First they called them the Loony Left...

[last1standing]

and I did not speak up because I was not a loony.

Then they called them the Professional Left,
and I did not speak up because I was not a professional.

Then they called them Fucking Retards,
and I did not speak up because I was not retarded.

Then they called them the Greenwald Lefties,
and I did not speak up because I was not Glenn Greenwald.

Then they called us liberals,
and we were all too afraid to speak out and admit it.
(apologies to Martin Niemöller)

The plan is always the same, divide and conquer. Exclude one discreet community after another until no one dares to speak up.



I know, "GODWIN'S LAW! HE BROKE GODWIN'S LAW!!!111!!!!!"

[MannyGoldstein]

1. You've forgotten a few names there

I won't repeat them, because the mere mention of at least one - which refers to having carnal knowledge of a rat - got a thread of mine locked, after I'd been called said name repeatedly by Third Wayers.

[last1standing]

2. I'm sure I've forgotten several.

I'm mostly having fun at this point. There comes a point when the diversionary tactics and smug insults become rather funny, or at least ripe for humor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I had that happen in the morning

I raised the issue and I am the problem, even with all those folks on the iggy list I don't even acknowledge exist.

[sabrina 1]

28. Yes, that one has appeared a lot around DU lately. Did the actual user of the epithet suffer any

consequences? It must be part of the strategy to attack the Left with. I've seen several times lately.

[Go Vols]

3. #1

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
At Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:58 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

First they called them the Loony Left...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023327108

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"Fucking Retards"

No.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:04 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: not sure where hes going,but leave
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: For all the reasons one might alert (none of which ultimately pass muster), you alerted on the basis of him quoting what Rahm Emanuel actually called liberals?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: A point worth discussing but no need to hide it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[last1standing]

4. LOL! I love Juror #5's comment.

"For all the reasons one might alert (none of which ultimately pass muster), you alerted on the basis of him quoting what Rahm Emanuel actually called liberals?"

I guess trying to squash a thread by alerting two words out of context didn't work.

Thanks to all the jurors.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Except that isn't what Emanuel called liberals.

But I have found that many on the left are fast and loose with facts on occasion too.

[last1standing]

8. "Rahm Apologizes for Privately Calling Liberal Activists 'Retarded'"

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/02/rahm-apologizes-for-privately-calling-liberal-activists-retarded/

I agree I didn't use the exact word but I don't think my lack of an "ed" at the end changed any real meanings.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. A politcially forced apology for something he didn't say.

Did he say "fucking retarded?" Yes, he sure did. Was it wrong? IMO, it was, but he didn't call "liberal activists" that word, it was their idea that was the subject of the insult. If I say your post is stupid, it isn't the same as saying you are stupid.

[last1standing]

12. We apparently have different views on what he meant.

I took it as an insult directed at those who didn't support his views as did many, many others.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. We have different views because you are seeing one thing, and I don't.

It was of course an insult. If he had said "fucking stupid," it would have been an insult. The difference is he didn't say it to a person(s), he said it about an idea. I usually see this type of parsing of statements by the right.

ETA: It is obvious that some see this alert as support for Emanuel (see how some make something out of thin air/speculation), but I am betting who ever made the alert was pissed that the word "retarded" was used, and nothing more. They may not have understood your context (which is why had I been on the jury I wouldn't have hidden it either).

[last1standing]

18. I've had nearly five years to change my opinion of his insult and haven't yet.

I'm not likely to do so now. It was wrong and meant to exclude activists from the mainstream of the party, which it did. That is the point of my thread so regardless of who is right, my post stands on the merits.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. I am not trying to change your opinion.

Sure, it is obvious the fact of the matter is irrelevant to you, but that's on you. I have no problem with the fact you used it (see my above edit), though I don't agree with you (about the statement), I understand your intent, so it is irrelevant in that way because it feeds in to the point in which you were trying to make.

[last1standing]

26. It's all good.

What would a political forum be without some disagreements? So long as we can try to keep them respectful everybody becomes richer for the insights.

[Behind the Aegis]

30. I think what he said, whether directed at someone or not, was disgusting.

I was just commenting on the origin of this particular "myth." Of course, the irony is that the derogatory statement is being used to attack others here. Really says something.

See, I don't agree with your use of the poem, but that is for a personal reason, but I understand why it is used (not just by you). You were making a point, and I have no problem with it because I don't see it is a distasteful reason. I have seen this poem used for some pretty sick things; your use doesn't even remotely come into that sphere.

