If you' re strongly Pro Choice, then you should support Ed Snowden.

[truedelphi]

Stop and think about it - should the Republicans ever take over the nation and install their total agenda of Government and Church control over a woman's body, just what do you think the NSA spying would be used for then?

Do you think the surveillance might enable someone to know if you went somewhere and had an abortion?

[Skidmore]

1. Change Congress and your state house reps and senators.

Get the laws changed.

Handwringing does none of this. Get to work.

[FarPoint]

5. Bingo!!!

Good feedback.

[truedelphi]

26. You missed my point.

But this person on DK didn't:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/04/1221178/-Here-s-what-happens-when-some-wants-to-use-your-public-info-to-intimidate-you

[Skidmore]

30. No, I didn't and my point is the same.

Change congress and change the laws.

[gcomeau]

2. For cripes sake...

It would be used for NOTHING related to women getting abortions since it's not monitoring domestic communications.

Lately I'm cared to open DU for fear the repeated smacking of my forehead against my desk is going to give me a concussion.

[dsc]

7. Oh really

woman who works places call from cell phone to doctor's office during business hours. Then a few hours later the same phone, from that doctor's office, places a call to a male of similar age. Then same phone starts calling abortion clinics. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to put it all together.

[gcomeau]

9. Is that some book you're writing? Because here in the real world...

"woman who works places call from cell phone to doctor's office during business hours."

Ok. Not monitored...

"Then a few hours later the same phone, from that doctor's office, places a call to a male of similar age."

...no idea why I care about that... but also not monitored...

"Then same phone starts calling abortion clinics."

Still have no idea where you're going with that... still not monitored...

"Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to put it all together."

No... I'd say it takes psychedelic drugs to put that all together.

[dsc]

10. the lugs most certainly are monitored

and if abortion were to become criminal most certainly those lugs could be used exactly and precisely as I stated.

[REP]

13. LUDs

Local Usage Details.

Edit: oh, and LOLs. Used to work for a Telco. You have great faith in them. LUDs are kept for 24 hours and deleted.

[dsc]

16. call them what you want

but the whole point of this is that those details are saved by the NSA.

[truedelphi]

27. Then read this excellent DAilyKos diary, RFP:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/04/1221178/-Here-s-what-happens-when-some-wants-to-use-your-public-info-to-intimidate-you

[Summer Hathaway]

18. Okay, Sherlock.

Can you please outline the purpose for which the NSA would be monitoring this unidentified woman's calls in the first place?

Then explain why they would be the least bit interested in what those phone calls were about?

I placed a call to a doctor's office this morning. I wanted to ask my husband (he's a doctor, and its his office) if he was taking his buddy to the basketball game next Friday. My husband then called said buddy (male of a similar age) to confirm their plans. My husband's receptionist then called several abortion clinics in order to make an appointment for a patient, or for herself, or for her daughter, or simply to confirm that the phone numbers and addresses on their office's list of abortion providers is up to date.

That is just ONE of hundreds of possible scenarios.

[truedelphi]

31. They're collecting EVERYTHING, Summer.

Why? Follow the money.

Stephen Colbert introduced his audience to a new computer storage term the other night: Yada bytes. One Million Billion giga bytes.

You think this collection doesn't matter, because like a lot of people on DU, what is happening yesterday is what you base reality on.

I base reality on both yesterday, yester-year, and whatever could potentially happen tomorrow. I grew up during the McCarthy Witch hunt days, when perfectly decent people were stripped of the ability to work in Hollywood because they had signed a document some twenty years earlier. And at the point in the 1930's, when they signed a sheet of paper inidicating they had attended a Communist party meeting, no one was going crazy over the idea of Commies being terrorists. But that changed over a decade later.

So maybe today the fact that the NSA has my last five years of telephone calls is not important. And please quit thinking this is just some recorded entry of times I am on the phone, or phone numbers I have called. According to security analysts who have talked about this for several years, the NSA can go back and re-constitute what has been said. Even movie star Shia Leboeuf mentioned what the NSA can do several years back on Jay Leno: http://ksfm.cbslocal.com/2013/06/11/shia-lebeouf-knew-about-the-government-tapping-our-phones/

Also here is what is currently going on in Carolina, with someone over at DailyKos discussing the repurcussions for people now, and also what it will be like when people in the Corporate Political Class have all this data at their disposal. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/04/1221178/-Here-s-what-happens-when-some-wants-to-use-your-public-info-to-intimidate-you

[Summer Hathaway]

36. Sorry, Sabrina

I do not base my views on what a 'movie star' (?) says on the Leno show, or what a blogger posts on DailyKos.

And I certainly don't base my views on anything I read here on HairOnFireUnderground.

[truedelphi]

39. Sabrina who? n/t

[Summer Hathaway]

40. Sorry about that.

I WAS responding to you.

(I was about to respond to sabrina1 on another thread, so I had her name on my mind.)

[Thinkingabout]

4. I don't like thieves and I consider him one, this has nothing to do with pro choice. Snowden had a

choice, it would not have been my choice but still does not have anything to do with decisions a woman should make with her own body.

[chimpymustgo]

12. I don't like being spied on, and I consider this government - and future ones that apply

this surveillance to be spying on its citizens.

And who knows how they'll use it??

Of course, these anti-abortion crazies might criminalize - and seek out - abortion seekers!

[Progressive dog]

6. lol They already can watch abortion clinics

They even kill doctors and use state governments to shut them down.

