Morales shouldn't make threats--he needs to take action.

[geek tragedy]

He's said there's no point in having a US Embassy in Bolivia.

Fine. Close it down then. He should also shut down the Bolivian embassy in D.C. and sell it.

There aren't even ambassadors at this point. They don't give a shit what Obama thinks, and virtually no one in the USA and its government gives a shit what he thinks.

He's talking a very big game. But, fiery rhetoric only goes so far. If the USA is 1/10th as bad as he says it is, he should limit diplomatic functions to ministerial consular functions like passports and visas.

Failing to act on this threats will make him look weak and cause people to view him as a man who is all talk on the international stage.

Talking about action is a piss poor substitute for action.

[ProSense]

1. Empty threats are one thing

the "fiery rhetoric" is another. It will draw attention to the situation, but eventually he's going to have to tone it down or act on it.

[geek tragedy]

4. Morales has to close the embassy to retain any

credibility. Honestly, there's not really a point to having full diplomatic relations, so just do it.

[MADem]

52. Well, he could always resort to physical contact...keep your eye on Number Ten!

[CakeGrrl]

2. And speaking of putting money where one's mouth is,

when will those who now repeatedly insist that we're in the clutches of an authoritarian police state that without doubt will torture the likes of Snowden with no possibility of a fair trial, follow Egypt's example?

When will they get from behind their keyboards and take this country back?

[SidDithers]

3. Repeating what I think is the key to good parenting seems appropriate here...

"Don't threaten a punishment you're not willing to carry out"



Sid

[geek tragedy]

5. Or, in gunfighting:

If you're going to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.

--Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez.

[SidDithers]

6. There are times that I think parenting is just like gunfighting...

Sid

[Pretzel_Warrior]

8. lol

[KittyWampus]

51. LOL!

[Cleita]

7. He's not making threats. He is showing indignation for the way he was treated.

I think he wants to get rid of the American presence because he doesn't trust us. Look we tried unsuccessfully to stage a coup in Venezuela to take Chavez out. It failed, but I'm sure Morales knows he could be next. This is an opportunity for him to lessen the American presence there. Other embassies would step up to act as liaisons for the US as happens in other countries that we don't have ambassadors in any more. I think it's a bad move for us though so we need to meet with him and smooth this over. That means our diplomats must meet him as a head of state and treat him with the dignity his office deserves. We don't seem to be doing that.

If this were France or some other European country we have more respect for we would do that so we must do that with Bolivia too.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

9. are you frickin serious? what does Bolivia have that is so important to the U.S.?

Really? Can you in any world of yours dream a scenario where Bolivia has the upper hand here? uhh...no.

[Cleita]

10. Tin, copper, oil, coal. Shall I go on?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. and we can't get that elsewhere? I think we can.

the trouble about South American countries is they are still stuck on mainly economies focused on natural resources and crops. those are commodities widely available on the world market.

[rdking647]

13. we dont need their oil

we have more than enough coal
frankly we can get anything bolivia sends us from other places. if bolivia were to shut off trade to the us it would hurt them more than us

[Cleita]

15. I didn't say we needed it. They don't want us to have it any way.

I was just answering what Bolivia has.

[bike man]

20. Coca. nt

[Scurrilous]

83. LOL

My first thought too.

[caseymoz]

21. What's the difference between what you're saying

and what a Neo-Con would say?

But if almost all South and Central American countries stand with him, it will hurt us economically, especially when much of the rest of the world is pissed at us for this whole surveillance thing. They can throw out our business continent-wide and deal with China and Russia instead.

Now, that's not hurting us in terms of shooting war, but consumers will say ouch. Especially if much of the rest of the world rallies behind them.

[treestar]

65. I thought we were such bullies

So how can S and C America threaten our economy without seeming the same?

[caseymoz]

85. If we insult them enough

they won't care how it seems.

[cali]

25. it'sz not just Bolivia.

[galileoreloaded]

63. statements like this make it seem like the Bushies have experienced a resurgence...as dems.

freaking ponderous.

