= new reply since forum marked as read
I agree with you, for the most part. Lethal force, to me, is a last resort. However, if pushed to that point, if the livelihood of my fiancee or my (future) children were at stake, if it meant that my kids got to eat that night, then a stranger's life is not in my consideration. That makes me cruel, possibly heartless, but that's the way of it.
We each have our own way of viewing the world. My way is quite a bit more cold and calculating, but I know that, and wouldn't force it on anyone. I'm knowing of the fact that others may have the restraint I otherwise would not have, and I admire them for it. I do not, however, envy them.
As always, it's a pleasure, and I look forward to more civil exchanges between our sides. This is the way to progress, not through banning, or unrestricted gun ownership. Peace to ya, mate. 
It was interesting to follow and you both kept it cool. But your last line is a DUzy.
Hopefully, I may have dispelled some notions you may hold towards gun owners as a group. I promise you, we're not all lunatics.
and, if not a founding member, he was at least a member of the IVAW (Iraq Veterans Against the War).
He was also the one who spoke these words, which I made into a bumper sticker, though his identity wasn't known at the time:
Sadly, we never know where, or who, the dreaded fickle finger of fate is going to point at next, do we?
Has anyone ever stopped to wonder if this one time "Darling of DU" is suffering from untreated PTSD, or fighting other demons in his mind over things he may have seen, or done, during his tour of duty, and is acting out this way now because of it? That he's acting out against a Government that mind-fucked him for life, but hasn't chosen suicide as a way out, like thousands upon thousands of others have? Just some food for thought....
Peace,
Ghost
To be honest, before the past few days, I'd never heard of the poor sod. Even when I lurked DU for a few years, the name is failing to come to mind, and I normally have a half-decent memory towards names and deeds.
No matter, I'm starting to run out of steam anyways. Maybe I should call it a day. Been up for way too long already. Thank you for the inspiration, and I may or may not start that post, depending on if I remember or not.
Stay safe, mate.
It didnt occur to him that police might be coming after his little "display"? This is a riot. Couldnt happen to a nicer guy.
Hey, the cops are coming! Break out the shrooms! 
Since one of their arguments is that existing laws should be enforced and we don't need no more. I'll hold my breath and wait for them to all come and applaud this.
Exception one: If a nameless stranger tries to rob me and implies that I will suffer or die if I refuse to comply with his request, should I be -forced- to acquiesce to the demand simply because "He's a human, therefore I cannot kill him"? I disagree with that premise entirely. Even if (a heavily weighted "If"
his life is worth the same as mine, at that time, -in that moment-, he is a direct threat to both myself and my livelihood, and is thusly rated with a worth below my own. (As a disclaimer, I'd just hand the money over; money comes and goes.)
"against all reasonable restrictions"
Like the AWB, which did nothing? Or the AWB that Feinstein tacked onto the Background Check bill for no reason other than (presumably) to torpedo legislation? Hell mate, Feinstein is the RKBA crew's best ally: She's your side's "nutter", the person to whom we point when we want to make a point about extremist Controllers, and she's also the one we can point to when talking about "who killed the background check bill."
You want reasonable restrictions? How's this:
Shall-issue as the national standard.
No convicted felon ownership, period.
Comprehensive universal background check.
Murder someone, regardless of self defense, puts you on ten-year probationary period.
Use a gun in -any- crime, no matter how petty, and you can't own a gun again.
And that's just a start.
but to be blunt, it'd serve no purpose. You've had your experiences, and I've had mine.
I've had guns pointed in my face and been (mostly) unafraid. I've bought and sold firearms legally and made good money. I've got target shooting solely for the sake of shooting. I've never hunted. I store my guns in a secure case, with no ammo in the room and the firing pins in a separate location. Safety is -paramount- in my home, because I couldn't live with a death that I had no intention to cause. (You break in and threaten my fiancee, though, and I will have every intention to harm you as much as possible. )
For you, security is a lack of guns. For others, safety is the -presence- of guns. We had an unarmed maniac running around the forest not too long ago and threatening rural residents, but the police felt he was enough of a threat to call the entire area code and have us on a "shelter in place" sort of deal. I will tell you that in that moment, nothing made me feel more safe than the bolt-action mosin-nagant with a full clip aimed at the only door in or out. It's a collector's piece; it's incredibly valuable, it's a firearm equivalent of "Batman first issue." I had absolutely no reservations about ruining it's value if need be, and I've never felt safer. Likewise, I hope I'm never in that situation again. Nor would I wish anyone to be in that same situation, but unable to defend themselves because of overabundance of gun control laws.
As always, we differ. My voice is a minority on DU in this regard, and I do understand that. I see your point of view, and I do respect it, and although you raise good points, I cannot agree with some or indeed most of them. Every negative symptom of gun ownership that you have described is a result of irresponsibility, recklessness or criminal activity. Take those same factors and apply them to almost any other inanimate object, and you will have accidents, and likely have deaths as well. It's hard for me to get worked up about gun deaths when gun controllers ignore the 150,000 people that die a day. The normal interchange is something along the lines of "Someone got shot today!" "Seventy thousand people starved. But yeah, someone got shot somewhere, I guess."
Anyways, I'm rambling. My apologies for the delay in the post, and my apologies too that we cannot truly reconcile our differences. You see guns as an unnecessary evil, and I see them as a necessary good. There's very little common ground, but the best we can do is meet somewhere along the lines of "True Neutral."
Most of the gunners literally wear me out on threads, so I just stop answering. Usually, I just ignore gun threads now because they are some of the most tenacious people I've ever met.
I wish everyone was as careful as you are with your guns and perhaps we wouldn't be having this problem. But I do respect your point of view and I guess the best thing I can say is I hope you never have to use it to protect you or your family.
Peace to you and yours
Believe me, no one upsets me more than irresponsible gun owners. Every accident is entirely preventable, and every death is a loss. It's the irresponsible people, the one with little to no regard for the power and consequences of owning a firearm, that make the rest of us look like lunatics.
Likewise, I hope that a gun is never pulled on you, nor that you ever need to defend yourself but find yourself unable to. As always, it's my pleasure and honor to debate civilly, and I wish you nothing but the best. I suppose I'll see you on the legislative battlefield.
Cheers, mate. 
Cuz that's what I am!
The sooner we come to grips with what we are, the better for everyone. 
Caps off to the freaks and the nuts, eh?
I'm guessing he doesn't have very much of it.
The gun-humpers always seemed a little off to me... 
"We will not obey"
Gundamentalists never disappoint.
I like that! 