[truedelphi]

20. i came of age, pre Roe vs Wade, andyoung women ahd abortions if

Parents had the money to fly them overseas. That is the scenario that comes to mind, where surveillance would be of help to the RW.

[Progressive dog]

21. That is bizarre reasoning

if it's reasoning at all. This NSA-Obama stuff ignores the role of the Federal government in protecting your civil rights from the states.

[truedelphi]

22. Someone on DailyKos understands what I am saying:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/04/1221178/-Here-s-what-happens-when-some-wants-to-use-your-public-info-to-intimidate-you

[Progressive dog]

29. One person, I'm not surprised, they seem to

think that North Carolina gets data from the NSA.
As I said,it's bizarre reasoning.

[truedelphi]

32. Are you severely reading challenged? That article says nothing about those

Republicans getting their information from theNSA. Go back and read it again.

The author is making the point that if this is currently what is happening from the Political Class, then what will be in store from us over the years when the tightly entwined collaborative efforts of Big Military, Big Surveillance, and Politicians are operating. Obviously the politicians right now are not using NSA data, unless they possess an "in" like Di Feinstein quite possibly does.

[Progressive dog]

33. It tries to tie the 2 together and I took their "logic" to

it's logical conclusion.
The author is posting CT bullshit, designed to frighten fools and children, to convince them to do exactly what the plutocracy desires them to do. They want us to fear our federal government, so they can break us into smaller, more easily controlled groups.
So no I'm not reading challenged, I've heard this same kind of crap since I started paying attention. The threat to our rights is not coming from the NSA, it's coming from those who demonize the federal government.

[truedelphi]

41. He is talking about how a RW think tank, Civitas, has utilized its resources

To get background information on those who were protesting for women's right.

How did Civitas get that background info? Probably by subscribing to a credit check site - for thirty five dollars, annually, a person subscribes and then can get unlimited data on the backgrounds of any individuals that the person submits: submit a name, and you will receive as a reply any court records, marriage licenses, divorce decrees, court cases in which the person was a defendant or plaintiff, etc.

The Diary's author's point was that if we can already do this today, in the future such RW think tanks will have even more dastardly tricks up its sleeves.

BTW, a federal government is a necessity, but demonizing various programs, agencies and individuals of that government becomes a necessity when its actions are illegal and in conflict with the Constitution of the USA. Our First President once wrote quite eloquently: ""Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -

[Progressive dog]

42. NSA is now running credit checks or

the credit agencies wouldn't have that info if the NSA didn't. That argument is not logical, it borders on unhinged.
BTW I'd like to know the source for the GW quote. There are a number of quotes from founding fathers floating around that turn out not to be true and I think this is one of them.
From the Volokh Conspiracy re your GW quote

Commenter Martha suggested I ask Fred Shapiro, editor of the excellent Yale Book of Quotations, so I did, and he promptly responded:

This is undoubtedly apocryphal, like many other quotations attributed to Lincoln or Washington. No one has ever found any evidence that Washington said it. In the next edition of the Yale Book of Quotations, barring any further discoveries, I will list it as a pseudo-Washingtonism, with the earliest known citation being [in 1902].

[Gravitycollapse]

8. I support the leaks and also think this thread is insane and opportunistic.

[chimpymustgo]

15. But some people are showing a bizarre lack of foresight about the possible consequences

of wholescale domestic surveillance. No one wants to envision a Ted Cruz presidency - but it could happen. By the time some people get their heads our of the sand, it will be far to late. It may be already.

[truedelphi]

17. Having utter contempt for Ed Snowden (As some here do)

While not acknowledging what Total Surveillance is now and will be later on is insane as is letting Dick Cheney off the hook. if Snowden is a bad bad boy, then why in the world are we not prosecuting even worse criminals, starting with those who lied us into that nasty war with Iraq? Or would that mean bringing some Democrats down so best to avoid doing?

[truedelphi]

23. Here is a similar discussion over at

Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/04/1221178/-Here-s-what-happens-when-some-wants-to-use-your-public-info-to-intimidate-you

[arely staircase]

11. Elect Democrats like Wendy Davis if you are pro choice. Your state legislators draw the congres-

sional dirstrict lines.

[truedelphi]

24. Even Republican gubernatorial candidates in Califronia are pro-choice.

I live in a liberal state. I doubt if I have even seen a name on a ballot (in the Counties where I have lived,) that was not Pro-choice.

[Whisp]

14. no sale. poor attempt. no text.

[Summer Hathaway]

19. And when they allegedly use this technology

and find out a woman had an abortion - what do you suppose they will do with that information? Force women to undo their abortion? Blackmail them? Publicly shame them?

The Republicans have been trying for decades to legislate abortion so as to make it more and more difficult to obtain one. That's going on even as we speak.

Your scenario is laughable for the obvious reasons - and trying to link a pro-life stance with support for Snowden is downright hysterical.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. LOL @ the Snowden fan club

[L0oniX]

28. Well this will bring out the herd of baby bunny stompers.

[Agschmid]

34. You should self delete this ridiculous post. n/t

[RebelOne]

35. Agreed. I am pro-choice but do not support Snowden. n/t

[madinmaryland]

37. They would be able to break doctor patient confidentiality?? That would make for an interesting

SC challenge.

[treestar]

38. No that does not mean we have to support random release of classified information

The emoprogs should avoid this type of thing - under single payer which duly covered abortions as they would want, the government would know who got the abortions.

[UTUSN]

43. Is this o.p.satire?!1 It's like the Faux meme that the Philly serial killer was "an abortion doctor"