METADATA HYPERBOLE? Moral Mondays protestor shaming site by NC-GOP operative (govt help?)

[nashville_brook]

I guess it's to be expected that we'd would be of different minds on the NSA spying situation. In any given group of people you're going to have some who are more skeptical of concentrated power...and those who actually feel more secure when there's a "big brother" somewhere "taking care of things."

This KOS diary does a pretty good job of illustrating the actual problem with our current NSA spying situation. We're not talking about "official" government business anymore.

This is a public/private partnership model of mass surveillance. It has little to do with what President Obama would do with your data. The problem doesn't reside in Obama. The problem resides within a matrix of private contractors, subcontractors, and consultants who are constrained only by the worst impulses of the nastiest tea party pooh-bahs on the planet... such as Art Pope of North Carolina.

This is why people have their hair on fire about NSA spying.

If you don't see a problem with this, maybe it's because you don't see yourself ever doing anything that would raise the ire of those in power. Or perhaps you don't have clear understanding of what power really is...or what it likes to in its spare time.

If that's the case, then this article is definitely for you...because this is what unfettered power is ALREADY DOING. Is there any way to see this except as intimidation, defamation and reprisal? Is this the world you want your kids to inherit?

Is this a world in which anything resembling "Democracy" is possible?

Here's what happens when someone wants to use your "public" info to intimidate you.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/04/1221178/-Here-s-what-happens-when-some-wants-to-use-your-public-info-to-intimidate-you

http://www.nccivitas.org/moralmonday/

(snip)

Let me point you to how the GOP in North Carolina is using people's data to intimidate them...now...today...and possibly with government assistance.

If you've been following current events in North Carolina you know the recently empowered GOP legislature (and GOP governor) have been on a roll to slash and burn healthcare, unemployment benefits, taxes on the wealthy and corporations...

In response, thousands of North Carolinians have gone to the capital building to peacefully protest. Hundreds have been arrested...booked, finger-printed...mug shots...the whole banana. These are the Moral Monday protestors we're talking about...good citizens from all walks of life.

Lo and behold, the Civitas Institute..a right-wing "think tank" and public policy influence organization founded and financed by Gazillionaire retailer Art Pope...who is also the appointed NC Budget Director...immediately put up several web pages with all the collected info on the arrested protestors.


(snip)


So...you're a good citizen peacefully protesting...you're arrested for trespassing...and now here you are on the intertoobs...your name, address, sex, age, race, party, occupation, employer, salary if available, alleged voter registration violation (address not matching registration)....etc. There has been some speculation as to just how the Civitas folks were able to get all the data so rapidly...implying possible cooperation from someone in government.

Look! a fun GAME!






When you're done playing that you can look up the salaries of protestors...this should really tickle the rage nuts in NC!





And just because data is so damn fun...here's all of it, including whether your drivers license address matching your VOTER RECORDS!!





As if you had to ask...YES...they're mostly Democrats!





Metadata MEGA FUN PACK for hours of FUN FUN FUN!!






BONUS POLL!!
After reading this are you more likely or less likely to protest at your state capitol?

9 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	more likely -- because that is how i roll
	6 (67%)
	less likely -- because i cannot lose my job
	3 (33%)
	neither more nor less likely -- because: I do not do protests
	0 (0%)
	neither more nor less likely -- because: i live in a BLUE state and this does not apply to me
	0 (0%)
	neither more nor less likely -- because: only presidential politics matter
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[DirkGently]

1. Hey, blacklists are the new black!

[nashville_brook]

2. they're completely harmless as long as you are.

[DirkGently]

4. Right. Just don't sign the wrong petition, or anything.

MADISON, Wis. — Gov. Scott Walker refused to say Thursday why he withdrew his nomination to the University of Wisconsin Board of Regents of a UW-Platteville student who signed a petition to recall him from office.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/211392241.html

So long as you haven't pissed off a Republican at any time, you have nothing to fear.

Nothing at all.

[nashville_brook]

9. and to be clear...they're looking for anything that can be used as a cudgel.

you have to dig pretty deep into data to get to a petition signing. there's many people who'd say you'd have to be pretty paranoid to think that stuff would be used against anyone.

