ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 9, Friday, July 5, 2013

[GreenStormCloud]

Live feed, no commercial, no commentators: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/

Scroll down to the big picture of Z, click on the arrowhead, it will go to today's trial.

[GreenStormCloud]

1. Prosecution is expected to complete their case today. N/T

[darkangel218]

2. What happens after that?

[GreenStormCloud]

3. Defense gets their turn. N/T

[darkangel218]

7. Ah okay. thanks

[madaboutharry]

4. O'Mara is making a mistake.

He should have just passed on cross. He will get nothing out of this.

[avebury]

5. Agreed! nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. O'Mara and West love the sound of their voices too much to pass

Dear Lord - asking Sybrina if her "hope" is that Trayvon didn't cause his own death? TONEDEAF.

[Voice for Peace]

37. here is the video of her testimony

bravo

[Ruby the Liberal]

59. Thanks

It was even worse on the second listen.

[Blue_Roses]

173. good grief...

O'Mara is trying so hard to pin this on Trayvon that he is stumbling all over his words. Trayvon's mom was a great witness for the prosecution. She was solid in her testimony. The jury had to be touched by her response, especially if any are moms.

A mom knows her child 's voice, cries, laughs, etc.It's in our DNA!

[avebury]

6. You would hope that he had not done anthing to

contribute to his death?

Omara is a jackass!

[Voice for Peace]

38. she was an excellent witness

[HipChick]

9. The defense tried to get the mother to say that it was Trayvon faults that he was dead

[Blue_Roses]

174. That didn't seem to go over well

and it was stupid. O'Mara was trying so hard to pin this on Trayvon, that he was stumbling over himself.

[madaboutharry]

10. This line of questioning is unhelpful.

O'Mara is an ass.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Trayvon's brother's answers were consistent.

Where's the impeachment?

[GreenStormCloud]

13. I don't see it either.

Besides, he wasn't under oath when he talked to the reporter.

[Voice for Peace]

45. trayvon's brother's testimony today

[Voice for Peace]

58. an excellent witness.

defense is looking pretty ugly today.

[HipChick]

15. He is trying to paint TM as a thug,coming from a broken home and not being close to his brother..

If I was Sabrina I would have lost it on the stand

[davidpdx]

12. It will be interesting to see what the defense does

I'm 99.9% sure Zimmerman will not take the stand.

[femmocrat]

14. Kick

Sabrina Fulton is back on the stand.

[femmocrat]

16. What happened to Ms. Fulton?

Now the doctor who performed the autopsy is on the stand. I was only gone for a couple of minutes.

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. They asked her to identify the button Trayvon was wearing

and then excused her, there was no cross.

[femmocrat]

18. Thanks! nt

[femmocrat]

20. Did she leave the courtroom?

It's breaking my heart, watching his father sit through those autopsy photos.

[Ruby the Liberal]

23. Yes - before they called the ME.

She got off the stand and walked out right away. I wouldn't want to listen to this detail either if I were his Mom.

[HipChick]

19. He was still alive? So they could have helped with CPR but instead they were too busy taking picture

[femmocrat]

21. OMG, He was alive from 1 to 10 minutes after he was shot.

But because of the severity of the wound to the heart, there was no chance of survival, according to Dr. Bao.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Martin essentially bled out into his own lungs

Alive 1-10 minutes after the shot, but med exam says ZERO chance of surviving the 2 holes in his heart (front and back holes...just one shot, obviously).

[Voice for Peace]

24. I like this witness because he's pissing off the defense attorney.

He won't give ANY opinion about ANYTHING..

(the doctor who did Trayvon's autopsy)

[femmocrat]

25. He is very careful about his testimony.

Even describing the difference between "new" and "old" memory. He won't even show his notes to the attorneys! He doesn't trust those attorneys one bit.

[GreenStormCloud]

27. He has already helped the defense in two ways.

TM lived 1 to 10 minutes. Provides ample ability and time for TM to get up off of Z, take a few steps and collapse. Ability and reason to pull his hands back under him after Z pulled them out.

Distance of gun from TM's body when the shot was fired. Strongly supports narrative of TM on top, hoodie and sweatshirt hanging down when shot was fired from directly in front of TM.

[avebury]

28. Except I thought that I heard him clearly

state that he did not think that Trayvon moved after he was shot. If his lungs were filling up with blood it certainly would have impeded his ability to talk as well.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. Defense only needs a minute of life.

A few seconds of ability to speak and about thirty seconds of ability to move his arms is all they need.

[Just Saying]

32. So he moved after Zimmerman was on top of him?

When he held him face down and spread his arms?

