financial records he discloses to his bank, because such disclosures are “not entirely volitional in circumstances in which “it is impossible to participate in the economic life of contemporary society without maintaining a bank account” and because, in the course of his financial transactions with his bank, a depositor inevitably “reveals many aspects of his personal affairs, opinions, habits and associations.”

But even if Miller and Smith are correct in terms of the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, the mere fact that government can constitutionally exercise its authority in this manner does not mean that it should do so. That something is constitutionally permissible does not make it sound public policy.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/01/why-bush-violated-the-fourth-amendment-and-obama-has-not.html


Please note what the author (a law professor) says at the end. The Court may not have been right in these decisions; and even if it were, it doesn't necessarily mean that the government should proceed on this basis as a matter of policy, even if it has been deemed "constitutional."



treestar

(82,383 posts)
15. Yes, though some people seem not to understand what it is
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:33 PM
Jul 2013

In today's world, little goes on only in the house behind closed doors.

There are people out there who think they can't be photographed in public, or that their land ownership is private. Due to the fears of ID theft, public records have been restricted. Notice there's no outrage about that, just exotic stuff like NSA records.

Births, deaths, marriages (mostly) and divorces and probated estates are public acts. So is land ownership, corporate directorships and some other stuff.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
18. I'm saying unconstitutional.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:39 PM
Jul 2013

Our laws about privacy did not change simply because more technology was invented. Technology does not supersede our Constitutional rights. Even the cookie that is on this computer should be written into the law that it is illegal to store on your files without permission of the user. That's all I'm saying.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
23. That is true
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:54 PM
Jul 2013

though the technology may also be expanding the public space, whereas people think it should be private. Facebook may be like a public square. You can't hear everyone outside, but you are out there talking too.



kentuck

(111,106 posts)
26. When you sign on to any website, you agree to give up a certain amount of privacy.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 06:12 PM
Jul 2013

But not all.

Facebook is the perfect example. You have agreed to share information with people you know or friends of people you know. You agree to that when you sign on. However, Facebook should have no right to sell your information - that is your private information. Neither should they be able to sell their customers names to other businesses. That is still your property. You have only agreed to share it with a limited number of people. No one else has a right to steal your property or your information.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
17. Yes.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:39 PM
Jul 2013

Personally, I view privacy as a natural right. It's also a legal right, but the legal right is too limited.

I value my privacy very highly, and think that my legal right should be much, much broader.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
22. The very, very least they could do is write a law...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:54 PM
Jul 2013

making illegal to retain any means of communication without the understood consent of the person whose privacy is being viewed or listened to. Just make it illegal. There is no 100% enforcement on very few laws. But that does not keep us from writing the law.

gulliver

(13,186 posts)
28. Privacy is inherently limited...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 06:56 PM
Jul 2013

...as are all rights. It has to be that way, because rights affect other rights.

I think the government is representative of the people's will in determining the limits and of government knowledge about citizens. That's about the best we can hope for, and it's pretty good. Witness the yawn with which Snowden's few revelations have met. Snowden pointed out that the government had the privacy dial set on about six at the NSA, and most people just said, "Yeah, maybe six is ok. Wouldn't really want it to be seven or five."

Then the conversation turned to the curiosity of Snowden and Greenwald...the guy that immolated himself to say something relatively uninteresting and the guy who gave him the gas and the match.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
29. Then why are we appearing so desperate to capture him?
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 07:04 PM
Jul 2013

Planes forced to land in other countries to be searched for the culprit that spilled the beans on the government?

Other government leaders, especially EU and almost all of South America, have spoken out against our countries actions.

They don't see the "privacy dial" set at "six" - they see it set at about nine and a half...

At this time in the story line, I would agree that many folks have not yet given serious thought to the privacy issue and are not very concerned about it.

It is no trivial matter.

gulliver

(13,186 posts)
31. I agree it is not a trivial matter.
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 08:23 PM
Jul 2013

The deal with Snowden is that he tried and seriously failed to push a serious matter using non-serious means and non-serious material. He misjudged the value of his information, the interest and knowledge levels of the American people, and the character of Glenn Greenwald.

Sure, the United States government is desperate to capture him. He may have more information that the American people would not want to see broadcast to the world. Snowden also deliberately challenged the country's laws. He picked the fight, and the government can't walk away from it or even give that appearance. They have to make the law real.

Government, including the NSA, is going to be a leading protector of privacy going forward. In the same way that police patrols keep people from peeping into your bedroom window, the government will be able to patrol for cyber criminals trying to steal identities and money. Relative to other players, the government makes extremely strict use of information and only under highly authorized, audited conditions. Moreover, government workers (mostly good people, let's not forget) don't wake up in the morning thinking they want to invade someone's privacy for fun or malice.

