Should weight be off limits when discussing politicians?

[apples and oranges]

I don't think it should be: We talk about their hair, their clothes, their wives/husbands. Their weight is not a condition they're born with and can be changed, so it shouldn't be a sacred /off-limits topic. If anything, discussing height should be off limits, as we can't change our height without extremely painful surgery and months of bone stretching. This is just my opinion. What's yours?

[RC]

1. Lets just do away with any negative comments about anyone and be done with it.

[RebelOne]

9. I agree. Weight should not be an issue. n/t

[RC]

18. Apparently you did not see the

I think I should have added also.

This being nice to everyone without exception, is getting out of hand.
What next, can't say anything bad about Republicans/Conservatives because it is a mental condition they are born with? There is plenty of evidence for that. Brain scans can prove such.

[russspeakeasy]

23. Can't we just not vote for the fat bastard ?

[jberryhill]

39. And what's wrong with being a bastard?

[russspeakeasy]

44. Excellent.

[RC]

43. That works.

[movonne]

32. If we are talking about someone running for president....I think it should be

on the table...being overweight is not healthy or an image we should be have for a leader...that is a message that being overweight is o.k. in fact encouraged ...

[jwirr]

55. Even when it is connected to the health of the candidate? And do not tell me in cannot be a health

issue - I have Type 2 Diabetes and have worked with my doctor your years to lose weight.

[RKP5637]

2. Just for one simple example, if a presidential candidate were an obese and very

unhealthy person IMO it should be one of the top priorities. Of course I also feel presidential candidates should be drug tested and also pass a mental stability evaluation of sorts.

[Missy Vixen]

5. President Obama was a smoker when he took office

Therefore, using YOUR argument, nobody should have voted for him, should they?

[RKP5637]

7. Was he unhealthy?

[RKP5637]

15. Good points!

[dmallind]

58. Smoking reduces longevity FAR more than obesity. nt

[RKP5637]

60. I haven't linked to any studies, but I certainly agree.

[Missy Vixen]

75. Considering the fact he evidently smoked since his teens, you may want to consider that. n/t

[Posteritatis]

20. That argument showed up a lot here

I try to forget about primary season on DU...

[ashling]

84. RKP's post said nothing about voting

it said that these things should be considered as open to comment. Remember, its the Republicans - for the most part - who are acting like one issue voters.

[Missy Vixen]

3. Whether or not weight can be changed is your opinion

According to numerous studies and a $33 billion per year diet industry, it's not necessarily fact.

If we can't find enough to highlight the superiority of our candidates and our ideas without attacking someone else's personal appearance, we've already lost.

[SidDithers]

4. Abso-fucking-lutely it should be off limits...nt

Sid

[steve2470]

6. Unless it's discussed strictly within a medical context, it should be

Think about it: If President Obama was above his ideal body weight, we would be outraged if Rove etc brought up his weight.

[pamela]

29. People talked about him getting skinny during the last election.

I remember people joking when he went to a pancake breakfast and took the pancakes to go. Reporters joked about that and everyone was talking about how much weight he was losing. Even folks here were joking about it and saying "eat some pie" and stuff like that. I don't recall anyone getting outraged over it.

[steve2470]

31. You are correct.

I do, however, still think that IF President Obama was morbidly obese (as Governor Christie seems to be), that we would be outraged at mentioning his weight UNLESS it was done in a strictly medical context. Calling President Obama "that gross fat fuck" would cause outrage, I think.

[alphafemale]

80. It was standard with Clinton.

Remember the jogging to Micky D's jokes?

NOTHING is off the table.

[Enrique]

8. what matters is the feelings of someone reading the comment

will the comment ruin some DUer's day?

[mitchtv]

10. As a second class citizen ,and him vetoing any change in that status

I think that any means available is ok with me

[surrealAmerican]

11. I don't really see a context in which it's relevant ...

... but, for the most part, the other things you mentioned don't seem particularly relevant either.


It would be nice if we could stay focused on things like their records or their proposed policies. Gossip is not a good substitute for useful information.