I think there's a huge difference between being alive and being able to speak and/or stand up. Both take quite a bit of energy. Perhaps the prosecutor will ask if it's possible. I think most people will believe that a kid with 2 holes in his heart and lungs full of blood doesn't hop up and say things.

[GreenStormCloud]

36. Only movement required, at that point, is pulling his arms back to grab where it hurts.

He has already jumped off of Z, said something, taken a couple of steps and collapsed. Requires only a few seconds.

[uppityperson]

40. Yet Z says he spread TMs arms and held him down which must've taken those few seconds.

[GreenStormCloud]

44. According to the witness neighbor that came around the corner.

It was about 20 seconds when the neighbor came around the corner. Z got up. Still leaves some seconds for TM to pull his arms back.

Dr. Bao's testimony is what it is.

[TorchTheWitch]

166. No, the guy with the flashlight testified he never saw

Z on top of Martin at all. He testified that he first saw Z as Z was walking toward him with Z holding his cellphone to his ear. Z claims that he appeared while he was still sitting on Martin and asked him to help subdue him. He claims he did not get up off of Martin until the first officer arrived. However, the testimony of both the man with the flashlight and that officer was that neither one ever saw Z on top of Martin. The testimony of three other witnesses was that they saw Z pacing up and down while touching his head. One witness - the wife of the man with the flashlight - said that she saw him pace up and down three times before her husband arrived with the flashlight. Another said she saw Z pace in one direction before meeting up with the man with the flashlight when that man first rounded the corner. The Spanish speaking woman also testified that he was walking while touching his own head. All of them testified that Martin never moved.

What is far more relevant here is not whether or not Martin could have or did move his own arms beneath his body but that Z's story of the encounter with the man with the flashlight is entirely false according to that man with the flashlight, the first officer on the scene and all three of the witnesses he saw what Z was doing between the time of getting off Martin's body and when the man with the flashlight first arrived.

What is far more relevant is that Z himself did not believe that Martin was alive when he got off of his body. The testimony of many people was that when he got off of Martin's body Z had no reason to believe he was in any danger from Martin as he turned his back on Martin, never looked at him again and behaved unconcerned that Martin may have still been alive.

I'm not seeing the jury caring about whether or not Martin was capable of moving his arms underneath his own body when the entire exchange between the man with the flashlight and Z and what the testimony was of many other witnesses is contrary to Z's story of what occurred following the gunshot.

I'm not seeing the jury believing that Martin was capable of either speech or movement after Z got up off of him, and that would believe that even Z himself believed he had reason to believe Martin was incapable of either speech or movement when he got off of him and walked away or he WOULDN'T have gotten off of him, turned his back on him and walked away.

[Just Saying]

43. He jumped up after being shot in the heart?

Come on, even you can't believe that. There's no way he was in a condition to jump up.

And you're missing the part according to Z where he held Trayvon face down and spread his arms. Did the kid who had 2 holes in his heart and lungs full of blood jump up before or after that?

The jury will buy none of that.

[GreenStormCloud]

49. You are scrambling the timeline,

and are throwing away Dr. Bao's testimony.

Incapacitation is NOT instantaneous, even with a totally destroyed heart. The brain and muscles still have oxgenated blood in them, enough for several seconds of full activity. Plenty of time for TM to jump up, take a couple of steps, and collapse. TM can speak while doing that physical activity.

Z gets up at the same time and gets on top of TM, pulls his arms out.

One of the neighbors has testified that he arrived about 20 seconds after the shot and saw Z on TM, Z asked for help in restraining TM. A got up.

It has been abut 30 seconds. Dr. Bao says that TM lived for at least a minute, in great pain. TM's last action was to pull his arms back in to clutch where it hurt.

[uppityperson]

50. TM was in shock. Pulling his arms in to clutch "where it hurt" is Hollywood.

Yes, getting shot hurts if you survive it but you don't get that pain in the first minute. You get shock instead.

[GreenStormCloud]

54. Dr. Bao said that TM would have been in severe pain. N/T

[uppityperson]

55. No shit sherlock. He could not breath, got kicked really hard in the chest, was in profound shock

A major assault to the body does that. How the body reacts is goes into shock.

[Just Saying]

52. I'm not scrambling anything

I'm asking you to clarify your theory on the sequence of events.

Which witness was out after the shooting? And where are you getting your timeline-20 seconds after shot, 30 seconds after-says who?

Dr. Bao said he was alive, not that he was capable of jumping up or speaking.

It feels like your just making stuff up.

[GreenStormCloud]

56. Timeline comes from two witnesses.

The one who lived across from the dogwalk who ran around the corner and reached Z in 20 seconds. And from Mr. Good whose glass door opened directly onto them.

