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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBolivia threatens to close US embassy. EU Minster told President Maduro the orders came from the CIA
Bolivia's leader threatens to close US embassy
AFP Updated July 5, 2013, 12:12 pm
COCHABAMBA, Bolivia (AFP) - Bolivia's president threatened to close the US embassy as leftist Latin American leaders joined him in blasting Europe and the United States after his plane was rerouted amid suspicions US fugitive Edward Snowden was aboard.
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"We don't need a US embassy in Bolivia," he said. "My hand would not shake to close the US embassy. We have dignity, sovereignty. Without the United States, we are better politically, democratically."
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At a rally before the meeting, Maduro claimed that the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had ordered France, Portugal, Italy and Spain to deny access to Morales's plane on Tuesday.
"A minister of one of these European governments personally told us by telephone that they were going to apologize because they were surprised, and that those who gave the order to aviation authorities in this country ... were the CIA," he said.
...
http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/17876985/bolivias-leader-threatens-to-close-us-embassy/
Do read the whole article.
Video in Spanish of Maduro the same thing about the CIA (ordering the air space be closed country by country) in a different venue than the quote. In Spanish for the moment.
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HipChick
(25,485 posts)President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela accused the United States and Colombia of conspiring to poison him. Announcing on May 30 that the “entire Colombian state is in agreement” to topple him from power in concert with the U.S., which has had a troubled relationship with the oil-rich South American for at least a decade while the now deceased President Hugo Chavez was in power. Maduro had a series of television interviews in which he denounced a “psychological operation” and “economic sabotage” directed against himself and Venezuela.
On the evening of May 30, Maduro said that Colombia has received “a team from Miami, with (former U.S. ambassador) Roger Noriega, only they can say how Maduro knows so much, but I have to say it: it has to do with my life; a team of experts has arrived with poison and they are prepared to come to Venezuela to inject me with the venom.”
Maduro continued along these lines, saying “No, not to make me die in one day, but to made me sick over the course of the coming two months. Do I stand back silently? I must denounce and confront it. They will not be able to do it; be assured that they will not be able to do it, because I am going to live many years and remain president of this country for many years.”
http://www.speroforum.com/a/VKIVFMOFGC37/74045-Venezuela-Maduro-denounces-USColombian-plan-to-poison-him#.UdY_VrzwHyc
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)there are times they are right.
If you understand the history, you will realize that likely they are right.
Some examples here.
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busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Great Marriage...Right wing and C.I.A...This is how it all starts...
malaise
(269,016 posts)Just saying
think
(11,641 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)
frylock
(34,825 posts)it might give you a greater insight into their mighty paranoia.
They have reason to be paranoid about the CIA.
they ARE paranoid , PERIOD !
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Exist as mere banana republics. In a banana republic, there often are not elections, but dictators. Even when elections exist, the two candidates that have any chance of winning are basically spouting the same notions. The USA government gladly props up these dictators, as it benefits the Major corporations that operate in those countries.
Rule of law exists only for the upper portion of the society. For instance in Haiti, the dictator would be in his auto, being driven around town, and if he saw a store where he would like to "shop," his chauffeur would pull over and wait. Once in the store, Papa Doc would decide on what he wanted, and then waltz out of the store without paying. If he took two thirds of the store owners' inventory, well, that was just the merchants' bad luck for having things in stock the dictator liked.
Currently the public is in a froth in the nation of Honduras. Protesters who are out in the streets are dealt with very harshly. And if they are arrested, they may be tortured.
There is an interesting situation with regards to torture and Latin America. (South America too.) The US has a special school, down in Georgia, called the School of the Americas, and the various top military people come to this school and are instructed in various methods of keeping control over a population and torturing the dissidents. The School is also referred to as "The School of Assassins." You can find out quite a bit more by going here: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13436.htm
newfie11
(8,159 posts)I would hope before condemning a country people would do some research but guess not.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)think
(11,641 posts)I've seen no other president apologize for any of the s*** we've done to the countries of Central and South America. So he does deserve a big props for that.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)you are NOT paranoid when you speak the truth about what this country is still trying to do in that region of the world.
