Today’s Moscow-Havana flight taking a very odd detour that avoids the U.S.

[Catherina]

Last edited Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:09 PM - Edit history (2)

Edit: Please see post #12, a few other flights are doing the same die to turbulent weather in Greenland, BUT....


Snowden watch: Today’s Moscow-Havana flight taking a very odd detour that avoids the U.S.


Thursday’s unusual flight path for Aeroflot Flight 150 from Moscow to Havana. (FlightAware)

Tracking it live here: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150

At 2:13 p.m. Moscow time on Thursday, or 6:13 a.m. EST, the four-times-a-week Aeroflot flight from Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport to Havana, Cuba, took off as usual.

But then something strange happened: The plane did not follow its normal route, which takes it northwest over Scandinavia, then across Iceland and Greenland before turning south over Canada and the continental United States. Although this might look like a curve on flat maps, it’s actually the shortest route, following the curve of the Earth, and also the safest as it keeps the plane near land in case of an emergency.

Instead of taking the usual route, Flight 150 headed west over Central Europe, crossing Belarus, Poland, Germany and then France. As of this writing, it’s over the vast expanse of the Atlantic ocean — an extremely unusual path for a trans-Atlantic flight. The route is longer and, because it’s so far from land, potentially less safe.

...

So why is today’s Moscow-Havana Aeroflot commercial flight taking this very strange detour from its route? It’s not clear why, but suspicion is naturally turning to one Edward Snowden, the NSA leaker who’s been stuck in Moscow’s airport and is probably trying to find a way to get to Venezuela, Bolivia or Nicaragua, the three Latin American countries that have offered him asylum. To be clear, it is entirely possible there is another reason for the detour; the speculation that the plane carries Snowden and is diverting to avoid U.S. airspace may well turn out to be groundless.

...

Or maybe it’s nothing. But we’ll be watching, so do check back. As promised, here are the last six flight paths for Aeroflot 150.







(and three more of the same)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/11/snowden-watch-todays-moscow-havana-flight-taking-a-very-odd-detour-that-avoids-the-u-s/

[Enrique]

1. better not take any chances

shoot it down.

[Catherina]

2. They wouldn't dare! But they're watching closely

I got details about it from a Navy Nuclear vet who works on Capital Hill.

[MineralMan]

3. Yah. Avoiding US airspace.

I'm betting Snowden's on-board. We'll find out soon enough, I imagine.

[CakeGrrl]

4. Good riddance if so.

But thank gawds we have Greenwald to keep leaking!

[MineralMan]

7. Indeed. Once Snowden is firmly in place

somewhere, the story will simply slip out of the news, to be replaced by non-stop wailing about the Zimmerman trial or the next hot new topic that arises.

Snowden's over. He's released what he has to release. It wasn't impressive stuff, either. Time to move on to other things.

[Bradical79]

10. That would be unfortunate

If Snowden settling down somewhere killed all news of a massive domestic spying program, then that would say a lot about our media and society.

[MineralMan]

14. Well, the story's already fading, except on sites like this one,

and among some groups. There's not much more to tell, really. Some briefing slides have been leaked, misinterpreted, and decried. Snowden's no longer interesting, since he has no more to offer. He'll never have access to any place where he can get more, either. So, what's left to discuss about him?

The other personalities involved will have to find a new resource. The conversation about domestic intelligence gathering will still go on, but it's been going on since about 2001. Snowden and Greenwald just brought it to the forefront for a while.

The media will find new stories, since new stories are always appearing, and the society will pretty much yawn, as it normally does. This news spike has peaked already and will fall back into the general noise.

[morningfog]

25. He has much more to offer. What makes you think otherwise?

He has leaked info on Brazil and NSA code on devices most recently. He has a wealth of information that has not be released yet.

[MineralMan]

33. Does he? We shall see.

The NSA code on devices thing is bogus. They've working on improving security for years, and that's what's on those devices. That's an openly-disclosed thing, Snowden didn't reveal anything.

As for monitoring stuff in Brazil, that's the NSA's charter to do that. They monitor all sorts of stuff outside of the country. They've been doing that for decades and it's not a secret.

My point is that Snowden has revealed almost nothing that anyone who has been following intelligence operations did not know long ago. That others didn't know doesn't mean that the information isn't out there. Snowden's leaks were of stuff that has been known, for the most part.

