General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI stopped for gas today and saw these taped to the posts holding up the canape.
A while back, I worked out the cost difference between the two types of gas. I adjusted the gallons used the same in my calculations, so as to make the caparison easier. Everything else are real numbers. My car is a 2004 model, with a 4 cylinder engine. It doesn't like ethanol. My last car didn't either.
That is $250 a year savings by using the more expensive, non-ethanol gas.
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bluedigger
(17,273 posts)
Cirque du So-What
(28,631 posts)Those who fill up with premium deserve to be treated with a nice tray of horses dovers.
Brigid
(17,621 posts) Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)
bluedigger
(17,273 posts)It just slipped out. 
Kurovski
(34,657 posts)But please, no funky chicken.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Kurovski
(34,657 posts)Or they'll tell you to quiche-off.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Some would relish telling me off, and I'm afraid I'd have to tell them to stuff their mushroom where the sun don't shine.
Kurovski
(34,657 posts)I butter not.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I think I loined that from Paula Deen.
Kurovski
(34,657 posts)Shish!
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Don't be so caviar, you big papadum! I don't take well to criticism from a pu pu head. You've got some Rocky Mountain Oysters to treat me that way! That is a gravlax offense!
Samosa we berry the hatchet and tart over...I'm willing to shellfish olive my weapuns.
Kurovski
(34,657 posts)That's "platter" to you. I see you've slaved over a hot keyboard to prepare this feast. Delicious. You win the astronomical gastronomical typesetter's award for 2013. 
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)But I always get a kick out of your posts. Some of us have to work our asses off, but you have a knackwurst for it. Fortunately for the restive us, we've learned to groan and beer it. 
Atman
(31,464 posts) 
Demit
(11,238 posts)edited to correct my own spelling of aigu. LOL
lindisfarne
(4,392 posts)A few years ago, I lived where I could buy gas without any ethanol or with up to 10%. My increased mileage was always worth paying the extra for the gas without ethanol - I got about 10% higher on highway driving (55-60mph).
Manufacturers are opposed to ethanol content of gasoline being increased to 15% because they say it can damage parts of cars. I've always wondered if up to 10% ethanol content does damage to at least some parts, but it's just less quick to occur/less noticeable.
I don't think I believe the claim in the flier that premium gets enough better mileage to justify the increased price.
But it is true that the energy content of gasoline without ethanol is higher. A gallon of ethanol has less energy content than 100% gasoline (and 90% gasoline/10% ethanol also has less energy content than 100% gasoline).
I'd email the flier to whatever state agency regulates business claims, along with the location of the gas station. It is misleading.
Buy the gasoline recommended by the car manufacturer.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Ethanol has about 70% of the energy content, per gallon, as gasoline.
A mix that is 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol should have 97% of the energy of an equivalent amount of pure gasoline. In other words, only a 3% reduction.
My car can run on E85, but the nearest station is over 50 miles away. I've never tried it.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)Caveat: It was a straight up constant speed endurance test.
My take is, the higher energy fuels offer better mileage in stop start driving, when you need the power, but the slower burning 10% ethanol fuel made for a longer burning, more efficient (less hammerlike) power stroke when the engine was running in its "sweet spot".
So, fill up on 95 octane or premium if you do a lot of city driving, but for that long distance holiday run to the middle of nowhere, switch to the E10.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)A Canadian show called "Marketplace" had the same result with the endurance test.
I never buy premium. We'll see if my engine craps out. I think mid-grade is recommended. Too bad for my vehicle - not while gas prices are $1.19/L for regular.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)A fuel which provides a longer gentler shove maintains constant angular momentum better than one which imparts all of its energy in one hard slam.
And if you look at steam, which applies a CONSTANT push throughout the ENTIRE (assuming double action) piston stroke, the above makes sense, and in fact you can even do better still. A 1930's steam motor can push a 5000+ lb vehicle, with about the same overall fuel efficiency as a infernal combustion engine pushing half that weight. (About 45 MPG. 2.5 tons (give or take) at 45 MPG in a vehicle built in 1936 and still running today, and with its first engine rebuild taking place 50 odd years, and a few million kilometers after assembly: 4 thou wear in the bore, and a heated debate over replacing the piston rings.)
