USC Student: Police Said I Wasn't Raped Because He Didn't Orgasm

[The Straight Story]

The University of Southern California is facing a federal investigation for alleged failures by school officials and campus police to prosecute rape.

In response to a Title IX complaint filed in May, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights launched the inquiry on June 26, although complainants only received notice over the weekend that the investigation had begun. A group of 13 students, along with several other unnamed students, claim they suffered from extensive failures on the part of USC administrators and the Department of Public Safety in responding to reports of sexual violence on campus.

OCR program manager Charles R. Love confirmed in a letter to USC student Tucker Reed, obtained by The Huffington Post, that the agency is investigating allegations the university failed to prosecute and adjudicate claims of sexual violence and to respond promptly to complaints of harassment on campus. Such failures would be violations of Title IX, a federal gender equality law.

Jody Shipper, USC Title IX coordinator and executive director of the Office of Equity and Diversity, said the university "remains vigilant in addressing any issues promptly and fully as they arise," and has been reviewing its policies to ensure they comply with federal law.

...

One student involved in the USC complaint, who asked to remain anonymous, said a DPS detective told her the campus police determined that no rape occurred in her case because her alleged assailant did not orgasm, and that therefore they had decided not to refer the case to the Los Angeles Police Department.

"Because he stopped, it was not rape," she was told, according to the complaint. "Even though his penis penetrated your vagina, because he stopped, it was not a crime."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/usc-rape-investigation_n_3607954.html

[malaise]

1. WTF??? n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

2. H-0-L-Y SHIT!

Oh, I can't WAIT to see student reaction to this.

[justiceischeap]

3. The campus police need to be schooled on what rape actually is

and then I think they need a new rule that states they don't get to make decisions that effect the school's reputation. If a woman (or man) claims they are raped, the police should be called immediately, taking it out of the hands of the campus police. It reminds me of the militaries recent (or consistent depending how you look at it) failure in successfully bringing justice to rape victims.

[datasuspect]

4. oh, they know what rape is

but they're fucking pigs. they make light about stuff like that.

they make jokes about victims.

fuck the police.

[justiceischeap]

6. Not all police are like this

I know it's popular to hate all cops around here (although the Democratic party used to be the party that supported the police) but I've known a few cops in my life and they are good people trying to do good work. I've also come across a few cops that are not good people and don't do good work--just like people in all walks of life.

That said, I still stand by my statement that any campus rapes should be reported by campus police to local police and be taken out of the decision making process. I'm cynical enough to believe their jobs are more about protecting the reputation of the university than protecting the students that attend.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

12. Exceptions, not the rule.

[Dash87]

13. I've never met one that wasn't a jerk

They all turn corrupt. It's only a matter of time. Most of them are bullies that have been given a free pass to hurt people now. Most are sociopaths and no better than criminals.

While the police are a necessary evil, you never want to actually interact with a police officer unless absolutely necessary.

[RVN VET]

14. Not all cops, surely, but THAT cop definitely

I agree. Do not condemn the entire class for the piggish behavior of a few. The problem with swinish police actions, however, is that it gets me so goddamned mad that I really have to take a breath and remind myself of exactly what you said: just like any walk of life, a lot of saints mixed among the sinners.

In my County last winter an officer on his way to serve a warrant on a perp saw an automobile aflame at the side of the road. The accident had occurred literally seconds before. He stopped his car, radioing for assistance, and actually smashed the car windshield to get the trapped and semi-conscious driver out seconds before the care exploded. He suffered second degree burns himself, but stayed on the scene to administer what aid he could -- because that was his job.

I'm not keeping score because I can't. Acts of heroism by the police go unreported. Their atrocities make headlines.

IMHO

[Heidi]

37. Cops in general _used to_ roughly approximate progressive values: "protect and serve"

I hope you'll buttonhole the good cops that you know and encourage them to drum out the "not good" cops. If the good cops are indeed the majority as you imply, they can do that--if they want to do it.

[awoke_in_2003]

65. 90% give the rest a bad name. nt

[Fawke Em]

35. Uh... most campus police ARE police unless

they are called "security."

And, they are usually trained by the same academies as the state police.

These assholes were just being assholes.

[justiceischeap]

49. But they also have a vested interest in campus politics

if enrollment goes down because that particular school is known as a rape campus, then they're out of a job.

[Fawke Em]

70. True... until some little reporter comes along...

...and makes 'em understand they're getting blamed for federal policy and sues and wins!