I gave you the medical reason why a person can still be active for about 10 seconds after a heart shot. The brain and muscles still have oxgenated blood in them. Do you think that blood suddenly goes away with a heart shot? The heart quits pumping effectively, but it doesn't suck the blood out of the brain.

It would take several beats of the heart for the blood in the lungs to be enough to impead speech.

Until the oxygen in the blood is used the brain can continue to function.

[Just Saying]

57. Good was out before the shooting if I'm not mistaken.

Was he out after as well? But I'm not going to look up information that you didn't back up. What's the name of the witness who arrived 20 seconds after shooting and what specifically did he testify to?

Are you a doctor? Was anything you're saying backed up by testimony?

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. Just saying something is true doesn't make it so. It seems like you believe it, but I'm not convinced and I'm not seeing proof, but just your opinions on the story.

No I don't think blood goes away, but I think a shot, which I believe went thru his lung then heart in and out, will incapacitate a person to the point where "jumping up" and speaking would be challenging if not impossible. These are grave injuries so I think there's a large gap between being alive for let's say a minute, which has been testified to, and jumping up and speaking which you and Zimmerman are claiming.

[GreenStormCloud]

66. History is replete with examples of people who have sustained similar injuries and kept fighting.

There are tens of thousands of well documented examples of soldiers in combat who have taken severe mortal injuries and contuinued to fight. That includes examples of soldiers who have been shot in the heart and kept fighting, although for a very short while. And there are others that collapsed and died from lesser wounds. The difference is in adreline and mind-set. A high adreniline level combined with a mind-set of "I'm gonna win this fight no matter what." makes a huge difference in one can do.

[Just Saying]

138. I'm sure there are factors that change different reactions.

I'm not looking for antidotal evidence but actual medical testimony in this specific case.

[uppityperson]

164. With a pulse of over 100/min, that would be a second. I expect his pulse was at least that

with all that was going on. It took a second, maybe 2, for the heart to pump enough blood into the lungs so he could not speak. I do not know how anyone could fit "oh gosh, you got me, you got it, you got me" into that amount of time.

"It would take several beats of the heart for the blood in the lungs to be enough to impead speech."

[noiretextatique]

181. unless he's some sort of superhuman magical negro, of course

which seems to be what some are suggesting. totally in keeping with zimmerman's version of the events of that evening. utter bullshit, of course.

[TorchTheWitch]

171. Z's own re-enactment claims that Martin never moved

His re-enactment claims that he never got off of Martin's body until the first police officer arrived and that he was till sitting on and subduing Martin while holding out Martin's arms and was JUST getting up off of him when that first officer arrived.

If Z's claims to what occurred after the gunshot refute that Martin ever moved after he got up off of him and that both the man with the flashlight and the first officer on the scene were right there next to him to have seen him move. Either one believes Z's claims of what happened which include Martin never moving after Z got off of him or Z's story of what happened is false (which it is) and contrary to what every other witness who saw what Z was doing following the gunshot and the arrival of the man with the flashlight and that Martin had the opportunity of time alone to move his hands beneath his own body. Either way, Z's claims of what occurred are false - either all of his story of what occurred following the gunshot is false (which according to corroberating testimony of several witnesses) or that all of his story is true contrary to all the other witness testimony EXCEPT the part where Z spread out Martin's arms.

Martin was also shot with an expanding bullet which is why it never exited his body and why far more damage had occurred inside him than just a hole in his heart and a hole in his lung.

[Auntie Bush]

158. "It would take several beats of the heart for the blood in the lungs to be enough to impead speech."

Sorry but the heart couldn't beat after it was shot. Yes there is oxygenated blood still in the brain but the heart no longer beat...that's why there was so little blood loss.

[GreenStormCloud]

160. The Medical Examiner testified that the heart continued to beat.

Until I heard that testimony I held the same view as you. I thought that the heart was destroyed by the shot.

[TorchTheWitch]

167. The guy with the flashlight testified he didn't run

He said he walked into his garage, got a flashlight, went outside through his garage and walked at a sedate pace all the way around to the "T". He also testified he first saw Z as Z was walking toward him with his cellphone to his ear.

What Z's claim was his entire exchange with the arrival of the guy with the flashlight and the arrival of the first officer on the scene is entirely contradictory to what that man with the flashlight testified to and what several other witnesses testified to as to what Z was doing between when the shot was fired and the arrival of the guy with the flashlight. Z himself claimed that when he got off of Martin that Martin never moved. Several other witnesses testified that he never moved following the gunshot.

