Glenn Greenwald: Top Officials Are Lying to Our Faces About Government Spying

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/glenn-greenwald



The NSA revelations continue to expose far more than just the ongoing operations of that sprawling and unaccountable spying agency. Let's examine what we have learned this week about the US political and media class and then certain EU leaders.

The first NSA story to be reported was our June 6 article which exposed the bulk, indiscriminate collection by the US Government of the telephone records of tens of millions of Americans. Ever since then, it has been undeniably clear that James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, outright lied to the US Senate - specifically to the Intelligence Committee, the body charged with oversight over surveillance programs - when he said "no, sir" in response to this question from Democratic Sen. Ron Wyden: "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"

That Clapper fundamentally misled Congress is beyond dispute. The DNI himself has now been forced by our stories to admit that his statement was, in his words, "clearly erroneous" and to apologize. But he did this only once our front-page revelations forced him to do so: in other words, what he's sorry about is that he got caught lying to the Senate. And as Salon's David Sirota adeptly documented on Friday, Clapper is still spouting falsehoods as he apologizes and attempts to explain why he did it.

How is this not a huge scandal? Intentionally deceiving Congress is a felony, punishable by up to 5 years in prison for each offense. Reagan administration officials were convicted of misleading Congress as part of the Iran-contra scandal and other controversies, and sports stars have been prosecuted by the Obama DOJ based on allegations they have done so.

[randome]

1. "...Clapper is still spouting falsehoods..."

And this means what exactly?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[cali]

2. what do you think it means?

I think it means that the Director of National Intelligence is lying to the American people. I think it means that we need to get a better grasp of surveillance programs. I think that the NSD needs to be held accountable for lying.

[cantbeserious]

4. Falsehoods - Polite Speech - For Lies

eom

[think]

8. The irony of cantbeserious replying to the OP's stated question is delicious

[cantbeserious]

5. See Source Article Here

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/01/this_man_is_still_lying_to_america/

Snip ...

Now, though, Clapper is wholly changing his story, insisting that his answer wasn’t a deliberate, carefully calibrated “least most untruthful” response; it was instead just a spur-of-the-moment accident based on an innocent misunderstanding. Indeed, as the Post reports, “Clapper sent a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee on June 21 saying that he had misunderstood the question he had been asked” and adding that “he thought Wyden was referring to NSA surveillance of e-mail traffic involving overseas targets, not the separate program in which the agency is authorized to collect records of Americans’ phone calls.” In his letter, Clapper says, “My response was clearly erroneous — for which I apologize,” and added that “mistakes will happen, and when I make one, I correct it.”

So Clapper first says it was a calculated move, and now he’s saying it was just an innocuous misunderstanding and an inadvertent error. With that, the public — and the Obama administration prosecutors who aggressively pursue perjurers — are all supposed to now breathe a sigh of relief and chalk it all up to a forgivable screw-up. It’s all just an innocent mistake, right?

Wrong, because in this crime, as Clapper’s changing story suggests, there remains a smoking gun.

Snip ...

[randome]

14. And this has been debated before. Why bring it up yet again?

Clapper was asked in a public hearing something about which he was sworn to secrecy. A Catch-22 position.

I don't hear much but murmuring from Congress. You would think that if they saw this the same way as you, they would be calling for his ouster, right?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Vinnie From Indy]

18. Wyden told Clapper he was going to ask that question of him

24hrs PRIOR to it being asked. Clapper could have asked the committee to hear his answer in closed session I believe. I think the forewarning by Wyden could cause Clapper problems.

[dsc]

32. actually it is even worse than that

He was also given opportunity to correct his answer afterwards.

[Enrique]

20. the "debate" consists of people like Greenwald reporting it

and everyone ignoring it.

And why should we be debating it? Perjury is a crime, how about prosecuting it?

[caseymoz]

56. The one percent see things differently.

And Congress is all the one percent. Look at their incomes and net worths. They'll go with what protects their interests. And the NSA surveillance is all about protecting their interests.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. It means Obama sends his flacks to lie to duly elected Democratic United States

Senators and thus to the American People from whom Obama derives any temporary powers he wields, the same reason Senators have the duty, power and right to question hired hands like Clapper. Clapper nor Obama have a shred of power that is not given them by the people, none at all. Clapper and Obama show contempt for Senators, for the People, and for the checks and balances that have kept this nation healthy for two centuries and change...

[fasttense]

58. Very well stated Bluenorthwest.

The only power they have is what we give them.