[former9thward]

12. Off limits to whom?

People are going to always use every tool in the arsenal to make attack political opponents. If someone else says the same thing about the people they are supporting they will be full of righteous indignation. It is just how political debate goes.

[RZM]

14. Why parse it like that?

First of all I disagree somewhat on weight. I think some are more predisposed to obesity than others. Either way, it doesn't matter. Either it's ok to make fun of somebody's appearance or it isn't. What I think people need to do is pick a position and stick to it. What's annoying is when they do it all day long and then turn around and get offended when the other side does it. If you do it, you shouldn't utter a peep about anybody else doing it.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to politicians themselves being fair game. They are putting themselves out there and asking to be judged by the voters (not necessarily on their appearance of course). What I find more troubling is the cracks on family members, especially children. Again what I mentioned above applies here. Some of the people making jokes about Santorum's kids (particularly the admittedly unflattering concession speech photo with the doll) would probably not react well to Rush making jokes about the first daughters.

I think it's usually best to pass up the cracks on appearances. If you must use them, be prepared to accept them with a smile from the other side and try to at least make them a little funny. Making an amusing joke about Chris Christie's weight at least is a little fun. Calling him a 'stupid fat fuck' is really just an insult that isn't fun for anybody. And let's try to leave the families out of it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. In modern American society being "fat" - however common - is really hard emotionally on most people

Last edited Sat Feb 18, 2012, 06:34 PM - Edit history (2)

I assume that there are a lot of people here on DU who might be considered "fat". So mentioning weight in pejorative terms is in this situation - on this forum is a form of intentional cruelty and therefore is immoral. At the very least it is insensitive. It is not actually possible to say whether or not a given person can actually help their weight that much. Yes technically they can dramatically reduce their calorie intake, take up an exercise program and readjust their life habits permanently. That approach does produce sustainable results in about 10% of cases. Technically a homosexual person can simply stop having homosexual relations and start having heterosexual relations. No doubt there are those would say they have done so. But the realities of human sexuality like the realities of other aspects of the human condition like their weight are simply more complex than that.

[RKP5637]

24. lol - I think you meant "reduce their calorie intake," not "reduce their salary intake."

Although for politicians, a typo like that might be good, both might be requirements!

[Douglas Carpenter]

41. thanks. I guess that was a Forbesian slip

[pipi_k]

17. Isn't the REAL question here

more along the lines, "Should weight be off limits when discussing Republican politicians?"

that's really it, isn't it?


Because if it's OK to say, "Wow...Chris Christie looks like a fat blob", then it should also be OK to say the same thing about any Democrat, right?

Michelle Bachmann had "batshit crazy eyes", according to some. Say that same thing about a woman Democrat, and all hell would break loose.

I agree with the person above me who pointed out that as soon as it becomes necessary to pick on someone's physical or mental differences, then the debate is over. You don't make your candidate better by pointing out the other person's weight or facial features or anything that doesn't have a thing to do with the issues.

And no...it's not always something that can be changed. When I was growing up, I was very very thin. Nothing I ate made me fatter. Nothing.

It only changed when I hit my 30s and my metabolism slowed down.

Now I'm overweight and in case people don't know this, a whole lot of other things besides FOOD can cause weight gain.

[elleng]

19. Nothing should be 'off limits,' imo,

but people/voters can judge on their own relevancy of various issues/matters. HOW issues are addressed often relates to civilityof those discussing.

[customerserviceguy]

21. I don't think it is any different to disparage

the amount of a person's skin from putting down the color of that skin. Michael Jackson showed us that skin color was a changeable attribute, too. So is marital status, just ask Noot.

Why not deal pretty much solely with what they say and what they do?

[leeroysphitz]

22. Why should anything be off limits?

If I don't like the color of a candidate's socks and decide to base my vote on it that is my choice.

[bluerum]

25. Afraid I agree. Smoking. Drinking. Philandering. Any type of excess.

If they campaign on austerity they should walk the talk.

[FarCenter]

26. They are celebrities, public figures. Anything is fair game.

If they can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Criticism of his weight doesn't seem to bother Governor Christie at all.

