FM of Venezuela says no reply from Snowden...

[allin99]

Venezuela “has not received a formal reply from Snowden” regarding its offer of asylum, Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elias Jaua told Reuters on Thursday.

http://rt.com/usa/nsa-leak-snowden-live-updates-482/

wtf is going *on*?

I think he's dead. No way would he just not respond.

[MADem]

1. Here's my halfassed theory!!!

He's in a sailor suit on a Russian warship!!! His "companion" is being held incommunicado in Moscow, or perhaps they have her squirreled away in the flag staff quarters of a fleet admiral!!

Seriously, look at the source--it's Putin's "Russia Today." They're either chain jerking, or pushing. They KNOW what's going on, and to play the confused and routine while "reporting" on this story is disingenuity in the extreme..!



Gotta hand it to the Russian Navy, they do musical themes quite nicely:

Some travelling music for Sailor Ed!

[allin99]

2. Well, it's either we or the Russians who took or killed him...

and i don't think it was us. So most likely it was Russia. Def. could be on a ship, but really could be anywhere, no reason to put him on a ship to hold or kill him.

[MADem]

13. If it was us, I think Pootie Poot would be screaming from the rooftops about our heavy ham hands!

I wonder just what kind of distraction this "Where's Waldo" silliness is in aid of.


It could well be that State is talking to Colombia, to give them some sort of consideration (aid, trade concessions, something) so that they'd be willing to sign off on (i.e. not make a stink about) a prisoner exchange....i.e. the Russians throw Snowden on a plane, and we give the Russians their beloved Viktor Buut! Or Bout, as the wiki-case may be...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout

Viktor Anatolyevich Bout (Russian: Виктор Анатольевич Бут ) (born 13 January 1967, near Dushanbe, Tajik SSR, Soviet Union) is a convicted Russian arms smuggler of Ukrainian origins.[1] A citizen of Russia, he was arrested in Thailand in 2008 before being extradited in 2010 to the United States to stand trial on terrorism charges, after having being accused of intending to smuggle arms to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) to use against U.S. forces.[2][3][4] On 2 November 2011, he was convicted by a jury in a Manhattan federal court of conspiracy to kill U.S. citizens and officials, deliver anti-aircraft missiles and provide aid to a terrorist organization.[1][5]

A former Soviet military translator,[6] Bout had reportedly made a significant amount of money through his multiple air transport companies,[7] by shipping cargo mostly in Africa and the Middle East during the 1990s and early 2000s.[8] As willing to work for Charles Taylor in Liberia as he was for the United Nations in Sudan and the United States in Iraq,[7][9] Bout may have facilitated huge arms shipments into various civil wars in Africa with his private air cargo fleets during the 1990s.[10]

....In cooperation with American authorities,[9] Royal Thai Police arrested Bout in Bangkok, Thailand, in 2008.[12] The United States demanded his extradition, which was eventually mandated by the Thai High Court in August 2010.[4] Before his extradition to the United States in November 2010, he expressed confidence that this U.S. trial would eventually lead to his acquittal.[13][14] This did not occur.[15] From January 2011 to June 2012 Bout was incarcerated in the Metropolitan Correctional Center, New York City.[citation needed] In June 2012 he was transferred to the United States Penitentiary, Marion in Illinois.[16] On 5 April 2012, he was sentenced to 25 years imprisonment by a U.S. judge.[17][18][19]

There are 'suspicions'--and I hold them, as well--that Viktor is one of Pootie Poot's Very Special and Very Clever lads, and Pootie would like him back ... badly.

Bout's personal website states that he served in the Soviet Army as a translator, holding the rank of Lieutenant.[6] He is thought to have been discharged in 1991 with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.[24] But other sources state he rose to the rank of Major in the GRU[7] (an arm of the Soviet military that combines intelligence services and special forces[7]), that he was an officer in the Soviet Air Forces,[9] that he graduated from a Soviet military intelligence training program,[24] or that he was a KGB operative.[20]

Assuming we've pumped all the "goods" we're gonna get outta Viktor, and perhaps with some assurances that he "finish out his sentence in Russia" (which could be on probation, or whatever, but it would keep him close to home), maybe that's what they are going for...?