[RainDog]

15. It was used against my next-door-neighbor

Back in the Bush years. At least, as far as he could figure out, that's the only reason for the visit from the FBI, beyond the fact that he asked the local newspaper why these low-flying planes kept hovering over the city.

then one of the initial agencies had to state they were just looking, not using night vision or heat-tracking equipment on their planes.

and...weeks later... voila! the FBI shows up.

[nashville_brook]

31. they say that 'paranoia' was all the intellectual style of the 70s

i have a feeling we'll be seeing an update to that style.

[DirkGently]

19. Not mention it's 1/4 of the voters in the entire state.

This is the mindset: Destroy those who disagree.

And this is the tool they need: personal information on everyone.

[nashville_brook]

45. once they have the information, they just release it and wait for the crazies to act on it

in whatever way they might see fit.

[DirkGently]

46. It's exactly the kind of information -- pictures, employment -- malicious people seek.

[nashville_brook]

47. yes, we see them here with their cameras all the time :)

[DirkGently]

53. They've been known to say, pick through people's trash for

exactly this kind of stuff.

[nashville_brook]

62. now they can pick through your trash from the comfort of their parents' basement.

[dgibby]

29. Of course,

just posting on DU could probably earn you hard time in the big house if the repukes ever regain the WH and Congress.

[nashville_brook]

34. from where we stand now, a GOP (zombie) apocalypse wouldn't seem unexpected

they'd be completely empowered and nothing to stop them.

but i'm just as troubled by dems, greens and independents having this information. i trust no one with sort of power.

[RainDog]

8. to go with their blackshirts! n/t

[nashville_brook]

32. and jack boots to finish the look

Last edited Fri Jul 5, 2013, 09:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[Uncle Joe]

3. Nothing to see here folks, just move along.

Thanks for the thread, nashville_brook.

[nashville_brook]

27. :)

[magellan]

5. Holy crap. For PROTESTING?

Is this legal? Just because someone's arrested for protesting this Civitas site can legally display all this information about them?

Okay, I choose OTHER -- there's no way in hell I'm protesting if there's a chance of being arrested and having all my personal data thrown onto the internet in one place for the "other side" to play with as they like. There are too many unstable people out there who'll take advantage of that information. Also, this kind of thing can not only lose you your current job but make it very difficult to get another, once your prospective employers find it.

APPALLING. This is exactly what we fear the NSA/government can and will do with our information. If it silences even one person it's anti-democratic.

[DirkGently]

6. And that's just how public information can be collated & used.

... imagine what they can do with more.

[Pholus]

58. Yes. But we're libertarians to point that out. nt

[nashville_brook]

7. lately i've been told by folks that they feel conservatives want people to fight

not just fight in words...but to take out those stockpiled guns and start shooting some lib'ruls.

this Civitas website feeds that sort of animus. especially when they publish contact information and salary...would you want your daughter's information to be presented to the public like this? it's as if they're saying, "go get 'em cowboys."

[magellan]

12. It only took one incident with a rwer to convince me they'd go that far

And it happened to my husband, not me. His crime was driving our car with anti-Bush** stickers on it. Some ugly jerk actually confronted him in the parking lot of a store about it. The only thing that saved him from a fight was his British accent and explaining to the guy that he couldn't even vote.

Some of them are rabid; we live near a few who actually ran a census taker off their property with their dogs. I've become less and less interested in displaying my political leanings because of these assholes. And it doesn't matter what the real level of threat is. You only need to be scared enough once to imagine someone aiming a gun at you on the highway. You're effectively silenced.

Call me a coward, but I'm not willing to let myself or a loved one be blackballed or worse simply for my political views. And this is precisely why the NSA data collection concerns me so greatly. I doubt I'm the only one who'd look at this and decide protesting isn't worth the risk.

[nashville_brook]

20. it doesn't even have to be a protest. public testimony, letters to the editor, talking to reporters.

these are stock and trade of social justice organizations...to raise up voices of those who are never heard.

if no one is willing to go on record to tell their story, and who can blame them...how do we change anything. worse, how do simply protect ourselves?