Hey, been there, done that, have free parking.

[Blue_Tires]

56. The cops know what rape is

At many universities, there's just an unspoken mandate from higher-ups that the "published" crime rate be nice and tiny lest any potential students get scared away...

Case in point:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/21/ecsu-chancellor-willie-gilchrist_n_3308484.html

[sakabatou]

5. *twitch* WTF?!

[Lee-Lee]

7. WTF? This reinforces my opinion that there shouldn't be campus police forces

A campus police force where the chief directly reports to the administration will always be ripe for this kind of crap. Because every school lives and dies by its image, and anything that harms that image will be pushed under the rug and hidden as much as possible.

You will never end this until campus police forces are part of the local city or county it is located in, instead of a function of the school administration.

[exboyfil]

28. I agree

but even in a small town with a big campus you will still see this effect (look at how investigators handled Penn State). At a minimum no potential felony should be handled by campus police.

One problem you could have with a campus deciding not to offer a police force - Can they be taxed to pay for the extra police needed to cover the campus (ie student tuition, state funding that currently goes to pay for the campus police)?

[Lee-Lee]

33. In most cases it would require a change to state law

So as part of that require the school to cover the costs.

And at the same time, extend that to all the small private schools who now use local police and don't pay anything toward the services they use.

[Igel]

38. It would also complicate some things.

The local police would then have jurisdiction over the campus and would patrol it.

If you have some sort of activity, then the local police would be called in. That might be a guest speaker. It might be a student protest.

I've seen student protests where the administration just told the campus police to back off--there was no doubt that the local police would have shut it down, and that would have been bad. But the owners of the property decided that protecting it wasn't worth the hassle of the bad PR and ill will, that the vandalism would be slight, and called off their employees.

I've also been on committees that looked at costs and police availability. With campus police it wasn't a problem. On Monday we get word of an event on Friday. No prob. Rushed, but manageable. The police chief was on the same campus committee. If the cost was too high, we could work out something with student volunteers to help out. If we just had a liaison and he had to contact the people in charge of scheduling employees and paying overtime, I doubt it could have been done, and "student volunteers" wouldn't have been up to the vice-chancellor.

It also wouldn't solve all the problems--you'd still need some campus police to enforce campus rules. When an 18-year-old kid is caught lugging alcohol down the hall, it was all handled in-house. The police would be notified and do nothing. Yes, it's a crime. But it's also "home" and nobody wants bad-ass police being a kind of Gestapo. The local police wouldn't be held to the same standard, and if notified and they did nothing it would look bad and if they did something it would look bad. Lots of "bad" things happen on campus that we like having hushed up.

There are benefits. There are drawbacks.

There's also a lack of detail in the story. Got insufficient information, got insufficient basis for an opinion.

[Thinkingabout]

8. I support police but I don't support stupid people who say stupid things. Apparently

Our education system is failing miserably or students are failing to learn at a miserable rate. This has to get corrected, people running for offices and others in authority needs to be schooled on the birds and bees. Mt goodness, you would expect this from the uncivilized world but never in the US.

[greiner3]

22. Great Strawman Argument;

You switched from "I support police but I don't support stupid people who say stupid things."

To;"Our education system is failing miserably or students are failing to learn at a miserable rate."

WTF?

Are you saying this woman needed to be educated in order NOT to be raped?

WTF??????????



















I don't see a smilie for a troll but I think most DU'ers get the point!

[Thinkingabout]

52. If you need an example of saying stupid things, try the cop who said there was not a rape in this

case. How about stupid things said by Todd Akin, do you think he had the proper information or was his statement stupid. Do you think the cop in this case received a good education about the definition of rape. Do you think Todd Akin needs a refresher course in human biology?

BTW, I am not a troll.

[Mariana]

72. Our education system

does not exist for the purpose of teaching police officers how to determine whether or not a particular crime took place when they answer a call, or for teaching them the specific legal definitions of rape in their particular jurisdictions. They're supposed to get specialized training for all that.

Don't be so quick to assume this happened because the cop was ignorant. I suspect this cop knew perfectly well what the definition of rape is, and that this was, indeed, a rape. I think it's much more likely that he just didn't want to deal with this particular incidence of it for one reason or another, and thought he could bullshit this young lady into letting it go. Could have been nothing but just plain laziness - maybe he simply didn't want to get off his ass, put down his donut, and do his fucking job.