In any event, the clock is TICKING. Obama is supposed to visit Pootie's country in September, and his peeps have already passed the word that if Snowden is still there, they'd better not bother making up the bed in the guest bedroom.

[Whisp]

3. or the CIA got him out of there days/weeks ago.

and if we ever hear from him again, we won't know where he's communicating from.

re: turf wars between the CIA and NSA story that was here a few days ago - that Snowden was planted there by the CIA to do exactly what he did.

[allin99]

4. that's the thing though, he *not* communicating..

which means.. dead or held hostage. And if they're holding him, they have to kill him otherwise he tells.

[Whisp]

5. When was the last time he was heard from?

I've lost track of that - do you know?

Maybe he had some pre-recorded stuff done.

and maybe the long (?) silence is just for dramatic effect.

I don't think he is dead, not by Russia's or the U.S. hands anyway. Could be rogue CIA tho - those people don't follow rules or orders.

[allin99]

8. i wanna say the last time was...

well, when he allegendly said the russians didn't take stuff off his drive, that was in response to somethng the NYT wrote, not sure when NYT wrote that.

and that's only "greenwald said". why would he not respond to vnzla but respond to the nyt, ya know?

[MADem]

14. We haven't seen his face with his lips moving since Hong Kong. That IS strange. nt

[Cleita]

11. Hong Kong. He hasn't been seen since then, not even on the flight he was

supposed to be on from Hong Kong to Moscow. Those communications he has released through the Guardian and Wikileaks were not directly from him. He hasn't been seen in the Moscow airport either, kind of weird, don't you think? At least a motel maid or security guard would have seen him and probably wouldn't have minded talking about hin anonymously to a reporter for the right bribe.

[allin99]

12. yeah. i think dead. :(

[MADem]

23. He might not have spent any time at the airport--he might be here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefortovo_Prison

Lefortovo was an infamous KGB prison and criminal investigation isolation ward (Russian: СИЗО, следственный изолятор ) in the Soviet Union for detainment of political prisoners.[1] In 1994 it was transferred to MVD and in years 1996 - 2005 it was handed back to secret police FSB, a successor of the KGB.

[Cleita]

34. I did a post about this last week and suggested the same thing.

What made me suspicious was the Putin in Iceland interview video where he casually talks about Snowden and about how he can't touch him and that he should choose to leave soon. Fer Chrissakes this guy is ex KGB! You can be sure he had them search that airport from top to bottom and if they found him and his laptops took all of them out of their ASAP.

[allin99]

15. Actually, this article says he met with reporters in Russia...

but i find that odd. I remember reading this and thinking..wha? very odd that people didn't jump on these reporters for info on his whereabouts...

http://www.chronicle.su/news/snowden-unveils-nsa-spy-satellite-sauron-program-targeting-us-citizens/

Snowden, looking as if he hadn’t slept in weeks, spoke with Internet Chronicle reporters in the transit corridor of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport. In a near whisper Snowden said, “It is shocking that the U.S. government would appropriate such evil imagery for a so-called security system like this. There is little doubt that this program – I won’t utter the name here – is not concerned with the security of citizens, but rather, it is a bald grab at power for power’s sake.”

Although maybe people did jump on those reporters for info of his whereabouts and that's why he hasn't been heard from since.

[Cleita]

17. I didn't see that. But it also begs the question why didn't they take some photos.

It's not like he has to hide his identity. He's out there already. Your source is a little out there I have to say so somewhat suspect.

[allin99]

21. turns out the article is a prank.

[Cleita]

22. Figures. n/t

[MADem]

27. That, I am afraid, is an unfunny joke article.

Look to the right of this "story" and you will see....