[seeviewonder]

27. If we resort to shaming him because of his weight

then we are no better than him and the other right wingnuts. They bash LGBT folks day in and day out so it would be against liberal principles to bash him because of his genes as well. Just my two cents, but it is the right who seems to want to bash entire groups of people, not us.

[snagglepuss]

28. No it should not be off limits especially when the person is obese.

As a person who has has weight issues, including times in my life when I was obese, I think it is wrong to avoid referring to a public figure's obesity. Not commenting on it normalizes the condition. It's like super-size portions of food. Huge portion sizes became the norm because few people ever brought this change to the public's attention. The fact that kids now think supersize portions are normal is a serious health problem.

[Missy Vixen]

35. You're joking, aren't you?

>Not commenting on it normalizes the condition.<

Congratulations on "normalizing" bullying, shaming and bigotry.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. +1

[snagglepuss]

47. Not joking. I am 5'5" and at my heaviest was 229 lbs, that is size 3X

so I am well aware of the stigma weight has in this society. The solution is not to treat obesity as a deformity was once treated and politely look away. Merely making reference to someone's size is not bullying.

[sibelian]

51. It might not be bullying but

it's almost certainly *irrelevant*.

I can't understand why any criticism of a politician beyond their policy should be taken as anything other than *gossip*. Why is a fat guy going to run the country less effectively than a thin guy?

[Missy Vixen]

52. And your point would be?

>Merely making reference to someone's size is not bullying.<

You claimed that "failing to take notice" was endorsing/accepting the "problem".

You're not making reference to someone else's size. You're allowing the poison of bullying/shaming/bigotry in our society to continue. The person in question already knows they're fat. So nice of you to point it out to them.

[dmallind]

59. "gross fat fuck" is not MERELY referring to someone's size is it now?

[sibelian]

49. +2

[Warren Stupidity]

30. Not when it is that vile fat fuck Christie.

[KamaAina]

57. Chris or Jeff?

a/k/a Rush the OxyMoron.

[Bluerthanblue]

33. i think you make a wrong assumption when you

claim that weight is not a 'condition they're born with and can't be changed'. For the vast majority of obese people altering their weight in a meaningful way, and maintaining that for any period of time isn't something that is do-able. For those that do manage to succeed, life is a constant battle against their body's tendency to store fat.
I cannot imagine that being morbidly obese is something that anyone would freely 'choose' to be. To say it's a choice is more than unfair imo. It is easy for those who aren't facing the societial stigma that others are to minimize the suffering that is inflicted on people who are seen as being unacceptable. That doesn't make it ok.

As for it being 'off-limits' to discuss? imo talking about how someone 'is' rather than what they -as an individual- believe, do, or advocate is something I try hard not to do. It's bigotry and prejudice.

[ZombieHorde]

34. I am assuming your question is about our ethics.

Posting fat jokes on DU is against my ethics.

[sarcasmo]

36. No!

[southernyankeebelle]

38. Being an obese person here I think I can honestly say I can relate to the governor.

I think EVERY PERSON who wants to be president should go through a health examine. Look at all the serious medical problems we didn't know about JFK. By the way just because some are heavy doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't eat healthy. I am obese but I don't eat fried foods. I don't have high blood pressure. I do have health issues. My problem is I don't exercise. I hate it. But I will tell you my weight has never interferred with my job. I always worked harder to prove myself on the job because I never wanted people to say I was lazy. I had my own cloths made and always looked nice and even had my hair done. Yep I weighed alot. But in side of me I was like everyoneelse trying to make a living in this crazy world. I am no different then the skinny person and a regular sized person. Deep down we all want to be liked for ourselves. The governor is a fathead and not because of his size.

[amuse bouche]

40. Overweight is one thing but morbidly obese is quite another

Someone like Crisco will never be president because he can not clean his own rear end

Physics says it is physically impossible. And shouldn't that be at least the minimum standard for a president?

[left is right]

42. did politician ever say anything disparaging about

fat poor people such as “their weight says that they can’t be too impoverished. They are evidently eating well on taxpayer assistant?” It is none of my business, otherwise.

