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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy Won’t Anyone Take Edward Snowden?
Because he is a terrible candidate for asylum
By Eric Posner
Poor Edward Snowden! Hes willing to live nearly anywhere, but no country is willing to accept him. Not Ecuador. Not China, Russia, Norway, or Spain. Why not? Because he is a terrible candidate for asylum.
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The problem for Snowden is that these countries wouldnt gain anything by giving him asylum. He has presumably already revealed everything he knows or is planning to soon. Foreign governments can benefit from these disclosures without doing anything for Snowden in return. Most spies sell their secrets to other countries rather than give them away, and bargain hard for an escape route.
Meanwhile, Snowden is not the type of person you want living in your country. Countries dont grant citizenship or permanent residence to people they know to be felons. These people are more trouble than theyre worth. For all his IT skills, Snowden is not likely to be an appealing employee to a government or business that might otherwise be able to use them...Any country with an extradition treaty with the United States would probably extradite himso his efforts to get into Germany or France are pretty pointless. Perhaps, if he reached Cuba or Bolivia, he could stay in one of those countries, in the process giving up the civil liberties that he holds so dear.
Even Snowdens supporters realize that he must face the music. The Guardian, having wrung him dry of secrets, has solemnly declared that he should be tried albeit as a whistleblower, whatever that means. If he returns to the United States, prosecutors can and will charge him under whatever law he broke, and that includes the Espionage Act. He is likely to be convicted, but he has an outside chance of an embarrassing mistrial, a nullifying jury, even a sympathetic judge who goes easy on him in sentencing. Americans have a soft spot for people like Snowden. This country has a long history of unsuccessful prosecutions of dissenters, from the alleged Nazi sympathizer Elizabeth Dilling, to the Chicago Eight, to Daniel Ellsberg. Thoreau, abettors of fugitive slaves, civil rights protesters, and Vietnam-era draft dodgers are honored in historical memory. The founders themselves were traitors who made good. Today, secure but stifling in the embrace of a government that protects us from crime, terrorism, old age, and ill health by keeping track of our every move, we play Patrick Henry and enact harmless mini-rebellions by cheering on people like Snowden and Julian Assange. They defy the system without threatening it.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2013/07/edward_snowden_and_asylum_he_is_a_terrible_candidate.html
Fleeing to Hong Kong didn't help his case.
<...>
Calling Snowdens travels and story since releasing information about the National Security Agencys surveillance programs operatic, Bernstein said it may have been better for Snowden if he hadnt fled the country.
Civil disobedience is just that. Indeed that this form of civil disobedience, that he would have done better perhaps for himself and for his case, as were now seeing in this opera, to stay in the United States and say, I did this for this reason, Bernstein said, noting that Snowden faced a real possibility of a long prison sentence. Its a tough call if youre in his shoes. Hes got to face the music, and hes facing them in this odyssey.
Bernstein also said that most of the programs that Snowden revealed were already known to the public. While Snowden disclosed more about them and put the U.S. in the spotlight, the takeaway was that the programs were appropriately run...the program has not been abused and safeguards are in place domestically, Bernstein said.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/carl-bernstein-edward-snowden-comments-93697.html
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...but it's not exactly journalistic foul play to call him one when he's admitted it to in international media a hundred times. Find something else to object to.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)I could be wrong but,
If people have spied or suspected of being terrorists, they may be detained indefinitely without trial I thought-
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)Do something that is manifestly illegal, then deliberately place yourself outside of America's reach and whine that you haven't had a fair trial when they try to get you. Doesn't work.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Azathoth
(4,611 posts)Cha
(297,406 posts)Only his passport has been revoked. Snowden can go back to the USA and clear his name anytime he wants.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)As good as any speculation *you* got...
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Or have the NSA obtain every phone call, e-mail, bank transaction, personnel file, and police record generated within their borders since 9/11/2001.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)they just don't want to admit it!
markiv
(1,489 posts)like Iraq was
or economically strangled, like Iran or Cuba
lunasun
(21,646 posts)in Russia didn't play well once off the ground and was airspace bullied by other nations
djean111
(14,255 posts)Snowden asylum requests:
Rejected: India, Poland, Brazil
Considering: Bolivia, Germany, Italy
Has to be in the country for request to be considered:
Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Spain, Ireland, Switzerland, Ecuador
Unconfirmed: China, France, Venezuela
Withdrawn: Russia
Pending: Nicaragua, Cuba
longship
(40,416 posts)And R&K on the thread.
Galraedia
(5,026 posts)You don't engage in anti-U.S. activity on foreign soil - because by proxy you are then engaging that country in anti-U.S. activity. This is why Putin told Snowden to shut his mouth if he wanted to stay in Russia.
Cha
(297,406 posts)Pholus
(4,062 posts)upi402
(16,854 posts)better question
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)To begin with...
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)AlinPA
(15,071 posts)fatten in exchange for his disclosures of how the NSA processes work. IMO, he is peddling that information or has done so already.
MADem
(135,425 posts)"Look, look--it says on the side of this guy that the deposit is a million dollars or more--let's see if we can cash him in!!!"
He's gotta be worth a year's supply of surplus wheat, or maybe a sanction relaxation or three!
I imagine Little Kim won't like him unless he can play basketball, and lose the One-on-One's with Fearless Leader!
