General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere is nothing reasonable about shooting and killing an unarmed child. Period.
The Zimmerman defenders are out in full force insisting to us that Zimmerman was justified in shooting an unarmed black kid and if any of us try to say otherwise then we are ignoring the evidence that shows he may be innocent.
Sorry, but must of us are not that fucking stupid.
The law clearly states that in order to use deadly force the situation must be such that a reasonable person would take a life. It doesn't say that the killer must believe that taking a life is necessary, it says that a reasonable person would believe that taking a life is necessary and if the killer did not act reasonably then he should be found guilty regardless of his personal thoughts.
I am sorry but a reasonable person does not call the police at the mere site of a black kid walking down the street.
A reasonable person does not then chase that black kid down and personally confront them rather than waiting for police.
A reasonable person does not shoot and kill an unarmed person over a bloody nose and a couple of scratches on the head.
A reasonable person generally is able to make it through their entire lives without even thinking of killing an unarmed person, and a reasonable person would hold a very high standard as to what justifies deadly force against a child.
This is not just a question of whether or not Zimmerman lied about what happened, I personally believe Zimmerman is a chronic liar but even if he were telling truth he would still need to convince the jury that the level of force he used was reasonable. He needs to convince the jury that it was reasonable to shoot straight for the heart and take a life rather than shooting in the leg to disable but still allow to live. Even if the jury believes his story is 100% true but also believe that he could have reasonably done more to escape the situation without taking a life, then they need to convict him.
The people who are defending the murder of an unarmed child make me absolutely sick, Zimmerman's supporters are a stain on our nation and I strongly believe that if it were a white kid that were killed in the exact same circumstances they would be calling to lock the killer up and throw away the key. There is a long history of racism in this country and those who dismiss racism are either ignorant of history or they are racists themselves.
There is nothing reasonable about George Zimmerman's actions, I hope the jury can see that and votes to convict. If the jury does not see that then it is the duty of all of us to raise hell and demand the law is changed to crack down on racist gun nuts who shoot unarmed children and then try to pretend it is self defense.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)As I said on another thread, it's really not about what Zimmerman thought or did, it's about what a reasonable person would think or do.
I agree with you about changing the laws also. Florida is a big tourist state. If people begin to think its dangerous there, it could hurt their top industry. I think that could be used to work for stricter laws.
I'm really hoping the jury convicts Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder because that's what I believe he's guilty of.
Great post!
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)People should be very vocal that they will not travel to Florida until the law is changed. If enough people are vocal about it there will be businesses demanding the law is changed, even in Florida there are few people who are so passionate about the right to murder unarmed children that they would risk harming the state's economy just to make the gun nuts happy.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)This is the state that put the nation;s largest Dixie flag up because people tried to clean up the racist side of local festivals in time for the superbowl.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)To me it is so clear cut. A slight young man with a bag of Skittles......oh,it's just too sad....
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Blue Bike
(65 posts)You're right.
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)Iwasthere
(3,168 posts)Agree with all of it. In my opinion they do not shoot for a leg anymore or use any other means of control often enough. We have a police force in this country that is, in part, inexperienced, and afraid, and also underpaid. It's pretty easy to become an officer now, many are noble and good, however many are not, way too many bullys and are attracted to the profession. Then there are these wanabe cops that pull shit like this. CONVICT!
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)niyad
(113,364 posts)Taft_Bathtub
(224 posts)I find it quite disgusting that people are rationalizing shooting someone who was walking home from the convenience store. It's so sad.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)... and it's a good thing. I hope those six women jurors show how justice is done and GZ is in the slammer by this time tomorrow night...
UTUSN
(70,711 posts)When does self-defense begin? What if the need for self-defense was precipitated by Z when he followed and encountered the other person? The other person was feeling threatened himself.
I've Googled to pin down whether the MENENDEZ bros actually asked for leniency based on their being "orphans" (after they killed the parents; instigated the orphaning). There were scattered references, some saying it was one of the juries asking for leniency on that basis. Couldn't pin it down.
Is there a parallel?
yardwork
(61,652 posts)I am convinced that if he is acquitted, he will kill again.
And there's something seriously wrong with the people who defend Zimmerman.
targetpractice
(4,919 posts)The numerous lies, the complete lack of accountability (belief that he acted according to God's plan), and the fact that he WENT TO THE BEACH the weekend after killing another human being I agree, there is something seriously wrong with him.
targetpractice
(4,919 posts)
because they broke into fragments upon penetrating the body to do maximum tissue damage to the target.
But, guess what? During this trial, I learned that Zimmerman's use of hollow-point bullets was actually very reasonable of him. By loading his gun with eight hollow-point bullets, he could shoot a "suspect" whenever he needed and avoid potentially injuring someone else, because those bullets would disintegrate in the "suspect's torso." That's reasonable, right?
AllINeedIsCoffee
(772 posts)And they are looking for an excuse to kill.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED
lindysalsagal
(20,692 posts)Nothing else to say. You don't exit your car to engage a "suspicious" person. And walking down the street with your hood up in the rain isn't suspicious.
I think both sets of lawyers have missed the point. He got out of the car. It was his choice. The gun was not visible. It was all zimmerman from the beginning.
This child did nothing wrong.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Well, thank goodness you are the reasonable one, eh?
How do you know THIS happened, again?
"A reasonable person does not then chase that black kid down and personally confront them rather than waiting for police."
Crepuscular
(1,057 posts)but there is nothing "reasonable" about the absolutist nature of your premise. There are any number of scenarios where using lethal force in self defense that results in killing an unarmed "child" may meet the legal standard for being "reasonable".
Let's say a 17 year old male "child" breaks into the apartment of a single female and try's to rape her, after hitting her a few times. If the victim can get their hands on a knife or a gun or some other weapon and used it to stop the assault by killing her attacker, my guess is that most people would find the killing of an unarmed "child" to be a pretty reasonable response in that scenario.
Whether or not Zimmerman's actions reach the level of reasonable self defense is up to the jury to decide.
TBF
(32,068 posts)That is the most pertinent question in this whole sad affair. Why did he exit the vehicle? The authorities told him to stay put, told him officers were on the way, but he wanted to play vigilante. Fucking ridiculous.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)including lying about what actually happened. if he had come clean, shown some remorse, etc., said is was a tragic mistake...
but instead he concocted a lie and hoped a bunch of racists would buy it. they did, but they are the only ones.