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. As recently as 2002, the Bush War Criminals backed an attempted Coup against a Latin American Democratically Elected President. We just can't get over how Latin Americans have kicked out all of our old Dictator Friends in their countries, one after the other.
Learn some history before you call anyone in any country in South and Central America 'paranoid' for protecting themselves against their old enemies, and we WERE their enemies. It is so wonderful to see formerly oppressed nations regain their Independence and Sovereignty after so many decades of US Backed Dictators, like Pinochet.
They are finally prosecuting their War Criminals. Maybe one day we'll do the same thing.
Does the name Henry Kissenger ring any bells for you?
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...when it comes to protecting one's self from the monster we've become.
- We kill babies with X-Boxes, remember?
It's kids and babies, goddammit.
ellie
(6,929 posts)happened with that plane but I know we better keep our fucking noses out of South America's business. We have done enough damage there.
This fucking country.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"They" have good reason to be. Please Google.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Yes indeed. And the "Dingbat factory" as Jeremy Scahill adroitly called it, will twist itself into inverted pretzels to excuse any extent the government goes to, no matter how illegal, how embarrassing internationally, or how damaging.
The US has STILL never apologized for the massacre of 250,000 Guatemalans, or the many coups, the starvation, the looting, the assassinations. And the mighty, pathetic *war on drugs* that's still killing thousands like they were rodents.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)will buy that malarky.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)without the bile.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Response to morningfog (Reply #16)
flamingdem This message was self-deleted by its author.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)much less communicating with bile. There are multiple sides to the situation, the dingbats comment indicates how the other side rolls
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)If the poster has reason the believe the CIA could not have been involved, I would love to hear it. It would make for a lively debate. Instead the post was rude IMO and added nothing to the thread except inserting a jarring note. This happens to every thread about this spying scandal. If it is not rolling emoticons, it is snark. It is getting terribly tiring. This is my opinion. YMMV
Peace, Mojo
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)the cia & us government have a long, documented, and malignant history in latin america. it has overthrown governments, killed heads of state, destroyed economies, taken over economies, and much else, including purposely infecting people with syphilis.
yet persons like yourself say that someone who raises the question of whether the us or cia might have put in a word with air traffic control is a 'dingbat'.
the dingbats are the people who rule out the possibility.
tuskeegee ended when i was in college. it is well within my living memory, not so terribly long ago. That was the US government, the CDC, and the US public health service who did that, allowed black men with syphilis to go untreated & die while 'studying' the process.
and that's just what we did to 'our own people,' within my lifetime. not ancient history.
you guys are the 'dingbats'.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Right on cue we two.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)at the supposed upcoming trial that will never happen.
The incident has proven useful for internal consumption.
I will be convinced otherwise when Embassies shut and trials are underway
morningfog
(18,115 posts)that the nations did as they were told.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Of course some suckers will lap it up.
The CIA ordered those countries to deny airspace?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Reagan could tell you all about it, and Henry Kissenger, remember him? Do you know anything about the history of the CIA operations in countries all over the world??
Are you aware of the prosecution of CIA operatives very recently in Europe?
Maybe one day you might discuss issues rather than hurl insults. No one pays attention to internet insults, they are a dime a dozen, they pay attention to INFORMATION. If you know something about this then post it. If not, thanks for kicking the thread.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)where it doesn't exist.
And having studied Guatemalan Huipils back in the day, I am very well aware of the CIA's involvement in Central & South America and General Rios Montt's atrocities and the School of the Americas abuses.
BUT I am also aware that Central & South American leaders make accusations against the USA as their stock in trade.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)were CORRECT as Condi herself proved when she jumped the gun on that operation which the people foiled.