[RainDog]

87. truly. it's a fucking joke

After decades of military coups supported by the U.S., after supporting outright fascists in those nations... Robert Parry has done some great reportorial work on this entire "Lost History."

then some asshole on this site creates a post that could've come out of the mouth of Rush Limbaugh.

[geek tragedy]

12. If he wants to get rid of the American presence, he should do it.

Not talk about doing it.

We don't need to smooth this over with him. We don 't need anything from Bolivia.

And, given that Morales is anti-USA and wants to rid Bolivia of our presence their, there's not much point in pretending there's a productive relationship to be had.

No point in either side trying to pretend otherwise. Close the respective embassies (ambassadors expelled 5 years ago) and be done with it.

[Cleita]

14. It would not be in our best interests to do that.

We are a nation that can't just run around slamming doors shut because we think we can. Diplomacy is just that. It's coming to an agreement with a nation whether hostile or not so we can have maneuverability in those parts of the world. In Europe and Asia we have military bases. In South America we don't. We have problems there with drug cartels. We need all the access we can get just in case incidents happen like kidnappings or hostage taking. Much of South America is still wild with rugged terrain. It has some of the highest mountains, driest deserts and wettest tropical rain forests on the planet many of which are only navigable by primitive means. We can't afford too many enemies on that continent.

[ProSense]

16. Well,

"It would not be in our best interests to do that. We are a nation that can't just run around slamming doors shut because we think we can. Diplomacy is just that."

...the whole "diplomacy" stuff is hitting a snag, primarily because President Morales is taking innocuos statements and turning them into confrontational ones.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023172577#post4

[Cleita]

17. Yes, it's all his fault. Let's blame the victim here.

Morales did nothing wrong. We did everything wrong. All he was doing was returning to his country from a meeting in Moscow. Our paranoid NSA was the one who insisted Snowden was on the airplane when even though they had no proof.

[Tarheel_Dem]

27. "We did everything wrong"? "We"?

Where does that come from? Unless the earth shifted, this is still the US. He didn't refuel here.

[Cleita]

28. This is the most absurd rationalization I have read here yet. n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

32. Yours is obviously cracked, so I got you one of these....

You're welcome.

[geek tragedy]

18. Kidnappings? We should kiss Morales's ass

because Americans might be kidnapped and held hostage in remote areas of Bolivia!

Not very compelling.

[sibelian]

22. Well it might not make you feel good, I guess.

[Cleita]

23. Admitting your wrong and then doing the decent thing to make amends is not kissing ass. n/t

[Democracyinkind]

53. The same argument regularly cuts flack on DU when directed toward Obama. nt

[woo me with science]

57. Indeed. nt

[Cha]

19. Oh yeah, put up or shutup, Pres Morales.. he needs to held

accountable for his threats and accusations.

[cali]

24. well this op is supremely silly and says nothing. congrats on that

[dballance]

26. Yep, geek_tragedy seems to have undergarments in a wad because the US got called out for being bully

Then a bunch of other people followed the same route.

Why don't we have Obama and Morales meet in the playground after school today?

That's about the level of intelligence on this thread.

[Pholus]

33. I especially like the "why don't you revolt" comment above.

By goodness the convergence of this crowd's rhetoric with that of the neocons is nearly complete.

Exactly how far are some of the responses from Ann Coulter?

“Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America’s self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant.”

-- Ann Coulter

[treestar]

64. A lot of the "liberals" on DU today make Ann C. look correct.

I well remember the right wingers saying we hated America.

the willingness to assume we are guilty here while giving a complete pass to every European country involved is telling.

Or the comments of "good" when someone posts something like that we are disliked, the Germans dislike us (why we are supposed to worry about that I don't know); etc.

[Pholus]

69. Wonderful, we are ALL neocons now.

Some just embrace that more than others due to their preference for team colors over actual right or wrong.

Pathetic.