[magellan]

33. Yes, it can be used in many ways

And the insidious thing about it is it doesn't have to be used in order for there to be a chilling effect. The mere knowledge of it as a possibility is threat enough.

I fear for our country. And I'm left with more frustration than answers.

[nashville_brook]

37. i fear for our country too...but in a one state at a time kinda way

i really do think there's going to places people want to live, and places people want to leave. North Carolina, Texas and Tennessee are all on that short list of "leaving places." Florida is not far behind.

[dixiegrrrrl]

76. I suspect this fear of citizen retribution explains

why there were so fewer political yard signs in town last election.
DU ers from all over reported the same thing.

[JDPriestly]

66. And think what would happen to a would-be whistleblower who reported corruption

in a NSA-contractor to his member of Congress.

Pretty awful.

That is why Snowden took his evidence and went to Hong Kong.

If it silences even one person it's anti-democratic.

Thanks. You got the idea. I wish that all DUers would.

[magellan]

67. Well, if it were my member of Congress, Alan Grayson

...he'd listen and run it up the chain of command. What their fate would be after that, I wouldn't hazard a guess.

But in most cases, your point is spot on. As I'm sure you know, the previous whistleblowers tried that. They were ignored, then prosecuted. I don't blame Snowden one bit for taking the decision he did. Who knows the names Binney, Drake, Wiebe, Tice? Outside of communities like ours, you'd get blank looks.

I wish all DUers got it too. Some of them have been around here long enough that they used to. The only thing that's changed is the letter after the name of the man in the WH.

[JDPriestly]

69. What I meant was that a whistleblower could be discovered by a check of his/her metadata.

It would not be up to your member of Congress.

This is especially true if you like Snowden worked for a private contractor.

You would not just lose your job most likely. You would probably at the very least have difficulty finding another one.

The collection of metadata in and of itself without the collection of content could be devastating to freedom and to honest government.

[magellan]

71. Sorry, yes, you're right

And I'll bet NSA contractors are doing that now. They'd be fools not to. The paranoia must be something to behold.

A quote I recently came across that struck me as apropos to the times:

"You can sow the seeds of distrust everywhere and lose yourself in an overgrown field."

It's from Anne Rice's novel 'Pandora'. The title character is a Roman woman. She's considering the fate of Sejanus after he ordered the assassination of her entire family on the word of her brother -- whom she's just taken her revenge on. Sejanus, of course, is later executed by Tiberius when he learns Sejanus is plotting against him.

Delatores -- spies everywhere, willing to inform on anyone for any trumped up charge because they receive a fee for it. Is this the fate of every empire? It grasps at power so tightly it finally strangles itself?

[DirkGently]

10. An open letter to Civitas from a protester / Law professor

About Your Banging Blacklist: An Open Letter to the Civitas Institute

Jedediah PurdyProfessor, Duke Law School; Author, 'A Tolerable Anarchy'
Thanks for including me in your Moral Monday Protesters database. I'm sure I speak for many of those arrested for civil disobedience protesting North Carolina's Tea Party legislature who are happy to find our name, residence, and employer are usefully listed on the Internet.

I'd like to thank your funder, Art Pope, for making this project possible and giving it that personal touch. Linking to our mug shots is a nice detail; otherwise, your readers might not be able to recognize us on the street. Also, it has that great Rogues' Gallery effect. I mean, everyone looks like a criminal in a mug shot.

You really enrich the picture by listing arrestees' "interest-group affiliations," such as NAACP, People of Faith Against the Death Penalty, and, of course, Occupy Raleigh. But maybe the best grace note is the column devoted to noting everyone whose driver's license address doesn't match their voter registration address. Could that mean rampant voter fraud? You report, we decide.

You've made some really solid aesthetic choices here. The dull, column-ruled, sans-serif layout that we have to click through ten names at a time, like we were turning the pages of a Registry of Deeds? So retro. It's like 1950s public record in a county courthouse. And that little throwback is so of the moment. I mean, hipsters are using "boss" to mean awesome and belting their corduroys high around their waists. Everything old is new again, with a little ironic twist.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jedediah-purdy/about-your-banging-blackl_b_3471691.html

[nashville_brook]

48. "noting everyone whose driver's license address doesn't match their voter registration address"

this whole piece is wonderful, but pointing out the voter fraud trope is the most important part.

shows what they're really after.

