OK. Do you think a couple should be able choose between having a daughter or son?

[denem]

Note: I am not going into particular mechanics here, let alone IVF or abortion.

How many couples do you know who have had three boys or three girls, in the hope of having their first son son or daughter?

Today it's a vexed question. Tomorrow, not so much.

There will be a pill, injection or creme to maximize the opportunities of XY or YY sperm.

How many couples do you know who kept on going to get their first daughter or son?

AND, if selection is available, is it OK?

[jberryhill]

1. We let the kids decide!

[MADem]

16. You are intelligent parents! nt

[virgogal]

2. That would be fine with me.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I think they should be able to choose whichever they want.

[JSnuffy]

4. My sister is a perfect example...

Girl.. Girl... Girl.. Desperation... Last gasp.. Boy

Success!

[exboyfil]

14. I guesss I never understood the psychology of wanting a particular

sex of child and letting that desire be known to your children. Both of my daughters are a celebration, and I have never regretted not having a son. I am not sure that I would have reared them any differently if they had been boys though. They are not Tomboys but neither are they stereotypical girls. They were never interested in dolls. They liked stuffed animals and playing with animal figures.

They each have their own interests, but they share my interest in science, books, and learning. Neither is much of an athlete (neither was I).

[JSnuffy]

18. It's a bit of a spread...

It really hits hard on the third daughter because only reason she exists is because they were trying for that boy.

I know that I have a preference but it isn't all consuming and the same goes for my wife.

[Darth_Kitten]

64. That poor child.

ONLY reason she exists? That is just beyond pathetic. No offence, but your sister doesn't seem like good motherhood material.

[Mariana]

71. I think that's very common.

My own brother (third child) only exists because my parents had two girls first. If my sister or I had been a boy, they would not have had a third child.

I have one child, a girl, and she wasn't even born yet before people were asking me if we going to try for a boy next. Some of them were people who knew I only wanted to have one child. It rather pissed me off at the time.

[Darth_Kitten]

76. It's very sad, and people may want to think WHY they want a child to begin with.

It may be common, but sad nonetheless.

Lots of people would just like ONE child, and would consider themselves blessed. Oh, well.

[phylny]

46. This is a touchy issue with me.

We had two girls, and I wanted another child (not necessarily a boy, but another child). My husband was fine with the two girls. We talked back and forth for a while and decided to go for it.

Throughout my pregnancy, it was amazing how many people assumed we were "trying for a boy." When our third daughter was born, we were thrilled, as was everyone else in our family.

And still, people made assumptions. One mother (of two girls!) asked me at Kindergarten pickup, "Were you really disappointed that you didn't have a boy?"

At this point, I was sorta fed up and answered, "Yep, we've decided we're giving her away and we're gonna try again until we get it right."

So, back to the OP's point, it matters not to me what other people do. Our three daughters are the light of our lives - all different, all wonderful. Having two brothers whom I love dearly, I envy our girls their sisters and love having them around. My husband loves it, and we get to tease him that he's lived in the "House of Hormones," but he wouldn't have it any other way. We joke that we'll probably have six grandsons and will be aching for a granddaughter.

I think in general that you have the child you were meant to have, whether that child is born to you, adopted, or fostered.

[Darth_Kitten]

63. Well, it's great to know your sister found her daughters so disappointing.

Why did she want to have children anyways? Poor unwanted girls.

[shraby]

5. That's a question each couple can make for themselves. Not any of my business.

Nor is it anyone else's business.

[denem]

9. 'couples can make for themselves' = Yes

It not my business or yours, and NOT the State.

[Ilsa]

6. I can see where having a choice

Might mean fewer births, but I wonder if we could see cycles of fewer boys or fewer girls.

[abelenkpe]

7. I have two friends at work

who didn't have kids until they were around 40, used IVF and had boy/girl twins for the instant family thing.

[2ndAmForComputers]

8. Yes. It should be allowed.

[oldhippie]

51. I think I would prefer that it not be prohibited .....

Slightly different nuance from just being allowed.

[2ndAmForComputers]

54. What's the difference?

[oldhippie]

57. There is a BIG difference .....

... between "all that is not prohibited is allowed" and "all that is not allowed is prohibited." It reflects on your state of freedom. It's the difference between individual liberty and authoritarianism.

I can't believe that I have to explain that on a democratic forum.

[2ndAmForComputers]

59. I'm well aware of that. Obviously I used "allowed" as shorthand for "no law against it."

[rug]

10. I know a guy, who likes to be called Chas, who has four daughters.

His youngest is named Charley.

I think he gave up.

[denem]

12. I take it that's a yes.

[rug]

13. Under the present circumstances it is.

If there were technology available to predetermine the sex of a child, probably no. There are significant ethical and demographic issues with that.

