Red, Divided and Blue Fly This Independence Day

[silvershadow]

It seems entirely revealing, if dispiriting, that the days before the July Fourth holiday showed Red America and Blue America pulling apart at an accelerating rate.

Of all of our national holidays, Independence Day is the one most intimately rooted in our common history and shared experience. Yet this year it arrives against a background of polarization, separation, and confrontation in the states and Washington alike. With municipal politics as the occasional exception, the pattern of solidifying agreement within the parties—and widening disagreement between them—is dominating our decisions at every level.

On almost all of our major policy choices, the common thread is that the election of 2012 did not "break the fever" of polarization, as President Obama once hoped it might. Last November, Obama became only the third Democrat in the party's history to win a majority of the popular vote twice. But congressional Republicans, preponderantly representing the minority that voted against Obama, have conceded almost nothing to his majority—leaving the two sides at a stalemate. Meanwhile, beyond the Beltway, states that lean Democratic and those that lean Republican are separating at a frenetic pace.

Consider a few recent headlines. The Supreme Court decision upholding the lower-court invalidation of California's Proposition 8 restored gay marriage in the nation's largest state. It also capped a remarkable 2013 march for gay marriage through blue states, including Delaware, Minnesota, and Rhode Island (with Illinois and New Jersey possibly joining before long). The consensus is solidifying fast enough that 2014 could see several blue-state Republican gubernatorial candidates running on accepting gay-marriage statutes as settled law. Former California Lt. Gov Abel Maldonado, a likely 2014 GOP gubernatorial contender who this week reversed his earlier opposition to support gay marriage, may be an early straw in that breeze.

(more at link)
http://www.nationaljournal.com/columns/political-connections/red-divided-and-blue-fly-this-independence-day-20130703
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I thought we could consider this today, instead our own differences here, such as they are.

[YeahSureRight]

1. We would ALL be better off as a people if we went our seperate ways

If separating was a legal option, IMHO it should be, It would have happened already ready. It is long past time to go our separate ways we will never really be united as a nation ever again.

With each passing day I have less in common with the people in red states and more in common with people in other counties. When I travel in the USA there as parts that I have been too where I ask myself am I really in America?


Staying as one nation is becoming a waste of time, money and resources, well that is the way I see it and others will not agree and I know I am right and everyone else does too they just don't want to admit it.

If you think other wise good luck with remaining united.

[silvershadow]

4. If we ever did split, I know which side I'm going to. nt

[dgibby]

2. I find myself wondering what my ancestors

felt just before the Civil War. Wonder if it was anything like I'm feeling now. Sad and frightening times we're living in.

[silvershadow]

3. Yes. The civil war was brother against brother, neighbor against neighbor. Your comments rang

poignant to me, as I have often pondered that too.. It is, indeed, worse than anyone will admit in most quarters.

[Skidmore]

5. Which is why I wonder why

anyone would be encouraging further divisiveness and not working constructively to fix the issues this nation has. Encouraging strife will not get us the solutions any of us want. After all is said and done, there is a lot of common ground that must be cleared and tilled. It's not about sides, but about the collective good of the nation and I will always stand and work with those who are seeking the best possible solutions for the most people.

[YeahSureRight]

10. So what common ground is that exactly?

Would love to see what people think is common ground today.

[Skidmore]

11. I think we have to break it back to basics and start in our own communities.

Build upward. The reality teevee show created by retail politics at the national level has been destructive. Go back to basics. Find what you and your neighbors, townspeople, and county need. I would endorse some of the neighborhood meets that started with such promise. Functioning coalitions need to be built with the common good in mind. What can be done about infrastructure? For example, that is an immediate concern for our little unincorporated village of 200 souls as our sewer system needs upgraded. When something needs to be addressed, we get together as a group and leave political parties at the door. How much of what we need for our individual communities could be resolved by the agreement to leave the parties at the door and focus on how to best address the most good for the most people locally?

People complain about politicos, ward bosses, svengalis like Rove, and the effects of Citizen United. Many, however, are willing to step back and let the big guys' money solve their problems. Now when we meet in town meeting, about 60 households will be stepping up to repair the sewer and decide rates. Repair costs will be split between households with reduced amounts, if any, collected from our elderly. Sometimes, it means that the men of the village set aside a work day and do the repairs themselves, depending on the issue at hand. We don't vote on who is on the sewer committee, people step up as others rotate out of the committee every three years. It is nice because no one gets settled into calling all the shots. What does happen is that we maintain our infrastructure. This sort of cooperation happens across a whole gamut of issues. But we talk to one another. Even people who sometime have personal grudges will show up at meetings and participate civilly. It seems to me that operating in smaller units breaks up power jams upstream.