The jury isn't going to care if Martin was capable of movement following the gunshot because of all the witnesses that testified he never moved and Z's own claim that he never moved after having gotten up off of him. Z's claim was that he was JUST getting off of Martin while he was talking to the man with the flashlight and the arrival of the first officer on the scene and was right there next to it when he told the officer that he had a gun and the officer took it from him, handcuffed him, etc. when Z, that officer and the man with the flashlight were nowhere near Martin's body.

What might be medically possible is totally contrary to the testimony of several witnesses INCLUDING Z's own claim of what Martin did from the time that Z got off of his body. All that is relevant then is the testimony of the witnesses that is totally contrary to Z's story of what happened after the gunshot and that Z's story doesn't match any of that testimony. Unfortunately for Z, none of his claims for what happened after the gunshot match the testimony of all the other witnesses of the time period between the gunshot and the arrival of the first person on the scene which was the man with the flashlight.

[belcffub]

60. I don't know about people but when I hunt

Deer with a heart shot will run 100 to 200 yards... Over the years I have had probably 4 deer do that... from a complete stand still to full on run then they drop dead... I do not know if the same behavior happens with people...

[GreenStormCloud]

67. It does. N/T

[Just Saying]

137. Let me know if any of them

Jump up and say "You got me!" Lol

I'm sure there are a number of factors at work that determine when any living thing drops from a fatal wound.

[belcffub]

179. if that happens I may just

soil myself a bit...

I have hunted for 20 years... I have seen a deer I totally missed stop and lay down... that was a weird one... I have seen some just drop and I have had to track deer with good shots... no rhyme or reason...

[Voice for Peace]

29. but the doctor said it was unlikely trayvon could have moved after being shot.

edit to change "would have moved" to "could have moved"

[uppityperson]

31. Just because someone is "alive" does not mean they can get up and move. It doesn't work that way.

[GreenStormCloud]

34. Incapacitation is not instantaneous.

Even if the heart stops suddenly, the brain and muscles still have oxygenated blood in them, enough for a few seconds of full activity.

In revolutionary France, the heads of the freshly executed (by guillotine)were quickly snatched from the basket by their hair and held up so they could see & hear the crowd cheer. Some heads mouthed words that were lip read.

[uppityperson]

39. And I've seen enough people who are alive and unable to move to counter your guillotined heads

Did any of those guilottined bodies then stand up, stagger around and fall down? Being alive does not mean you can get up and move around.

Simply being alive does not mean a person can move.

Other nitpickings:

I would like you to explain how, when the ME said it was unlikely he could move after being shot, TM sat up, said "oh gosh, you got me, you got it, you got me" then fell face forward, Zimmy got out from under TM, spread TM's arms out and held him down, and then TM pulled his arms back under his body.


Have you ever had the wind knocked out of you? Getting hit in the chest by a bullet, even with a vest on, generally knocks the air out of your lungs. Now poke holes in your lungs and chest making it near impossible to refill those lungs with air. HOW can you talk if you don't have air in your lungs?

[WinkyDink]

46. "Some heads mouthed words that were lip read." Complete balderdash.

[LiberalFighter]

132. Agreed

More likely involuntary reflexes such as when chickens get their head chopped off. Their body will still run around from the shock.

[Just Saying]

48. The guillotine stories are dismissed by science.

Yes a beheaded person may technically be "alive" for a second but any movement is judged to be muscle spasm.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/10-brain-myths6.htm

[ellisonz]

51. Rubbish.

You've seen too many movies.

[noiretextatique]

182. nope...just a continuation of the myth of the scary black guy

he's able to speak and walk and god knows what else...after being shot in the heart poor zimmerman

[uppityperson]

162. Here is an article and link giving ME's opinion he could not have moved. Didn't want you to miss it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023179052
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/george-zimmerman-judge-rejects-motion-dismiss-case/story?id=19582338#.UddXZjn3CYM

"From my experience and another autopsy we did three weeks ago, I don't believe he could move," Bao said.

Bao's claim that Martin would have been unable to move could cast doubt on Zimmerman's version of what happened during their violent confrontation on Feb. 26, 2012.

Zimmerman, who is being tried on charges of second degree murder, has maintained that he shot Martin after he was knocked down and beaten by Martin and the teenager went for Zimmerman's gun. After the shot was fired, Martin sat up and said, "You got me," Zimmerman told police and media.

Bao's claim that the wound would have immediately incapacitated Martin is the latest example of what the prosecution says are discrepancies in Zimmerman's version of what happened that night

[anneboleyn]

178. No. Debunked by modern science. Blood pressure plummets

so drastically and immediately when a person is beheaded that consciousness -- the "brain" processing cheering crowds and so on and "speaking" -- is a combination of historical myth and old wives tales.

[Ruby the Liberal]

26. Confused

Dr Bao typed up notes in preparation for his testimony, and the attorneys are allowed to have copies, even if they aren't introduced as evidence or noted as even an official ME report?