Suppose there was technology avaiable to predetermine sexual orientation. Yea or nay?

[Honeycombe8]

11. I wouldn't call that choosing. It's more like hoping or trying for the other gender.

There have always been tricks of the trade, so to speak, to try and have one gender or the other. I think that's okay.

But I'm against specifically CHOOSING, which is different, IMO.

[denem]

19. If the effectiveness of intervention is say 99&,

then yes it is a choice.

And who are you, or anyone. to walk into interpersonal decision and say NO.

[Honeycombe8]

60. There's no need to be rude. The OP asked a theoretical opinion question...

posters have replied.

What each of us BELIEVES is our right, and our opinion. The question was not, "Do you think you have a right to prevent someone else from choosing gender of a child?" Then the question, even then, would've had to have defined "choosing," since his question about choosing was not, IMO, a "choice." Using creams and such to try to have a specific gender is not choosing a gender.

Read the question again, and then read the responses, incl. mine. This is not a discussion of preventing others from doing anything.

BTW, there is a "choosing" option that has been used before: In China, when the govt decreed that families could have only one or two children, women were killing their female babies. That's because sons were more helpful in the farm fields. That is what I would call choosing. But who are WE to interfere in someone else's choice, huh?

Women have been using creams, sex positions, and other things for many years to try to have one gender or another. It's a natural human thing to have a preference for just about anything. It doesn't mean you wouldn't want and be happy with either, though. You are not "choosing."

[Bonobo]

15. Better question: Should everyone have an opinion on what every one else does? nt

[uppityperson]

41. ++++++++++++++++++++++

[Posteritatis]

58. To be fair, it's the sort of question people should be asking themselves as well

There aren't any kids in my near future, but if there were, and the sort of ability mentioned in the OP was reliably around, I'd have to put a lot of thought into where my stance would be.

[Politicalboi]

17. I knew a couple in the 60's

I was a kid at the time, they either had 6 or 9 girls trying for a boy. Yes I think parents should have the option to choose.

[JI7]

20. i think it's stupid but i wouldn't support anything to ban their right to do so

[FarLeftFist]

21. My neighbor growing up had 5 kids hoping for a boy. All girls.

[justiceischeap]

24. At least now we know why women are outnumbering men. nt

[JSnuffy]

27. I dunno what it is...

... but it seems like there is a metric @#$@ton of girls and hardly any boys among my peers having babies right now.

Dunno...

[laundry_queen]

31. There was a documentary here

in Canada, sometime ago so I can't even remember what it was called, but it was based on some interesting birth rates among a few aboriginal communities where the girl births were out numbering the boy births by a large, unnatural margin - like more than 2 to 1. It's been awhile, but I think they were blaming it on some closeby chemical spill and how Y sperm tend to be very sensitive to environmental damage vs X sperm. Or something. Damn, i wish I could remember the name of it...

[Zalatix]

35. If that trend were worldwide that would become VERY bad news for women.

Betcha no one even realizes why.

Hint: look at China and reverse their situation.

[laundry_queen]

37. Yep, pretty scary. nt

[SoCalDem]

70. A doctor once told me that females are the hardier embryo/zygote, so perhaps they survive

more often, and the less fortunate males who might be affected by the intervention, do not survive long enough to implant properly and grow into a fetus/baby.

[laundry_queen]

77. Maybe it's that or perhaps a combination of those things.

It would be interesting to study it.

[kestrel91316]

22. It's NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

[justiceischeap]

23. I'm not a big fan of monkeying with nature

I see all kinds of nefarious uses, heck, just look at some of the things that happened in Germany when the nazi's tried to manipulate nature. I would say this could only lead to trouble for someone, somewhere.

[JHB]

49. You might want to think that through more...

...since we "monkey with nature" on a lot of things, and a lot of times that's a good thing. On this general topic, contraception and abortion would also qualify as "monkeying".

I think what has happened with this form of sex selection in the real world shows it to be (at a minimum) profoundly unwise, and there really is a public interest in preventing it.

[justiceischeap]

53. Okay, how about I selectively disagree with monkeying with nature?

You're exactly right, a lot of good things have come about but if the people doing it lack ethics, it's a very bad thing.

[Posteritatis]

55. I love it when people say stuff like this on the internet. (nt)

[loyalsister]

25. I think it's a little creepy

and a slippery slope. The more we get into genetic engineering the more we see a devaluation of people who only exist because their parents made a bad decision. Is it more expensive to raise girls? Are there so many that the traditional male power structure is threatened. Then what happens if we over correct? I know we are not behind on reproduction, but do we get closer to setting up conditions for a creation of "superior human breeding?" Is the fact that we are basically overpopulated a potentially a justification for policies with that in mind? We know that there is a segment of people in the US who are concerned about the white race disappearing into a brown and black America.