[mick063]

11. Wear that website like a badge of honor.

These protesters would not be on this website, it they were not causing some type of anxiety for the GOP.

In other words, the success of the protest is measured by the reaction. It appears that Republicans are feverishly attempting to stop a small fire from becoming a big fire.



The folks from Occupy, despite the fashionable bashing even here on DU, are my heroes as well.

[DirkGently]

13. The fact they'd try to shame them is really enough.

Who knows who might suffer actual retaliation or embarrassment?

The attempt to expose them to that is enough to explain how personal information can be abused, even collating what's publicly available.

[mick063]

16. There is a similar circumstance, I am opposed to.

As a big believer in gun control, publishing personal information on gun owners is wrong for the same reasons that publishing personal information on protesters is.

[nashville_brook]

50. how about sex offenders?

[mick063]

55. Sex offenders are convicted criminals

Now typically, I am one that believes a person serves his sentence and the slate is wiped clean. A fresh start.

But perhaps in the case of sex offenders, the publication of their personal information might be considered part of their sentence and possibly serves the greater good of the community to know if they are raising their children in close proximity. A continuation of the dues they must pay to society.

Owning a gun is not criminal. Perhaps I'm biased because I own one. What possibly differentiates me from many other gun owners is that if a law were passed tomorrow, that I must give it up, I would oblige without hesitation. I'm for very restrictive gun control and yet I own one. It hasn't been out of the safe since I bought it, no one has access to it but me, and I often wonder why I still keep it. I often go for months without even being aware that I own one. I'm a far cry from worshipping the damn thing.

Strange huh?

[nashville_brook]

63. perhaps the greater good has to do with safety?

maybe that's the similar thread with gun information. if i knew that my neighbor had a dozen military rifles i might want to make sure my kids...or my dogs...don't cross his path. ever. it might be information to have before buying property next to him.

no one is going to care about a personal side arm. but it would definitely be good to know if there's an arsenal next door...in a greater good kind of way.

[mick063]

64. I am certainly in agreement with you

but from a different perspective.


I absolutely do not condone the publishing of gun owners on the internet. It opens the door for too may other excuses to do so (relative to non-criminals). Perhaps doing so with sex offenders has set a bad precedent as well, but I lean toward the side of allowing it as they do have the background that supports doing so. I do, however, believe there should be a sunset on this. After 15-20 years, a citizen may have demonstrated they are no longer a risk.

I do believe that there should be a ban on the sale of assault guns, reduced magazine capacity, and a limit on the amount of ammunition that can be purchased at any given time. I also believe there should be a robust process (to include DNA sampling and fingerprints) to authorize the purchase of a gun. I believe there should be stiff penalty for those caught circumventing that process. Additionally, I would like to see regional chemical tracers put in gunpowder. Further, since I am sympathetic to exposing habitual sex offenders for the "greater good", I would not be direly opposed to see a similar statute in place for those that have committed a crime with a gun in their possession.

Take the money they are wasting on criminalizing pot and spend it on the fore mentioned gun control proposals. The world would be a somewhat safer place.

[nashville_brook]

75. i'm not disagreeing -- the thing about sex offender registries is a big issue

in FL with offenders living under bridges and publishers distributing tabloids of offenders right to your doorstep in some neighborhoods. it's one of those things that's acceptable to do to an unacceptable social group. and when i see these things i wonder how soon before we see the publishers branching out to other "offenses." it creates a community of fear and loathing, which is the opposite of what good places to live look like. and yet, we say we're doing it for the "greater good."

definitely something i only have a bad feeling about...not something i have certainty about. guess i was just thinking out loud...riffing on the notion of people getting too far up in other people's business.

[Mojorabbit]

57. All it takes is a call to an employer stating

that one of their employers is online and has been arrested. If the employer does business with the state, well....what do you think they are going to do?

[nashville_brook]

14. makes you wonder what the equal and opposite data-dump reprisal might be

i imagine there's still some righteous Anonymous folk who might be interested the lulz.