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)gholtron
(376 posts)AlinPA
(15,071 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)The supreme kind of capital, financial capital, began then to develop its strategy of war towards the new world and over what was left of the old. Hand in hand with the technological revolution which placed the entire world, through a computer, on its desk and at its mercy, the financial markets imposed their laws and precepts on the entire planet. The "globalization" of the new war is nothing more than the globalization of the logic of the financial markets. The National States (and their leaders) went from being directors of the economy to those who were directed, better said tele-directed, by the basic premise of financial power: free commercial exchange. Not only that, but the logic of the market took advantage of the "porosity" which in all the social spectrum of the world, provoked the development of telecommunications and penetrated and appropriated all the aspects of social activity. Finally there was a global war which was total!
snip----
The careful and ordered escapade which the "Cold War" handed down, the "new world order" quickly became pieces due to the neoliberal explosion. World capitalism sacrificed without mercy that which gave it a future and a historic project; national capitalism. Companies and States fell apart in minutes, but not due to the torments of proletarian revolutions, but the stalemates of financial hurricanes. The child (neoliberalism) ate the father (national capitalism) and in passing destroyed all of the discursive fallacies of capitalist ideology: in the new world order there is no democracy, liberty, equality, nor fraternity.
-snip====
And when we say "megapolitics" we don't refer to the number of those who move in them. There are a few, very few, who find themselves in this "megasphere". Megapolitics globalizes national politics, in other words, it subjects it to a direction that has global interests (that for the most part are contradictory to national interests) and whose logic is that of the market, which is to say, of economic profit. With this economist (and criminal) criteria, wars, credits, selling and buying of merchandise, diplomatic acknowledgements, commercial blocks, political supports, migration laws, coups, repressions, elections, international political unity, political ruptures and investments are decided upon. In short the survival of entire nations.
The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html
eissa
(4,238 posts)Just because Snowden isn't considered a traitor in the U.S., doesn't mean other countries don't see him as such.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Very good point.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)If he'll do this to his home country, what keeps him from doing it to a foreign country? He can't be trusted.
Kahuna
(27,311 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)You would have thought that after all of those commericals with Karl Malden, Snowden would have known better than to travel abroad without some extra cash.
But now, with so many countries refusing to take secrets stolen from the NSA as down payment on his rent, Snowden is strapped for cash.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)leftstreet
(36,109 posts)He hasn't done that
Why do you keep pushing these lies?
shawn703
(2,702 posts)Some tough medicine for some here to swallow though. Thanks ProSense.
Cha
(297,406 posts)someone who ..
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/jamie-chandler/2013/06/18/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-is-neither-a-whistle-blower-nor-a-civil-disobeyer
Thank you, Carl Bernstein..
The most important aspect is that so far, as far as we know, the program has not been abused and safeguards are in place domestically, Bernstein said.
GG and ES mission to destroy Pres Obama is not working. They're only making vindictive asses out of themselves.
Thanks ProSense
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)You know, such as going to trial and facing possible consequences of one's actions. That's the yucky part.
It speaks to the desperation of a Social Security-despising, government-hating Libertarian that they are willing to hide out in some of the most far-Left nations in the world to avoid dealing with the reality they created.
liberal N proud
(60,338 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)applegrove
(118,724 posts)countries in Europe stopped waring with each other. They traded. Nobody wants to be left out when there is $$$$ to be made with good relations and trade pacts. We know how the rich will do anything where money is concerned. The powers that be in these countries don't want to get on the bad side of most favoured nation status with the USA. Giving Snowdon refuge would be a sign of aggression towards the USA. Only a place like Russia can afford to do that.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)Things like that just happen. Certain things that leaders of counties do not want the world to know.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)I had always back then wondered why only Woodward was involved in the breadcrumbs tossed by DeepThroat during Watergate,
and later I found out the real reason it was only Woodward, whereas everything else had both their bylines on it.
Bernstein was the real deal reporter. Woodward was, well Bob.
This part cut/pasted from the op second article gets the entire point in 2 1/2 paragraphs-
from the above second link-
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/carl-bernstein-edward-snowden-comments-93697.html
Bernstein said it may have been better for Snowden if he hadnt fled the country.
Civil disobedience is just that.
Indeed that this form of civil disobedience, that he would have done better perhaps for himself and for his case, as were now seeing in this opera, to stay in the United States and say, I did this for this reason, Bernstein said, noting that Snowden faced a real possibility of a long prison sentence. Its a tough call if youre in his shoes.
Hes got to face the music, and hes facing them in this odyssey.
Bernstein also said that most of the programs that Snowden revealed were already known to the public. While Snowden disclosed more about them and put the U.S. in the spotlight, the takeaway was that the programs were appropriately run...the program has not been abused and safeguards are in place domestically, Bernstein said.
Response to ProSense (Original post)
Scurrilous This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Happy 4th.
Time for me to head outside and watch the show.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)Oh yes! Now I remember.
Victor Laszlo will never leave Casablanca - alive.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Where have I heard this gleeful tone before?"
...is where I heard it before: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023163029
kentuck
(111,106 posts)The world is very inter-connected and every country seems to have financial interests just about everywhere. They have their own self-interests to worry about. They don't have time for this type of intrigue. At least, most of them. We will soon find out if it is all of them. I think if there is a country that will take Snowden, it will be in Latin America. They are so pissed off right now.
Hekate
(90,747 posts)... and through Putin's airspace to their embassy in Moscow, are they?
Putin has his OWN interests at heart, and he is not a stupid man. He doesn't "need" to kowtow to Uncle Sam or anyone else, but he casts a cold, cold eye on all chances. He's gotten everything he wants out of Snowden, including the deeply unsurprising news that US intelligence is interested in the doings of the former USSR, and now he owes nothing to Snowden at all.
Hekate
(90,747 posts)Some parts of his brain may be genius, but other parts are apparently deeply stupid and unaware of the Real World.
kentuck
(111,106 posts)when confronting the NSA and the CIA. Information is knowledge and knowledge is power.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)We see how that worked out.
I wonder if Bolivia dropped the dime about Snowden on the plane to the European nations in order to punk them?
That would be delicious.
Pity we'll never really know.