What is your attitude toward American type Libertarianism?

[Douglas Carpenter]

Much as been said lately about Libertarianism and even the suggestion that some posters here are perhaps even closet Libertarians. Now to clarify - I mean of course American type Libertarianism - not some form of Socialist-Libertarianism such as advocated by some left-wing Anarchist philosophers such as Noam Chomsky.

8 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I largely agree with the Libertarian philosophy
	0 (0%)
	I completely and categorically reject everything there is to do with the Libertarian philosophy
	2 (25%)
	I find myself frequently agreeing with many Libertarians about matters such as the surveillance state and some civil Libertarian issues and to a large extent I agree with many Libertarians on many foreign policy issues. But when it comes to their views on almost all other issues including education, healthcare and the role of government in helping working people and the poor - I am completely and totally the opposite of them in my thinking.
	6 (75%)
	I think fish and seafood from the northern New England coast is probably the very best in the world.
	0 (0%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[think]

1. I also appreciate the divisions it has created in the Republican party...

There is virtually nothing I can agree upon with most hard core neocons ...

[onehandle]

2. American type Libertarianism is Ultra Right-Wing Conservative Republicanism.

Anyone here who thinks it's anything else is ill-informed.

[Demo_Chris]

25. Actually, it's Paleo Conservatism. What most consider ultra right these days...

Includes a large helping of social conservatism -- something most Libertarians find abhorrent.

[rdharma]

30. I've met them, observed them,...... and you are 100% correct! nt

[burnodo]

3. American Libertarian is not libertarian

just like Democratic is not equivalent to democratic

[ZombieHorde]

4. I love their anti-war stance.

I also support ending the war on drugs, and I am for legalized abortion, just like the Libertarian Party. Last I checked, which was a long while ago, they were pretty good on immigration matters as well.

However, I love social programs, social justice (whatever that may be), and education, and they are really lame in those categories.

[bluedigger]

6. Libertarians are not anti-war, they are isolationists.

They have no problem whatsoever arming the rest of the world and watching it destroy itself as long as their tax dollars aren't spent outside our borders.

[ZombieHorde]

7. I suspose there is something to that. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Exactly. Opposing overseas entanglements is not the same as supporting peace or opposing war.

nt

[think]

20. Democrats are not anti-war either or so I've been told...

[bluedigger]

21. There is no requirement to be a pacifist to be a Democrat.

But they are welcome.

[think]

22. ...

[Egalitarian Thug]

5. Nothing beats the seafood that comes from the still cold north Atlantic.

So-called American Libertarianism is nothing but a sop for those that lack the intellectual horsepower to understand that a system that is utterly dependant on an existing, well developed governmental and social system to exist, yet is incapable of creating those systems, is unworkable and unsustainable.

Dim-witted republicans that want to smoke pot and pay women to fuck them is an apt description.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. I'll add that their most famous spokesfolks have been racist, homophobic and anti choice

none of which is really very libertarian. They are not well grounded nor well organized.

[RedCappedBandit]

10. I passed.

American libertarians, while it may seem like we agree with them on certain points, are driven solely by childish egocentric and greedy world-views. As a political philosophy, it is a half-assed, selfish, naive waste of everybody's time.

So no, I don't think I actually agree with them on anything. Sure, we may both be against, say, the war on drugs. But they feel that way because they don't want the government telling them what to do, whereas I feel that way because I strongly believe in social justice and cannot justify the imprisonment of adults who choose to smoke a little weed.

In a nutshell, I think the why matters.

[truebluegreen]

15. Excellent characterization.

Libertarians are all about themselves and don't give a rap about anyone else.

[Zorra]

11. I agree with Thom Hartmann about Libertarians:

I've often said that Libertarians are Republicans who want to smoke dope and get laid (they're in favor of decriminalizing pot and prostitution), but what Rand Paul is showing us that their worldview goes much farther than even a Republican like Richard Nixon - who brought us the EPA - would.

Libertarians believe we the people have no right to collectively get together and create an institution called government to protect ourselves from predators. Instead, Libertarians believe in kingdom rather than democracy - they want the kingdoms of rich people and their corporations to have final say in all things both public and private, and thus total control over our lives. And, amazingly enough, they call this "freedom."