[KharmaTrain]

48. Then That's Snowden's Fault...

...he would serve all a big service if he returned to this country to face not only his charges but his accusers as well. Looks like his daddy's set up a big time Constitutional lawyer, Bruce Fein, who could use a trial to do all sorts of discovery about what's going on with the NSA, Booz-Allen and others that Mr. Snowden could identify as violating laws or rights or both. He could truly be a Daniel Ellsberg and use his trial...which surely would be covered to the gills on the innertoobs...and expose the draconian security state if he chose to. Remember, it's the government's burden of proof...they'd have to disclose details of whose being spied on and how it conforms to the law. The whole thing could be both educational (to the many who aren't familiar with how pervasive invasions into our privacy...commercially as well as by the government...has gone and to force the government to clean up its act and maybe even force congress to roll back the odious "Patriot Act".

With Snowden on the run or hiding in some self-imposed exile he offers little and, yes, will fade from the news, history and relevance...

[sabrina 1]

42. Lol, 'Snowden's over'. Well since, to the majority people on the planet, it never was about

Snowden to begin with, except to the Government who don's seem to think 'he's over', considering what they did to the President of Bolivia's plane, something that won't be over for quite some time, it doesn't matter whether he is over or not.

He informed the people of a massive surveillance program about which our Director of Intelligence, Clapper, former CEO of Booz Allen, who I'm sure has no conflict of interest, lied to Congress.

I hope Clapper, unlike Rove his former buddy in the Bush admins. (what is he doing in a Democratic Administration btw?) will be brought back before Congress to answer for that lie.

There will be more Whistle Blowers until the crimes against the Constitution are finally addressed. Snowden, just one more in a long line since our Constitutional Rights were hi-jacked using a fake 'WOT' to do so.

[MineralMan]

54. OK. You Go for it.

I do not think the word "majority" means what you think it means.

[sabrina 1]

64. I think the majority of the World's people are on the side of those who oppose Bush policies.

So yes, 'majority' does mean what I think it means. And don't worry, we are going for it, democracy restored to the US is a worthy goal.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

5. Safe Journey, Brave Heart!

Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of news that Tyranny is coming!

[snooper2]

18. LMAO

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Looks like the fox is eluding the hounds. Yay!

[cali]

8. here's hoping that Edward Snowden is aboard and that plane lands safely in Cuba

[Catherina]

17. See post 12.

I hope he's on board too! But who knows if some other flights are avoiding Greenland too? Good morning

[backscatter712]

9. I hope Snowden's on board!

He certainly deserves asylum somewhere nice!

[ProSense]

11. Internet Is Awash in Rumors That Edward Snowden Is on a Flight Over the Atlantic

Internet Is Awash in Rumors That Edward Snowden Is on a Flight Over the Atlantic

Philip Bump

The Internet, which enjoys its conspiracy theories, is ablaze with speculation that an Aeroflot flight between Moscow's Sheremetyevo International Airport and Havana, Cuba, might be carrying a particularly interesting passenger: Edward Snowden. It's an idea is based on the thinnest of threads: a shift in the flight's normal route away from the United States—a shift that isn't that unusual, even for this week.

When Aeroflot 150 made the trip on Tuesday, it looked like this, as mapped by FlightAware:

<...>

There are any number of reasons that the plane might move further offshore. For example, there is a line of thunderstorms on the Eastern seaboard right now, which might bear avoidance. Or perhaps it's related to the remnants of Tropical Storm Chantal, which "EXTENDS FROM HISPANIOLA NORTHWARD TO THE SOUTHEASTERN AND CENTRAL BAHAMAS AND THE ADJACENT ATLANTIC," in the all-caps words of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. That path, in case it's not clear, lies just to the west of the Aeroflot flight.

Update, 12:45 p.m.: Yup, it's the weather. As the Washington Post points out, a number of flights are being diverted by turbulence over Greenland.

But there are so many other reasons this is unlikely. For one, as we detailed last week, most commercial flights would likely not take Snowden, given that he has no passport or (probably) entry papers for Cuba. Plus, it seems likely that a national airline, which pre-filed a passenger manifest and flight path, would be hard-pressed to keep Snowden's passage a secret. For another, as ABC News documented last week, Snowden probably would have been seen boarding the plane by one of the cadre of reporters camped out in the airport specifically hoping to catch a glimpse.