HOURLY BREAKING NEWS UPDATES
Snowden uncovers shocking truth behind Chemtrails
Snowden reveals HAARP’s Global Assassination Agenda
Snowden Granted Sainthood
Glenn Greenwald’s Journalism
Snowden Gone Wild!
Venezuelan Asylum Achieved, Snowden reveals UFO Documents
Snowden unveils NSA Satellite SAURON Program targeting Citizens

[Cali_Democrat]

6. Did you see the posh hotel he was staying at while in Hong Kong?

I think he figured he could stay there forever, but Hong Kong tossed him out.

My guess? The guy is a spoiled brat and he doesn't want to live in a poor country like Venezuela for the rest of his life.

[MADem]

30. He was at the Mandarin--very nice, on the Kowloon side!

Then they squirreled him away to "somewhere else" and then, next thing we knew, he was on a plane....

[Cleita]

7. Or he's in jail somewhere in either China or Russia and held incommunicado.

I doubt if either nation would be very forthcoming with the information.

[HipChick]

9. That settles it...CIA or Russians have him...Assange is grandstanding

[Scurrilous]

10. Maybe he has his headphones on and can't hear the phone ringing. n/t

[randome]

19. Or the wind is whistling in his ears.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Whisp]

18. if he is dead, then I wonder what happened to the Wikileaks woman. n/t

[Cleita]

20. She's disappeared off the radar too. There were some articles in British papers about her

parents worrying about her because they haven't heard from her. Sorry I don't have any links and don't have time to dig them up right now. Her name is Sarah Harrison.

[Whisp]

24. thanks for the name - Sarah Harrison.

I hope they are just playing their game. If they are found dead or not heard from again that could be a huge shit&fire storm from all directions.



http://wikileaks.org/Profile-Sarah-Harrison.html

[allin99]

25. i'm not sure why but i feel like...

if we it turns out he's dead or held captive, which we'll probably know in a few days if there's no communication to vnzla (and notice not a word from wikileaks saying they've talked to or communicated with him), i think people will drop the entire privacy issue, it will just be too dark, ya know?

[MADem]

31. She is also well known as a "former lover" of Assange...

Given his track record I hope she gets tested, assuming she's otherwise OK.

This is the "worried parents" article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351726/Were-proud-Wikileaks-daughter-say-family-British-blonde-went-run-CIA-whistleblower.html

[Whisp]

36. Both her sisters live in Hong Kong...

from your link:

Both of Sarah’s sisters – Kate, 29, who works for a fashion export firm, and Alex, 23, who is an events PR – live in Hong Kong, where Snowden was briefly staying while on the run.

That's kind of interesting in a coincidental kind of way, isn't it?

[MADem]

40. They might have provided the "crash pad" for awhile... nt

[Cleita]

35. Or maybe crickets. Our side doesn't want this to make them look bad either. n/t

[CakeGrrl]

26. If he's dead, whose purpose is Greenwald serving relaying "messages" from him?

Just milking the media/cash cow? Any huckster can tweet that so-and-so says hi!

Greenwald has not offered any proof of his alleged contact.

I wonder if anyone will EVER know where Snowden really is or isn't?

[randome]

28. They are spy wannabes playing spy games.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[MADem]

32. Perhaps GG doesn't want to admit he's been "tooled?"

He thought he was a reporter with a big story, and now he's just a schmuck? Someone who was used, then discarded?

Maybe the Russians...or Assange... are feeding him bullshit and he's buying it?

Or maybe the Russians have him on ice because they want to trade him for Putin's intel agent, Viktor Buut, doing a quarter century in a US prison...?

[Turbineguy]

29. Probably smart.

Lots of kidnapping gangs who would look to sell him to the U.S.

[hack89]

33. Maybe he doesn't want to go to Venezuela

and hopes he can get a better offer.

[allin99]

38. he would still have contacted. Esp after...

vnzla said a couple of days ago they hadn't heard from him, he would have at that point done so. He's dead or being held.