I don't think government workers, for example, are going to use phone call metadata to track down a weed dealer's buyers or even Republican Senator David Vitter's favorite prostitute. The American people don't want to know that stuff, because the American people all have dirt (or their kids do, etc.). I do think the government will use the metadata to go after terrorists and others who want to damage American interests. I do think the government will go after cyber criminals. And I think government workers will do that extremely carefully, because their jobs, reputations, and freedom are on the line.

Will a despotic dystopia occur where no one gets away with anything, and anyone can get anyone at any time? Not likely. I just don't see humans tolerating it. It's unrealistic. The new devices and media actually make 1984 and Brazil far less possible. They do give our worst enemies the ability to invade our privacy though. Ourselves.

Jessy169

(602 posts)
39. No
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:43 AM
Jul 2013

I just think there are very good reasons for the level of monitoring that's going on.

I'm not inclined to believe that collecting meta-data or storing cell-phone calls for possible future reference constitutes a "violation" of someone's privacy. Some lawyers will no doubt disagree.

I don't buy into all the cynical and sinister motivations that some DU'ers are ascribing to the NSA and Obama admin -- or even to the "one-percenters" (in many cases).

I believe that there are serious threats capable of inflicting unacceptable damage lurking in the shadows waiting to strike, and potentially epic disasters are moving quickly toward us with climate change and dwindling resources.

The internet, cell phone and other related technologies are relatively new to the world -- they have improved our lives but also presented us with a multitude of problems. Worst of all, they have proven to be a VERY useful tool for our enemies. We have to shut that shit down. We just have to.

If you can't see that we're living in an increasingly dangerous world that might require the level of monitoring that the NSA is doing, fine. Somebody has to make the hard decisions and do what has to be done, regardless of the consequences. I believe Obama is doing that, and that the NSA and American military top priorities are protecting you and me, whether we like it or not.

I understand the cynicism and I understand the fear and the anger expressed by some DU'ers regarding Snowden and the issues he exposed. I just have a different point of view. Thank you for asking.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
45. The NSA and other covert agencies have given us ample evidence of sinister motivation
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:38 PM
Jul 2013

It's just a matter of historical fact. Why would they change their stripes now?

Thanks.

BumRushDaShow

(129,239 posts)
34. "someday we will see this tried before the Supreme Court"
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 09:24 PM
Jul 2013

With fucking Scalia and Thomas there? And if a rethug gets in, guaranteed that it would tip 6-3.

The 4th Amendment was jettisoned a long time ago and the selective outrage here on DU (i.e., ignoring Stop and Frisk because it apparently hasn't happened to them) is just the tip of the iceberg.

The issue now is getting it back piece by piece, legal case by legal case, not by acting like teabaggers keyboard warring and whining about the EvilNaziSocialistCommieFascistObama™.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
35. Not this Supreme Court, maybe a future one that understands its duty is to interpret the
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 09:27 PM
Jul 2013

laws not make them.

UTUSN

(70,720 posts)
36. ALL I know is, walking downtown in my town and at Happy Hour
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 10:00 PM
Jul 2013

AND on the local t.v. news every night - THERE ARE CAMERAS EVERYWHERE.


AND in London the entire metropolis is COVERED with cameras.


I'm DAILY astounded that robbers enter convenience stores thinking their PRIVACY is SECURE.*I* don't like walking downtown knowing I'm being WATCHED all the time. But how much should I CARE or BE OBLIVIOUS?!1

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
37. I think there is a distinction...
Wed Jul 3, 2013, 10:23 PM
Jul 2013

With the cameras, you know you are being watched. With the emails and Internet, we don't know.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
47. I'll let you know after I'm done kicking the shit out of the pervert holding the camera
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 04:26 PM
Jul 2013

outside my bedroom window.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
48. If everybody gets rained on, why should we build shelters?
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 04:27 PM
Jul 2013

Everybody gets sick, why build hospitals or train doctors?

Nobody is really free..why should we pursue freedom?

Everybody gets spied on by somebody, why should we desire privacy?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
50. Is this about phone metadata?
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:41 PM
Jul 2013

Or S&G's unsupported claim that the NSA is 'watching our thoughts form as we type'.

Because the latter does not appear to be occurring.