[bvar22]

34. Well, for those at DU STILL using Clapper's statements to defend their position...

...that Snowden/Greenwald were traitors just making stuff up to make Obama look bad,
for THOSE people,
it MEANS that their two weeks of frenzied posting at DU defending the government is[font size=3] In the Crapper with Clapper.[/font]

THAT is what it means....exactly.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

43. Once you get past the Snowden/Greenwald/Clapper names a simple question like

"Where do you stand on the NSA spying on US citizens(?)" makes them run pretty effectively.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3180665


It is curios that a 100k+ poster would be felled by a simple query from a poster with less than 3k.

[MNBrewer]

38. Well.... saying the "least untruthful" things he can???

LOL

[cantbeserious]

3. The Oligarchs Own The Politicians Via Campaign Contributions And In Return They Control Men Like Clapper

eom

[newfie11]

6. Scary and very true

[Waiting For Everyman]

7. "Then we come to the leaders of various EU states".

Then we come to the leaders of various EU states. These leaders spent the last week feigning all sorts of righteous indignation over revelations that the NSA was using extreme measures to spy indiscriminately not only on the communications of their citizens en masse but also on their own embassies and consulates - things they learned thanks to Edward Snowden's self-sacrificing choice to reveal to the world what he discovered inside the NSA.

But on Tuesday night, the governments of three of those countries - France, Spain and Portugal - abruptly withdrew overflight rights for an airplane carrying Bolivian President Evo Morales, who was attempting to fly home from a conference in Russia. That conduct forced a diversion of Morales' plan to Austria, where he remained for 13 hours before being able to leave this morning.

These EU governments did that because they suspected - falsely, it now seems - that Morales' plane was also carrying Snowden: the person who enabled them to learn of the NSA spying aimed at their citizens and themselves that they claim to find so infuriating. They wanted to physically prevent Bolivia from considering or granting Snowden's request for asylum, a centuries-old right in international law. Meanwhile, the German government - which has led the ritualistic condemnations of NSA spying that Snowden exposed - summarily rejected Snowden's application for asylum almost as soon as it hit their desks.

A 2013 report from Open Society documents that Spain and Portugal were among the nations who participated in various ways in rendition flights - ie kidnapping - by the US. In particular, the report found, "Spain has permitted use of its airspace and airports for flights associated with CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations." Similarly, "Portugal has permitted use of its airspace and airports for flights associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations." The French judiciary previously investigated reports that the French government knowingly allowed the CIA to use its airspace for renditions.

So these EU states are perfectly content to allow a country - when it's the US - to use their airspace to kidnap people from around the world with no due process. But they will physically stop a plane carrying the president of a sovereign state - when it's from Latin America - in order to subvert the well-established process for seeking asylum from political persecution (and yes: the US persecutes whistleblowers).

[Hubert Flottz]

10. Send Clapper to the crapper/cooler, for

Lying to Congress and the USA!

He thinks he's above the law, that nobody should be above, in the USA!

If he is "Above The Law" there is zero justice in the USA!

Look at the way Bill Clinton was trashed for lying about a blow job. I believe the spying on us all is far worse than what Bill Clinton Did or lied about doing. If our government has nothing to hide, why are they afraid to put Clapper under oath in a public hearing? Blaming it all on Bin Laden is so Quaint.

[gholtron]

11. Was this the next bomb shell that Greenwald was going to explode?

[byeya]

12. All this is an outgrowth of monopoly capitalism that owns key members of both parties, if indeed

there are two parties anymore.

[cantbeserious]

13. Too True - Agree Completely

eom

[Civilization2]

21. exactly,. if you have hooks into key personal in both parties then the distinction is moot.

corporate-military police state,. this is the intent.

[marmar]

15. k/r

[WillyT]

16. K & R !!!

[NorthCarolina]

17. K&R

[watoos]

19. So who or what is going to stop what is going on?

Let's just look at history, JFK talked about abolishing the CIA, and look where it got him. This monster is too big for the President and or Congress to stop it. It takes what is happening in Egypt to stop it.

[DeSwiss]

23. Let it go Glenn.....

...it should be clear to you by now that a lot of Americans seem to prefer sheeplehood. They's a-skeerd we'll just give ammonitions to Repukers who'll win the WH and accelerate away from this kinder, gentler Democratic Police State conversion process, into the definitely more aggressive, poorly-spelled TeaBaggery version of Police State conversion. One, that'll make everyone wear tri-corner hats with tea bags hanging from them on penalty of death.

Sides, they don't need no edumicatin' bout no conste2shunal amendments being violated. They wasn't usin' 'num much anyhow. Hell, some even think the fonding fadders was born in the 50s and that the country broke away from China and was founded in 1976!