[Just Saying]

33. I guess so according

To what the MSNBC "expert" is saying. She said it's out of the ordinary for a witness to bring their own notes. A report, yes, but not notes. It seems like he did his own cliff notes version of his report.

I don't see it as a big deal. He can't be expected to remember specifics of every case he touches. He must have done hundreds since Trayvon.

[avebury]

35. The witness was 100% correct when he stated

that no one is going to remember absolutely everything after so much time since the incident.

[Just Saying]

41. I think the jury gets that.

He defense just ends up looking like their grasping at straws.

[Gin]

42. Does the defense have to present witnesses ? Can they rest and then do closing arguments?

[WinkyDink]

47. No. Yes.

[GreenStormCloud]

53. They can rest and do closing arguments. They won't

Likely they will move for a aquittal and it will be denied. That will be a purely procedural move. Then the defense will call witness, some of whom will be the same witnesses that were prosecution witnesses. Being called as defense witnesses will allow the defense to ask certain questions that they couldn't ask during cross-examination.

[avebury]

61. Knock Knock is so annoying! nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

62. What is a "Richardson Hearing" and why is Defense being asked who they want to call to the stand?

[Ruby the Liberal]

63. And Twitter explained:

"okay, a Richardson hearing is held after the defense moves to strike a witness's testimony for a discovery violation"

Judge just ruled that it isn't a violation.

[Ruby the Liberal]

64. Hey Skeletor

How many times does this guy need to tell you what is and isn't his job?

[uponit7771]

65. Well it was a stupid question KNOCK KNOCK! You can't go and kill people and find out

[Marrah_G]

68. His parents are incredibly strong to sit through this

I know they are required to hold back their emotions and I can't imagine the emotional pain they are in.

[Ruby the Liberal]

69. No "Ill will and hatred"

Is O'Mara serious?

Fucking punks?

Shit, hes running?

They always get away?

Can someone put those quotes on a loop?

Edit - and now putting words in Sybrina's mouth, "my son caused his own death". What a flaming jackass.

[avebury]

70. Omara's client has ZERO credibility

and in no way should be believed. Zimmerman is a narcissistic, pathological liar.

[Voice for Peace]

104. who among us knew this prosecutor was going to lay it all out so precisely?

this is the first time I've believed there's a
real chance of conviction on second degree.

[avebury]

106. And this is the way that it needs to be laid out in the closing statement.

He presented the prosecution in a very methodical manner that is compelling and easily understood.

[uponit7771]

77. ...what a self hating job...

[Ruby the Liberal]

79. Or an ego so massive as to lose all context of self-awareness.

I can't believe I am listening to this. What color is the sky in this man's world?

[Marrah_G]

80. He's doing his job

Hopefully the judge sees right through it

[uponit7771]

71. Is he asking for the case to be dropped?!

[KurtNYC]

72. this standard opening for the defense -- ask for dismissal

say the prosecution failed to make a case

[uponit7771]

74. ok..thx, sounds like this is SOP

[avebury]

73. Yup!

I just don't see how the judge can agree to that.

[Ruby the Liberal]

75. Yes, and is apparently commonplace

No way in hell is this judge going to dismiss.

He is filibustering to listen to the sound of his own voice.

[Nevernose]

82. It happens in a majority of cases

It's more uncommon for the defense to NOT file for dismissal.

[GreenStormCloud]

76. Standard move to ask for an aquital. He knows he won't get it. N/T

[LiberalFighter]

88. Based on his arguments it sounded a bit like he was helping the prosecution's case.

His dismissal arguments were totally flimsy.

[uponit7771]

78. "...get past the expletive..." as if that was the only think showing ill will towards TM

[GreenStormCloud]

81. He is bringing up a lot of interesting case law. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

83. Now the prosecution's turn. He is doing a good job too. N/T

[avebury]

84. He is doing a great job. He is very thorough and to the point.

He is keeping me engaged in a way the Defense yahoos never can.

[uponit7771]

87. +1

[LiberalFighter]

91. The prosecutor is much clearer with his explanation.

While the defense was more confusing and seemed to be using case law that was not relevant or not supportive of his dismissal request.

[uponit7771]

98. +1, good day for the PA

[uponit7771]

85. PA is doing a KICK ASS job of knocking down the defense request too

[uponit7771]

86. "...one of them is dead the other is a liar..." WHOA

[avebury]

89. Short and to the point! nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

90. +1

[avebury]

92. And the Sean Hannity interview comes back to

bite Zimmerman in the butt!