Can you tell me what's wrong with this car? Bingo. NO AFTER MARKET!
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)but I do buy only non ethanol regular and it is cost efficient and more power.
RC
(25,592 posts)Otherwise I would have checked that out too.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)One of them even sells it at the same price as their Regular ethanol mix.
I always buy the eth-free gas for my many small engines (lawn mowers, tiller, small tractors, weed cutters, outboard motor, chainsaws, etc.) & often put it into my truck at the same time. It's clearly better for the small engines, which have many components such as gaskets & small synthetic parts (nylon, plastic, etc.) that don't handle alcohol well. However, I haven't consistently noticed improved mileage, even though I agree in principle that alcohol has less energy per volume than petrol. The stuff we get around here is generally 10% ethanol, so, even if eth has 30% less energy (I don't know what the real # is), then a gallon of mixed petrol-eth would have only 3% less energy than the 100% petrol.
But engines are funny analog devices, and there's no reason to dispute your numbrs in your specific situation.
sweetloukillbot
(12,743 posts)Regular low octane (no ethanol) was 10-25 cents more expensive than mid-grade octane (with ethanol). Never bothered checking the premium because my car never ran significantly better on it. I used the mid grade because it was cheaper and I was very tight, but I did notice a drop in gas mileage, although not in performance. There was also flex-fuel that was mostly ethanol that was about $1 cheaper. I knew a couple people that would run their regular cars with that, but they were constantly complaining about performance and mileage. I tried to explain that they didn't have flex-fuel vehicles and shouldn't be doing that, but all they saw was the price tag.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)Much closer than going over to the Kansas side.
BTY, it is Hy-Vee on 23rd.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Ethanol is killing my '89 Toyota.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)IIRC 1940's V-dubs will run perfectly fine on straight METHANOL, which is far more reactive than ethanol.
Two choices, update, or stop using replacement parts degradable by alcohol.
Drew Richards
(1,558 posts)I get some diesling after long haul....increased engine heat and a lean bank 1 error that goes away the second I use non ethanol gas.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)'diesling'? 'a lean bank I error'?
A HERETIC I AM
(24,815 posts)As when you shut it off and it keeps running for a short time.
His other comment refers to a malfunction code he is getting on his vehicles engine control module.
Hope he doesn't mind me stepping in to answer.
Drew Richards
(1,558 posts)A engine cylinder is not getting enough fuel but the second I get good gas its gone.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)Have a mower in which the bore and piston are at opposite ends of their allowable tolerances. It takes 30 plus seconds of winding with an electric drill to get the bastard to start, and it fouls the plug after about ten hours of use, no matter what fuel I put in it.
Dieseling might mean, you got the other end of the stick and tolerances are just a fraction on the tight side.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)check every quarter and another tax break every year.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)7-11 is a good place, but they don't sell the real gasoline, only the ethanol stuff.
I hear they treat their employes right.
The Hy-Vee on Hwy 40 & Nolan Rd only sells the ethanol gas.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Is 7/11 gasoline any good??
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Any place which sells stimulants as fake Viagra would only carry the finest products.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,265 posts) 
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Gas Station Tele-Vision
TheCowsCameHome
(40,265 posts)How did we ever live without that? Now you can pump gas down your leg while looking at the weather map.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Why waste time away from the tee vee? The GSTV keeps me informed of bargains and values inside the station. Standing in line at the post office, I can see CNN and read the scroll of stock prices zooming by. At the grocer's, a tee vee tells me what Fox and Fiends are saying. In the auto repair shop waiting room, a talking head helps me think. I'm in heaven.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Then why are the Democrats in Congress supporting it?
RC
(25,592 posts)Any more (D) is just a lite (R). They just slow the descent a bit.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Not only did the Democratic Governor of Idaho, Cecil Andrus, sign the use of ethanol in Idaho into law, he became the Secretary of the Interior under President Carter.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)
RC
(25,592 posts)the corn, fertilizing it, harvesting, hauling and fermenting, distilling. None of that needed energy comes from the finished product. It all comes from fossil fuels.