But I want to thank you Glenn for all you've done, to help that poor homeless young man find airport lodging, and maybe an apartment in Iceland one day.

- I hear they have free ice and hot-water for every new Icelandic citizen who joins them by July 30th!

K&R

[xchrom]

24. !

[Hubert Flottz]

49. I've visited Rakeyourdick Iceland...

It was not a Purdy sight!

[DeSwiss]

51. Sounds painful too!

- But I guess erotic fetishes such as you describe gets them through the harsh, boring winters. Maybe that why they're trying to ban porn in Iceland. I'm sure Eddie thinks its probably just as well Iceland turned him down.....

[Hubert Flottz]

59. If you overshoot the runway in Rakeyourdick.

You could fall into an active volcano, or the iceberg infested sea.

I saw the biggest bottle of booze I've ever helt, felt, or smelt in Iceland. I guess that's what it takes to get through the winter months. The ice is free!

Edit...I've flown over Greenland a couple of times and it looks even more hostile to land mammals than Iceland. I think the booze comes in 55 gallon drums there.

[kentuck]

25. So?

We like our government to lie to us.

[baldguy]

26. Greenwald has nothing relevant to say on any subject.

[nashville_brook]

27. you wish.

Greenwald broke the story. he's ground zero for "relevant."

just b/c you're made uncomfortable with the material he's reporting on, doesn't make it irrelevant.

but i LURVE the lameness factor here. don't stop. please! continue.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

44. Are there any Democrats iin the room? Will they please stand up?

This place would be teeming with venom if this enlightenment had happened under BushCo.

And now?

Is there a smiley for a polarity shift?

[Warren Stupidity]

28. And there it is. Don't address the issue, attack the messenger.

[rhett o rick]

45. So you side with the lying Republicans Clapper and Mueller? nm

[DisgustipatedinCA]

47. I'm thinking a few million people disagree with you

But you float that thought--you can be its champion.

[HardTimes99]

52. Greenwald is irrelevant the way you can only hope to ever be - nt

[woo me with science]

29. K&R

[sabrina 1]

30. I wonder how many other lies Clapper told Congress as Director of Intelligence, (how did such a

right wing Republican get to hold that position in a Democratic Administration?) about funding for the Great War on Terror?

Considering he was a CEO of Booz Allen, which has received billions in funding to handle our 'security' (yes, scary isn't it, the Cororatization of Congress' duties for profit) he certainly has a motive to keep that funing pouring in to his former and probably future Corporate Bosses.

It is thoroughly disgusting what we are expected to accept as 'government' in this country. Great work as usual, from Greenwald. Showing the Corporate Media hacks, like Gregory, how journalism is done.

[questionseverything]

31. past booz allen

http://legalschnauzer.blogspot.com/2013/07/was-fiery-death-of-journalist-michael.html

[suffragette]

33. K&R

[FreeBC]

35. Clearly this NSA stuff isn't that important because Snowden is a jerk.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. "How is this not a huge scandal?"

Easy:

In 2003, Clapper, then head of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, attempted to explain the absence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq by asserting that the weapons materials were "unquestionably" shipped out of Iraq to Syria and other countries just before the American invasion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper

Does that answer your question?

[woo me with science]

39. Well, well, well.

Good memory. Good post.

[QC]

37. Who appointed that asshole, anyway? n/t

[MsPithy]

40. Prepare yourselves for shouting. Clapper lied to congress which is illegal

even if he was not under oath.

Shouting, to commence.

WHY DOES THE RULE OF LAW APPLY TO SNOWDEN AND NOT TO CLAPPER?

Please, I'm begging, please explain this to me.

[99Forever]

41. K&R

[Marr]

42. Don't worry-- whatever we haven't heard yet is surely Old News™.

[Uncle Joe]

46. It's for our own protection, if they told us the truth they would have to kill us,

meaning they would have to kill all the American People.

So it's for our own good, don't you see?

Thanks for the thread, xchrom.

[jazzimov]

48. Glen Greenwald is Lying to Our Faces About Government Spying.

There - fixed it for you.

[Kurovski]

53. How so?

Please explain.

Thank you.

Globbity..

[sibelian]

54. And he's a liar TOO?

ooo.

thanks.

EDITING MY THREAD

[blkmusclmachine]

50. They wouldn't lie to us,

again.

[KG]

55. governments lie. even the ones you love and support. like the sun rises in the east.

always have. always will. they worked hard to get into power. they will glibly lie to stay in power.

the denial of this fundamental truth here is somewhat disappointing but not unexpected.

[xchrom]

57. +1