I have yet to see them make an accusation that didn't turn out to be true. Read any of the Latin American Wikileaks Cables? Lol, look, we have no credibility anywhere anymore. What would have restored SOME credibility would have been the prosecution of our War Criminals. But once we decided to move forward from those atrocities we lost all credibility except with our Dictator friends in places like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan et al.
Ever wonder why we have so many Dictator allies in the world and so few Democratically elected leaders? It's astonishing really when you start to look at who we support and who we try to remove from office.
I hope one day ALL Americans will wake up to what is being done in their name, as more and more are doing. Because only we can change these horrific foreign policies that are not just bad for the victims of them, but are weakening THIS country to the point where we see other regions of the world gaining strength while we are viewed more and more as a rogue nation.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to know wrt Bush's intentions towards Latin American nations throwing out our old Dictator allies down there and the needs of the people of all of Latin American to ensure their safety from any more Imperial, Colonial interference.
Funny now that I remember. In 2002 you could not find a Democrat who did not slam, rightfully, that CIA backed coup. Then suddenly around 2004, the anti-Latin American Democratic Leaders contingency, prevalent ONLY, up to then, on Right Wing forums, began to show up on Democratic forums. It was remarkable.
Judi Lynn
(160,542 posts)It doesn't take long for someone searching for the truth to read something in a message board, and start upon his/her own journey looking for more and more until he/she has a deeper understanding.
As you say, the distractions are a dime a dozen.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)The CIA ordered those countries to deny airspace?
The CIA? Oh lawd
"A minister of one of these European governments personally told us by telephone that they were going to apologize because they were surprised, and that those who gave the order to aviation authorities in this country ... were the CIA," he said.
So who is this European minister?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)AND citizen for that matter, is very well acquainted with the CIA. Would you like me to provide you with some recent history of the CIA wrt Latin America? You seem astonished at the thought that the CIA would ever interfere in the affairs of Latin America? That is actually funny, in a tragic sort of way. Put it this way, we don't have much credibility when it comes to Latin America.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)But to claim the CIA ordered France, Portugal, Italy and Spain to deny airspace?
The claim is so ridiculously outlandish that it deserves nothing but scorn and ridicule.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)European affairs apparently.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)"At the State Department, a spokeswoman, Jennifer Psaki, declined to say whether American authorities had asked other countries to deny airspace to the Bolivian plane. “I would point you to them to describe why they made decisions if they made decisions,” Ms. Psaki told reporters. "
--Ms. Psaki gave a Slimy answer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/world/snowden.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)think we are stupid and they are so much smarter by using 'vague' language, but if someone won't give a direct answer to a question, I assume the answer is 'yes'.
I'm sure the European puppets in Spain and Italy will take the fall, they owe us, I'm sure.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Look at the title of this thread. It boils down to: Maduro/Morales/Correa/Fernandez said it, I believe it, that settles it. That's the attitude you will get and are getting. Any time spent trying to combat that sort of silliness is time wasted.
I've been staring at the State Dept's twitter feed. Zip on this. Know why? They've got way better things to do with their time than deal with these delusions. My own timeline, which is filled with folks from all over the world who deal with all sorts of things, lit up with this for about five minutes yesterday, and that was it. Nothing today, except for one joking reference to these presidents. No one thinks it's worth their time to even think about it. I come here, and 60% of the threads are about this nonsense.
Let's for instance look at Portugal. Their government has been trying to handle a seriously bad economic situation. Here's what you get when you search for the latest news from Portugal:
- Formula found to continue coalition
- Portugal battles to ease crisis and market pressure
- Portugal's foreign minister quits
- Scramble to avert second bailout
Not even Portugal's foreign minister bothered to give this more than five minutes' thought. He had way more serious problems to worry about. You'd never know that from looking at the front page of DU.
This place is rapidly becoming a bad joke.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You're absolutely correct.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Welcome to Infowars 2.0.
Number23
(24,544 posts)You're right, not nearly the source of so much storm und drang as a few special folks in GD are trying to make it out to be, but it is a news item that people are discussing.