[cherokeeprogressive]

45. How REFRESHING would it be if...

...we debated the policies a politician promotes rather than their appearance, that of their wives, whether or not we think they're repressed sexually, off-color jokes made by people close to them, or a whole host of other meaningless, petty, and mean bullshit?

The discourse on this topic has become so hateful and hurtful that I'm leaning toward giving up on the subject altogether and avoiding any political news/blogs/gossip/punditry whatsoever and just going to the voting booth and voting a straight Dem ticket.

[Bluerthanblue]

46. yes it sure would be-

and each one of us can choose to make it that way.

We can be the kind of people we claim to be- or at least try to be.



(wish I could recommend your reply)

[sibelian]

48. Yes, and, actually, I think hair, clothes and wives and husbands should be off limits too...

... but mostly from the perspective of me being exasperated with such stuff being portrayed as "politics"...

It's mainly a personal stance of mine, I think - can't stand the kind of petty stuff that people swallow as being important about celebrities in general. I'm resigned to the fact that there are far too many out there who *do* want to gossip about this stuff for the situation to change...

It would be *great* if people would focus on actual policy for a change. :/

[karynnj]

50. Not off limits but juvenile, silly and nonprodtive

It is pretty obvious that someone grossly overweight is grossly overweight. It says nothing about their qualification to lead or the values they have.

The fact is that, if my most admired politician, John Kerry, put on a hundred pounds, he would still be the same person whose positions, intelligence and integrity I admire. On the other hand, if Governor Christie found a means to lose how ever much weight he would need to lose to be consider fit, I would still dislike him for the bullying and the positions he has taken.

It really seems like middle school to attack someone for being fat. It will not get anyone to change their position on him if they have a positve one - they know he is fat.

[varelse]

53. I don't find their weight to be relevant to their politics

but then, same goes for their hair and clothes. I tend to stay out of threads where irrelevant topics such as these are discussed.

However, mudslinging, ad hominem attacks, and hatemongering have a long standing traditional role in politics, so it makes little sense to put them off limits in a political forum, however pointless and irrational the resulting discussions might be.

Have at it, I say. I've got 'trash thread' handy if I need it

[Texasgal]

54. Weight along with

clothing, hair, make-up etc. does not seem relative to politics.

Just my opinion.

[me b zola]

56. IMO when we are discussing a politicians appearence, we're not discussing the things that matter

I don't care about how much a politian weighs, if they are bald, or are just plain ugly. I don't care. I care about how they do their job. I care who is funding them. I care about if they are acting in our best interest or their own.

I don't care that Christy is fat, or that what's his face looks like a turtle. I do care that both are rat bastards who seem to be motivated by something other then the general welfare of the people.

[Cleita]

61. I'd say the only thing that should be off limits when discussing

politicians are their underaged children and perhaps relatives who aren't responsible for what they say or do. Other than that everything should be up for discussion if there is a reason to question that person's ability to do a demanding job. I also think we should question their ability to think, or brainpower as well as other physical problems that might handicap their ability to get the job done. Now, I'm not talking about all physical problems. Other Presidents have done an outstanding job with physical disabilities like FDR and JFK, but as a whole I think we should look at these things and discuss them. I mean I don't think Dick Cheney should have ever been VP considering his heart condition.

[Dreamer Tatum]

62. only if they're Democrats nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

63. No,it should be discussed if they are morbidly obese.

And the health problems associated will affect their ability to do the job.

[renie408]

64. So, my kid's band director used to scream at them constantly about being disciplined. He weighed

450 lbs if he weighed an ounce. He rode a golf cart that looked like it was about to tip over from the band room door to the practice area. A distance of MAYBE 300 feet. He would sit and watch them practice and drink milkshakes and chips. And would make the kids do push ups when they made mistakes.

It used to drive me crazy. He was so OBVIOUSLY undisciplined himself that I could not believe the hypocrisy of him screaming at those kids to be more disciplined.

So, yeah, I think obesity is an open subject. It indicates something about a person's ability to control themselves.