[DirkGently]

17. Civitas apparently fears even having their names known.

from the article in the OP:

When some NC activists used the Civitas' listing of their directors and employees and constructed a compilation of their names and addresses, etc., on the web...Civitas immediately removed the names of their people from their web site... Gee...probably because that was uncalled for and invasive

[struggle4progress]

18. IIRC Civitas then pulled most information about its own staff from the website

[nashville_brook]

36. they sure did...b/c you know, it's not safe to have that information out there.

[socialist_n_TN]

21. Yep, this is a BIG problem with the NSA story.....

The "business" connection. Like a NSA subcontractor isn't going to use info he/she gained working for the government to feather his nest with his business buds. It's inevitable.

As far as the public shaming goes, as the poster above stated, I'd consider it a badge of honor. In these days of end stage capitalism, jail should be expected.

[DirkGently]

23. I think it makes them targets. For nuts and general political malice.

On the extreme end, abortion doctors have been, literally, murdered by getting featured on rightwing sites.

But at every level, there are people who will target on the basis of simply knowing who those they disagree with are.

Plenty of business owners would retaliate against employees on the basis of political affiliation. They normally don't ask, but if they're expressly told ...?

You don't have to be ashamed of your beliefs to not want them expressly broadcast to the people most likely to hate you for them.

It's a threatening behavior, in my opinion.

[socialist_n_TN]

25. Not that I necessarily disagree, but...

There comes a time when you have to face up to it or hide. And remember, they WANT you to hide.

And yes, I was laid off from a job last year because of my politics, so I know there are real problems with being outspoken. But I've never been easily intimidated and at 61, I don't expect to change.

[nashville_brook]

35. i've quit jobs b/c of my politics...it was a luxury to do so

i don't have kids. and when i was younger i didn't have health issues, so i could go a few months between gigs. not so much anymore.

i know lots of folks from occupy who *needed* a way to participate that was anonymous and i did everything i could to find ways for that to happen. we used social media to communicate. i really hope that option stays open for people.

[MisterP]

28. nonphysical money's laundered, why not actual data? nt

[socialist_n_TN]

30. EXACTLY. It's capitalism, so it's inevitable that it WILL...

(or has already) happened.

[nashville_brook]

61. not sure what laundering data would look like...

if that like when an email list you opted-in to gets sold to a viagra spammer?

[MisterP]

87. this incident was exactly what I had in mind--government data given to private contractors

who can then claim/sell/distribute it on their own

[octoberlib]

22. I live in Charlotte, NC, headquarters of Bank of America.

Last edited Fri Jul 5, 2013, 10:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I was at a pre-DNC function last year and asked a group of local journalists why I had to read Matt Taibbi to find out all this dirt on BofA. They all told me they were scared. BofA is well known around here for their use of private security contractors to conduct smear jobs etc. There is no doubt in my mind that the NC GOP is also using contractors.

Thanks for posting this. I sent a link to an article about this to Melissa Harris-Perry a couple weeks ago on Twitter and she did a show on it.

Intimidation like this doesn't work with me. It just makes me want to protest more.

[DirkGently]

24. It was BOA to whom HBGary was pitching its "destroy Glen Greenwald"

scheme a while back.

It's not a question of if or when personal information (and dis-information) will be sought to be used for gain, political and pecuniary.

It's a question of how far we're going to let it go.

[octoberlib]

26. I remember reading about that. It's certainly not good for democracy . nt

[nashville_brook]

44. the other HBGary conspirator was the Chamber of Commerce, who'd LURVE for activists to be silenced.

[Octafish]

38. Gee. No wonder Cass Sunstein wants to shut down discussion of government conspiracies.

Thank you for the heads-up, nashville_brook. This is infuriating with a capital furious.