[Thinkingabout]

73. What do you think happened in the Tadd Akin case?

[Mariana]

74. Akin is ignorant on purpose.

Most likely he was taught biology correctly, when he went to school. Our education system can't be held responsible for someone who, decades after he left school, has either forgotten what he learned, or has deliberately chosen to disbelieve what he was taught.

[Thinkingabout]

75. I was not trying to ding the school system but pointing out there is a lack of

sex education whether the person such as Akin or the cop in this rape case ignored the correct information or chose to do so. It is more of the continuous attacks on women by men always blaming the women.

[Orrex]

9. Well, I'm glad that's settled

[Nanjing to Seoul]

10. Wow. Just fucking wow. Women, how does it feel to rate lower than that? No war on women?

We have a fucked up view of rape in this country.

[sulphurdunn]

11. Can "orgasm"

be used as a verb?

[RVN VET]

15. Transitive or intransitive?

[sulphurdunn]

54. Beats me.

[Vattel]

16. yes

[CanonRay]

18. Do they teach these cops anything beyond use of the taser?

I mean, basic law and procedures? Principals of investigation?

[90-percent]

45. Based on this taser death statistic,they're poorly trained on tasering

http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2009/05/taser-related-deaths-in-united-states.html

538 taser induced deaths from 2001 to April 2013 is completely unacceptable in my world view.

Unless this is merely considered an unfortunate by product of maintaining order in our totalitarian fascist police state country of ours?

-90% Jimmy

[niyad]

19. this was NOT a good way to start my morning. the war on women continues apace, even in

the halls of academe. sadly, this is not even surprising.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

20. Fucking brainless assholes. nt

[historylovr]

21. Unbelievable.

And yet, so very believable.

[niyad]

23. and it gets worse

Reed, the lead complainant, said USC dismissed her claim that her ex-boyfriend had raped her, despite her providing audio recordings of him admitting to it. At one point, Reed said, a USC official told her the goal was to offer an "educative" process, not to "punish" the assailant.

"The problems are rampant within every department, pretty much every service on campus," Reed told HuffPost, adding, "There is an overwhelming disregard for women and students going through obvious trauma, and they traumatized them further."

One student involved in the USC complaint, who asked to remain anonymous, said a DPS detective told her the campus police determined that no rape occurred in her case because her alleged assailant did not orgasm, and that therefore they had decided not to refer the case to the Los Angeles Police Department.

"Because he stopped, it was not rape," she was told, according to the complaint. "Even though his penis penetrated your vagina, because he stopped, it was not a crime."

A student judicial affairs official cited a similar reason to that student for dismissing the case, meaning that her alleged assailant would not face any court proceeding.

When another student went to the DPS to report a sexual assault at a fraternity event, according to the complaint, an officer told her and a friend, also a sexual assault survivor who had accompanied her, that women should not "go out, get drunk and expect not to get raped."

[MountainMama]

55. OMG....

should not "go out, get drunk and expect not to get raped."

Reading stuff like that makes me glad I don't have any daughters, and makes me sad for my nieces.

[suffragette]

71. The official and the DPS are the ones who need to be educated

And punished.

Just vile.

[MineralMan]

24. Kampus Kops - One small step up from mall cops.

All rapes should be immediately reported to the regular police. Immediately.

[LWolf]

47. I agree. Call the real cops. nt

[RoccoR5955]

25. What a huge load of bovine fecal matter that is!

The Campus PooLice, as well.

WTF is wrong with these people? Do they have to be violated themselves before they actually realize what it is?

This world is quickly going down the crapper FAST!

[dbackjon]

26. So detective

If a man rapes you, but doesn't orgasm, it's all good, right?

Somebody could hold you down, and shove a nightstick up your ass, and since the nightstick can't orgasm, no crime is ever committed, right?

[Just Saying]

27. Sad isn't it?

Campus police are a joke. The real police need to be involved when real crimes happen on campus. And I agree with whoever said these "cops" are more concerned with the reputation of their university than the well being of their students.

I've had some recent experience with a man who takes advantage of drunk and /or drugged women and brags about it. His male friends seem to think it's the women's fault for "putting themselves in that position." I wonder if they'd feel the same if they were the victims?

[Sunlei]

29. Department of Justice, Definition of Rape for the behind the times Texas law.

..... The new definition of rape is: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” The definition is used by the FBI to collect information from local law enforcement agencies about reported rapes. ........


http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-ag-018.html


looks like the woman has a case against the state school.

btw, who will be the first woman forced by a state to accept a vag. ultrasound to sue the state for rape?