[Logical]

66. Like smoking? n-t

[renie408]

67. Why not. Yeah, I think Obama smoking is stupid. And yeah, it is something that people

should be able to talk about. Am I going to vote for a Republican because he smokes? No. But it does make me think he is less chill than he acts.

As for being obese, health issues are a legitimate topic for discussion among candidates. We talk about their age, why not about the things that are likely to impact their ability to do the job? The President of the United States is the ultimate role model. If he or she is obese, wouldn't that be something we could LOGICALLY discuss?

Besides, how fucking ironic would it be for America to have an obese President??

[Missy Vixen]

74. Thanks for letting us all know exactly who you are

>It indicates something about a person's ability to control themselves.<

Is that so?

[renie408]

76. Yes, that's me. The horrible person who thinks that you get fat because you eat more calories

than you burn. Yes, I know that there are things that can make it harder and easier to lose weight. I should know. I have been trying to lose the same 40 pounds for ten years.

I guess I am just a victim. I have a disease. It's my genetics. It's the stress. I can't help it. It isn't my fault. It's fine to be obese. It's a lifestyle choice. I am happy this way.

Yes, you know who I am now. Thank god you identified what an awful person I am. Thank god.

[Missy Vixen]

85. Thanks for reinforcing your bigotry again for everyone to see n/t

[renie408]

86. No problem :)

[Logical]

65. Any appearance should be off limits. It is hurtful and shallow.

[renie408]

68. That's not terribly logical.

As stated in the OP, the elements of appearance which were not by choice shouldn't be important. But the elements of appearance which ARE the result of choices made by the person should be. How a person chooses to present themselves to the world says something about them. Being obese really DOES say something about a person.

Listen, I am easily forty pounds overweight. I wish I weren't. And I know what my weight says about me: I don't deal with stress properly, so I eat it. I really need to learn better stress management techniques so that I would stop self-medicating with cheese burgers.

Why wouldn't something like that be of interest in the person you are choosing to be the leader of the free world?

[Logical]

69. Most people here use it as an insult and not as a health issue....

Like calling Christie a BIG FAT LOSER. It is a insult and not a concern.

Like using race or sexual orientation to hurt someone.

[renie408]

70. Oh, in that context then, no. n/t

[Mira]

71. Honestly, we do elect them to be around to serve, don't we?

Not til the predictable heart attack causes the country to go into a tailspin. Morbid obesity is worth a mention.
(Obama was not a chain smoker. Plus he quit. The positive effects of not smoking start in 7 days)

While I'm at it, here is a nice little picture.

[madinmaryland]

72. When the sanctimonious shit ends on DU, then yes. Maybe we should talk about this that

spent eight years on DU...



We even had DU'ers naming themselves "chimp...."

[Incitatus]

73. If you feel making such personal attacks helps your argument, go ahead.

I know it can be hard for some people to resist. It's the easiest way to attack someone because it doesn't require much thought.

[alphafemale]

77. Are you talking about Christie?

Too fat to waddle 100 yards from a helicopter to the bleachers to watch his sons little league game and needed a limo for a hundred yards, Christie?

Of course it's an issue.

Of course it's not off limits.

Everything is ON the table.

I'm fucking sick of being nice and the better person and losing elections.

[quaker bill]

78. I would not say off limits, just pointless

If the politician is a good representative, I could not care less about his/her body profile.

If a politician is a jerk, skinny as a rail does not improve it.

[lunatica]

79. And who's going to enforce any 'off limits' rules?

Frankly I think grown ups will express themselves any way they please. If anyone doesn't like what they say, then they can express themselves too.

We aren't talking about free speech here as much as talking about being attacked for practicing free speech. Both are legit.

[Snake Alchemist]

81. everyone knows that fat people are evil. nt

[magical thyme]

82. health is a valid issue

If the candidates weight is such that it impacts health, it merits discussion and consideration. This is true whether it is an obesity or anorexia/bulemia issue.

[alphafemale]

83. It turned out to be a health issue with Clinton.

Thankfully he was not in office at the time. And he has seemed to have slimmed down since.