General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRising Gas Prices Give G.O.P. Issue to Attack Obama
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/us/politics/high-gas-prices-give-gop-issue-to-attack-obama.htmlWASHINGTON Rising gasoline prices, trumpeted in foot-tall numbers on street corners across the country, are causing concern among advisers to President Obama that a budding sense of economic optimism could be undermined just as he heads into the general election.
White House officials are preparing for Republicans to use consumer angst about the cost of oil and gas to condemn his energy programs and buttress their argument that his economic policies are not working.
In a closed-door meeting last week, Speaker John A. Boehner instructed fellow Republicans to embrace the gas-pump anger they find among their constituents when they return to their districts for the Presidents Day recess.
This debate is a debate we want to have, Mr. Boehner told his conference on Wednesday, according to a Republican aide who was present. It was reported this week that well soon see $4-a-gallon gas prices. Maybe higher. Certainly, this summer will see the highest gas prices in years. Your constituents saw those reports, and theyll be talking about it.
warrior1
(12,325 posts)people are using less gas. Blame is on the oil companies.
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)...the cost of developing new fields has gone way up. The percentage of oil on the market which could be called "cheap oil" - known fields, conventionally extracted and refined - is going down every year, while the new oil on the market is more expensive to find, develop and produce every year.
Cost should drive people to embrace alternative fuels, not alternative political representatives.
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)Is $6 corn driving farm land prices, or are land prices driving $6 corn ? Speculators turn to commodities when they need shelter.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)...as the whole agricultural process, including transport to market, is fuel dependent.
FarLeftFist
(6,161 posts)bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)If you look at the Tupi field in Brazil, for example - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupi_oil_field - which is a large deepwater field, this is expected to buoy the economy of Brazil for decades, but it's also projected to cost $100 billion to "develop". They are also investing another $100 billion developing other fields, an amount that exceeds the military budgets of every nation but our own. That includes buying or leasing the rigs, drilling and finishing the wells, laying all the pipelines and industrial infrastructure needed to handle the oil. Much of those costs come years before any significant oil is sold, and the time-value of the money involved also factors into what price will be necessary to be profitable.
In the case of the Tupi field, its essentially state-owned, so its easier in some ways. In the US there would be dozens of corporations involved in the various aspects, each dedicated to taking their share of profit along the way. But whether a project works or not eventually depends on the price of oil, and predictions as to the demand for oil versus the supply. For many years now, and for all predictions forward, there are no cheap alternatives to oil and insufficient sources of oil left to adequately meet demand, and so some security knowing that prices will remain high.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Chinese oil demand has more than doubled in the past 10 years. Which is one of the factors keeping oil prices higher; demand is still at or near record levels.
BOHICA12
(471 posts)The Administration can do nothing at this point to but buckle up for the ride.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)So why don't they go after those nasty wall street speculators instead of pointing their finger. .
BOHICA12
(471 posts)Even if he had a magic wand and a cooperative House.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)with mobilizing the strategic national reserves--calling their bluff on "summer shortages"?
SG
B Calm
(28,762 posts)to release any national reserves to combat high pump prices. They have been brain washed into believing what the top 1% tell them to believe that it will leave our country vulnerable if we're attacked. Of course it's all bull shit, but these people live in a bubble.
I like to remind them that one of our biggest exports is gasolene.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)to protect the US economy from financial shock?
Ecomomic threats are every bit as real as military ones.
SG
B Calm
(28,762 posts)bubble people won't listen though, they're to busy pointing their shit stained finger and sitting on their hemorrhoid asses to take any kind of personal responsibility or stand.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)...which have much more to do with how the world economy is doing than anything else, given that production rates are pretty much maxed out everywhere.
There have always been myopic analyses about how some refinery is idled to keep prices high, or how some field could be developed and flood the market with product, lowering prices - and things like that. But overall the scale of the global market is too large to bear manipulation, and there are far too many players willing to take each other's profit and market share for any effective manipulation.
In any case, the only thing that will steer people toward alternatives to fossil fuels is the high price of gas. More people realize that now, but the repugs are gambling that everyone will fall for "The High Price of Gas!" anger, as they have so often in the past.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)"High Price of Gas!" horse until it flops down and dies.
SG
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Repukes hate to talk about that.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)....but the costs of exploration, development and refining new oil on the market have been rising steadily for years.
As examples, we imported massive amounts of oil from Mexico's Cantarell field, which, geologically, was unique and easy to develop. The oil was easy to extract and cheap to refine, Mexico made a bundle from it and transformed their economy, and the boom-times here of the 80's and 90's were partly driven by it as well. In the last few years production from that super-giant field has gone into rapid decline, and nothing similar has been found to replace it.
A good example of what that oil is being replaced by is the Alberta Tar Sands. That started out as forest, had to be stripped down to this , laboriously extracted heavy oil, refined at greater cost, and the environmental destruction repaired at even greater cost. For the whole operation to be economical, oil has to be around $90 a barrel. The demand for oil is such that people will pay that much, and as there are no cheaper alternatives, the price will remain high.
If demand were half what it is, then perhaps it could be met by what is left of the "cheap and easy oil", and the old $40 per barrel would suffice. But that's not the world we live in anymore, and the high cost of developing and refining the oil that is currently coming onto the market is driving the high price of the end-products.
In any case, the conclusion is the same - we need alternatives.
But if you think that the game is rigged somehow, and if the market were handled differently we could have cheap gas and all the abundance and comfort that goes with it, then the "alternative" you are likely to look for is an alternative politician - who can never deliver on his cheap-oil promises, because a physical reality prevents it.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)it. A hell of a lot. Betting on oil futures drives a great deal of this cost, not all, but much. I agree that extraction costs have been rising too, as well as costs associated with the Middle East oil market to which we remain so bound. But yes, what it comes down to is our crazy addiction to oil and the political connection to oil. That corruption is integral to the slowness of developing wind, solar, and biomass to get off the oil. We can get off the oil, and darn well need to. But it will take more public/private partnership and investment and standing up to the oil companies. And that means getting rid of the RePukelicans at the polls, overturning Citizens United, and cleaning out the oil lobbyists. Aint gonna happen overnight, but we can start this November.
onethatcares
(16,169 posts)when I intervened with the fact that refined fuel exports are up 42 percent over last year, the subject got changed
and it's fallen to the wayside. The same folks that shout drill baby drill and let's build the keystone pipeline now ''
decided that prices weren't going to go up anyway.
farking numbnutz.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)I'm not surprised the subject got changed when facts were brought in. These people cannot deal with the truth!!
Response to steve2470 (Original post)
old man 76 This message was self-deleted by its author.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He isn't an oil producer or an oil company, and he doesn't trade futures in oil.
What nonsense. This is the oil industry trying to pull its weight to elect ridiculous, unattractive Republican candidates.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)That's not the case.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)ATTACK THE REPUBLICAN LOVE AFFAIR WITH THE OIL COMPANIES AND HOW THOSE CORRUPT ASSHOLE REFUCKUPLICANS CRAWL THROUGH BLIZZARDS TO LOWER THEIR TAXES AND GIVE THEM SUBSIDIES AMIDST RECORD PROFITS. MAKE THIS DEBATE THE REFUCKUPLICANS' WORST GOD DAMNED NIGHTMARE.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Demonaut
(8,918 posts)onethatcares
(16,169 posts)zippola