[nashville_brook]

39. i'd forgotten about that whole episode...what a turd bucket.

http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal
Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups

Cass Sunstein has long been one of Barack Obama’s closest confidants. Often mentioned as a likely Obama nominee to the Supreme Court, Sunstein is currently Obama’s head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs where, among other things, he is responsible for “overseeing policies relating to privacy, information quality, and statistical programs.” In 2008, while at Harvard Law School, Sunstein co-wrote a truly pernicious paper proposing that the U.S. Government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites — as well as other activist groups — which advocate views that Sunstein deems “false conspiracy theories” about the Government. This would be designed to increase citizens’ faith in government officials and undermine the credibility of conspiracists. The paper’s abstract can be read, and the full paper downloaded, here -->>http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1084585

[Octafish]

40. He's a busy guy, now that he's back in the pirate sector...

Teaches the schmoes at Harvard law, writes for Bloomberg, finds time for making new friends...

Thank you for remembering him, nashville_brook. From what my hairdresser's cousin's old college roommate said, this guy is heading for the Supreme Court.

[nashville_brook]

42. endorsed by Ted Olson, Ken Starr and Eugene Scalia. yihesssh.

...Which may explain why Sunstein’s nomination has also been endorsed by conservative legal eminences like C. Boyden Gray, Eugene Scalia, and Ken Starr, as well as by the National Association of Manufacturers and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Ted Olson, the former Bush Solicitor General, spoke highly of Cass Sunstein when reached for comment: “Cass is one of the most brilliant, creative and productive lawyers I have ever known, and a true gentleman. I respect him enormously.”

[Democracyinkind]

70. "Pirate sector"

I'm so stealing that!! thanks!!

[DirkGently]

43. Mmmm. Good thing THAT was never put into practice. Haha.

Erm.

[nashville_brook]

49. ***pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites***

can't happen here.

[DirkGently]

51. Because then, you'd see ridiculous contortions of logic. Bad rhetoric. Ad hominem.

Phew. Thank goddess someone got wind of this before stuff like THAT started happening.

[nashville_brook]

52. you might need someone to draw you a map of that.

[woo me with science]

41. K&R

[Pholus]

54. But it's just metadata! As long as it keeps us safe!

The old refrain gets SMASHED when it runs into reality.

[nashville_brook]

59. reality has a well-known liberal bias

apparently.

[Pholus]

60. Let this stuff get entrenched and prepare to BE well-known liberals I guess...

[Mojorabbit]

56. Wow! nt

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Funny, I wouldn't figure those protests to be Charlie Daniels's scene.

[Blue_In_AK]

68. I would love to protest at my state Capitol,

but it takes too long, or is too expensive, to get there. (Two-day road trip with a five-hour ferry ride or a $400 plane trip.)

[nashville_brook]

73. Florida has about the same problem with fewer miles

but, the bluer you are, basically, the farther away you are from Tallahassee.

[Bolo Boffin]

72. Metadata hyperbole is what this is, alright.

Because the Civitas website is not using metadata in that vicious piece of work. They are using personally identifiable data. Metadata is anonymized.

So, yes, in using this fiendish ploy by shitactular Republicans as an example of the misuse of metadata, you are committing metadata hyperbole.

ATTENTION FOR ALL AT HOME KEEPING SCORE:

I AM NOT DEFENDING WHAT THE CIVITAS WEBSITE DID, NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST. IT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT INTIMIDATION, AND THEY SHOULD BE TARRED AND FEATHERED FOR THIS. HANGING IS TOO GOOD FOR THEM.

I am pointing out that this is not a misuse of metadata.

[DirkGently]

79. And you're confident all that data stays "anonymized?"

After all, if they're really looking for bad guys, the whole point would be to look at identity, right?

We know the NSA does not bat an eye at illegal behavior. They cheerfully followed Bush's orders, then went further and chuckled over people's "sex calls." This was not in the 1960s.

We know Homeland Security considered Occupy a "threat."

We know a private firm, HBGary, expressly proposed using data -- in that case social networking dirty tricks -- to "destroy" critics of Bank of America.

Do you think this one particular genie is firmly in the bottle?

Do you think private companies, Republicans, and elements of law enforcement traditionally hostile to progressives, want to keep it there?

Will you be shocked, SHOCKED, should we ever discover NSA data supposedly targeting "foreign enemies" is used in some other way?

[Bolo Boffin]

84. I'm certain that most of it does, simply because of the sheer amount collected

And that there is a process in place to unanonymize when called for, and minimization procedures in place and warrants required to connect metadata with content.