From an energy stand point, ethanol barely breaks even. This country has been sold a bill of goods in so far as how we make and use ethanol.
caraher
(6,332 posts)that I don't think Big Oil is too worried.
Though the ethanol industry's PR stance is they are patriotic heroes saving us from the petroleum industry.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)There is only one place in the entire Metro area that sells ethanol-free gas. I've used it for small engines, but it's much too far away to be a realistic fill up location for my car. Fingers crossed there may be a closer place sometime this year.
Fuck ADM and fuck the fucking politicians who sell us out to them.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)
edgineered
(2,101 posts)although i do not have a supporting link, the info on the differences is readily available through a simple search.
as a motorcycle mechanic i have done much research on this, and tune the older bikes i work on to run their best. increasing the fuel flow by 3% makes up for the lesser available energy in ethanol. most times i will increase the fuel by 5 or 6% - this makes my customers very happy. on occasion i have gone as high as an 8% increase for those who pull trailers or usually carry heavier loads.
at any rate, it is not a 30% difference - not even close - its 3%.
RC
(25,592 posts)Gas mileage gets worse as you increase the percentage of ethanol. E85 will barely gets you between gas stations. I've had first hand experience driving a E85 vehicle out of town. 130 miles or so on a tank. That's ridicules.
The 30 to 34% is the energy difference between straight ethanol and straight gasoline.
When adjusting the A/F mixtures, did you also advance the spark a bit?
edgineered
(2,101 posts)as far as advancing the spark, it gets a bit more involved. bikes with mechanical advances are becoming harder to find these days. more on that below.
today's bikes have the advance curve built into the ignition unit; the trigger on the flywheel and the pick-up coil are fixed in position. that position is fully advanced and the ignition module only works to retard the timing. depending on whether there are 'extras', like a throttle position sensor, O2 sensors, knock sensors, etc, not much can be done without going aftermarket.
a higher octane fuel is less sensitive to detonation and will allow one to advance the timing without pre-ignition. too much timing advance will cause the mixture to be fully burning before reaching 6 degrees after TDC, increasing cylinder temperature and reducing horsepower, whether there is a ping or knock or not.
increasing the fuel available allows you to open up the intake some, and if you've done everything right you will have actually increased your mileage. most do not understand that you can have better mileage and more power, efficiency is a wonderful thing!
rdharma
(6,057 posts)I'm not blaming this on author of the OP....... that's just the way it is on the internets!
Google "Ad Choice"! 
farmbo
(3,143 posts)Ethanol is home grown and renewable...those dollars and jobs originate and stay in the US, not Saudi Arabia or Iraq, where Big Oil maintains control.
The API and the Koch Bros are bankrolling a no- holds-bared assault on our Renewable Fuel Standard and the result is "grass roots" posters like this.
BTW... We've all been using 10% ethanol in virtually all of our cars since the early 90s. If there were serious problems it would be common knowledge. The USEPA has now approved 15% ethanol and the Koch's have pulled out all the stops.
RC
(25,592 posts)Slightly better than break even... at best. What little is save by adding it to our gasoline, is countered by the 30% less energy content ethanol has. The vehicle does not go as far, so it costs more to operate.
Also the land used for growing corn for ethanol is land we cannot use for growing food. Therefore the price of food goes up.
Corn is fertilizer and water intensive. The water quite often comes from wells, drilled into aquifers. That fertilizer is made from natural gas. How do you feel about frakin? There really is such a thing as flammable water at people's kitchen faucets. Just ask some of the farmers and ranchers in North Western North Dakota.
Ethanol is nothing more than a government subsidy for the corn farmers. The rest of us are paying for that, several times over. The corn growers have a good lobby in WDC.
I have lived for 45 years in North Dakota, a rural farm state. So I do know something about the economy and how it works, up there. Including the problems of ethanol, in both making it and using it.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)And it's one I agree with you 100% using corn to make ethanol is more armchair greenie distracting boondoggle than environmental responsibility.
Cellulosic ethanol on the other hand may have some potential. However, algal diesel looks to be better still.
One way or the other, we (and in "we" I include those 'merkins who do things like buy and drive Hummers because, just because) have to stop burning carboniferous age dead forests for fuel. We'll have to accept the mileage penalty of electric vehicles, or switch to liquid fuels made from contemporary sources.
