Catholic Bishop says to keep weddings in church

[JohnnyLib2]

"Catholics who want their weddings outdoors or in other unconventional settings might be surprised when their priest declines."

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120217/COLUMNISTS22/302180015/Archbishop-Kurtz-weddings-churches?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home


And awaaaaay we go, again

[Orangepeel]

1. *shrug*

As long as they don't try to keep everybody else's wedding indoors, who cares?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. What he thinks is irrelevant. IMHO anyway.

[MH1]

21. Yeah, the Catholic Church making pronouncements on moral issues

fits somewhere alongside a convicted thief talking about respecting other people's property.

[pnwmom]

36. It's relevant to Catholics who want a priest to officiate at their wedding.

And this isn't news to most Catholics -- it's always been Church practice, because a Catholic wedding is a religious ceremony.

I don't know why a non-Catholic would care.

[Irishonly]

3. Good grief

Just when you think it has gotten as insane as it is going to get, you find out you were wrong. They want to control a woman's right to choose, her uterus and a lot more that I can think of right now. Next, they will be demanding approval for how one dresses.

[pnwmom]

12. Is it so unreasonable for Catholic priests to say they will only conduct

Catholic religious ceremonies in Catholic churches?

This is nothing new.

[BuroshKozorg]

16. The way you put it does not sound unreasonable

As far as I know a formal Catholic Wedding Mass includes the Eucharist, which may be a bit inconvenient in the outdoors.

I don't know anything about Canon Law, not being Catholic, but is this a blanket decision, or is it a decision that is up to the priests themselves? If it's up to the individual priests, then I don't even see what the big deal is.

[pnwmom]

37. It's church law, but I don't see why any non-Catholic would care.

If a Catholic wants a church wedding, then it takes place in a Church with a priest. But no one's forcing Catholics to do that, and more and more don't.

My daughter was married in our Catholic Church, and I was impressed with how positive the experience was -- and how welcoming they were to her husband, who wasn't Catholic or any other Christian denomination. There was no pressure put on either one of them.

However, there was the understanding that the ceremony would be taking place in the Church. That made sense to both my daughter and her husband, since it would be a Catholic ceremony.

[JohnnyLib2]

4. Here's more from the same bishop (Louisville):

"Louisville Roman Catholic Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary President Albert Mohler signed a letter decrying the revised federal mandate for free contraceptives for employees at many faith-based agencies. Opponents view it as an infringement on religious freedom.

Kurtz and Mohler — who increasingly find themselves allied in culture-war disputes such as their opposition to same-sex marriage — signed the letter dated Monday by a coalition of religious leaders."

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120216/NEWS01/302160053/Louisville-religious-leaders-Obama-contraceptive?odyssey=nav|head

[jberryhill]

5. Hey Bishop, Please Keep Your Entire Religion In There

I agree wholeheartedly with this Bishop. Keep your religion in your churches. Don't bring it out into public parks, town squares, and by all means don't let it anywhere near the legislature.

Do we have a deal?

[beac]

26. "Amen" to that!

[Angry Dragon]

6. I think it is just so they can keep an eye on the alter boys

[Old and In the Way]

7. I expect more of this stuff going forward.

It's the Republicanisation of the Church. They've recaptured the Bishop-class and their views are reflected by people like Bill O'Donohue. They want their pre-liberalised Church back. The world has changed, but they've stayed faithful to the doctrinaire rigidity of pre-Vatican Council ii. They are social conservatives with a vengeance. They want their social order back, the secrecy and the community power back. But, like their counterparts in politics, they may win their battle...but they cannot win the war. The rewards for their demands to return to a traditional society ordered in pre-1960 values will be fewer attendees at Mass and a lot more practicing lapsed Catholics. Have at it, guys.

[pnwmom]

14. They are getting more conservative, but THIS rule is nothing new at all.

I've never attended a Catholic wedding outside of a Church. It's a religious ceremony, so they hold it in a Church.

[Irishonly]

20. I have

It's been a long time ago (1973) but it was outside in a beautiful park in Des Moines.

[pnwmom]

35. I got married in that decade and it wasn't an option for us.

If a Catholic priest really did officiate at that ceremony, it was his personal decision -- not in accordance with Church practice.

But I still don't see why anyone would think it's a big deal that a Catholic Church would want to hold its religious ceremonies inside its place of worship.