I wouldn't feel comfortable imposing my beliefs on someone else, but I think we should be careful where such ideas take us.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. No!

I've screwed up enough decisions. Things like this should not be left up to me.

On the other hand, Mrs. Goldstein's pretty smart, so it might be OK if I just smile and nod my head in agreement.

[MADem]

28. In India, though illegal, it is not unheard of for sex selection to occur as a consequence of

ultrasound followed by abortion. In China, too, land of the one child family, this happens, and there are more boys than girls...many of the girls are in North America and in Europe, now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion

I suppose if there was a way to easily pre-select the gender without invasive procedures, it would be easier on the mother if the parents are bound and determined to have that boy first and foremost.

In time, the "value" (in quotes because I am being ironic, not literal) of a woman in these cultures will skyrocket. Scarcity has a way of doing that--it would be nice to see the tables turned.

It's a shame that people still give a crap what gender of child they have. If you have a healthy kid you are lucky. If you raise that kid, healthy or not, with love and nurturing and compassion, odds are that you're going to end up with a good human being.

[Zalatix]

38. I'm a big fan of judging actions by consequences. When sex selection was legal in India & China...

the consequences were pretty drastic. Now there's a huge surplus of males and a shortage of women, and major unrest over this imbalance is looming over the horizon for both nations. China is relieving pressure by sending Asian men to take African women, luring them into relationships with their flaunted Chinese wealth. India may be next to exploit Africa in this regard. In short, the world is going to see the consequences of that problem.

However, another problem is surfacing as a result of gender selection tactics: wife sharing and the trafficking of women.

More here: http://www.allgirlsallowed.org/category/topics/gender-imbalance-china

[MADem]

40. That is some fascinating research...

The tensions associated with so many bachelors in China's big cities might tempt its future leaders to mobilize this excess manpower and go pick a fight, or invade another country. China is already co-opting poor unmarried young men into the People's Liberation Army and the paramilitary People's Armed Police.[lx]

According to German scholar Gunnar Heinsohn, European imperial expansion after 1500 was the result of a male “youth bulge.” Japan’s imperial expansion after 1914 was the result of a similar male youth bulge. During the Cold War, it was male youth-bulge countries—Algeria, El Salvador, and Lebanon—that saw the worst civil wars and revolutions. Heinsohn has also linked the recent rise of Islamist extremism in countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan to an Islamic male youth bulge.[lxi]

Political scientists Valerie Hudson and Andrea den Boer warn that China and India could be the next countries that, as a result of a surplus of men, will see increased violence and extremism.[lxii]

Niall Ferguson, Professor of History at Harvard University, argues that the surplus of men in China will lead to domestic instability or militaristic expansionism, or even imperialism. This is all the more likely with the shrill nationalism already in Asia.[lxiii]



Read more: http://www.allgirlsallowed.org/category/topics/gender-imbalance-china#ixzz1midAe9zW

Notwithstanding the unintended humor of the term "youth bulge," I hope if China and India get up to anything, that they go to war with one another and leave us the hell out of it....

[Zalatix]

43. NOT a good idea. An India-China war could go nuclear.

The whole world would pay the price.

[MADem]

45. Maybe not--particularly if both sides were interested in attrition. nt

[HeiressofBickworth]

29. It's difficult

On the one hand, I don't understand the preference for one gender over another. It's not like India or Asia where a female represents a dowry that a family may not be able to pay whereas a male when he marries brings a dowry to the family (my mantra -- follow the money). So excluding any monetary issue, then what is the issue? Men pounding their chests proclaiming to the world that they can produce a son? Women swooning over their perfect man-child? Both sound like pure vanity to me.

There can be other gender-related issues, however. Some genetic conditions are passed by one gender. I can understand parents not wanting to put a child through a short painful existence.

On the other hand, I'm pro-choice. That means that I believe the woman has the choice of what to do about her reproductive circumstances. Pro-choice means just that -- everyone gets to chose for themselves.

[pnwmom]

30. This is already happening in India, China and other countries

that overwhelmingly prefer boys.

The sex ratios are becoming very skewed, which is causing problems when so many more men reach adulthood.

[Jennicut]

32. I think you just have to accept what nature brings you.

I have two daughters and love it. They play with my dolls that I had as a kid. They are a lot like me when I was little. But I would love boys too. Luckily I have a 2 year old nephew that I can hang out with now and then. Just accept what you have and enjoy your child, all kids have their own personalities anyway.