Where I balk is warehousing the content. You and I have nothing to hide, and that precisely is why our content shouldn't be in an NSA database anywhere. I doubt very strongly that one tenth of 1% of that database has ever been used. I'd be surprised if even one hundredth of 1% had been. And if so, then why the hell are they stockpiling it?

If Snowden really wants to blow this all wide open, he should release evidence of sex content being accessed. If there is abuse of that database going on, letting your buddies know where to find the good phone calls would be one of the first ways it would happen. We're all monkeys when it comes to that shit. Then the media wouldn't be able to drop the main angle. They'd have something salacious to run 24 hours a day while they got their tut-tut on.

The content database has to go. Get a warrant to start acquiring content from the provider on suspicious people just like a regular wiretap warrant.The temptation to connect the two parts of the puzzle is too great right now.

[baldguy]

80. Of course you're defending Civitas; you're pointing out facts.

Can't have those pesky facts getting in the way of the good "Obama is a RW fascist Hitler wannabe" hate-fest that DU has unfortunately become.

[nashville_brook]

81. 'hate fest' is a strawman claim directed at shutting down discussion

it's a tactic aimed primarily at closing up the democratic space open to those who are rightfully alarmed with surveillance programs aimed at the public. it's goal seems to be to punish principled Democrats for participating in discussion on "Democratic Underground."

it's particularly ironic that this post appears in a thread reflecting on the GOP's punishing of Democrats who rightfully seek participation in the Democratic process.

[baldguy]

89. Equating the US under Obama with the worst examples of faux democracies

(Like Hong Kong, Russia, Cuba, Venezuala, Bolivia, etc. - Snowden's Favorites, IOW) is a strawman claim directed at shutting down discussion.

Anytime anyone raises valid questions about Snowden's claims, the validity of his accusations, or the basic truth of evidence he's presented, Snowdens' sycophants will ignore any counter-evidence, disparage & belittle those bringing it forward, and rally their hive-mind to drive them away.

[klook]

74. Funded by scumbag right-winger Art Pope,

multi-billionaire purveyor of cheap crapola in low-rent neighborhoods:

Let's Go Shopping with Art Pope!

[DirkGently]

77. And now he's NC's "chief budget writer." Hoorah.

[nashville_brook]

78. thanks for the Art Pope info!

it's important to understand where these people come from.

[marions ghost]

82. Excellent post, thank you

This is despicable.

[Jamastiene]

83. I fucking cannot wait for the chance to vote McCrory out.

I just hope the majority in my state will vote against him too next time around. Dammit, I hate this GOP takeover of NC. They are fucking up everything and the GOP in this state has been gerrymandering for ages now too, plus, they do not follow any fucking laws. They do whatever the fuck they want, running roughshod over the laws, doing secret votes at the 11th hour so no one will know until it is the law of the land.

[nashville_brook]

86. it's good that the lawlessness, at least, is getting covered...the gerrymandering is another story

we're in the same boat in Florida. there's no hope until 2020 for any significant change according to party folks. they're not even trying until redistricting.

[NealK]

92. That sucks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I get to cover them

Not moral Mondays, demonstrations...and or the momemt...people are really...I mean this really pissed.

[felix_numinous]

88. This is why protests need to be

massive enough to overwhelm the system. Let them collect meta data on the whole fucking town, state or country.

It is psychological abuse--they are trying to humiliate people, and the best strategy is safety in numbers.

[marions ghost]

91. Should be illegal

[Savannahmann]

90. But they won't use the data that way.

At least, that's what the apologists told us when this story broke.

[limpyhobbler]

93. great post. Really shows why we need privacy protections.

I wanted to say more likely, but had to keep it real. Can't afford to lose a job right now.

[NYC_SKP]

94. I wouldn't blame teapartiers.

This shit is mainstream.

[Safetykitten]

95. But this is one little example, in a small state run by republicans...

how could this POSSIBLY be used in a larger format? They have checks and balances in the federal government. Besides, there is a Democrat currently president. And we will ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a Democratic president.

Such worrying over nothing.