Any time spent trying to combat that sort of silliness is time wasted.
On that bit and the rest of your post, I couldn't agree with you more.
mick063
(2,424 posts)In fact, I hope the whole Southern Hemisphere does.
Then I hope the European trade talks becomes a circus. I want to see footage of French security sweeping hotel rooms for bugs.
We deserve the humiliation.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The Europeans who shut down his flight path are hypocritical wankers on surveillance, and gave been exposed as such.
Do you really think they want Obama to reveal their dirty laundry?
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)they are willing to dish.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the embassies down?
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Bend over and take the big dick of Freedom (tm) like a man! You wouldn't want us to have to bring freedom (tm) to yur whole country, now would you?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Right now he's just whining.
Just do it, Evo.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That is the reason for this massive gang surveillance-rape program in the first place.
It is our government that is over the top and out of control. And I am so sorry to say that.
The program has to go.
Has Obama lost control of the government? I cannot picture Obama deciding to stop the plane of the president of Bolivia from proceeding through air space and refueling without having to submit to a search.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)The implications worry me.
During the last Venezuelan elections, when there was so much US interference, Colombian paramilitaries, Maduro (and before him Chavez) pointed their fingers at Otto Reich and his merry band of neocons. The day before the Morales plane incident, I bookmarked this because it worried me.
Otto Reich and other neocons heavily involved in the recent attempts to destabilize Venezuela have been very busy lately. One of their contacts, Alek Boyd, is another one who's been busy. And the same journalists who were subtly misrepresenting Latin American events before have now gone all out, in unison, with no subtlety whatsover. Remember the recent articles by Rory Carroll that Correa was cooling on offering Snowden asylum? All lies and cleverly re-arranged, snipped quotations, with old stuff mixed in with the new. The videos of the interview Correa gave that snake, disproving those "shameful lies" have repeatedly been posted underneath the article and sent to the journalist who wrote them. He refuses to correct his story. Correa finally denounced him for it publicly. Meanwhile the US and UK presses run with the lies. I don't know who's running this show, I think it's too chaotic and unrefined for Obama.
Anyway, why is Otto Reich being dragged out to weigh in on Morales taking Snowden to Bolivia in his plane, the day before all hell breaks loose?
Is Edward Snowden Bound for Bolivia? Evo Morales Sure Seems to Hope So
by Eli Lake, Mac Margolis Jul 2, 2013 5:48 PM EDT
The Bolivian president says he’d be pleased to give the NSA leaker asylum. And since he’s in Moscow, he could even give him a lift.
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“Bolivia is one of the countries where we have some of the fewest pressure points in Latin America,” says Otto Reich, a former top American diplomat who has worked on Latin America for more than 30 years. “We have not had an ambassador in Bolivia in five years.”
[center] “He could just show up back home with Snowden and make a big splash.”[/center]
Bolivia has said it didn't receive an asylum request from Snowden. But for Morales himself, Snowden could provide a public-relations boost back home. A former Bolivian ambassador to Washington, Jaime Aparício Otero, said he wasn’t surprised Morales would hint that his government would grant Snowden asylum. “Granting asylum to someone like Snowden would guarantee him a place in the news cycle,” said Aparício. “He could just show up back home [on his presidential plane] with Snowden and make a big splash. Snowden might prefer to go to another country, but if he has no other possibility, who knows?”
A plus for Snowden of settling in La Paz: It would be very difficult for the U.S. to extradite him. The 1995 treaty between the two countries contains an exception for political offenses. This exception is assumed under international law to include “purely political” crimes like espionage. Last month, the Justice Department charged Snowden at first in secret with violating the Espionage Act by disclosing defense information.
...
Reich, the former American diplomat, says he thinks Morales might just be crazy enough to ferret Snowden to La Paz. “This guy is capable of harboring a Snowden,” he said. “It may also be that cooler heads in his government will prevail and say, ‘Wait a second, we have enough problems with America. Why are we doing this?’” Morales was scheduled to leave Moscow on Wednesday, according to Bolivia’s Ministry of Communication in La Paz.