And many people -myself included- do not consider phone metadata maintained in a black box to be invading our privacy. Especially when there is no evidence that the procedures in place to protect privacy are being subverted.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
55. Yes, that would include "metadata"...
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:05 PM
Jul 2013

It would even include the cookie on your computer that identifies you with the website you are visiting. That is your information and no one should hold it without your permission. That is my opinion of the 4th Amendment. It is about secrecy. With metadata, they can take you area code and find what state you may be in? The next 3 numbers would tell them your town. If you have put your cell number on line or other places, they can pick out your house with GPS. They can find out who you are talking with - your doctor, your psychiatrist, your mistress, whomever. Yes, there is a lot they can find out with metadata.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
58. COULD doesn't mean they ARE.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:11 PM
Jul 2013

If that was occurring, why didn't S&G find evidence of it?

And I don't recall anyone saying the NSA is collecting cookies, either.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

elleng

(131,028 posts)
51. We have a RIGHT to expect whatever,
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:46 PM
Jul 2013

but considering tech/cyber/terrorism etc., it becomes less and less reasonable to expect privacy to be maintained.

Response to elleng (Reply #51)

Response to elleng (Reply #54)

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
62. Truly sorry about that and a K&R to your post...!
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:17 PM
Jul 2013

Ahhhh Families....Even the best...can get one in a tizzy. No excuse ...but, again, sorry about that.

elleng

(131,028 posts)
65. OH, definitely tizzy-prone!
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:25 PM
Jul 2013

Watching Music Man and avoiding such, but do wish I were with family.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
67. Not meaning to sound mawkish but...you are!
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:30 PM
Jul 2013

Happy 4th of July!
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
70. Sometimes what we wish for isn't quite what we get, though....
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:45 PM
Jul 2013

Some is good..some is..well...get's one in a tizzy. Sometimes on wishes that it could be better to be reading a book alone...away from it all..



 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
52. I buy charmin with aloe and Pepsi Max(zero calories).And post on an international poltiical board.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:55 PM
Jul 2013

And purchase everything on a CC and have an EZ pass, and cellphone.

I don't much facebook as it is such a pain to navigate and I am not someone that can condense my thoughts into a few words,
so tweeting is out.

(I never was good on true/false, multiple choice, but ask me to write a 10,000 word essay, and that is the best.

I am more concerned with the voting rights acts being taken down,
and with the 2nd destroying ALL rights of anyone

including my right to safely assemble in a movie theatre, super market, bar or school since there are so many shootings.

I am scared of Zimmerman's out there shooting people and using the 2nd as an excuse.

This other stuff don't bother me.

BTW-we never had privacy
Anyone who had a phone like the one in Andy Griffith knew everyone was listening

Those who lived in an apartment building in NYC, know one could put their ears to the pipes of the radiators and hear three stories
above them if they cared.

Guess its regional.

Because in NYC everybody's business is everyone's business.

And Wednesdays always was Prince Spaghetti Days.
And people yelled out the window to tell everyone that.

Happy 4th.
Only 2 hours or so to the Macy's fireworks display.

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
60. "Anyone who had a phone like the one in Andy Griffith knew everyone was listening"..
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:14 PM
Jul 2013

But everyone did not listen. They had more respect for people's privacy. Not everyone.

 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
64. everyone knows everyone's business in NYC back then.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:20 PM
Jul 2013

its part of being a New Yorker.

Guess its an age thing.

People talked to each other back then. Face to face.

From the street to the windows above. People stuck their heads out

People sat on the stoops all summer long and yacked and yacked

It's like the TV show CHEERS.

everyone knew everybody's name

Paul Simon the singer mocked privacy in his song "America"
He said the man in the gabardine suit was a spy
Careful she said, his bowtie is really a camera" (C) Paul Simon

If everything wasn't taped back then, what would Rosemary Woods have erased in those 18 1/2 minutes anyhow?

What would Ian Fleming have written about all those decades and decades ago.
After all, what was James Bond himself but a ruthless (but charming and handsome) spy?

jrandom421

(1,005 posts)
56. I think Scott McNealy said it best in 1999, when he was CEO of Sun Microsystems
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:09 PM
Jul 2013

"You have no privacy on the Internet! Get over it!"

kentuck

(111,106 posts)
63. But if there was a law protecting citizens...
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:19 PM
Jul 2013

Mr. Scott McNealy would be breaking the law. That the least we should do.

Wolf Frankula

(3,601 posts)
69. In A Real Sense the Late Robert Heinlein
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:44 PM
Jul 2013

was right. 'There is NO privacy in any society crowded enough to require ID cards. None.'

I've looked online and investigated what was held about me. Bob, you were right.

Wolf

(Who is a Democratic Socialist, not a Libertarian, Randite or Longian.)

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