WTF? Zimmy didn't want to get in the "ring" to test his skills?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

He's a wimp who wanted to maintain the ability to shoot his unarmed opponent when things went wrong, which would be always.

[yesphan]

1. Uh, yep.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. I can't wait to watch

the video tonight. I'm reading the feeds online from the trial. When you read it - and don't want watch it. . . . I almost think that's where Guy was egging Root on. I.E. Georgie knew the only option he had to hurt Trayvon was a gun - and he took a gun to a fist fight.


Do you have video/audio?

[Decoy of Fenris]

3. What's that? He never sparred? Never actually -FOUGHT?-

I'm waiting for the refugees from the PPR poster's thread to come flooding in here, saying that you don't need to "test skills" to fight; just being near a trainer automatically makes you a master fighter.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

9. your focus on trying to acquit Z on DU forums is unseemly

[Decoy of Fenris]

11. I don't care about Z. I think he's going to get Manslaughter, hopefully more.

In this particular debate, the lack of knowledge about martial arts and informal combat is astounding, and I'm seeking to educate the uneducated. Lock Z up, let 'em rot, deport him to Siberia, I don't care about him. What I do care about is the casual disrespect that people are showing martial arts as both a dedication and a way of life.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

16. ahh....I see. well, even if Z learned a couple of strikes and holds and evasions

it would be more than the murder victime learned.

[Decoy of Fenris]

18. Aye, but Z wouldn't have the knowledge or experience to use it.

In the field of martial arts, inexperience in combat leads -directly- to tragic mistakes. You try a move you practiced once or twice, and suddenly you're on your back with someone else's knee on your throat. A year of practice three days a week may -sound- impressive, but I promise you as a martial arts veteran, it is not.

Simply learning a few moves, and never practicing them in protracted combat, does -not- make you a martial artist. If anything, it makes you a combat liability, unable to defend yourself adequately.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

10. being near a trainer means you are near a trainer. doesn't mean you learned anything from them.

[displacedtexan]

35. So why is his trainer hawking THE GZ WORKOUT on his website? n/t

[arely staircase]

13. or hell just carry a gun, then you can still start all the shit you want

and just shoot your victim when he starts kicking your ass.

seems to be what happened here.

[Decoy of Fenris]

15. I think that's a given. n/t

[SummerSnow]

29. Zim provoked the situation by following Trayvon...now he wants to be the victim.

punk

[Deny and Shred]

4. Yeah, I was thinking about that amount of time

GZ was training two-hour sessions of grappling or striking, two to threee times a week, on and of for a year.

He learned plenty in those sessions, even more so if he was an unathletic schlub. I started wrestling in 9th grade, and was much better a month later after learning a few things. Going from clueless to knowing-the-basics improves things considerably.

In college, the Tues/Thurs class schedule was two two-hour sessions, (M-W-F shcedule was threee 1 hour & twenty sessions). That amount of training seems roughly equavalent to two 3-credit-hour college courses. You don't spend two hours stretching while everyone else in the place is shown the basics of grappling. Please.

I'd like a visual of how to get a straight 90 degree shot to the upper chest when someone is mounted and pummeling you. That wrist must be at quite an angle.

[Decoy of Fenris]

8. About the gun angle:

Knowing human psychology, if (yeah right) Zimmy was getting his face beat in, it means Martin would be in at least a half-upright position, not lying on top of Zimmers. Therefore, with the center of mass braced on Zimmer's pelvis/hips, if Zimmy were to pull the gun (possible since his arms weren't restrained) and press it blindly upwards (into the center of Martin's chest) and pulled the trigger, it'd be a straight 90 degree angle shot. The shot is -possible-.

However, as it stands, all of the facts seem to indicate everything -but- that happened. There'd be burns, powder residue, and likely a bit of Martin's blood on the gun. Zimmer's story is -possible- but highly and incredibly improbable. Too many "What ifs". It seems like he's trying to make the story fit what happened as to frame him in the least responsible light.

[Aerows]

12. I don't see how it happened, either

without powder burns, blood and residue. That would have to be a lottery winning shot for that to happen, on top of the fact that there was no DNA evidence of Zimmerman on Martin. If Martin socked him, there would be SOMETHING on Martin's fists, but the ME found nothing.

None of that adds up.

(Edited because I meant to say Zimmerman on Martin, not Martin on Zimmerman).