- more -

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/edward-snowden-commercial-flight-over-atlantic-probably-not/67083/

[sabrina 1]

44. Why would not having a passport be a problem? The Underwear Bomber, whose own father

had reported him as a threat, had no Passport but had zero problem getting on a plane. In fact he was escorted onto the plane without a passport.

[kentuck]

58. Test run.

would be my guess.

Russia (Putin) will not gamble with an international incident and neither will the US. I don't think they will??

[Catherina]

12. Could be a normal deviation. Some other flights are doing the same

When the regular Aeroflot flight from Moscow to Havana took an unusual route, one that as of this writing has it high over the Atlantic and likely to avoid the U.S. airspace it usually crosses, many — myself included – wondered whether the plane might have diverted because it was carrying NSA leaker Edward Snowden.

It turns out, though, that a number of westbound trans-Atlantic flights are today taking this unusual southern route, apparently for weather-related reasons. It’s possible that Snowden could still be on the plane – perhaps his Russian handlers saw the flights diverting, knew Aeroflot would avoid U.S. airspace today and popped him on board. But it would seem that at least the flight path itself is due to weather and not, say, a call from Russian President Vladimir Putin.

...

And a few other westbound trans-Atlantic flights also seem to be taking a similar path. These were flagged by Associated Press reporter Raphael Satter. Here, via flight tracking service FlightAware.com, are the flight paths, all live as of this writing:

(pics)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/11/turns-out-that-aeroflot-flight-to-havana-is-diverting-because-of-turbulence-over-greenland

[1-Old-Man]

13. There is a simpler answer than International intrigue, the earth has recently flattened

The great arc may have worked when the world was round, but recently it has flattened, so now the apparent straight line is the shortest route. See? Nothing to see here ...

[MineralMan]

16. The globe-shaped world was always a myth.

The great-circle routes were just a ruse to keep that myth alive.

[Cleita]

15. K&R

[HipChick]

19. Before Snowden, there was something called turbulence

[JoePhilly]

24. Its NOT about Snowden!!!!

Its about the weather conditions around a plane which, coincidentally, Snowden might or might not be on.

[sabrina 1]

45. Yes and there was a false sense that the 4th Amendment violations of the rights of Americans

were being dealt with as promised.

Speaking of turbulence ...

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. It would be interesting to know if they informed the USA of the passengers on this flight

because I think they have to normally - UK airlines do, to overfly the USA:

Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...

One million British travellers planning to fly to Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico this year face the risk of being turned away at the airport – at the insistence of the US Department of Homeland Security.

New rules require British Airways and other airlines flying to certain airports outside America to submit passengers' personal data to US authorities. The information is checked against a "No Fly" list containing tens of thousands of names. Even if the flight plan steers well clear of US territory, travellers whom the Americans regard as suspicious will be denied boarding.

Simon Hughes, the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, told The Independent: "The concern by the US for its own security is entirely understandable, but it seems to me it's a whole different issue that American wishes should determine the rights and choices of people travelling between two countries neither of which is the US."

For several years, every US-bound passenger has had to provide Advance Passenger Information (API) before departure. Washington has extended the obligation to air routes that over-fly US airspace, such as Heathrow to Mexico City or Gatwick to Havana.

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/planning-a-trip-to-canada-or-the-caribbean-us-immigration-may-have-other-ideas-7584912.html

[Catherina]

32. Aeroflot spokesman says no, that it's against Russian law

Under Russian law, air carriers are banned from sharing flight passenger data to third parties, Aeroflot spokesman Andrey Sogrin told RT.

http://rt.com/news/snowden-plane-route-cuba-965/#.Ud8QgZoxkC4.twitter

I just read that and thought of you lol

[sabrina 1]

46. Wow, think of how things have changed. RUSSIA is protecting people's privacy while the US

is into everyone's personal business.

[Cleita]

21. Catherina do you know when it's due to arrive in Havana? n/t

[morningfog]

23. 06:27PM CDT (I'm assuming Cuba time)

3 hours left according to link.

[Cleita]

27. Thanks. I hope there are reporters there to verify if he is or isn't on board.eom

[Catherina]

39. There are lol

[Cleita]

40. LOL! There certainly are.

That flight is due to arrive in Havana in ten minutes according to the arrivals Aeroflot has posted.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightTracker/flightTracker.do?id=302537809&airlineCode=SU&flightNumber=150

[Catherina]

43. I can't take this. I'm going to make a sandwich or something. Thanks n/t

[backscatter712]

22. From some reading earlier, other planes have also diverted due to bad weather over Greenland. n/t

Hopefully Snowden's aboard, but this may turn out to be a "Nothing to see, folks."