[treestar]

77. black and white thinking here

I don't know if it is a right wing thing, which I used to believe, or as now, an extremist thing.

You think you are so clever with this Ann Coulter thing, but you've only proved you are incapable of anything beyond black and white thinking.

People are not pathetic because they don't see things that way. And if you look like an Ann Coulter parody of a left winger, that's not anyone else's fault.

[Pholus]

79. I smell desperation.

Only one of us echos her words.

[cali]

76. wow. now you think Ann coulter is right. about anything.

unbelievable comment. no wait, it's from YOU. All too believable.

[treestar]

78. It is telling that some supposed liberals

sound like a right winger's parody/exaggeration of what left wingers are.

Why you blame me for that is beyond me - well, I guess you like to blame people.

[cali]

81. some sound like a parody of the blindered partisan

who can't see anything beyond unwavering loyalty no matter the facts.

why you blame me for that is beyond me- well, I guess you like to run around blaming people and putting words in their mouths that they didn't utter.

[geek tragedy]

45. Why doesn't he close the US embassy? nt

[geek tragedy]

48. If Morales believes what he says he'll close the embassy.

He's not going to get an apology from Obama, so where does he go from here but closing the embassy?

The world is not impressed by words. Not from Obama, not from Morales.

[Tarheel_Dem]

29. People who scream about our trade agreements, should love this. We cut off aid,

cut off trade, cut off diplomatic relations. Problem solved. Go for it, Evo. I dare ya. The only thing they want from us is our $$$$ anyway. If they can keep their people pissed at the mean old US, they never have to accept any real responsibility for the murders, kidnappings, drug cartels, corrupt elected officials, and all around suckiness that is Latin America.

Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world.

[cali]

31. wow. your xenophobia is flying its disgusting, bigoted colors.

your post won't last long- hopefully.

It's an embarrassment.

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. Alert away. Your reflexive anti-Obama crap doesn't fly with me.

Talk about embarrassing.

[cali]

38. sorry, but that's horse shit.

I post anti-specific policies, NOT anti President Obama crap.

[Forgot10Hiro]

94. So it's all about selling your soul to defend one poilitician.

Instead of defending democracy... Shame.

[Tarheel_Dem]

96. My "soul" is quite intact, thank you. My "shame" is what DU has become.

This used to be a place where Democrats were welcomed, and the mission was pretty clear. It's all fuzzy now....

Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

I could care less what you or any other DU'er thinks of me as a person, but when an alleged (d)emocratic site becomes the premiere opposition research site against the (D)emocratic president, I have to wonder what it all means. While you guys pretend to be apoplectic about your perceived loss of your constitutional rights (sounding more & more like the Teanutters), state legislatures across the country are screwing us all over, but folks like you want to keep attention focused on any & all things Obama. It's a neat little trick, but some of us have it figured out.

And then there are the run of the mill shit stirrers, from all across the internet, who are directed here merely to sow divisions.

"Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

So, I'll thank you to leave my "soul" alone. In my "soul", I am a Democrat, and no one, will ever make me ashamed of that fact; nor will they make me ashamed of my (D)emocratic President; not the Greens, the Paulites, the Naderites, the Snowdenites, the Republicans, nor the Greenwald Assanganistas. Remember that.

If your first impulse upon hearing a news story is to figure out how it can be spun to negatively impact the (D)emocratic president, then what is the point of this site anymore, except chatter? When members jump up & down with glee at news that the president's poll numbers have dropped, or when he's been "put in place" by some foreign entity, what is that about? I'm aware that there's a very real strain of anti Americanism around the globe, and even domestically, the Tsarnaev Brothers reminded us of that. But when a (d)emocratic board erupts in cheers at any potential opportunity for the president to be embarrassed, one has to ask "What is the Point"?

[2ndAmForComputers]

95. The fact that you posted that xenophobic, racist sentence...

...makes it irrelevant whether you're pro- or anti-Obama. It trumps it.

"Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world."

YOU.

WROTE.

THAT.

AND.

MEANT.