In a way it is freedom - if you're a billionaire. But as FDR famously said in 1936, a necessitous man - a hungry man with no home or job - is not a free man. Government does have a role to play in protecting our commons and us, and the bizarre political theology of Rand Paul would totally undo the great work the Founders of our nation and Framers of our Constitution created.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2010/05/libertarians-believe-kingdom-rather-democracy#sthash.5Nje7Uor.dpuf

[jmowreader]

13. My opinion of Libertarians has been posted many times

"A Libertarian is a Republican with a bag of weed in his glove box."

Libertarians have superficially liberal-sounding stances on drugs, war and a few other things, but the root cause of those stances is the extreme desire to get rid of two things: taxation and government. The reality is a bit different: They hate drugs with a passion but can't figure out how to privatize the cops. They love war but can't privatize the infantry. They'd privatize the sidewalks but no one will carry an EZpass transponder in his wallet. I think their whole schtick has nothing to do with liberty and everything to do with privatization.

One of the lessons of Idiocracy is the dangers of privatizing the commons. Everything has been sold to the private sector, and nothing works..."in the midst of a budget crisis the Brawndo Corporation bought the FDA and FCC, giving them permission to say, do or sell anything they wanted."

[LuvNewcastle]

33. That's it. It's about privatization.

They would replace our elected government with rule by corporations run by a few people and answerable to no one. We can do without that kind of 'freedom.'

[jmowreader]

14. ...and Alaskan fish is the best in the world!

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. I suspect the issue is probably cold northern waters - Something about cold northern waters

simply make fish and seafood more luscious

[abelenkpe]

29. So yummy!

You are correct.

[rrneck]

17. One might well call me a cultural libertarian

but in terms of the impact of libertarian fiscal policy on this country and the world I reject it entirely. When they do something besides concoct new and more sinister ways to fuck people over I might rethink my position.

[Johonny]

18. Do you mean Norm Chomsky or Rand Paul?

there is the heart of why American libertarianism is not a well defined term.

I think most Democrats believe in libertarian within an authoritarian frame work that enables it to exist at all.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. I actually put that in my summary of the question at the top of the page

Now to clarify - I mean of course American type Libertarianism - not some form of Socialist-Libertarianism such as advocated by some left-wing Anarchist philosophers such as Noam Chomsky

[burnodo]

39. NORM!!!

Hey everbody!

[Lars39]

23. Where's the option for selfish gits?

[Quantess]

24. Have we decided that being opposed to the NSA's overreach is "libertarian"?

I must have missed that meeting. I don't call it "libertarian" to be balking at the idea of gross and widespread, overreaching, violations of privacy.

None of the above.

[Douglas Carpenter]

26. that seems to be what some people are suggesting

[Quantess]

27. Some loud voices on DU are suggesting that, you mean?

Dems who are opposed to this administration's policies are not actually dems but libertarians, at least on those points...
Nah, I don't think so. It's going to take more than that to convince me to label myself part-libertarian. I reject the premise.

[liberal_at_heart]

37. It's just a bullying tactic. Doesn't mean we have to buy into it anymore than we bought into the

republicans' claims that democrats are unAmerican or communist.

[Zoeisright]

28. Libertarians are just selfish repukes.

With a mommy complex.

[abelenkpe]

31. Libertarians

I have known are all C student, bigoted, bullying white upper middle class republican voters who like to pretend they think for themselves. So they call themselves Libertarian.

They are nothing like European Libertarians. More like their evil doppelgänger.

Basically, if you want to give corporations and the 1 percent even more power, or want to hurry up and finish unravelling all the work of the civil rights movement and efforts of unions then US Libertarianism might be for you.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. onekikformoreresults

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

34. I reject the entire philosophy after once being fooled by it.

The years I spent as one were dark days indeed.

[sagat]

35. I have yet to meet a libertarian that isn't creepy.

[dipsydoodle]

36. I have no cause to use libraries

.

[Spider Jerusalem]

38. American Libertarianism as such is fundamentally sociopathic and juvenile.

It's solipsistic in its denial of society and collective responsibility. It reflects, in my opinion, the absolute worst of the American character; the near-religious reverence for the Constitution and founders, the bizarrely messianic idea that the ideals and principles of early American government represent some sort of universally applicable ideal, the cult of the individual...and as far as Randian objectivism goes, it's purely sociopathic; Rand's ideal type of human was one for whom "other people did not exist, and he did not see why they should".