[Decoy of Fenris]

20. I just did a few moves on my fiancee (Not contact, obviously.)

There's no way that one could conceivably strike at an opponent's head without at least some DNA getting left behind, we think. The fiancee thinks that if there's no DNA on the hands, it might be on the elbows, if Martin threw elbows. Otherwise, the only thing we can think of is a grab at the sides of Zimmerman's head, open handed. That doesn't fit with Zimmmer's account of "raining blows" though, so I think we can discount that entirely.

To our collected knowledge, there is no way, given the facts and observations that we have, that Zimmerman's story could have happened the way he said it happened.

[Aerows]

21. There's no way

You can't "pound someone's head on the pavement" without blood being released, or at least some skin cells and hair.

I just can't see it happening by any stretch of the imagination. Pity they didn't check the sidewalk where this supposedly happened for blood from Zimmerman, but obviously, that wasn't what the police were there to do - they were there to clear him.

ETA: Even if he grabbed his head open handed, wouldn't a blow with intent cause some hair to come out of Zimmerman's head? That should be a given.

[Decoy of Fenris]

22. Well, yes and no.

I think it's incredibly improbable, but if Martin grabbed Z's head, above and behind his temples, and simply used a vicegrip (no nails, no grip, no sudden knuckle impact), there's a chance, however slim, that little to no DNA would be transferred. Either way, we're again into the territory of "What if", and the facts as they stand indicate that Martin laid either little or no contact upon Zimms. No matter how you slice it, his story doesn't jibe.

[Aerows]

23. So we have a lottery chance shot

combined with a lottery chance head grab. Well that's convincing.

[Decoy of Fenris]

28. Yeah. In the casino industry, that'd be called a sucker bet.

I mean, is it -possible- to hit all the right possibilities at once? Yeah, but realistically, there'd be better odds of both combatants getting struck by lightning twice and living through both.

[uponit7771]

36. +1 Zimmys head was bloody as all get out, if TM grabbed it he would've still got some on his hands

[HeroInAHalfShell]

14. I had someone tell me that Z had his gun in front of his nose when he took the shot, that is how

Z got the cuts on his nose. so in that situation, your hand would be in the right spot to shoot straight.

[Aerows]

17. He'd have powder burns, though, and residue

if it was that close. It's never added up.

[uppityperson]

24. I have not read they testing Zimmy for any of that. So he could have.

[Aerows]

26. I guess when you just make assumptions

that someone is innocent and that someone else is guilty like they did to Martin in this case, all sorts of investigation fall by the wayside.

Powder burns would be plainly evident on his hands, though, at close range as would blood. Now whether or not anybody bothered to check is a whole other story.

[uppityperson]

27. Yup. eom

[snooper2]

5. The dude that ran that gym/fight club, whatever

said Zimmy was basically a pudgy idiot who couldn't fight-

He didn't let him spar with anyone because he would have gotten his ass kicked-

[AnotherMcIntosh]

6. If you want to win all fights, pick on someone smaller than yourself. And bring a weapon.

[korak]

7. Actually, his trainer testified that he did not allow it.

Because Z had not or could not have developed the necessary skills or abilities. Said Z was a nice guy, but just not athletic type and remained a "soft" guy despite his efforts.

[John2]

30. You mean

the nice guy, that was arrested for assault on a police officer and domestic violence? Why doesn't the prosecution bring it up? Now this is a guy, wanting to be a police officer and has a family of marines. He is the same person police have an allegation from a motorist, accused of tailgating. Did this trainer volunteer his services for the defense? I would also ask him just what his relationship was with the defendant on a friendship\professional level. Zimmerman seems to have a lot of ties to law Enforcement officers.

[Initech]

19. In his fantasy world, he's the Yankees. But in reality he just cheats like A Rod.

[Myrina]

25. More like: in his fantasy world he's Rambo. In real life he's Paul Blart, Mall Cop.

[Initech]

31. Fantasy: Dirty Harry. Reality: Dexter.

[Myrina]

32. Nah, Dexter's smart. I will give ya Barney Fife, tho.

Nt

[Initech]

33. Fantasy: Dirty Harry. Reality: Junior from Reno 911.

How about that one?

[Myrina]

37. Brilliant!

[frylock]

38. aww man, i like Junior!

[Initech]

39. Fantasy: Dirty Harry. Reality: Chief Wiggum

[avaistheone1]

34. Did court break for the day, or are they just on a really long 15 minute break?

[Hugabear]

40. If you have a gun, you don't have to know how to fight

Maybe he was taking classes to meet women