[Irishonly]

42. I see it differently than you do

If a couple chooses to be married in a church that it great. If they want a ceremony when dawn breaks and if their guests are willing to get up that early that is great also. I am not Catholic, was married in a church but I do not understand why a church needs to issue rulings as to where someone can get married. They most certainly can and did but to someone who has never attended a church like that does that it seems strange. There are a lot more important things to worry about, IMO and that's what it is my opinion.

[pnwmom]

43. You're wrong about what I think. I think it's fine if a couple wants an outdoor ceremony.

However, I also think it's fine if a priest says he only performs religious wedding ceremonies in the church.

I agree there are a lot more important things to worry about, so I can't understand why a non-Catholic would care about this at all.

[Irishonly]

44. Everyone has opinions n/t

[TlalocW]

8. The one weird Catholic wedding rule I never understood

No playing/singing of Jim Croce's, "Time in a Bottle."

TlalocW

[pnwmom]

10. Catholic weddings are religious ceremonies,

usually a part of a Mass.

They don't play secular music in a Catholic religious ceremony.

Is that really so weird to you?

[TlalocW]

13. Well, the specific naming of that song is what threw me

Eh.

TlalocW

[pnwmom]

38. That is strange, unless they just used that as an example.

The general rule is they only play Sacred music in the sanctuary, not pop music.

[MADem]

18. I've been to Catholic weddings in the past where secular music "flew."

It was popular love songs--crap like the Carpenters or Ann Murray put out-- definitely not religious. They did Ave Maria during the communion, but secular tunes up and down the aisle.

This guy would probably crack down on that stuff.

[pnwmom]

39. I think they were probably looser with the rules in the 70's.

There are a lot of hardline bishops these days.

[MADem]

45. I think the crackdown is even more recent.

Everything started to loosen up in the later sixties, and even up to the nineties I enjoyed a pre-recorded version of Etta James' 'At Last' when the happy couple came back down the aisle. It was somewhat of a reward for sitting through a full blown mass in a drafty church.

I am racking my brain trying to remember if I've been to a Roman Catholic wedding in the last decade or so....I'm not coming up with any, so they either were unremarkable, or the children/grandchildren of my Catholic friends have all fallen away from the fold!

[pnwmom]

46. We anticipated difficulties because my son-in-law wasn't Christian,

much less Catholic -- but there weren't any.

At the end of their junior year, they went to talk to the priest at their college, asking whether this was going to pose a problem -- and he said definitely not, from his point of view. And he said if her pastor here wouldn't marry them (after graduation), then he would be happy to.

Then her pastor here was delighted to marry them, so that's what they did. I did get the feeling that fewer young people are making the choice these days, so both of these priests were happy to perform the ceremony -- even if the groom wasn't Christian. And the pastor here not only didn't pressure him to convert -- he said that this wouldn't be the appropriate time to convert. It should be something my son-in-law did because he wanted to, not in order to marry.

[MADem]

48. What good luck!

Of course, college priests used to be "cooler" than the average cleric, but to hit two priests who didn't throw up obstacles is really a lucky break.

Did your daughter's pastor hit the happy couple up for five thousand bucks worth of "Catholic wedding planning?" I have a feeling that some of these expenditures are going into the "Cardinal Above-The Law Payoff Fund" -- at least in New England.

If I'd only heard of these unbelievable demands for money from one couple, it would be one thing--but I've heard it at least three times. It's a mind-blower!

[pnwmom]

49. No. We were asked to pay the church coordinator $250,

but that was a drop in the bucket of wedding costs.

If we hadn't been able to afford it, they wouldn't have pushed for that. But they knew how many people we were having, and where the reception was occurring, so it was obvious we could afford that amount.

[MADem]

50. Wow, that's a deal! nt

[pnwmom]

9. This is nothing new. Most people who want a church wedding want a church wedding.

Not a beach wedding or a country club wedding.

[dimbear]

11. Even some of the popes didn't get married in churches. Julius III, for instance. n/t

[Zoeisright]

15. And he would know so much about weddings because ...

he's a never-been-married "celibate" male? Who knows nothing about women? Or love?

STFU, you old man.