[reflection]

30. Let's see if the DPS detective

feels the same way if he is ever penetrated by a man who does not orgasm. Or is penetrated anally by an object, which by definition cannot orgasm. He will rethink that ridiculous opinion.

[90-percent]

31. My understanding

"Because he stopped, it was not rape," she was told, according to the complaint. "Even though his penis penetrated your vagina, because he stopped, it was not a crime."

A male appendage in full arousal is emitting tiny amounts of sperm before orgasm. Even if I'm wrong, forcibly entering any body cavity with any appendage is legally rape. And it is possible to get pregnant from your non-orgasmic rapist, although kinda remote.

I'm always aghast at the acceptance of rape inside our medieval prisons as an extra punishment for being a bad person that deserves imprisonment. But, if anybody deserved such a fate it would be these campus cops. Let them get gang raped in the prison shower and then be told they weren't raped because the guy f***ing them up the *** didn't orgasm! Well, never mind then!

-90% Jimmy

[Igel]

41. I'll go with the TX law, thanks.

"forcibly entering any body cavity with any appendage is legally rape".

Nope. Fingers and tongues are appendages.

You just said a wet willy is rape. Ew.

Taking a cheek scraping to collect DNA against somebody's will (perhaps under court order or state law) is rape.

Moving, without consent, to French kissing is, well, rape.

We won't even talk about the rape of having a drowning victim's mouth cleared without the possibility of giving consent. "Sorry, judge, I had to rape the baby to administer mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. I confess that I placed my index finger, an appendange, inside the child's mouth without consent of the baby or his parent or guardian."

No, let's keep the law involving something genital, not just fingers and mouths or even tongues and mouths.

[90-percent]

51. I'm not well educated on state by state rape laws

So forcibly inserting some appendages into some body orifices would not then be rape. Let me know the legal violations of another's person and I'll go to the local shopping mall and have my way with arbitrary victims.

Well then, as the Frank Zappa song "Illinois Enema Bandit" has said (narrated by Don Pardo, no less) there is no law in Illinois that makes it illegal to give your victims an enema when you're burglarizing them, either!

-90% Jimmy

PS - I'm being facetious, not attacking. I do respect your posts

[Borchkins]

32. WoW

Un-flipping-believable, but all too common. War on Women continues.
B

[whttevrr]

34. {:o(

[TreasonousBastard]

36. The first problem, as other have said here, is to stop calling them "police"...

they are campus security.

Police, as we know it here work for the state-- that is, the people. Police do not work for a company, school, or any other entity which would give them divided loyalties. Making them feel better with the upgrade from "security" to "police" is just wrong.

We have enough trouble with real cops-- don't add to it giving additional powers to mall cops. When a felony is reported it goes straight to the real cops. If there are still problems with the real cops, there are better avenues to deal deal with them.

On edit...

The schmuck who made this call should have his ass handed to him, along with everyone up the line who approved it.

[former9thward]

39. They are sworn police with the power to arrest.

Security can detain you until police arrive but not arrest you. University police are in fact police officers and considered so by the state.

[TreasonousBastard]

44. Harrumph. Seems you're right in most cases...

although standards vary from state to state, training seems to be fairly uniform and often conducted by state police academies.

While the primary argument is that some campuses are so large the local police can't handle it so a campus force is necessary, that still doesn't address the problem of divided loyalties-- if your loyalty is to who signs the paycheck, campus police owe allegiance to the school, not so much the law. How many felony complaints are there that they can't be handled by an independent force?

[former9thward]

48. I agree with your points.

I live a few blocks away from the biggest university in the U.S. so I see these issues come up. Although in the OP case I am not sure why the victim did not go to the LA police if she was not satisfied with the USC response. The LA police have legal jurisdiction everywhere in LA including the USC campus.

[L0oniX]

40. DPS detective = future GOP candidate.

[duffyduff]

42. "Orgasm" is a noun, NOT a verb

Sorry, but that moron Shere Hite started that shit of turning a noun into a verb in her idiotic Hite Report, and some editor fell asleep on the job not making her rewrite it.

Now people all over the place use this as a verb, and it isn't.

I won't even read an article whose writer can't even use proper English.

[Trillo]

43. The cops are as close to the "the law" as most folks get

They come with a badge of official authority. We're trained since gradeschool that "they're our friends" and they're brought into those schools to convince us of that. There's a well known school-to-prison pipeline, there are also cushy jobs in academia for retired police, what I shall call the police-to-school pipeline.

