Making $7.75 an Hour, and Figuring There’s Little to Lose by Speaking Out

[n2doc]

By MICHAEL POWELL
Published: July 1, 2013 79 Comments

Shenita Simon watches a twilight rain wash across Brownsville. Softly, from her apartment in a public housing tower, she begins to talk of her life’s impossible mathematics.

This 25-year-old woman with striking black eyes and hair pulled back in a bun is a shift manager at KFC — her title is good for 50 cents an hour above minimum wage. From this, she and her husband, Jude Toussaint, an unemployed antenna installer, buy clothes for their three children and food, and help her mother with the rent.

Her wages erode on all sides. Often, she said, she finds her check is hours short. And when she works overtime, she receives two checks, each at straight time, as if she worked for two different employers rather than a single KFC across from Bargain Land on Pitkin Avenue in Brooklyn.

Last year boiling oil spilled over and scalded her hands; she received $58 a week in workers’ compensation, she said. Nearly every day her manager called and demanded: When are you returning to work?

She looks you square in the eyes.

“I’m beyond not satisfied,” she says. “This isn’t the life I want for my children. This isn’t the life I want for myself.”

more

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/nyregion/making-7-75-an-hour-and-figuring-theres-little-to-lose-by-speaking-out.html?_r=0

[SummerSnow]

1. This is sad how hard working

Americans have to go through this. When we speak out about it were frowned upon by our govt.But then our govt freely gives millions of aid to other countries.smh.

[Bannakaffalatta]

2. Not so freely to other countries -

(and there is a gun trigger at the other end of almost every string) as to its own billionnaires - the same guys who stiff their employees and gamble away the pension funds.

[truebluegreen]

4. We don't give freely to other countries,

we give freely to our own billionaires and corporations.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. And to the Israeli military.

The notion that "foreign aid" is a big part of our budget (again excepting the provision of weapons & technology to Israel) is one of the most pervasive and successful pieces of disinformatin ever invented by the Right Wing.

[Quantess]

3. Brownsville, TX?

About the cheating on overtime: Does Texas not have a labor commission where violations like these can be reported? It should be fairly clear cut and easy to prove.

The working off-the clock, however is a more widespread problem and employers seem to get away with it.

But maybe the workers don't dare report it out of fear of losing their jobs.

[ctsnowman]

5. I thought

the same thing at first. It's NY NY.

[ctsnowman]

6. Maybe she

should borrow money from her parents and start an investment firm, So simple.

Thanks for the link.

[Arugula Latte]

27. Or she can do what poor struggling Ann and Mitt did in college -- sell some stock.

Why don't these people think of these solutions themselves? Tut tut.

[Hydra]

8. But remember kids...

Everything is fine! Progress is being made! Trust us(tm)!

[durablend]

18. Yea, stop rocking the boat!

There's an election to think about!

[Hydra]

20. Ya, there are always elections to think about

Every 2 years, and in between that, we're not supposed to say anything because they need our support in order to do the things we need them to...so just shut up already!

...Does that sound as crazy to everyone else as it does to me?

[NaturalHigh]

9. She needs to just pull herself up by her boot straps.

Whining like this keeps America from producing more billionaires.

(Yes, this is sarcasm.)

[Eleanors38]

10. This shit-treatment of workers is building all over the U.S., yet

there are only a few posts on this thread while justt ONE of the current Zimmerman threads is pushing 300. Great priorities we have, myself included.

[n2doc]

11. well, as this toon notes:

We want our bread and circuses. Especially our circuses.

[Eleanors38]

23. ^^^ And rebroadcast of Tattoo Island™!

[mick063]

33. This cartoon is bullshit

The news corporations pick the story. They pick the narrative. If they wish to cover Egypt, they are reporting the news.

If they wish to cover Zimmerman at the expense of other stories, they are maximizing profit through sensationalism. They stroke the bellows to build the story hotter. They are entertainment for profit.

There was a time when News corporations were not the entertainment industry.

Don't pass off this bullshit on the American viewer.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. The race issues surfaced by the Zimmerman trial are extremely important.

Living wages, worker conditions, also extremely important. These are enduring issues, race, labor, wages. Not all of them get a lot of face time. Particularly race. It gets forgotten about all the time, or assumed to be 'fixed', but you can see it still seething when we get a flashpoint case like this trial, and it all comes bubbling up in a rush.