I just don't think that we can't find a way to work together and that we can redefine the national government by understanding what we can best do in our own locals. Perhaps we could maintain the safety net for a long time if the type of sweat equity we could put in our own communities was realistic and well focused. Perhaps we wouldn't be reading about cars falling through streets and bridges collapsing so often.

Civil war is not needed, especially over the false dichotomy of political claptrap being fed to the nation by those who are cranked out of universities to do this type of hired gun work.

[dgibby]

7. My family was divided.

One g.grandfather fought for the Union, 2 for the South. I have letters written by my Union g.grandfather and g.grandmother while he was serving.

They had 6 children and she was pregnant when he joined. They didn't want to secede from the Union, and were living in the section of Va that later became W.Va.

While he was away, she had a large farm to manage and the children to care for. In one week's time, her father and 2 of the children died from "bloody flux" My g.grandfather was critically ill with Typhoid Fever and couldn't leave camp to attend the funerals.

My 2 Southern g.grandfather's were both injured at the Battle of Cold Harbor near Richmond, Va. They were dirt poor, never owned slaves or land. I never could figure out why they fought, and because both of them were mostly illiterate, they left no paper trail to explain their reasoning. I suspect they were pretty upset when the Union troops burned the Courthouse and most of the farms, so that might have been a motivating factor.

Both sides of my family suffered enormously, and no one profited, as is the case for most poor and middle class folks.

I find myself more and more convinced that the rift between right and left is going to split the country once again, but I doubt we'll survive intact this time, and I'm not sure we should, though it would break my heart.

I do know that I wouldn't want to live under Republican rule again. Living in Va. where the government is completely controlled by the GOP is frightening enough. I seriously doubt we'd survive as a democracy or representative republic; more likely a theocracy or oligarchy-or maybe a combo of the two. Regardless, it wouldn't be a safe place for the poor, minorities, or women.

[YeahSureRight]

6. I have some old family letters from the Civil War and why they fought for the North

and what they thought of war. They joined and fought not to keep the union but to free an enslaved people. If slavery was not around and the South left they would have just waved at them and said good riddance.

They did not like war and they were horrified by it and what men do to each other in battle but to them it was worth everything they endured to free a people who never should have been in bondage to begin with.

The ones that came before me fought for a cause bigger then themselves and they were willing to die supporting that cause which is something very few are willing to do anymore today.

[dgibby]

8. I have letters, too.

As I said above, I have no idea why my southern g.grandfathers fought, but my Union ggf did not want to see the country divided and he joined right after the 2nd Battle of Bull Run.

IIRC, my "Johnny Rebs" were drafted, so maybe they didn't want to fight, but had to. Sure did ruin their lives. Both of them were disabled for life due to wounds suffered in the war.

We've had family members serving in every war since then, including me, although I was never "in country". I was slated for the Navy Hospital at Da Nang, but got sent to Puerto Rico instead. I thought I was going to have to deploy in Desert Storm, but spent that one at the Navy Hospital in Charleston, SC, then retired in '91 before someone could get us into another one.

Sure do hope I'm not alive to see another Civil War. I'm too old to serve and too tired to run.

[YeahSureRight]

9. I have always had family in military service even pre dating America's formation

I wish we had more letters it would be interesting to read the thoughts of my family and what motivated them to serve at the time. Very few letters exist from those that did serve. Most are pretty boring and very similar to the ones I wrote when on active duty. The oldest we have are the Civil War ones we do have a family letter taking about how a cousin was hurt during the la guerre de la conquête aka the French and Indian War but would still be ok to work the farm.

The ones from WWI, WWII are really boring crap like it sucks here and how they want to be home and what is going on at home that sort of junk the same boring crap I wrote. The best letter well mostly pictures are the ones taken by my cousin in Nam on liberty, no pictures of war but of the interesting night life! As a teen it was hot stuff but we also did have the internets. Another cousin who went to Gulf 1 and 5 tours of Iraq/Afgan took video of combat he was in scaring the crap out of his mother when he posted it.

I do not want to see a civil war either but I also no longer think we will nor need to be united any more.