IT.

[nomorenomore08]

105. I don't think she was going after Obama, but "Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world."

That is an incredibly over-broad and quite offensive generalization. Are they defined merely by their socials ill? Are we?

[treestar]

66. If somebody said that about the US, you'd be all

"good" and "so true."

Why can't other countries be called out? They do have problems with drug cartels in South America. Only our faults are to be discussed?

[cali]

70. I certainly would not. It's disgusting to put words in my mouth

that I'd never say or even think of saying. Truly contemptible and it says everything about your character.

post one link to my ever having said anything like that.

your habit of putting your words in the mouths of others- and it is a habit- is truly vile. shows exactly what YOU are.

[treestar]

75. you have said a lot of vile things

why are you always making things personal?

Why is it that upsetting that not everyone agrees with you. I notice you are very angry, using many F bombs. Are you angry at all of us or just those who don't agree with your every word?

[cali]

80. omg. cognitive dissonance has a hold on YOU.

YOU are sure as hell not one to talk. unfuckingbelievable. I like the word fuck Got a problem with that? too fucking bad, tree

[Union Scribe]

35. "People who scream about our trade agreements"

You mean liberals? Union supporters? Fair trade advocates? People concerned with workers' rights? I think you're revealing more than you mean to here.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. All of the above. And I never reveal more than I mean to.

[Pholus]

40. Good advice considering the wholesale surveillance of the population going on right now.

[randome]

43. The NSA saw you post that.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Pholus]

44. Ha. Ha. Authoritarian wit is soooo dry. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Oooohhhh. You've been hit with the "A" word. How do you feel, you big ol' meanie you?

[arely staircase]

102. authoritarian, totalitarian, tyranny, etc.

are becoming such clichés around here. they need new material.

[Tarheel_Dem]

104. It's meant to tamp down any deviation from their agenda. But I say, Good luck with that!

[flamingdem]

61. Oh mah lawd

[cali]

37. shame, shame, shame on the jury 3-3

[Tarheel_Dem]

41. Bwwaahhh!

[Enrique]

55. that is supremely ignorant

just so you know. Maybe your love of Obama will comfort you in your ignorance.

[Tarheel_Dem]

56. Why? Your hatred of him sure hasn't seemed to "comfort" you.

[Rex]

73. Thanks for outing yourself once again!

How you survive here is a mystery to me.

[Tarheel_Dem]

82. Right back atcha. Here. Maybe you need one of these as well? Yours is obviously cracked.

[Bluenorthwest]

89. "Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world"? That's some xenophobic racist and vulgar

crap to say with a happy face emoticon and photos of Obama and Biden as some sort of mask. Unbelievable. Should not be allowed in this community which has Latino members.

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. This community has black members as well. Although it doesn't seem to have been an issue for some.

[Number23]

91. Wow. Tarheel, I love you but I have spent ALOT of time in Latin America

And Latin people are some of the best people in the world. They have been screwed over by European colonialists for centuries and have still created beautiful cultures that are not without their flaws but are still beautiful. I have lots of Latin friends.

The difference between so many Latins and so many DUers is that they are proud of the culture and their heritage. They are some of the smartest people in the world and they actually believe in DOING something as well as being appreciative and thankful for what they have and what they have accomplished. Truth be honestly told, I think alot of Latinos would feel the same way about the folks of GD as you and I do and for exactly the same reasons.

[Bonobo]

30. Best passive aggressive post of the day! nt

[Savannahmann]

39. Have you seen the nations that are standing with Bolivia so far?

Argentina, Venezuela, and many others signed the declaration demanding an answer.

Do you realize that we are the aggressors in this situation? We are Germany of the 1914 era. We are Japan of the 1930's, we are America during Veracruz, we are the ones in the wrong, and this daring people to do things is always a bad idea.

We blasted Bush for his dare to the Terrorists to bring it on. We denounced him loudly for his braggadocio. Yet your suggest takes Bush and pushes it to a level of arrogance we haven't seen since the worst era's of our history.