I don't think it's abnormal. Labor gets that kind of sudden overwhelming focus from time to time too, when say, a major plant closes, or a bunch of miners get killed by some uncaring company over a few bucks. Teachers got it in the wake of the OK tornadoes, albeit short-lived.

[Eleanors38]

24. I think the Z coverage is more cathartic for many,

and an opportunity to display bona fides: I'm less racist than you, etc. And among our own members, yet.

There are little-covered (MSM) strikes around the nation carried out by food-workers. If these folks can't get at least a modicum of support from the hot shot lefties at DU, then where will they get it?

[BrotherIvan]

21. Read this thread where the authoritarians are defending foreign-made uniforms for our military

They call an Airforce Sergeant a coward for questioning why his boots were made in China. Then they espouse buying slave labor goods to keep defense spending down because us leftys complain about Pentagon spending. Advocating for manufacturing to return to the US and pointing out that a client as large as the US military that is paid for by our tax dollars will get you called a socialist. Every single authoritarian/corporatist/BOGer on this site has not a sliver of difference between them and a right winger.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023168489

We should all be happy and grateful that the only jobs in this country are shitty, minimum wage fast food because it makes the employment numbers go up and the only person we should actually care about look good. With all this anti-worker sentiment, I don't know what on earth people who call themselves "Democrats" believe in anymore.

[HardTimes99]

32. I understand your fury and frustration but there is more than a 'sliver of

dofference between them and a right winger.' The 'them' to whom you refer are center-rightists, but the right-wingers to whom you refer are out and out Christo-fascists. Surely you are capable of distinguishing between the really bad and outright evil?

[mick063]

38. Good Lord

Last edited Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:09 PM - Edit history (1)

The modern center is to Reagan's right. The entire spectrum has shifted mightily.

So right wing is now "Christo-fascists"? We are actually lending political credibility to extremist nut cases?

Right wing used to be William F Buckley.


Edit: changed left to right. Mistake on my part

[BrotherIvan]

42. I would argue that many 'centrists' on this very board are right in line with Reagan

I forgot to add the disgusting Imperialistic racism shown in the last couple of days. Sounds like the 80s when we loved to stomp on South American countries with impunity.

And I agree that lending credibility to the fundie whackos is a huge error, but then again, Reagan brought us that too.

[mick063]

43. You are correct.

Thanks for finding that mistake. I intended right when I put left.

[BrotherIvan]

45. Thanks, at least there is some pushback here against that insanity

I am starting to approach "hysterical" because conservative/Republican/centrist craziness make me flip my lid.

[BrotherIvan]

41. It is starting to get very close

Beyond social issues such as women's rights and LGBT issues, how does advocating for gutting social programs, fair treatment of workers and living wages, and the authoritarian state differ from right wingers?

[Skeeter Barnes]

34. We have been taught to hate the working class and blame workers for everything.

I see it here on this forum on any thread about workers pay or their rights. "If you don't like it, quit and go work somewhere else".

Look at some of the threads about the BART strike. People here don't like Unions and they sure as hell don't give a shit about other workers struggling.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Meanwhile, fast food corporations everywhere are automating away every last job

they possibly can.

I had a dream once of eating at a Taco Bell, and watching a gaggle of Roomba's struggling to haul the garbage can into the back to empty it, wheels spinning on the tiles, little chains joining the can to the devices.

I don't think it's that far from the future.

[n2doc]

14. Yep. Eventually there will be one person

A "manager" with no health care and no overtime rights to make sure no one steals anything and to fix stuff when the machines mess up. The rest will be by automated touchscreen/conveyor belt.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. It ought to give people nightmares.

When the jobs go.. What is left?

[dotymed]

13. U.S. inc. n/t

[JDPriestly]

17. And the bosses go to church and claim to be Christian!

God may forgive their sins on Sunday, but the hungry children and sick husbands? How can they forgive?

[Thav]

26. They worship at the altar of Supply Side Jesus.

[JDPriestly]

31. Excellent answer.

[drm604]

19. K&R

[mn9driver]

22. They will all lose their jobs for speaking out.

The minimum wage ghetto works both ways: the workers and their jobs are both utterly disposable.

[caseymoz]

25. So, then they'll end up in the streets

To protest full time, and with nothing to lose.

Not a good trend.