[juajen]

33. I can't even imagine life without my daughters.

That should be the answer. How many lives would be changed if I could have chosen the sex of my child. Men seem to always want a son, unless they are holding their baby daughter in their arms. My husband adored all of our girls. We really should not make this decision. I know a lot of people who do not even want to know the sex of their child, now that we can do that, and I agree.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. Not to nitpick (okay, nitpicking here) but I thought it was XX and XY...

I worked for a woman who used to say males had a "broken x" chromosome. When I quizzed her on it she explained the "Y" was a "broken X".

Females are XX and males are XY.

[CTyankee]

36. I thought there was a way you could tilt the odds one way or the other, depending on the

timing during a woman's cycle. It seems like an awful lot of planning to me but I hear it can be successful.

I had a boy and then two girls. Suited me just fine, altho my second daughter was born just a tad too soon after her sister...but since we had planned all along to have 3 kids, it was OK.

[Zalatix]

44. The woman you worked for is a sexist, but no one dares criticize that crap.

By her logic, "not broken" means an X chromosome. That would mean everyone would be female.

Who would she blame then???

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. The statement has sexist overtones at the very least...

However, she was a wonderful lady to work for. She was a Vice-Principal and as such was the lead administrator at the Adult School in my school district.

I actually had to think about that statement a few moments before it made sense to me. She said that the very first day she was assigned to our school. We were having our yearly "in-service" training in September and she said it not five minutes after introducing herself to the entire staff. She never made a comment with that kind of flavor (backhanded insult) again in the five years I taught under her.

Though it's a sexist comment, I wasn't offended by it in the least and would go to bat for her this very day as she did many times for me over the years.

I have to laugh at the memory of it all now because I actually had to use paper and a pencil to explain it to our oldest male instructor.

I think that had someone bugged our breakroom, every one of us would have been fired at some point. The things that were said there would make a Sailor blush (I'm the evidence for that remark) and most of the bawdiest remarks were made by the ladies.

[LeftyMom]

39. It's already possible to select sex rather easily.

There's a procedure that involves spinning sperm in a centrifuge, the heavier X chromosome sperm go to one side, the lighter Y sperm go to the other, you pull from one end or the other and Ta Da! you get a boy or a girl.

If you're doing it the old fashioned way you can game the odds somewhat less effectively by timing sex at different parts of the cycle. It has to do with X sperm being hardier and Y sperm being faster- you have sex right at ovulation if you want a boy, days before (so most of the sperm will have died prior to ovulation) if you want a girl.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Why should it be up to me?

Don't I have enough on my plate, without trying to run other peoples' lives?

[renie408]

48. DING DING DING...We have ourselves a winner!!

I don't care. I don't care what they have or how they have them. Its more important that they love them and raise them to be contributing members of society once they have them, as far as I am concerned.

[JHB]

47. If they adopt, yes.

[pipi_k]

50. I do know

people who did exactly that...

they had a bunch of boys and kept on till they had a girl or two.

And then there's Mr Pipi's older brother who gave up at six girls.

My son has two girls and would really like a son, but has decided not to have more just in the hope of having a boy. Two kids is just fine for him, thankyouverymuch.

[slackmaster]

52. I view that question as someone else's moral dilemma. Not my problem.

HTH

[treestar]

56. NO

And why just a couple, why not a single parent?

Sex ratios don't need to be messed up - look at China.

There is a line to draw everywhere - even personal choice should end somewhere.

Why do they care? Good parents just do not care which sex a child is. And usually it's anti-woman. Mostly given the choice, the choice is a boy.

[Iggo]

61. A tentative Yes, but with follow-up questions.

Would they be manipulating the sex of the fetus AFTER the fetus already exists? What if that led to an epidemic of gender disphoria? Would there be an even harder and more popular push to assign rights to a fetus? Where would I stand then? I know where I stand now, but where would I stand then?

I don't like this thought exercise anymore.

[Darth_Kitten]

62. If you have three kids of one gender...

count your blessings and pack the lunches.

[CrispyQ]

65. I'd rather they considered the number of children, not the gender.

7 billion miracles is enough.

[ecstatic]

66. Yes! nt

[shanti]

67. yes, i do

as the mother of four sons, i wanted a daughter sooooooo badly, but it was not to be however, 4 was my limit. if i'd had one of each, i would have stopped there.

[varelse]

68. Yes

[Cleita]

69. Maybe it's okay if there is a need to have a child of an opposite gender to

existing children. I can't think of another good reason though.

[ZombieHorde]

73. Yes. As you mentioned, it could lower our population growth.

I think it is a good idea.

[aaaaaa5a]

74. Its bad to mess with nature to this degree. Just ask China. nt

[avebury]

75. Given the direction this country is heading,

particularly the war on women and contraception, there is no way that I would want to have any daughters. I would really question the quality of life they could expect to live.