Even if you ignore oil, and other materials we get from the region, think about this. Rubber. Lots of rubber comes from South America, and that Rubber can go to other nations with a minor loss in profit for the region. Just kick the Americans out. Exxon would lose hundreds of millions of dollars if the South American countries nationalized the American and European holdings. Then you would be shouting that we need to invade. That would be insane, no other way to describe it.

At this point, the smartest move would be a little humility, but for some reason, we are as incapable of humility as Bush was. More's the tragedy, because that humility would go a lot further in world opinion than swagger and posturing. Especially when we can't back it up. Oh we could bomb La Paz, and the entire continent would be arranged against us. Are we going to bomb them all?

[geek tragedy]

46. So, you're equating inconveniencing Evo with the Rape

of Nanking.

Well played.

[Scurrilous]

84. Well at least she hasn't compared us to the Nazis.

Yet.

[brooklynite]

54. We are Germany of the 1914 era?

C'mon, you can do better than that. Based on what I've ready lately we MUST be Germany of the 1939 era.

[Buzz Clik]

42. Morales has been disappointing -- following the "US is satan" schtick of so many third worlders.

He's rapidly assuming "clown" persona.

[temmer]

47. geek tragedy shouldn't tell Morales what to do -

instead he should show some respect to a highly popular left-wing indigenous politician.

We are on a leftist discussion board here, aren't we?

[cali]

50. he's not obligated to show respect for him. the op is about as silly as it gets

but the op doesn't have to "show some respect to a highly popular left-wing indigenous politician.".

[WatermelonRat]

60. I was under the impression we were on a liberal/progressive discussion board.

Contrary to what Tea Partiers believe, they're not the same thing.

[treestar]

67. LOL

Do you see no irony in that post?

[flamingdem]

72. This is not a leftist discussion board, it's Democratic Underground

I can see why you got that idea though

[Art_from_Ark]

92. It started out as a left-of-center discussion board

When Skinner went on C-SPAN to promote this site, he said he was looking for "leftists and other progressives" to join, and in those days right-wingers were immediately tombstoned.

[OilemFirchen]

58. While I agree with the sentiments of the OP...

here is how this will play out:

Obama will phone Morales and smooth things over. That's what Obama does, and he does it well.

After a week or so of overheated rhetoric, diplomatic relations with SA will return to their normal, albeit tenuous state.

A loud minority of DU will claim the Morales has been duped or paid off and will denounce him as yet another puppet of the regime.

Rinse, of course, lather, it goes without saying, and repeat ad nauseum.

[treestar]

68. I agree.

And Obama even shouldn't, but that is indeed how he rolls.

[flamingdem]

71. Yes, and Obama may improve relations along the way

as did Biden with Pres. Correa of Ecuador. Why not make lemonade from a lemon.

Even if it disturbs the Emoprogs!

[LordGlenconner]

59. You're being very direspectful

By telling him what to do.

[galileoreloaded]

62. you show that guy how to rattle sabers dude! your the best at it! nt

[Rex]

74. USA USA USA!!!

[Benton D Struckcheon]

86. A few points of fact

1. The last US ambassador was expelled back in 2008.
2. USAID was just recently told to pack up and leave.

We don't actually have any relations with Bolivia at this point. Morales' statement on this was I'm sure meant for domestic consumption. The US State Dept has expended literally zero time on any of his statements. Because that's about what they merit.

[geek tragedy]

88. We were on the way to restoring full relations back in 2011.

Obviously, that was never a serious threat to happen.

Morales really doesn't have any cards left to play.

[Doctor_J]

93. You've identified one major problem with the current US admin

Talking about action is a piss poor substitute for action.

Amen!

[bluedigger]

101. Mostly intended for rallying internal support.

The US Government actually listens to a very small club of nations, and Bolivia ain't part of the club. They know that just as well as we do.

[David__77]

103. I don't think so.

Better to maintain a US presence - an isolated US presence against which to rally.