[mick063]

29. There are two narratives of the American poor.

There is the FOX News narrative based on the 25 year old Reagan "story" of the lazy black welfare queen.

There is the more accurate, modern narrative of a group called the "working poor". They are anything but lazy and the majority of them are white. As if race should even be mentioned, but hey, Reagan took us there.


This is why I despise Ronald Reagan. This is his lasting legacy.

Reagan's vision brought us the Walmart standard. The format that many retailers try to emulate.

[JustAnotherGen]

80. It's actually 37 years old

The South Side of Chicago (read black) narrative started in 1976 in Mississippi. I was three when that lie was told about me.

[emmadoggy]

30. These practices are beyond shameful.

They are criminal.

I wish I could say that I can envision a day when things are better.... sadly, I have little hope.

[Skeeter Barnes]

35. Wage theft is a big problem and it can be risky to fight if you really need the job.

The plant manager used to steal wages from all of us at a job I used to have. I complained about it to the staffing agency and got called in to the manager's office. He said "Is there a problem"? "You don't seem to want to be part of the family here".

They laid everybody off when the economy got bad in 2008. I wasn't called back for obvious reasons when they started back up again.

“I’m beyond not satisfied,” she says. “This isn’t the life I want for my children. This isn’t the life I want for myself.”

I know how you feel, Mrs. Simon.

[Phlem]

36. Excellent post

I know a lot of people in similar situations. I've personally been struggling for years. Yea the job numbers are up, that is NOT indicator of the economic climate or real unemployment numbers. Been hearing that shit for to long.

There are a lot more tech companies doing it the Microsoft Way, hire contractors, and before a year is up lay them off so no benefits have to be payed.

It's bad out hear and getting worse.

A better job out look is why I voted for O, not because he was some fucking super hero like people on this board claim. He's in his second term and still not a peep about jobs. Which is what people across America are struggling with.

Is it me or am I too damned pissed off right now?

Oh and don't bring up political obstructionism, 30 + years ago it was called stonewalling so it's nothing fucking new. A political scholar, maybe, but he's not putting it to use for the people.

-p

[bvar22]

37. But Wall Street is BOOMING, and the 1% are doing Better than EVER!!!

These things do NOT happen by accident.




76% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/index.html


New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955

Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html

Half of America is in poverty, and its creeping toward 75%
http://www.alternet.org/economy/real-numbers-half-america-poverty-and-its-creeping-toward-75-0

Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385

As the Economy Recovers, the Wealth Gap Widens
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2013/03/11/as-the-economy-recovers-the-wealth-gap-widens

Top One Percent Captured 121 Percent Of All Income Gains
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/top-one-percent-income-gains_n_2670455.html

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc


These things ^ do NOT happen by accident.
They take careful planning, preparation, marketing, buying the right politicians, message control, and the marginalization of any opposition.





[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[woo me with science]

44. +10000

[BrotherIvan]

47. Those are some blue links worth posting

Thank you for an excellent argument.

[woo me with science]

48. ...

Incomes Flat in Recovery, but Not for the 1%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014400736

Top 1% get 121% of income gains since 2009 (100% of new income + 21% from your old income)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022384139

U.S. corporate profits stronger than ever, workers' wages fallen to lowest-ever share of GDP (CNN)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021922334

U.S. Income Inequality Now Worse Than Many Latin American Countries
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268073

Ranks of working poor increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022200197

Inequality Rages as Dwindling Wages Lock Millions in Poverty
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022198286

The Middle Class In America Is Being Wiped Out – Here Are 60 Facts That Prove It
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022144851

Child poverty rates increase unabated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268450

40 Percent of Americans Now Make Less than 1968 Minimum Wage
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111631016

Corporate Profits Have Grown By 171 Percent Under ‘Anti-Business’ Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014372334

US poverty on track to reach 46-year high; suburbs, underemployed workers, children hit hard
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002998131

Poverty, hunger among retirees increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002748342

The Economy is "Recovering" By Creating More Low-Wage Jobs... Increasingly Filled By Graduates
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022602162

"Recovery" in US is lifting profits, but not adding jobs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014414149

Obama to use pension funds of ordinary Americans to pay for bank mortgage settlements
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002205218

What Recovery? Across America, People in Distressed Cities and Small Towns Face Economic Catastrophe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022545596

Real wages decline; literally no one notices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11172387

Wall Street Soars with Wealth as Wages Stagnate, Jobs Remain in a Slump
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12526154

Wages for bottom 90% declined 1.2% during 2009-2011 recovery, top 1% income grew 8.2%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022271466

Three Minimum Wage Jobs Needed To Afford Two-Bedroom Apartment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022578738

Wages have fallen to a record low as a share of America’s gross domestic product.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022183930

The Real Numbers: Half of America in Poverty -- and It's Creeping toward 75%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002290698

[BrotherIvan]

50. My hats off to you, Sir

What a sad story that tells.