[MADem]

17. And their priest may be surprised when the happy couple says PISS OFF, Padre!

I recently attended a wedding of two lovely kids, both raised Catholic, who were married by one of their best friends, who got one of those "license for a day" deals. It was a great ceremony, very personal, and the friend-officiant put a lot of thought into the whole thing. He did a very good job--made the day very memorable.

They apparently didn't want pay a five thousand dollar fee for "premarital counseling" and "Catholic wedding planning" and rental of the church. That didn't include the reception, FWIW, but if they wanted to have an alcohol-free shindig in the church hall (they would have to pay a hefty rental for that crappy place), the "priest wedding planner" could have put them in touch with caterers who give a kickback to the church for additional fees.

I can't say as I blamed them. The parents of both bride and groom thought the priest was attempting to commit highway robbery as well. They were ready to get married in the church, but they thought a five grand "fee" for bullshit was a stickup. Instead, they got married at the reception venue; the staff set up chairs and a little arch with flowers, and after the ceremony, everyone went and had a few pops at the bar while they reconfigured the room for a meal. It all went very smoothly--fun day.

[Sherman A1]

19. +1

Good for them! The Catholic Church (and all of them in my opinion) are nothing more than another business. If they fail to meet the needs of their customers, then their customers can take their business down the street.

[tinymontgomery]

22. What is interesting in this whole debate

is that the conservatives were concerned that JFK would listen to the pope if elected. Now who is listening to the catholic church.

[fascisthunter]

24. excellent point

[fascisthunter]

23. Pssssst... you are Losing CONTROL!!!! What shall you ever doooooo?????

How about be a part of the human race and stop trying to be GOD of it all!

[Arugula Latte]

31. Oooh, I know!!!

*raises hand enthusiastically*

Become even more ridiculously pompous and moralistic and increase the velocity by which they shove dogma down peoples' throats?!

[marlakay]

25. I know a few people who got married twice

Just because one had to be in catholic church to be considered really married by their faith...I had no idea the church charged that much..what do their poorer members do??

[CatholicEdHead]

27. This has been SOP for weddings for a long time

in that in the Theology, it can only be done in the blessed sanctuary. Many more modern priests have done them outside the Church walls, but they are becoming fewer and fewer. I am fine with Catholic Weddings to be held outside the brick and mortar Church walls.

[hughee99]

28. I don't see what they big deal is...

if you want a catholic priest to perform the wedding, they want you to do it in a catholic church.

My wife and I are both Catholic. When we got married she wanted to have her priest marry us, but when she found out that not only did we have to do it in her church, but also they couldn't get us anywhere near the date or time she wanted, she told them never mind. We got married at a very nice place by a JP.

[mulsh]

29. this was pretty muc standard policy in 1991 when we got married.

my Presbyterian in laws insisted my wife and I have a "Catholic" ceremony.( I know, duh?). My wife & I were sort of ambibuous, my parents a little less so, they were relieved I "found someone". anyway my parent's parish would not perform and out doors ceremony. Fortunately the Monsignor recommended a friend who is a bishop in the Orthodox Roman Catholic Church. They adhere to pre-Vatican I church beliefs and they're recognized by Rome.

We had our ceremony in the faculty club grove on CAL's campus. even my mom's hard core Catholic friends were impressed.

[Arugula Latte]

30. Your desperate grasp on the sheep is slipping, Bishop.

[whistler162]

32. Must have rewrote the Bible....

Was -

"Matthew 18:20
New International Version (NIV)

20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Now -

"Matthew 18:20
New International Version (NIV)

20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them as long as it is in a building.”

[JohnnyLib2]

33. LOL

It will be interesting to watch for exceptions to this rule.

[HillWilliam]

34. Suits me. I'm a professional officiant

The more these screecher-preacher types turn couples away, the more business for me.

[MADem]

47. There's a growing number of priests who have left the fold who will cheerfully do "Catholic-ish"

ceremonies for couples who want to please some farty older relatives. I guess they charge a bit more, but if you don't want Auntie SoAndSo or Uncle SuchAndSuch to have too much of a cow, it's worth the change--and certainly cheaper than having to jump through the hoops (with associated expenses) the actual church demands.

[LiberalEsto]

40. I believe that in the Middle Ages

most marriage vows were exchanged outside the church.

Amazing how they switch back and forth on various things.

[Iggo]

41. If ya kept the whole goddam thing in there...

...I'd back you a thousand percent, Bishop old boy!!!