It's not really surprising the University of Southern California would teach such a lesson through their badged spokesperson. This is part of the way that our schools mess us up. Is it intentional? If it is, of course they would deny it.

When we get messed up in the head, the MSM advice over decades was to get some counseling or see a prescription writer. Those jobs are not performed for free, nor are they done by non-college graduates.

I'm pretty sure there's a conflict of interest therein. It seems schools have 'an interest' in jobs for their top graduates. What better way is there to accomplish that than to screw with the minds of the majority on purpose, and deny it when caught?

[GlashFordan]

46. Is rape prosecutable with no evidence?

Just curious, guy invites girl to room and they watch tv. No sex no nothing. She goes to the police and claims to be raped ( for whatever motive)

He said/ she said... No evidence, is rape prosecutable?

[The Straight Story]

50. Yes it is and I have been involved personally in such a case

It was a date rape (the term does not really fit in the case I was involved in but is the closest to it). There was no evidence (at the time - which is what I am guessing you are referring to).

A friend of mine was raped by her boyfriend and she stopped him before he was 'done'. I knew this guy also (we were all friends). She contacted the cops, as did I, and I got him to admit over the phone (and on tape) that he did it and was sorry.

He pled it down and did some time (6 months or so). I will be bluntly honest, I didn't trust this girl as she was a habitual liar on just about everything (she had a pill addiction) so when she told me I was skeptical (they had been seeing each other and had sex many times, and yes I know that because we talked a lot). But I didn't dismiss it. I wanted proof myself and after talking to the detective we both agreed that since he most trusted me I would reach out to him.

When I was a deputy there were many such cases where at first it was just one person's word against the other but a case was built up from a plethora of later evidence (I was not involved directly in the cases but handled the inmates and such - they tend to talk at times).

When I did security for the courthouse back in the day prosecutors often would throw out court transcripts (for a variety of reasons, like they printed too many copies) and I would read them and sometimes sit in on trials before my shift started. You can learn a lot about what evidence is (and is not).

Can you prosecute something with no evidence? Not really - but you can bring charges or at least start an inquiry. The prosecutor has a duty to examine the charges and make a determination if there is something to go on. The police can, and will, arrest people based on charges with no direct evidence (this goes on daily obviously.....)

[niyad]

59. I wondered how long before the false rape claim post would show up.

[salin]

64. Far before charges are raised, an investigation has to occur.

if the conversation ends because the witness states that a certain point in the alleged attack occured, suggests that is the legal bar to even consider rape.

We need much more information. If the police stopped the investigation at the point of the initial interview because the interviewee said that orgasm didn't occur - then if the law doesn't state that the bar for rape is orgasm, but penetration, then there is a problem.

Otherwise the rule of law includes forcible penetration as long as ejaculation during penetration is not rape and is legally permissible (which suggests the concern of the law is not about rape, but about possible culpability for pregnancy.)

The law should protect against rape (forcible penetration), and against false accusation, though the stats on the latter are much smaller than the stats per the former.

[avaistheone1]

53. Disgusting.

on both the part of the rapist and the police. That's raped twice.

[gollygee]

57. Rape culture

At least they're being investigated. Sigh.

[noiretextatique]

58. atheletics

probably has something to do with this.

[niyad]

60. wondered about that

[niyad]

62. a comment at the end of the raw story coverage:

Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:14 PM - Edit history (1)

can anyone tell me whether this statement is true or not?

Avatar
cessnadriver • 7 hours ago

It's USC, Jake.

A student told me during the days that Petey was in charge the football team was known on campus as "the rapists".

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/23/student-i-was-victimized-by-uscs-mishandling-of-more-than-100-rape-cases/

[noiretextatique]

67. my late bil played football for USC in the mid-70's

and yes: it is true.

[niyad]

69. that is beyond disgusting, and explains so much about this whole situation.

[Liberal_in_LA]

61. kick

[Socal31]

63. Oh...my.....lord.

This is The Onion, right? Please tell me this is not true.

[flvegan]

66. If true? Ruin Their fucking Life.

Okay, shitburger. Your call, your future deposition. Sue them 'til they squeal.

[alp227]

68. Because LEGITIMATE rape shuts down the woman's orgasm thingies, RIGHT?

So said "Dr." Todd Akin. Is he the USC Campus Police chief now? Wow. You just CAN'T make up this special bigoted kind of STUPID anymore.