[SaveAmerica]

169. What details did they mention about the interview? Thanks.

[avebury]

172. Sean Hannity asked him about the Stand Your Ground Law

and he looked Hannity right in the face and said he knew nothing about it. The Prosecution entered in his college transcripts and called a Professor to the stand who testified that Zimmerman was one of the best students in his class and they spend a substantial amount of time discussing the Stand Your Gun Law and self defense.

He also stated that he did not have any regrets and would not change anything he did. He stated that he felt it was God's will (apparently to kill a 17 year old kid - my editorial addition).

The interview showed Zimmerman as a cold hearted psychopath.

[SaveAmerica]

175. Ah, OK, thank you for the details!

[uponit7771]

93. Wait!!! Where has this guy been in the last 2 weeks for the PA?! String Z up now!....

..nt

[SaveAmerica]

168. Save the best for last, what you want the jurors to remember.

[Voice for Peace]

94. This guy is blowing me away

smart and thorough and passionate
and doesn't waste a word.

Zimmerman is toast methinks. He looks uneasy.

[avebury]

95. I hope that he does the closing statement.

We are hearing a lot of what the prosecution will put in it.

[uponit7771]

97. AMEN....you can hear a pin drop in that court room

[Voice for Peace]

99. is the jury out for this process?

[avebury]

100. Yes - Unfortunately.

This would have been great for the Prosecution.

[Voice for Peace]

101. it's a preview of their closing statement

I think I'm in love

GAWD THIS O'MARA IS A WHINEYBUTT

[uponit7771]

102. Yes, basically his client is a damn liar and it's for the jury to decide

[Voice for Peace]

108. the precedents cited by the prosecution were devastating to the defense, I thought

especially that the very act of pointing a gun
at somebody and shooting them is indication
of a depraved mind.

O'Mara is seriously LAME

[GreenStormCloud]

111. That's not what he said.

the act of pointing a gun is an indication of ill will towards the person you are shooting is what he said. It can still be a righteous shoot if it is valid self-defense. A depraved mind invalidates self-defense.

[TeeYiYi]

117. ”...a righteous shoot”...

Can you even hear yourself?

TYY

[GreenStormCloud]

121. That is the tem used for justified shootings,

both by police and civilians.

[JimDandy]

128. No, really they can't. They have gun on the brain all the time.

[RGR375]

119. You do understand

That this judge has almost but guaranteed that if zimmerman is convicted it will be thrown out on appeal.

[Voice for Peace]

124. no, I don't

[Gothmog]

129. I disagree

The judge is being over back wards and has done a decent job so far.

As for the motion to dismiss, the motion by the defense was very weak and used some interesting readings of the case law. Several of the cases cited by the defense were not applicable except on a very attenuated basis. As a practical matters, motion to dismiss or acquit are almost always made and are rarely granted in these cases. The judge normally will let the case get to the jury unless it is clear that there is no case at all for the prosecution. If the jury rules against the defendant, then the judge can still overrule the jury.

From what I have seen, it is not a given that the a conviction would automatically be overturned due to the judge's rulings

[RGR375]

133. Not coming from me

Several retired judges and one federal that believes zimmerman is guilty have said that this judge has almost but guaranteed that a conviction will be thrown out. Especially by not allowing the toxicology reports.

[noiretextatique]

183. what toxicology reports? they never did any on zimmerman

and why in the hell is did THAT happen? he may have grounds for appeal...doubt it, but martin's family certainly has grounds to sue the police department for failure to properly investigate

[ellisonz]

130. How so?

[avebury]

103. Both Omara and Knock Knock get on my last nerve.

They don't understand the concept of diminishing return. If you whine long enough people start to see through you and tune you out.

[Voice for Peace]

105. watching the judge has been interesting.. she seems to find them annoying too.

They have continually wasted an enormous amount
of time with both the witnesses and the jury.

[avebury]

107. I totally agree. I would be so irritated if I were on the jury.

I hate people who waste my time. I know that they are supposed to tear apart a prosecution witness or shed doubt on evidence but there is a point of diminishing return. You make your point and move on. If you don't you actually make your case weaker.

[uponit7771]

96. +1!!! LOL " ... nobody heard 50 screams..."!!!!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

135. I missed today's procededings.

Who did the argument against the directed verdict motion?

De La Ronda ("the bald dude with glasses" as Rachel called him), John Guy (Kevin Costner sound alike who did the powerful opening) or the other guy?

[Voice for Peace]

136. John Guy

I'm going to look for it on you tube... you don't want to miss it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

140. If you can post a link, that would be great.

[Voice for Peace]

141. no luck so far but it's bound to be posted someplace.. it was so good

on edit I am wondering if it's not allowed to
publish that part of the trial? The jury was not
present for the whatchamacallit.. request for
dismissal part of the day.