[last1standing]

33. We absolutely agree that the comment was disgusting.

Maybe after being called so many other names by the administration and its supporters I've come to expect the insults be directed straight at me instead of slightly masked.

Just like I think we both remember the insult of Rick Warren standing at the inaugural podium all too well. No, the attack wasn't directly spoken against us, but we got the meaning whether Obama intended it or not.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. Exactly! The Warren thing is an excellent analogy!

We may not agree on the actual content (against persons vs. ideas), but we both recognize the intent. Sometimes, it is the intent that is more detrimental, which is why I didn't take issue with your use of the word, or the poem, just your response to the juror's comments.

[last1standing]

37. Ah! I had no idea you were talking about my response to the juror post.

I can't guarantee it but I believe whoever alerted wanted to get my thread removed and used "fucking retards" as a pretext. I was merely trying to say that the alerter didn't even explain why the term was offensive. There was no context to his/her complaint which seemed to indicate that they wanted the jurors to think I had called someone that instead of repeating an insult directed at my community (activists).

I may not have made that point clearly and may not be doing so now. Regardless, I think we both agree on the core of this conversation.

[Behind the Aegis]

44. But wasn't this fun!?

Yeah, I was more taken with the juror's comment, and when you commented, I moved on it. If you had written about Russia and said "first they came for the fags." I would understand what you were trying to convey, but someone else might take offense to it, not realizing that is the type of rhetoric coming from Russia, along with arresting gay people for being gay (which just happened this week).

And yes, we do agree on the core.

[last1standing]

52. It was fun.

Definitely more enjoyable than slinging insults like grade school children. I like being able to talk through a problem and find a solution. That's what I though being a progressive was all about.

[Dragonfli]

22. As did anyone that wasn't as "fucking retarded" as he would paint us.

He was clear in the intent of his meaning, the rest is "semantic game playing" IMO to try to shield his politically very incorrect and derogatory statements about those of us in the party that are not "Reagan Democrats"

[ronnie624]

29. Your post is stupid. n/t

[jazzimov]

87. Did you even read the article that you posted?

He apologized to the disabled community for using the word "retarded". The article also describes wht REALLY happened:

"Some attendees said they were planning to air ads attacking conservative Democrats who were balking at Mr. Obama's health-care overhaul. 'F—ing retarded,' Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items."

So, what he called "f-cking retarded" was NOT Liberals, but the IDEA of ATTACKING other Democrats.

Stop spreading lies - that's a Karl Rove tactic.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

89. ^^^^^^THIS, FOLKS!!!^^^^^^ The TRUTH!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

90. >>>>>>>>>>READ THE POST I REPLIED TO<<<<<<<<<<

[last1standing]

96. We've discussed your point in great detail elsewhere in this thread.

I disagree with your interpretation and am a little disgusted by your immediate attack without bothering to try to communicate respectfully first. That is a Karl Rove tactic as well. The difference between us is that I'm not trying to spread lies but you are trying to attack Democrats with smears.

[whatchamacallit]

25. "On the left"

What are you, on the right?

[RandiFan1290]

70. Funny to see how easily they let it slip out

So comfortable trashing the left all over the internet. Now they don't even have to curb their language when they get back to DU.

[sabrina 1]

32. What Emmanuel actually said was even worse, imo, because it showed what the leadership of the party

really thinks about Progressive ideals. He said that the IDEAS of the left were 'retarded'. He got such a negative reaction that he apologized, for using the word 'retarded', but he never, nor did anyone else, explained why he views Democratic ideas as 'retarded' nor did he ever apologize.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. But you are actually using the source correctly.

Personally, I agree. I thought his remarks were disgusting and classless. I see you also realize he actually apologized for the use of the word and not it's intention; something many on the other side miss. It was a non-apology apology ("Gee, sorry you were offended.&quot Now, as for intention, I don't think he was talking about democratic ideas, but liberal ideas within the Democratic Party.

[sabrina 1]

36. Yes, you are correct regarding 'liberals' being the target of his remark.

I wonder why they despise liberal ideas so much, most of the greatest accompishments of the Dem Party came because of liberals.

Sad, but Liberals are no longer welcome in this Party, I'm not sure what can be done about that.

[last1standing]

39. We're welcome in the party.

We just have to sit quietly at the back of the room and not cause trouble.