And the sooner we do it, the sooner we can stop it with this Snowden style BS, where the majority of the angst and argey-bargey comes down to the belief that the USA is: a) entitled to its DELIBERATELY wasteful ways; and b) the rest of the world can willingly or otherwise cater to that "need".
bluedigger
(17,273 posts)I suggest you deride Ford F-150s and Chevy Suburbans to stay current.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best/bestworstEPAtrucksNF.shtml
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...from The Simpsons as my exemplar. Come to think of it, like Charlie Chaplin, it probably would have had more recognition.
bluedigger
(17,273 posts)Those would sell like hot cakes around here. 
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)Even my poor Google-fu could have found that.
:shame:
Whoops I meant to preview. And clearly we need a shame smilie.
Skittles
(166,338 posts)johnd83
(593 posts)It changes the emissions profile of gasoline and reduces CO emissions. The result is a cleaner burn for the most part. CO is a more potent greenhouse gas because of interactions in the upper atmosphere.
RC
(25,592 posts)Fueling the automobile fleet primarily with ethanol rather than gasoline might increase air pollution, a new study finds
Ethanol as a fuel offers a host of potential benefits, according to its supporters. It can be grown and refined primarily in the U.S., whether made from corn, switchgrass or cellulose. It is already being used as a fuel additive—to help gasoline burn more completely and, thus, cut down on air pollution. And, because it is made from plants that pull carbon dioxide from the air, it does not add additional greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, which are driving climate change. But a new study shows that it will not help clear the nation's skies of smog; on the contrary, it could increase the levels of that dangerous pollution.
Environmental engineer Mark Jacobson of Stanford University used a computer model to assess how the air pollution in the U.S. would react if vehicles remained primarily fueled by gasoline in 2020 or if the fleet transferred to a fuel that was a blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline, so-called E85. Under the latter scenario, levels of the cancer-causing agents benzene and butadiene dropped, whereas those of formaldehyde and acetaldehyde rose: In other words, it was a wash.
Because burning ethanol can potentially add more smog-forming pollution to the atmosphere, however, it can also exacerbate the ill effects of such air pollution. According to Jacobson, burning ethanol adds 22 percent more hydrocarbons to the atmosphere than does burning gasoline and this would lead to a nearly two parts per billion increase in tropospheric ozone. This surface ozone, which has been linked to inflamed lungs, impaired immune systems and heart disease by prior research, would in turn lead to a 4 percent increase in the number of ground level ozone-related deaths, or roughly 200 extra deaths a year. "Due to its ozone effects, future E85 may be a greater overall public health risk than gasoline," Jacobson writes in the study published in Environmental Science & Technology. "It can be concluded with confidence only that E85 is unlikely to improve air quality over future gasoline vehicles."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=reduce-air-pollution-do-not-rely-on-ethanol
MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)Please stop with the false data.
Ethanol has a higher octane rating and in a properly tuned engine has better performance.
doc03
(38,179 posts)That is why high performance engines need high octane. The high compression will ignite the gas without a spark, that why it is referred to as dieseling. Back when they first started taking lead out of gas a lot of cars would diesel, you could prevent that by using a higher octane gas. Ethanol doesn't have a more energy it is harder to ignite that's why they use it in high compression engines.
RC
(25,592 posts)Octane is the rating of anti-knock of gasoline. Ethanol burns slower than gasoline, so therefor has a higher octane rating. Ethanol has a 30% less energy than the same volume of gasoline.
doc03
(38,179 posts)MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)What is the energy output of ethanol in modern European cars designed to burn it properly?
Does ethanol lose to gasoline when used in the proper engines?
RC
(25,592 posts)With the higher compression ratio and advanced spark and different spark curve needed, it cannot be made to run on gasoline very well.
MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)I just think people should put a figurative footnote when saying ethanol has less energy.
Now there is much debate to be had about the bullshit tax or "subsidies" we all pay for ethanol, whether we get more bang for our buck or not, and how much food prices are affected, but like solar energy let's not allow Europe to kick our asses with another technology we helped design.