[woo me with science]

52. Yes, intolerably sad.

Thanks for the response.

[bvar22]

51. Thanks, woo.

HOW can the MSM continue to marginalize the critical importance of this to every American who Works for a Living?


How can the Democratic Party leadership continue to stroll in front of the TV cameras bragging about the [font size=3]Economic Recovery[/font]
and the "Improving Job Market"????

[Mojorabbit]

53. The media surely can't believe that people on

the street are not aware of how bad things are. They act as if we don't notice.

[Eleanors38]

74. MSM & GOP know impotence when they see it...

Do WE know it when we see it?

[woo me with science]

54. We really are at the point of

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

There has always been propaganda, bvar22, but I have never before been as creeped out by the ubiquitousness of it, and the quality...flat-out denial of what is being done.

It scares me.

[winter is coming]

62. I can remember watching the movie Network when it was first released.

I thought it was an interesting bit of dystopian fiction, but a bit over the top. Now, it looks like a friggin' documentary.

[Eleanors38]

75. After the torpedo, the carrier for a time wallowed at a list...

strangely silent in the sickly glow of back up power. One could imagine things were not all that bad had it not been for the heavy, permeating, even sweet odor of gasoline.

[Eleanors38]

77. People around me are LABORING at denial...

Perhaps that is the hope as the fever reaches its highest pitch.

[nenagh]

55. I'm bookmarking your links

Thank you...

but

[woo me with science]

56. Please pass them on.

The media, for the most part, won't put it all together in one place.

[nenagh]

58. I'm in Ontario, which isn't much help..

unfortunately..

[OneGrassRoot]

78. Me, too. Is it an OP, woo?

Thanks for this.

[Enthusiast]

81. You and bvar22 cite some nice arguments.

But these articles fall outside official narrative. And the official narrative is the one that matters. Or the only one that has impact.

If you want to know what the official narrative consists of turn on the Sunday Morning political talk shows. You know, the ones with a two or three to one Republican advantage over a middle of the road Democrat.

That's the media.

Most people do not read..............at all. They rely on simple memes and slogans like, "They hate us for our freedoms." They watch NBC, ABC and CBS news and mostly believe anything Scott Pelly tells them.

What the TV viewer will not hear is much about the wealth disparity or the working poor. That is only barely talked about on "liberal" MSNBC.

I know how the media characterized Occupy Wall Street. It was ugly. I know the MSM didn't inform the people of how widespread systemic fraud led to the crash of 2007.

We didn't need a dummied down media. We were already a poorly informed electorate. And I don't know what to do about it.

[Honeycombe8]

39. If people want cheap fast food, this is the consequence. These used to be jobs for teens.

Now, too often it's an adult trying to survive on those wages.

I hope she's teaching her kids to study hard, get an education, and do something for a living that pays decently. These fast food jobs should remain for teens, IMO.

Even if she got basic office skills, she could get an office job that pays more than this, and she'd get paid days off and basic insurance, probably.

No one ever discussed with me, when I was a teen, how to learn how much a job pays, and to consider that when choosing what to do for a living. WTF? That is SO important to everything else in a person's adult life.

[Demit]

57. What do you consider 'basic office skills' these days?

And 'study hard, get an education, and do something for a living that pays decently'?

You make it sound so easy. As if office jobs are just there for the taking. As if office jobs have the same pay and benefits that there used to be. Where have you been?

Finally, because jobs are scarce except for jobs like this woman has (50 cents an hour over minimum wage for being a manager?!) a lot of people aren't eating fast food because they WANT it. They're eating it because, as you say, it's cheap. It's what they can afford.

Sorry to pick apart your post, but I was struck by the tone it has of blaming the victim.

[reformist2]

60. Exactly. Honeycombe needs to look through the want ads and see what professionals are making.

I see ads all the time for accountant positions, where they are offering $12 an hour. Accountants!