[sabrina 1]

48. Only at election time.

[last1standing]

50. Exactly.

n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

42. Because the centrists have taken over. It really is that simple!

I am open to a variety of ideas, but some of the things I see coming from the Democratic Party demonstrate that it is becoming more and more centrist. The problem is some that are trying to redirect it are too far to the left, similar to the problem the GOP is facing. There has to be a happy medium or we will really see the two parties become so similar, they will be impossible to tell apart.

[sabrina 1]

51. Yes, that is true. The only way is to focus completely on getting good progressive dems elected

to Congress. But the money now in politics always wins when there is a real Democrat in the race. We have to overcome that somehow.

[Behind the Aegis]

53. It ALWAYS comes down to money!

Of course, there also has to be changes in the benches throughout the country. I am seeing a bit of hope, but when it comes to finances, it is the same old shit!

[Maedhros]

55. "The problem is some that are trying to redirect it are too far to the left..."

Your description of the fight to resist the rightward slant as "redirecting" is an interesting choice of words.

As the Republican Party continues to fracture over hardline religionists vs. hardline corporationists, I suspect that a lot of those "Reagan Democrats" will come home and similar fiscal-conservative-social-nothorriblyandirrevocablystunted Republicans will switch over. The Democratic Party will morph into the Republican Party, and the Republican Party will be a rump Southern Party.

[Behind the Aegis]

56. Actually, what I think may eventually happen is a break in both parties.

We will eventually see a multi-party system, which I personally would be cool with. Just because there are extremists on the right, don't think they don't exist on the left.

[truebluegreen]

104. "too far to the left"

Um, no. Even finding a decent liberal in the Democratic Party is difficult, and liberals are the central safety valve between left and right, or should be. FDR was a liberal, his policies saved capitalism. He knew that if more Americans weren't given a slice of the pie, extremism would result, most likely of the right since the left was already demonized. But now his policies are too far left.

On economic matters the Democratic Party hierarchy are by no stretch "centrist".

[Egalitarian Thug]

100. ALL of the greatest accomplishment in social advancement for over a 1,000 years

have come from so-called liberals, not the least of which was the founding of this nation.

Conservatism, or as it's much more accurately described, authoritarianism, is the Sisyphean boulder we must constantly push, to absolutely no purpose whatsoever, into the future.

[rhett o rick]

102. I see the movement to disenfranchise the left as a deliberate move

to woo the right of center voters. Obama needed the left to win in 2008. He courted the left with his campaign promises. The naively, desperate left (including myself) bought it. Then after the election (Rick Warren) the Democratic Party machine declared war on the left. They had the brilliant idea that if they could win the votes of the right of center, they would squeeze out the Republicans. Just think for every vote they could get from the right of center counted twice. Not only was it a vote for Obama it was a vote that the REpublican didnt get. So it wasnt enough to just distance themselves from the left, they had to convince the right of center that they were in no way associated with the left. They knew that the "lesser of evils" theory would get them most of the left votes anywayz.
Besides it turns out Obama's ideology is right of center anywayz.

We must fight to take back control of the Democratic Party.

[woo me with science]

59. Really. People "on the left" are dishonest?

You have observed this from the right?

[Behind the Aegis]

60. People on the left can't be dishonest?

That's your observation?

[woo me with science]

61. I haven't seen it as a major problem, no.

Not the ones who are *actually* on the left. We tend to be very open and consistent about our views.

It's the ones who claim to be on the left but then ardently defend and work for right-wing policies when a Democrat is in office who impress me with their dishonesty.

Why are you calling out "the left" here? You haven't been quite clear about that.

[Behind the Aegis]

62. Because it has been people on the left who misrepresented the quote.

"I haven't seen it as a major problem, no."

Fascinating. I didn't say or imply it was a "major problem." But, your very statement indicates the possibility exists, and as you are allegedly on the left, does this mean you aren't really and are making this "observation" from the "right?"

[woo me with science]

65. No, you wrote a very short post accusing "many" on the left

of being dishonest. In fact, that was the entire content of your post.

You certainly seemed to think that it was important and significant, given that that's all you offered in response.

[Behind the Aegis]

66. No, that isn't what I wrote.

But, I am not surprised. Being "fast and loose" is not the same as being "dishonest" though it certainly can be. If you had bothered to read my exchange with last1standing or sabrina1, well, I guess that really wouldn't matter, now would it?

[woo me with science]

67. The inevitable squirming and parsing of words.

Signs of that familiar old Third Way problem.