It's really easy for second rate mechanics to claim that a 20 year old car with 150K miles on it or an improperly maintained lawn mower, broke down from E10 fuel. Probably not true but it is easy to say and sounds convincing.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... power output from an engine with energy content of the fuel. My son is a "tuner" and tunes turbocharged cars for both straight high octane gasoline and ethanol blends. Yes, an engine can be tuned to generate awesome performance on ethanol, especially at higher boost and thus compression, but it will get much less gas mileage, as there is less total energy per gallon of fuel. He has a 98 Acura Integra with a blueprinted, turbo'ed, high boost engine. He runs E85 in it. Awesome power (over 600HP to the front wheels) but really lousy mileage.
doc03
(38,179 posts)small engines, motorcycle engines and high performance engines. Ask a mechanic, especially a small engine or outboard mechanic. Ethanol is just a gift to the farm lobby. I saw information on a new car sticker yesterday about E-85 fuel. I forget the exact numbers but the distance from a tank of real gasoline was around 400 miles and with E-85 it was around 280 miles. Myself I had to replace the fuel line on my outboard this year, ethanol destroyed it. I also had to buy a new weed whacker, the seals and fuel line were melted buy the ethanol in gas. I have been told by mechanics to either use ethanol free gas or high test gas in my small engines because it has less ethanol in it and to treat it all with Marine Stabile or Sea Foam.
MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)about destroying high performance engines on? High performance needs to be better defined since many cars designed to properly run on E85 will shame traditional gasoline cars.
doc03
(38,179 posts)MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)Nothing
doc03
(38,179 posts)that cost $5000 to replace because the farm lobby wants to use food for fuel. I already replaced my weed wacker, push mower, a chain saw and leaf blower the few years because of ethanol.
MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)Wouldn't that be basic PMCS? If replaced with newer gaskets, they would not be a problem and if not replaced in 25 years, it seems strange to blame ethanol.
doc03
(38,179 posts)ethanol is especially bad because they weren't designed to use such fuel. Most of
those collectors cars are the old high performance muscle cars of the 60s and 70s.
MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)Ethanol destroyed the gaskets, hoses and various elastomers in old cars, as well as the need to tune the car properly for ethanol use.
Classic cars can be converted to ethanol use.
doc03
(38,179 posts)does destroy engines just like me and others have said. If that is the case just why in the fuck are we being forced to buy the stuff?
MattBaggins
(7,945 posts)
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Which can be stopped by converting the gaskets and fuel lines.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)and what are most engines made from nowadays?
Bottomline: if ADM hadn't forced you to put it in your car by buying off your politicians, you would not be putting it in there if you cared about your engine.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)But ethanol corrosion for aluminum comes from liquid ethanol on aluminum. Because it is atomized and almost immediately ignited, the exposure time within a cylinder is minimal or essentially non-existent. When people talk about potential damage to aluminum, they are talking about metal parts within the fuel system.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)you're getting duped. High octane gas is LESS explosive... making it more resistant to detonation. Easy way to get more octane... just add a little water to the air/fuel mixture.
Ethanol is has 30% less energy than regular gas, but typical gasoline only has 10% ethanol. Therefore, you'd lose 3% in MPG not 20%... your numbers are way off there.
10% ethanol blend does absolutely nothing to damage cars.
RC
(25,592 posts)I have a small note book in my car, where I input mileage at fill up. Date. Amount in gallons of fill. Trip mileage, which I then reset. And the cost of the fill.
I've been doing this for something like 40 years. My number are not off.
Edited to add: I use the Premium because the non-ethanol regular is not available in the area.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Which means it is more resistant to heat from compression than lower octane fuel. This allows for a more energy dense air-fuel mixture. Which is, in turn, what can produce more power.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)with either high compression or turbo. Most cars aren't tuned with that kind of compression. The OP has a 2004 I4... I can't think of a single four banger from that year engine outside of a Audi turbo that would benefit from higher octane.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)railsback
(1,881 posts)Anywho, I think I will try out your calculations and see if I can notice the difference.
RC
(25,592 posts)No worries here.
doc03
(38,179 posts)finds ethanol free gas just popped up right here on DU. 
Warpy
(113,745 posts)My car doesn't get bad indigestion on the lowest grade gasohol but I've noticed it's happier overall on the medium grade gasohol.