[Phentex]

79. So true! Many want advanced education plus experience...

And offer $12.00 an hour. Some of them also want someone to fill in as needed elsewhere, meaning they want you to do two people's jobs!

[Honeycombe8]

88. So do something else. How about a secretarial job? Basic office skills, I said.

You WILL make more than $12 an hour here in my city. (BTW, accountants here get way more than $12 hr. here.).

See what I mean by planning? PLAN to find something to do for a living that pays decently & has decent benefits. So maybe accounting isn't it....it doesn't pay, you say. So check into other things.

With the internet, you can search and find job fields that are predicted to GROW. It will also give average salaries. You may have to move, too (another shocking suggestion!).

Or...the person can drop out of high school, and just go around town trying to find some company that will hire him/her to do something for some kind of wage. He/she will be applying with several hundred other people who also either don't have a skill, education, or are in hard times.

I've done both. I know. There ain't no knight in a white horse gonna come and drop money in a retirement account for any of us. You have to PLAN to find a job that pays decently. Which means you have to learn how to do something in particular (a skill or trade), or get an education (or profession). Schools should discuss these financial things with kids. Get them to thinking about the practical aspects of money. How much does a job pay? What benefits are usu. associated with it? What does a house cost? How much will monthly groceries and a car note cost? These were things I learned later in life, but wish I had been taught in my teen years.

[Phentex]

89. I was not talking about myself, only the ads

I have seen. All of what you say is good advice but it does not take away from the point that slave wages
are being offered for many positions today.

[raccoon]

90. In my area, many office jobs are hourly wage, no benes. nt

[Honeycombe8]

86. That's more than McDonald's pays. And you get paid vacation & insurance & a retirement plan.

Move to Dallas, TX, learn basic sec. skills, and start in an office job at $30,000 a year with paid vacation, insurance, and a retirement plan. Work your way up in raises to $45,000 a year...your retirement plan is built up by then. You're still getting insurance....and you probably get more paid vacation by then.

Don't be a Debbie Downer. Planning what to do for a living so that you get more than minimum wage is possible. People do it ALL THE TIME. You don't get paid more by NOT planning for a decent living, I know that.

[raccoon]

91. start in an office job at $30,000 a year ???? I have a master's and started in my job with

a little more than that salary.

Also, I say again, many office jobs are (in my area and my workplace) hourly wage, no benes.

There is something to what you say but you make it sound WAY easier than it really is.

[Honeycombe8]

85. Oh, for shame! I dared to say that someone should study hard & get an education!

How shocking! How dare I suggest that someone plan to get a job where they make more money than at McDonald's! How shocking!

Easy? You want easy? If you want easy, then you won't go to work for a fast food place.

[Arcanetrance]

92. How does one get this education when higher education has been priced out of most people's reach

A majority now go into debt getting said education. Than they go out to a workforce where there are more people than jobs. I have a friend just graduated working as a secretary basically she's in NYC making considerably less than $30,000 by the way

[Honeycombe8]

93. You work your ass off while going to a local community college

and getting an associate's degree. That's a good start. That will probably be enough to get you a start in a good job. OR you can learn a trade or skill. That's probably even better.

Or you can do nothing and take your chances at McDonald's or Burger King or Arby's. Or you can go into retail, where you have to pay for nice clothing while getting paid nothing and working atrocious hours...with no benefits.

Them's your choices.

Like Mom says:
Eat your vegetables
Go outside and get some exercise
Study hard & get an education...learn something
Get a job and be productive

(Well, MY Mom didn't say those things, but should have.)

[Arcanetrance]

94. Learning a trade or a skill I tried that I worked my ass off for ten years in the culinary industry

But I topped my earning opportunity out and got passed over cause I didn't have a piece of paper with a culinary schools name on it. I ended up finally getting that paper I had to work full time go to school and pencil in unpaid externship hours. If I didn't have an aunt and uncle who could take me in I would have been screwed. Not everyone has the luxury of just working their ass off and going to school. I'm not sure about cost of living where you live but here its next to impossible to support yourself and pay tuition.

[Honeycombe8]

97. Wow, I hate to hear that. But that's my point...

these things should be taught to teens, so they can plan a future financially. I didn't have a clue about considering what jobs pay, when I thought about working for a living. Or what things cost. Or what I'd have to make as a salary to buy a decent house and car.