It's the problem that trips up the corporate messaging, every single time. It's just an impossible task to credibly pretend to share the same political values and goals as Democrats, while simultaneously being tasked to publicly smear and discredit them.

In some ways, the increasingly brazen "Fuck you, 99 percent" messages coming from the top of the party should be a relief to those dispensing the talking points. Honesty is always easier than this tricky dissembling that has been required in the messaging for such a long time. I have, in fact, seen more honesty here lately than ever before, including brazen advocacy of cutting Social Security, ugly smears of "the left" like the one you just attempted, and even the most telling slip of the mask: outright derision directed toward the poor and the struggling in this country.

But honesty isn't *completely* allowed just yet. The insults may slip in, but as long as votes and some illusion of respect for those who provide them are still needed, there remains some real reluctance to stand behind the insults when they are challenged. Hence, the absurd backtracking, denial, and parsing of words like we see right here.

[Behind the Aegis]

68. No true Scotsman...predicatble.

If you don't self-identify, then you must be "one of them!" :shudder:

The party is in trouble and has been for some time, but that isn't going to change with a snap of the fingers. Nor are claims that anyone who is a part of the party is involved in "ugly smears" for stating factual information. But, you are correct, "honesty isn't *completely* allowed just yet" because if that honesty includes painful observations, then it must be "the other" responsible. You give, and provide in your own post, the truth behind that statement. More than a few on the left (yes, I did it just because I could), fallaciously think "facts have a liberal bias." No, they don't. Facts are facts. They are neither liberal nor conservative. How they are used determines the bias, as seen in your post. Your poor attempts to paint me as something I am not is an excellent example of bias gone wild.

[last1standing]

5. Also, I'm not really going anywhere. I just wanted to point out basic exclusionary tactics.

by using various insults, this administration and it's supporters have tried to break off those of us who speak up from the mainstream of the party. As more and more advocates are pushed to the fringes (as they've tried to do with Cornell West, Daniel Ellsberg, Glenn Greenwald, Howard Dean, and countless others) there are fewer advocates to speak up when they attack the next community that stands in their way.

This is not what our party should be doing.

[Dragonfli]

11. O for christs sake, everyone knows the context, some Rahm admirer doesn't like the fucking truth

Rahm is the asshole that brought this to the conversation, is there really a Rahm fan so enamored of him and his efforts in Chicago that they think an alert can erase Rahms past idiotic statements?

[leveymg]

7. Nicely rephrased. Can't believe some Center-Right asshole alerted on that.

They seem to be particularly sensitive to sound and movement tonight.

[Dragonfli]

9. .

[last1standing]

13. ..

[quinnox]

14. I hope they do stick with the "Greenwald left" meme

I take it as a compliment. I guess I'm a "fan boy" of Greenwald.

[last1standing]

24. I'd definitely prefer to be a Greenwald leftie than a Cheney Democrat.

[quinnox]

46. I like the "Cheney Democrats" thing, it is catchy

and does seem to fit these kind of lock-stepping folk in a witty way, I will have to start using it.

[last1standing]

49. I figure if we're linked with various people because of one similar viewpoint they should be as well

Since Cheney says that there's no problem with the NSA's domestic spying and these people agree they must be Cheney Democrats based on their own logic.

[quinnox]

54. indeed

[sabrina 1]

38. Me too, I wonder why they even thought that would be an insult? I guess the Third Way

doesn't know much about the Left. No surprise there. I guess I'm a fan girl also, or a racist, or as I was actually told here yesterday 'from the fringe, a Republican fan-girl'. I wondered, publicly but got no response, if all the Dems who agree with me on Surveillance, like Ron Wyden eg, are 'Republican fan boys from the fringes'??

These 'insults' are growing lamer and lamer as they use them all up and fail so spectacularly each time.

This party isn't overly fond of Progressives anymore, is it?

[quinnox]

43. for sure, they don't understand a thing about what progressives/liberals think about

certain topics, such as NSA spying, and a host of other things. They show their ignorance on a daily basis, that is for sure.

[Dragonfli]

45. Sabrina, you being called "a Republican fan-girl" made me spit up my tea when I read that

Me being me (a bit rude at times) would have had fun tearing apart the poster and the comment had I seen it and been in the typing mood.

Be proud, you have won a major award Repug girl...

[Scurrilous]

17. "Then they called them Fucking Retards.."