[Voice for Peace]

142. try this link

I think it will be included in there.. there are a bunch
of videos from today including the defense's motion
to dismiss stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/thecount

[avebury]

139. I believe it was the other guy - Richard Mantei. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

143. Mantei - and he was brilliant.

[GreenStormCloud]

109. Motion for Judgement of Aquital denied.

That was predicable.

[uponit7771]

110. Defense had a DECENT rebutal but left out a lot of gating issues with their clients credibit

[GreenStormCloud]

112. Now the defense starts. Z's Mom takes the stand. N/T

[Ruby the Liberal]

113. And the inevitable "me too"

on the voice on the 911 call.

[Ruby the Liberal]

115. Oh - so no "you need that to be your son"

I guess that is only Sybrina's "explanation".

[senseandsensibility]

114. OMG He's going to have Z's mom identify the voice

as her son's?

[GreenStormCloud]

116. Which Mom will the jury believe? N/T

[Ruby the Liberal]

118. Noe the uncle claims to not know the TV is talking about his nephew

but he recognized the screams. Even though GZ's mother never heard him yell like that before.

[Nevernose]

125. I wonder of its the same uncle

Whose daughter accused George of molesting her for the better part of a decade? Probably not, since he only said, "I'm sorry" and walked off.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0716/George-Zimmerman-s-cousin-accuses-him-of-sexual-molestation-video

[Hoyt]

127. Nice find.

[Ruby the Liberal]

145. Wow! Guessing she won't be called.

This dude is a psychopath.

[GreenStormCloud]

149. Additional proof that Z is a sleazeball...

...but also irrelevant to the trial. The prosecution had the tape, released it to the press, but didn't use it in the trial.

[GreenStormCloud]

120. Now George's Uncle claims the scream is George's. N/T

[Marrah_G]

122. Of course the family members will say it is george

They love him and they don't want to believe he would murder someone.

[Lurks Often]

123. And that argument can be applied to Martin's mother and half brother just as well. n/t

[Marrah_G]

126. Yes it can

[pintobean]

144. The unsaid testimony

aside from trying to neutralize TM's mom's testimony, was to establish that GZ is Hispanic. I think that's why the mother and uncle were called, rather than the mother and father.

[GreenStormCloud]

154. The Uncle, being LEO, carries added weight to his testimony.

Legally his testimony in this trial is not supposed to given extra weight. But the jurors have been conditioned since birth to respect LEOs. And his Uncle was a very strong personality.

I think you are also right about the Hispanic angle.

[PennsylvaniaMatt]

131. George Zimmerman's uncle is full of shit...

How the hell can you be in another room and hear a faint scream on TV and automatically know that is your nephew....

You can't!!! That was such bullshit!

[Marrah_G]

146. I think the jury will see through it also

He tried to hard. It wasn't believable that if your nephew is accused of murder and you are in law enforcement that you would not find out everything you could.

[Nevernose]

134. Is a mid-trial press conference normal?

I can't recall ever having heard one. Maybe a few passing comments, and maybe something in the OJ trial, but offhand this seems unusual.

[GreenStormCloud]

147. The advantage in scream recognition is with the defense.

Mom vs Mom cancel each other out. The Uncle is a Law Enforcement Officer (Deputy sherriff?). The jury is 5 white with one non-black minority. They have been conditioned since childhood to listen to and obey the police. His Uncle, as an LEO will enjoy the advantage of the weighted word.

[Ruby the Liberal]

150. I'm so white I'm translucent

and I think dude is full of shit.

What LEO who loved his nephew SO MUCH would purposely avoid all information so as to be "untainted" while claiming to hear/recognize identifiable sounds that even the guy's own mother admitted she never heard him utter? That testimony was way over the top as to be completely unbelievable - and his 15 minutes of "fame" (usefulness) are now over.

The screaming ended the nano-second the gun went off. Zimmerman claims that (i) not only was he in fear for his life, but (ii) he thought the shot went wide and (iii) it was more important for a witness to help him "subdue the suspect" than call 911.

If that was the case - why did the screaming stop at that precise moment in time?

[arcane1]

151. "thought the shot went wide" how did I miss that?

Zimmerman is claiming that he didn't even realize Martin had been shot? Did he think the sudden noise made Martin faint or something? And what about "you got me"??

[Ruby the Liberal]

153. Yes - he claimed in original questioning

that he straddled Trayvon and held his arms out to the sides (90* angle from his torso) while yelling for help "subduing" him because he thought the shot went wide and missed and needed physical assistance rather than a 911 call.

Apparently, Trayvon rose from the dead, knocked Zimmerman aside, pulled his arms back under his body, collapsed back onto them and then went back to being dead by the time the police arrived. Or something.