Eli Lake is the senior national-security correspondent for Newsweek and The Daily Beast. He previously covered national security and intelligence for The Washington Times. Lake has also been a contributing editor at The New Republic since 2008 and covered diplomacy, intelligence, and the military for the late New York Sun. He has lived in Cairo and traveled to war zones in Sudan, Iraq, and Gaza. He is one of the few journalists to report from all three members of President Bush’s axis of evil: Iraq, Iran, and North Korea.
A longtime correspondent for Newsweek, Mac Margolis has traveled extensively in Brazil and Latin America. He has contributed to The Economist, The Washington Post, and The Christian Science Monitor, and is the author of The Last New World: The Conquest of the Amazon Frontier.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/02/is-edward-snowden-bound-for-bolivia-evo-morales-sure-seems-to-hope-so.html
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and have no meaningful diplomatic contacts, so he should shut the US embassy and save Bolivia some money by shutting down its embassy in the US and selling it.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)all of Latin America from any return to the old Kissenger/Reagan/Death Squad days when countries were on their own and easily targeted by Western Imperialism. We loved our dictators like Pinochet, but they are all gone now, many of them on trial, a bit late, but better late than never, for the human rights atrocities they perpetrated, often with US support, and even encouragement, against their own people.
Bolivia, as a member of the Alliance of States, is NOT operating alone now. The US will have to deal with all of those nations who have already met and issued a declaration condemning the treatment of Bolivia's President.
It won't be the first time a US embassy closes. I suspect that we will give Bolivia and the rest of the leaders of Latin America, what they are asking for.
It's not the old Cold War days anymore, although you'd never know it from some of our foreign policies eg, still supporting Right Wing Dictators while preaching 'democracy'.
No doubt the Europeans will be asked to take the fall on this one and they will, puppets that they have become. There is a price to pay when you give up your own sovereignty, as many of those European nations have. But the world will not be fooled, and neither will Latin America. They will do what is most beneficial for their interests. There's always China to do business with. As Correa said tonight, 'they are treating us like colonies'. Except those days are gone, too bad we've been so busy colonizing the ME or we might have notices the developments in Latin America.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to the US is a graduate of . . . The School of the Americas.
Why doesn't Evo shut down the embassy?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)torture people or have them tortured by some of our dictator friends, like the now 'former' Egyptian President, Mubarak, Karamov of Uzbekistan et al. Should I go on, since this is what you changed the topic to?
Another fun fact. We are no longer dealing with just one small, powerless Latin American nation. I like to keep discussions on topic whenever possible. THAT was the subject you raised, and to which I responded.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the USA over this?
Here's the list:
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)151st day going on in Gitmo right now, of supporting dictators and of torture? You did raise the subject and once again jumped to something else. How about we finish one of the discussions you raise as diversions before going on to your next diversion? My mind can't keep up with the constant diversion attempts.
But since you raised the School of the Americas, do you have any idea why that disgusting place is still operating in a democracy?
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Toothpaste, for 500 Alex!
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...I'm sorry. The correct answer would have been: [font size=5]BALLS[/font]
- But thank you for playing Mr. Kurovski. Jim, what parting gift do we have for our guest?
JIM: A DIY Drone Kit by K-Tel!!! (a smattering of applause)
[font size=1]* - Armaments sold separately after approved credit check.[/font]
It's not Genuine if its not a K-Tel {A Division of Boeing Corp.}....
And I was sitting on the answer the whole time.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)An alternate answer we were prepared to accept is: [font size=4]COURAGE[/font]
- As the two are often related.....
bike man
(620 posts)When the US stops the foreign aid money-flow, some degree of 'normalcy' will return.
Bolivia expelled USAID from one of the largest coca growing regions in 2008. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35751.htm
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)agents of the narco smugglers. Their head of narcotics trafficking prevention pleaded guilty to smuggling cocaine.