That station would never get my business. Gasohol cuts down considerably on pollution here in the valley, a major concern in the winter.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Because internal combustion engines operate on fairly complicated physical principles. If the engine has limited compression, air and fuel supply and spark, then it doesn't matter at all that the fuel has greater potential energy.
Now it might be the case that this fuel sees better gas mileage. But that is not alone the product of a more energetic fuel. It's more complex than that.
olddots
(10,237 posts)it runs like shit but boy is my windshield clean .
actually if you trust anything the oil or ethanol corps say you might as well fill it up with cleaning products because they have us over a barrel .
MineralMan
(149,566 posts)I'm heading right over there. I hope they're not all gone.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I'm nacho they'll be around long. Samosa them are already gone.
ileus
(15,396 posts)I'd buy 93 for everything we own IF it were an option in my area.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)try looking here
http://pure-gas.org/
As I said in my other post, I had no improvement in gas mileage with higher octane gasoline in the last vehicle I owned and the landscape company I work for uses high octane only in our small engines. I think you should double check your numbers but if you want to buy ethanol free fuel it should be a possibility.
ileus
(15,396 posts)I add sta bil to all our small engines and my jeep.
2 mowers, tiller, generator, snowblower, 2 dirtbikes, 2 weedeaters and a chainsaw.
I never bothered with the 2 cycles until last week when I bought a weed eater that come with a free sample and the owners manual recommended using it with ethanol blends.
Only our two daily drivers are ignored.
I know for our two daily drivers I can't tell any difference in the mileage (accord and xterra) I may have lost a couple of mpg in the accord on winter blend over old winter blends but I can't say for sure. Summer blend seems to be the same as always.
I know for sure it's turns our 4 stroke dirtbike carbs into crap if you let them sit for over a month.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)I did a similar test with my last vehicle and I had NO.. as in None, nada, zip, zilch, zero.... change in MPG. (a '96 Saturn with a 4 cyl.)
If we assume you are comparing an 87 octane with 95 octane you are only increasing the octane by ~9.2%. A ~25% increase in in MPG doesn't make much sense.
Just for the record, I work for a landscape company and we use higher octane gasoline in our small engines (mostly the 2 cycle engines) so I am familiar with the need for higher octane for some machines and have real world experience with in on a daily basis.
RC
(25,592 posts)Octane doesn't have anything to do with the energy content of the fuel. Octane is a rating of anti-knock - how fast a fuel burns. My car has a low enough compression ratio, the low end gas works. The problem is ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline. Adding ethanol to gasoline dilutes the energy content. Unless a vehicle can detect the amount of ethanol in the gasoline and adjust accordingly, the gas mileage will drop.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)I knew Ethanol had less energy but I didn't know it was that much. I learned something today, thanks for that.
http://zfacts.com/p/436.html
^snip^
How much should you pay for E10 and E85?
If regular gas is $3.00/gallon you should pay
$2.90 / gallon for E10 (10% ethanol).
$2.13 / gallon for E85 (85% ethanol).
If regular gas is $2.00/gallon you should pay
$1.93 / gallon for E10 (10% ethanol).
$1.42 / gallon for E85 (85% ethanol).
Then you will be paying the same amount per mile driven.
The formula is this: For EX, where X is the percent ethanol
Ethanol price should = Gasoline price times (100 – X + X/1.52)/100
Notice that 100 – X is the percent of gas and X/1.52 is the percent of ethanol adjusted down by about 2/3 because it has less energy.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)these are canapes.
Kurovski
(34,657 posts)You're a good sport, rc! and it's also a good OP, forgive the hijacking, please! 
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I also was impressed. But I suspect the the thread title was crafted as it was intentionally.
Kurovski
(34,657 posts)so we'd kick it?! you ARE cynical Mr. Pinboy!
Either way: to RC 
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)It's no CALL CONGRESS! RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!! But it did succeed in sucking US in, didn't it? We fell for it and gave it more miles-per-gallon.
bluedigger
(17,273 posts)
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I hardly even knew 'er!
bluedigger
(17,273 posts)
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I know this has to end sometime, but I still falafel about it. 