[arcane1]

155. "I thought the shot went wide, and he said 'you got me' to psych me out"

"Or something"

I can't believe anyone thinking this case even appears close. The more I learn of Zimmerman's own words, the more full of shit he looks.

[GreenStormCloud]

157. Medical examiner testified that TM lived for one to ten minutes...

...after being shot. Z got up off of TM about 20 seconds after the shooting. By that time Z would have realized that TM wasn't putting up much of a fight anymore. TM would have been able to pull his arms back in. To hold where it hurts is a normal reaction, and the medical examiner said that TM would have been in severe pain.

[Ruby the Liberal]

161. With 2 holes in his heart, bleeding out into his own lung

to the point that they couldn't pull blood from his (preferred) limbs and had to draw from his chest (3rd choice) because there was no blood left.

He probably danced a jig.

Sorry this case is such a threat to your "freedoms". Try to rest up this weekend. Its not over until its over. Hopefully sanity prevails.

[uppityperson]

165. If you are shot in the chest, it is like getting hit with a baseball bat. You hurt all over.

Grasping the chest when shot is a Hollywood thing. Not reality.

If anything, he felt a profound shock that his body had been violated along with getting his chest impacted. Having talked with people who have been shot, stabbed, etc, they have told me the immediate reaction is not pain but shock. Pain comes after the body is able to feel it after the shock starts to wear off.

[GreenStormCloud]

177. Not always.

The body's reaction depends upon various things. What drugs are in the system, adrenaline level, and mind-set make a huge difference. There are tens of thousands of well documented accounts of combat soldiers getting severe wounds, including heart shots, and continuing to fight for a short while after getting hit. Baron Von Richtofen made a perfect landing in his plane, then died in the cockpit from a severe wound. In the Battle off Savo Island (1942) there was a U.S. sailor whose guts were spilled out on his feet, yet he continued to try to load a shell into the cannon. He died within a minute. I could easily list many examples.

Did you notice the post about heart-shot deer running for up to 200 yards? Humans, in extreme circumstances, can do much more than you think they can do.

[uppityperson]

180. And if you are already dead you don't move at all. Or if his legs were amputated he won't run.Or if

We can play "or if" scenarios that having nothing to do with this. Since Trayvon was not on drugs, a combat soldier or a deer, none of those have any bearing.

[GreenStormCloud]

152. None of what you said is a rebuttal of my post.

You went off on a different rant. The fact is that most white law-abiding folks have been taught from childhood to respect LEOs. It is simply part of law-abiding white culture. And it will be through the lens of that culture that they will judge Z's Uncle.

[Ruby the Liberal]

156. Holy Christ

Sorry if I was too subtle. Allow me to address this head on.

Sybrina Fulton = black woman who works for the government (24 years with Miami/Dade) but without a childhood "history" of respecting LEO?

most white law-abiding folks = have been taught from childhood to respect LEOs

Me = white woman with much respect for LEO that thinks the uncle was full of shit because rather than use his skills/training/resources to assist his nephew claims to remain "pure" so that his 3 minute testimony about vocal recognition can be "untainted".

Your view of the female, white (5 of 6) jury in aggregate is, well, interesting - to say the least.

[GreenStormCloud]

159. Sabrina Fulton is not on the jury.

I am talking about jurors.

[Ruby the Liberal]

163. And I am talking about your comments directed toward race

Why my first response to you noted that I am white - and my reaction to your bullshit "hispanic woman wins over black woman by default" remarks based on the racial makeup of the jury.

Then again, there could be more people like you on this jury than people like me...

[noiretextatique]

186. +1000

i don't know why this person, and others, pretend to be impartial.

[noiretextatique]

185. because it was martin who was screaming for help

not the murdering liar.

[Starry Messenger]

170. A lot of people think cops are full of shit.

[GreenStormCloud]

176. How many of the jury are cop haters?

In general, cop haters are also going to have police records. Law-abiding citizens tend to be respectful of LEOs.

[noiretextatique]

187. nonsense...i bet martin's family are not fond of the sanford police department

since they failed to fully investigate their son's murder. i don't think they have police records

[GreenStormCloud]

190. Martin's family aren't on the jury. N/T

[noiretextatique]

184. only a fool would believe that

why would zimmerman, armed with a gun, be screaming for help? yet another part of his story that doesn't add up.

[Jim__]

188. Zimmerman claims his nose and mouth were covered, with blood running back into his throat.

The screaming is continuous until the shot is fired.

Advantage to the prosecution.

[noiretextatique]

189. yep...he is a liar

and a murderer.

[korak]

148. Brown Uncle and Mother of George the Racist......

Heh. O'Mara did that just right.