[Catherina]

31. Very true. I put a link to that in the OP and in post #12

but I hope he's on board 2. AP and other news agencies have reporters waiting in Havana so we'll know soon enough. I hope the possibility presented in #12 is correct.

[JoePhilly]

26. CNN is reporting that Snowden's flight has been spotted ... pic here ...

[DevonRex]

28. So are flights from Madrid, Paris and Amsterdam. It's because of turbulence over Greenland.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/11/turns-out-that-aeroflot-flight-to-havana-is-diverting-because-of-turbulence-over-greenland/

[Cleita]

29. It doesn't mean he's not on board. Could be the perfect time to put him on a plane if he

has obtained the papers he needs.

[DevonRex]

30. Keep dreaming. Putin is out of the equation. Cuba has pulled way back from

the whole thing. In case you haven't noticed.

[morningfog]

34. Has CUba said something since they offered their support to the nations that have

offered asylum?

[DevonRex]

35. Raul did not offer passage or safe harbor. Glaring omission. nt

[morningfog]

36. Offering support does not seem like pulling way back from the whole thing.

And, if not passage, what could support mean? I wouldn't think he is going to send checks for his room and board nor do would I think it is just an empty gesture.

[backscatter712]

37. I don't think Cuba has to do much - if Snowden's smart, he'll spend all of fifteen minutes in Cuba.

Just enough to transfer to another flight to one of the asylum countries.

Technically, Snowden didn't commit a crime in Cuba, nor did he commit a crime in Russia, which is why Russia hasn't arrested him, and Cuba's not likely to arrest him. You really think CUBA is going to extradite anyone to the U.S.? I think not.

If he's got diplomatic papers from whatever country's giving him asylum, he can use those in place of a passport.

[DevonRex]

62. He simply said he supports their sovereign right to offer asylum.

That is not "offering support." As a matter of fact it is also a reminder of Cuba's sovereign right to make its own decision not to be directly involved. Especially in light of how closely it is watched.

[backscatter712]

38. The plane's about to land, so we'll know whether Snowden's on board shortly... n/t

[Catherina]

41. I want him to be on board so badly but I'm not holding my breath n/t

[sabrina 1]

47. All of this could be a diversion to allow him to board another plane which no one is watching

while everyone is focused on this one. It will be fun if he gives a press conference in Venezuela tomorrow after they find out he is not on this flight. Lol!

[Catherina]

51. I just want him to get to his destination and be safe

It would be delightful if he did that!

Here is a lovely short video of President Maduro saying that "No one can threaten us. The day that Snowden decides to come, he's welcome".

[sabrina 1]

63. Excellent! Isn't real Democracy great? I wonder if we'll ever experience it here?

I'm with you, I hope he gets to a safe, Democratic country out of harm's way, however he does it.

[Catherina]

52. Anytime Lumos

[Purveyor]

53. +1 EOM

[Catherina]

50. Not on board. Confirmed by the pilot

RT_Cuba ‏@RT_Cuba 54s

Otra vez, #Snowden no estaba a bordo del vuelo AFL150. Confirmado por el piloto.

[backscatter712]

55. Yep. Nothing to see here. n/t

[Catherina]

56. Same time tomorrow lol? I hope not n/t

[backscatter712]

61. I hope he finds some way to asylum.

It may be that Wikileaks will have to fund-raise to pay for a chartered jet to get Snowden to one of the asylum countries.

And then there's the issue of being able to make the trip unmolested - you'd think that a diplomat either from Russia or from one of the asylum countries could do that - give Snowden refugee papers to use in place of a passport, declare the plane to be a diplomatic transport, officially declare Snowden to be under the protection of the asylum-granting government, and move that way. But as the U.S. and its allies were willing to detain a head of state based on a rumor, that may not be possible.

[kentuck]

57. So he may be on the next couple of flights...

If this was a test run? Putin does not want to create an international incident and neither does the US.

[Catherina]

59. or on a boat, or on a different route, or on a private jet...

or like you said, on any other day. I'd like to wake up one day and just see him on TV wherever he first goes lol.

Those reporters must be getting a nice tan.

[Judi Lynn]

60. Great catch. Thanks, Catherina. n/t