[flamingdem]

37. Rumor on twitter last night said that Snowden's dad is negotiating for his return

That makes sense, what with his US Libertarian lawyer they could make lots of hay with a dumbed down US public that wants a hero.

The USA is worried he has the names of agents. This was in the news today. So I'm guessing they're negotiating hard with Putin.

Putin can blame the dad and get away with not looking wussy this way.

Snowdad is however asking that there not be a gag order, sticking point.

[randome]

39. 'Snowdad'. Is there a 'Snowmom'? I don't recall hearing anything about his mother.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[flamingdem]

43. Looks like mom doesn't like the media spotlight

Dad however looked like he was ready to utilize his son to make a big Libertarian neo-con drama with that lawyer he hired

[allin99]

42. Certainly could be, which makes sense why wikileaks never started the...

fundraising campaign for his flight.

[flamingdem]

44. Wikileaks is mum, something's going on nt

[allin99]

45. yup.

[DevonRex]

41. No photos of him on flight from Hong Kong to Moscow.

No photos in the airport. What, everybody suddenly lost their iPhones at the same time? He never went to Moscow.

[allin99]

46. hmmm. But when they interviewed people getting off the flight...

no one knew what the hell they were talking about, they didn't even know the guys name let alone his face, so i don't think they would have been taking pictures.

[DevonRex]

47. Hard to believe that after all the protests in Hong Kong, all the publicity

that not one person knew who he was or recognized him. Did they only interview the clueless? This was in Russia, you know. It still operates exactly like it used to when it was the USSR.

[allin99]

50. people are less likely...

to be enthralled with drama that doesn't apply to them, and at that point it had not applied to them.

[bunnies]

48. Maybe he *wants* people to think he's dead.

Would be pretty convenient for him, no?

[allin99]

49. Doesn't help him get to vnzla UNLESS....

the FM of vnzla is actually covering for him and coming out and making such a statement, but that doesn't really help him either b/c the U.S. will not assume he's dead.

[bunnies]

51. hmmm. true.

But doesnt Snowden have a traveling "companion"? I'd think that if she went MIA Assange would be screaming from the rooftops.

[allin99]

57. ah, good one. Which is he could be...

missing or dead and her not be. but she is def. not missing. thanks. def. 1 part mystery solved.

[Life Long Dem]

52. People say it's not about Snowden.

Then what he leaked should be able to stand on it's own and fixed without even mentioning Snowden.

[allin99]

53. i get the feeling if he's dead...

it will be so dark that i think people will stay away from the issue. Not the people are are really anti extended surveillance. i mean the fence sitters or the more quietly approving types. It gives you that dark feeling that makes you want to just forget it and shut your mouth.

If he's dead, the pro nsa people here will be happy and it will be easier for them to claim some sort of victory, and squash any idea of civil liberties and the nsa, while the anti-nsa'ers here will probably stick with the aclu and keep up the argument. but i wonder in the public. i think it's better if he lives.

i'm hoping it's only the dems here that are more pro surveillance than against. i went to a fundraiser last night for a dem candidate, people wren't really talking about it b/c it's sort of taboo at the moment among gov't officials. Although it was a liberal candidate, so no doubt were we have talked about it i'm sure they would be more pro aclu argument. I only deal with liberal dems for the most part though, so i don't know about this anti aclu shit. lol. But with the public,i think the darkness would have an effect. And not a good one. (well, not good for the anti extended surveillance crowd)

(on a personal level, i would find it quite sad, esp. because i'm glad that he forced clapper to come out, and he forced the conversation in the public in general). And personally, i'd much rather root for him than the U.S. gov't storing all my data (METADATA), etc.

[NoPasaran]

54. Maybe he has a "cold"

Like the one Brezhnev had.

[EX500rider]

55. or the one Trotsky had...

.....(a ice pick is cold, right?)

[roamer65]

56. I still think he's in mainland China.

Just a feeling. Very easy to "disappear" there.