One thing I did learn...the hard way is....have TWO things you can do for a living. Have a fallback skill you could possibly use, if you lose your main job. For me...it's secretarial skills. I have them. That's not what I do for a living, but I have a good set of secretarial skills that I could use as a fallback job. I could probably get a job somewhere doing some sort of secretary job. I wouldn't get paid much, since that's not what I do for a living. But it's a fallback set of skills.

I thought about that because of my growing up in a city that has a lot of union factory jobs. During a bad recession, the plants laid off a lot of people. There they were, all those workers, who couldn't do anything except operate a specific set of machines at a specific factory. They didn't have skills that were easily transferable to another job, and none of them that I know of had a second set of skills. It was horrible. Lives were ruined.

I would've told the young Arcanetrance that you have chosen a competitive but interesting field, but advised you to do some research on the job security in that field, the pay, what you need to be successful in that field, and that you should get a second set of skills along the way, to fall back on. Nothing fancy. If you are male, that could be office skills, since men now are doing more office work that used to be just females. (Unfortunately, I'm guessing that 10 years in teh culinary world meant you worked long, odd hours, which would have prevented you from doing certain things to learn a second vocation. Still, it could've been done, a little at a time.)

A similar thing happened to me. I didn't get my degree. Just halfway through. I went to school and got certificated for something particular. Over the years, many of the jobs in my field became degree-required. So my opportunities to change jobs became somewhat limited. But I was lucky in that I had a decent job, so I did okay, I guess. My specific experience and job enabled me to change jobs last year, at a "mature" age, to my surprise. I was thinking I'd have to go to my fallback set of skills (secretarial) in order to change jobs. I needed to leave where I was...it was awful after my boss died. But I found another job in my field, at a much reduced salary. Still, I found a job.

[Arcanetrance]

99. Actually I chose the culinary field because it's the only thing I ever enjoyed I took one year away

From it and I worked for my grandfather at his law office and I hated it. All I wanted was to be a chef and I was slightly ignorant on how necessary a degree would be. But I found out with the rise of the food network and popularity of cooking shows more and more people wanted to be chefs and they went to culinary school so when a sous chef position opened up that's who was getting looked at. Yes I wised up and finally did it. I remember I met an interesting restaurateur from Houston. He was telling me about schooling in Germany where he grew up and I think part of that should be adopted here. Because at a certain point they separate those that don't show academic skill and don't seem ready for college and the go into apprentice type positions where they learn a trade. That's how he learned the restaurant industry

[Honeycombe8]

95. I worked out of Dallas in NYC for a few times the last several years.

It's hard to believe someone found a job paying only $30k there. Everyone I ran into there who was doing what I do was getting paid a LOT more...but the cost of living there is much higher.

But accepting that that's true...that's a starting salary. You HAVE to accept whatever you're offered as a first job in a field. You do that for a year, then move to another place that pays you more, since you now have experience. (You're getting benefits all during this time...that's worth something.) Then you move again, if you can get a job paying more somewhere else. That's how it's done.

I'm wondering if your friend is a general office clerk or something, and she calls it secretary. A lot of people do that. A secretary is a specific job...doing admin work for a person.

If she hires on with a professional organization, such as a corporate legal division or law firm, she'll get paid more (except at first, maybe), because it requires specialized knowledge in a field.

In 10 yrs she'll be making over $45k, have a nice little 401k going, get 3 weeks paid vacation a year, and about 8 holiday days off. She can get promoted, since she has a degree (if she works for a corporation...not a law firm). In 20 years she'll be making maybe $80,000 a year, have a large 401K, and still get her paid days off.

If she got a degree in a specific field, she might get paid more if she sticks to that field. Depends on the field.

OR....learning some skill or trade or specific profession is a good way to go. Nursing, for example. Nurses rarely have trouble finding employment and can work for all sorts of organizations doing all sorts of different kinds of duties. And they get paid well, usually. Radiology technician. Court reporter (there are court reporting schools...you would not believe what those gals get paid!).

My point was...this is all handled much better during the teen years. If schools & parents would only school kids for their job and financial future (in addition to the regular subjects).

