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cali

(114,904 posts)
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 05:55 AM Jul 2013

Context: Even if you think Morales is a "big baby" and being hysterical

do you understand why so many South American countries were quick to come to his side over the plane incident? Do you have any sense of the context within which the outrage is taking place? The U.S. has an ugly history in Latin America that has NOT gone down the memory hole. It is present and pervades U.S. relations with many countries in the region. You may think "amigo" Morales is behaving in a ridiculous manner over this, that it's nothing, that the U.S. has no need to deny its involvement or apologize for its involvement (not that that's going to happen) but this is turning into an international incident involving more than Bolivia, and the U.S. will have to address it.

During the Cold War era, the United States feared the spread of communism and, in some cases, overthrew democratically elected governments perceived at the time as becoming left-wing or unfriendly to U.S. interests.[1] Examples include the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, the 1964 Brazilian coup d'état, the 1973 Chilean coup d'état and the support of the Nicaraguan Contras. The '70s and '80s saw a shift of power towards corporations, and a polarization of the political election systems of many of the Latin American nations.[citation needed]

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_States_relations

http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-interventions-in-latin-american-021/

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sibelian

(7,804 posts)
1. pf! don't even LEGITIMISE criticisms of Morales by opposing them.
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:00 AM
Jul 2013

He's the president of a sovereign nation who has been treated like a common criminal. All attempts to re-cast his response stem from quivering, wincing, flinching self-absorption. It's a nothing more than a silly trick worthy of Bachmann and Beck.

Holding somebody against their will, flinching when they object and then prancing about like teenagers saying "oooooo, he CRITICISED me, what's wrong with HIIIM" is nothing more than craven cowardice.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
2. I honestly think that it's important to put the outrage felt by many
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:02 AM
Jul 2013

in South American countries, into context.

JimboBillyBubbaBob

(1,389 posts)
14. Well said.
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 08:49 AM
Jul 2013

The treatment of a sovereign in this incident is another example of the big kid getting his way.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
3. I worked in Chile in 2002-2003
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:17 AM
Jul 2013

and I saw 1st hand that some people were still upset at what Kissinger and the CIA did to them in 1973.
Most of the Chileans were extremely nice to me once they got to know me, especially after I told them that I didn't vote for Bush.
The people, for the most part, are actually shy, that's why it surprised me one day when a 19 year old waitress told me she knew the secret of life. She said that smart people know that they are stupid, but stupid people don't know they are stupid, and Bush is stupid, completely out of character for her to say that.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
4. "were still upset"? Gee, one would think that the HUGE time span of 30 years would make them all
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:22 AM
Jul 2013

forgive and forget!

GIGANTIC *SARCASM* TAG HERE.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
5. Morales is not a "big baby" and being hysterical. His reaction to this
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:25 AM
Jul 2013

is more than justified. I realize that you are just quoting others and not saying that yourself. But to treat a head of state this way is unconscionable. And then Snowden wasn't even on the plane. I had thought that our relations with Latin America would improve when this administration came into power. But it doesn't seem to be happening and that's too bad. Meanwhile China's influence in the region continues to grow.

Richard D

(8,754 posts)
7. Imagine for just a second...
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:44 AM
Jul 2013

The amount of outrage and retaliation that would occur if the same thing had been done to Airforce One.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
8. I'm afraid that those spinning the ridiculous stories
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:46 AM
Jul 2013

and mocking President Morales and other leaders of South American countries who have rallied to his side, can't imagine that. That's part of the problem, I think.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
9. Forcing down the Bolivian president's plane was an act of piracy
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:50 AM
Jul 2013

Imagine the aircraft of the President of France being forced down in Latin America on "suspicion" that it was carrying a political refugee to safety - and not just any refugee but someone who has provided the people of the world with proof of criminal activity on an epic scale.

Imagine the response from Paris, let alone the "international community", as the governments of the West call themselves. To a chorus of baying indignation from Whitehall to Washington, Brussels to Madrid, heroic special forces would be dispatched to rescue their leader and, as sport, smash up the source of such flagrant international gangsterism. Editorials would cheer them on, perhaps reminding readers that this kind of piracy was exhibited by the German Reich in the 1930s.

The forcing down of Bolivian President Evo Morales's plane - denied air space by France, Spain and Portugal, followed by his 14-hour confinement while Austrian officials demanded to "inspect" his aircraft for the "fugitive" Edward Snowden - was an act of air piracy and state terrorism. It was a metaphor for the gangsterism that now rules the world and the cowardice and hypocrisy of bystanders who dare not speak its name.

In Moscow for a summit of gas-producing nations, Morales had been asked about Snowden who remains trapped in Moscow airport. "If there were a request [for political asylum]," he said, "of course, we would be willing to debate and consider the idea." That was clearly enough provocation for the Godfather. "We have been in touch with a range of countries that had a chance of having Snowden land or travel through their country," said a US state department official.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/forcing-down-the-bolivian-president-s-plane-was-an-act-of-piracy

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
11. Remember Panama, we wanted a Canal there
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:56 AM
Jul 2013

And we were going to have it even if we had to rip the territory out of another nation, and create a new country. Panama was part of Columbia until 1903, when with our backing, they declared independence from Columbia, and became a vassal state to us.

Then there is the Wilson era, when those silly Brown people wouldn't do what Wilson who knew better wanted them to do.

Find a time when we were not strong arming and pushing South America around. I thought we had finally reached that point, but unfortunately, it looks like the practice is still the first thing we go to in even this modern era.

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