[Arcanetrance]

96. She works in one of those major investment banks I'd prefer not to name

Sadly a lot of people work in this city and don't make enough to get by. As far as her position it's answering phones and booking airline tickets and typing memos it sounds like a secretary. I do admit there are those out there that make some bad choices but the problem is its hard to get out of them sometimes. There are lots who are born into situations where they don't have the guidance at home and there's no real mentor programs

[Honeycombe8]

98. Oh, that explains it. Banks are notorious for paying badly.

My point was really about teaching TEENS about job planning and financial matters, not to blame those who now find themselves in a predicament. We did just have a bad recession, after all.

[Eleanors38]

76. I understand your frustration. The shorthand situation:

The unions are busted. The Democratic Party has "gone over." International finance is supra sovereign. The corporate state is upon us.

There is as yet no detectable opposition, and we remain impotent.

[RainDog]

82. Occupy is most definitely opposition

They offer the most viable opposition at this time, imo.

[Eleanors38]

83. Perhaps. I see them more as a barometer of what the power structure

will do. We know what they will do with little provocation. But there needs to be something more, far more.

[RainDog]

84. As that great philosopher...

Bruce Springsteen once wrote...

"From small things, momma, big things one day come."

You can tell Occupy was a threat to the power structure by the reception it got here among the corporately- inclined and by the police response.

They're still doing things - raising money to buy off student loans, for instance. They modeled a form of protest based upon direct democracy...

I wouldn't count them out yet.

they're too dangerous for any politician. but in the future, I guarantee you that Occupy's presence will have mattered for what comes after.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. The comfort of the rich require an abundant supply of the poor. - Voltaire

[Starry Messenger]

46. K&R

[RainDog]

49. We have conditions for a revolution in place

Historically, one consistent factor for revolution is a large population of educated young people with no hope for a future. This is what started the French Revolution - and, in a way, was what fueled the American Revolution.

It's also what started the current upheaval in Egypt. And the prior Iranian revolution.

Along with these educated young people with no hope for some sort of non-bondage future, poor people, who have so little to lose, are part of the army of revolutions.

Those were the people who stormed the Bastille and called for the guillotine.

The problem with revolutions is that so many "innocents" are part of the victims. But innocents are already the victims of the oligarchy, so people begin to feel they have more to gain by punishing those who created the current circumstances.

The recent legislation from Congress that raised student loan interest rates has to be one of the stupidest decisions from the Koch suckers that they could make.

They are beyond the point of overreach with all the legislation aimed at denying poor women health care (because the real goal of the recent legislation is to shut down planned parenthood entirely - with all the health care services they provide.)

At this point, I would not be sad if people decided enough is enough. I'd be inclined to see them as freedom fighters.

Because conservative and neo-liberal economic policy has gone too far.

Serfdom isn't sustainable.

[reformist2]

59. No revolution needed, just wealth redistribution.

[RainDog]

61. the old saw is: evolution or revolution

the New Deal was evolution.

but if those in power continue to seek to undo the New Deal - and if legislation and judicial action continues to favor the rich at the expense of the poor and middle class...

if politicians do not respond to the suffering of the majority and they have gerrymandered districts to make it impossible to vote into power those who would change things...

you have the conditions for a revolution.

of course I would prefer evolution.

But conditions create the climate for what happens, and I was just noting the conditions are there. The political class in the U.S. seems just as blind to the conditions they are creating as the French aristocracy.

Emmanuel Todd, a French demographer who predicted the fall of the Soviet Union back when Reagan was selling Star Wars snake oil, also talked about conditions in the U.S. for the fall of the American empire.

Conditions here are similar to conditions in the USSR, in terms of an entrenched political oligarchy, totalitarian oversight and intimidation, and a lack of options for educated young people (and women - women are important in this equation in and of themselves, as far as backlash against pigs like the ones in power in the current Republican Party.)

Anyway, I read his work back in the mid-2000s. Pretty interesting.

He predicted the fall of the Soviet Union in a book published in 1976, but the work was done even before publication, of course.

[reformist2]

68. Here's the bottom line - the rich 1% are not deserving of 90% of the wealth, and 99% of us know it.

The differences in education and ability just aren't great enough anymore to justify such income and wealth disparities. Many fast-food workers could easily be executives at small or medium-sized companies, and many CEOs should be working at fast-food joints.

[Apophis]

63. I would love to see a revolution in this country against the 1%.

They've become too powerful.

[RainDog]

65. I'd prefer to see legislative change

because, as I noted, too many people get hurt - although those same situations create the opportunities for others to come to the forefront of their world.

I spent a few years studying aspects of the French Revolution - a really fascinating time - that was also the time of the birth of anarchism in England (William Godwin), the first English-language feminist writer (Mary Wollstonecraft), the first politically active atheist campaign (Thomas Paine)... Wollstonecraft and Paine both witnessed the Revolution first hand and wrote about it for English-speakers.

Henry VIII gets the nod for being the first to actually undo/change a nation's religion, but the French either executed or forced into exile the leaders of the state church and attempted to establish a religion based upon the ideas of the time... they did other whacky stuff, too, like rename the calendar...

And their actions had profound, negative impacts upon people in places that followed with revolutions of their own.

so, revolution has its own horrors.

like I said... I prefer evolution.

[RainDog]

69. another interesting parallel to the French Revolution

is this -

The French helped to finance the American Revolution (to spite their nemesis, England), and two other wars, one after another. At the time, France was a global superpower. They thought it was their business to interfere and influence other nations' destinies (and they were competing with GB, which thought the same thing.)

The problem was that the King couldn't get the aristocrats to pay taxes to pay to fund the wars (just as Bush started two wars and also passed legislation for tax cuts at the same time.) The govt borrowed from rich individuals - cause, back then, they had people who were rich enough to be bankers for entire nations... just like now.

Rather than accept the need to pay taxes for their privileges, the aristocrats put the burden of taxation to pay for the war on the middle class and the poor.

The clergy and the aristocrats were the 10% - but they owned 90% of all the wealth in the nation - and they were the groups with the power to influence who paid taxes - and they said... let poor people pay... we're too important to pay taxes.

The clergy and the aristocracy were only 10% of the population. The 90% they expected to pay for the wars, however, only held 10% of the wealth... which wasn't even as bad as it is now!

Among those expected to pay, while the richest paid nothing, were the educated middle and upper middle classes.

They, not the poor, are the ones who actually started the revolution because they had had enough of the bullshit from the clergy and the aristocracy - and they were the ones who represented the 90% as the "third estate."

In the U.S., that would be the House of Representatives, in a way. But our House of Representatives is no longer representative of the political and economic wishes of the majority of the nation. So, in the current situation, the 99% are virtually locked-out of any hope of change through the legislative process.

That's a pretty stunning realization.

The branch of the U.S. govt. that is supposed to be most representative of the electorate has been taken over by the aristocrats. The branch of the U.S. govt. that is supposed to be able to address the problems that come from the elitist Senate and executive branches is no longer functioning as it was intended to do - because Republicans won the House in 2010 and gerrymandered their way to a majority - that's a majority in name only - because their policies, in poll after poll, and, even more importantly, in studies of what Americans want their country to do, economically (income distribution) are against the wishes of the American people.

What are people supposed to do when a political party or faction takes over a branch of govt and refuses to respond to the will of the people and, instead, brings forward measures like the closure of Planned Parenthood, (Rubio is on that like a rapist on rye), or does things like the legislatures in various states have done, with Planned Parenthood, removal of the social safety net, turning entire cities over to private individuals, gutting teachers' unions and attempting to destroy public education... and, of course, that attempt to destroy public education has become bipartisan in places like Chicago.

What do they expect after these sorts of actions?

[winter is coming]

64. Another problem with revolutions is that after a lot of turmoil and bloodshed,

you can end up with a society just as bad as the former one: a different group of people may be on top, but the everyday peon isn't any better off.

[RainDog]

67. I agree

they also are usually the start of a long period of revolutions with different factions gaining or losing power.

but sometimes they happen anyway because those in positions of power lack the foresight to stop creating the conditions for them.

[Bonobo]

66. If it was still pitchforks and ace-handles, we would have had one. nt

[nebenaube]

70. exactly...

And it's being staged.

[RainDog]

71. care to elaborate?

the only thing I see happening now is the 1% fucking over the 99%.

what do you see that's revolution?

[nebenaube]

72. What?

Are you trying to bait me? I was responding to an opinion that I agreed with. I also think there is a conspiracy involved. As a poster on the internet, in a discussion forum, it's a defacto
right. So bugger off.

[RainDog]

73. you responded to me

so I was asking you to elaborate.

this is a discussion forum, as you noted.

thanks for the discussion.

you're really charming.

[Agschmid]

87. Kick, because this is actually important. n/t