<snip>

"Last August, Emanuel "showed up at a weekly strategy session featuring liberal groups and White House aides," the Journal's Peter Wallsten reported lastTuesday."Some attendees said they were planning to air ads attacking conservative Democrats who were balking at Mr. Obama's health-care overhaul. 'F—ing retarded,' Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/02/rahm-apologizes-for-privately-calling-liberal-activists-retarded/


At least try and get the quote right..

[last1standing]

20. You're a day late and a dollar short.

We've already been discussing this slightly upthread.

[Dragonfli]

47. and three cents shy of a wooden nickel /nt

[struggle4progress]

19. No, we aren't planning to send you to concentration camps. We WILL warn you that you are marching

senselessly into the swamps. Having tried, without success, to discourage you from that, we WILL get out of your way and ALLOW you to continue your march. BUT we will also try to discourage OTHERS from following you there, and for those willing to listen we'll point out HIGHER roads that do not end in quagmires

[last1standing]

21. Glad you appreciated my little poem.

[Egalitarian Thug]

75. Perhaps if your 3rd-way faith had ever been proven right, or even not disastrously

wrong, you might have some credibility in warning others about anything. Unfortunately that is not the case.

[struggle4progress]

79. Nope, still not sendin ya to a concentration camp, no matter how much you troll

by misrepresenting my views in the hopes of gettin me to yelp

[Egalitarian Thug]

85. It was your bleating that prompted the response in the first place.

Try being right, for a change.

[liberal_at_heart]

40. I will never back down even when it means going against the democratic party. I am a liberal.

[last1standing]

41. I'm with you there.

There are a few of us still speaking up but it get's harder and harder.

[NealK]

57. K&R

Great post.

[SidDithers]

58. Awwww...

Sid

[last1standing]

64. Thanks for the kick, Sid!

You're always there for support.

[Ford_Prefect]

63. The New Deal is still one of the defining moments of Liberal Democratic thinking.

Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2013, 04:51 AM - Edit history (1)

Along with the Great Society initiatives it represents common sense extension of the Bill Of Rights. The Constitution says all Americans are entitled, not that some are more equal than others. America only works if we all go forward and Democracy is not only for those who can afford to rent it.

The class conscious Neo-Liberals who want to harvest votes and money to further their twisted version of Democratic rule while tossing progressives and their institutions under the bus are only slightly less xenophobic than the Randians who want all of government run over. It is a difference of degrees of class separation, not intention.

The Clowns who tell us to sit down and stop rocking the boat do not see that it is the Ocean we are responding to. They don't mind if a few of us drown while they ride topside. After all in their view sacrifice ought to be done by one of the designated victims rather than one of the chosen elite.

They seem far too willing to invite the conflict implied by Malcolm X:

"We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being,
to be respected as a human being,
to be given the rights of a human being in this society,
on this earth, in this day,
which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary."

They arrogantly court the whirlwind with no regard for the consequences to us all.

[NoPasaran]

69. Jesus called

He needs the cross back

[last1standing]

72. What's the matter?

A little poem hurt your feelings?

Lol! Thanks for the kick!

[HangOnKids]

83. Oh Did Jezus Get Tired Of Loaning It To You? n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

71. Excellent!

[JoeyT]

73. I wish there were some

database of all the pithy names some people have thought up to call liberals.

The same people who scream and cry anytime anyone mentions personality cults.

[MNBrewer]

74. You can't break "Godwin's Law".

Any more than you can break the Law of Gravity.

[railsback]

76. Why be ashamed of who you are

unless you're totally uncomfortable in your own skin?

[last1standing]

77. Did I mention shame? I don't think I did. Maybe you are projecting a bit?

I don't know and I'm sure you won't admit it if you are but I know I would be ashamed to be on the other side of this discussion. Gladly, I'm not.

[railsback]

78. If it didn't perturb you

you wouldn't have posted.

[last1standing]

81. That has nothing to do with your first comment.

Having trouble keeping track of your smears and insults? Maybe you need a day planner.

[railsback]

84. Like I said...

[last1standing]

86. LOL! That's the point. It's nothing like you said...

There is a vast difference between getting under someone's skin and just saying random things that make no sense. I'm afraid you've veered toward the latter.

[railsback]

91. Honestly, if you're comfortable with who you are

why the Hell would you give a shit what other people say? It just seethes of insecurity.

[last1standing]

93. Then we're both guilty of that, aren't we?

Let's face it, we're just going around in circles for the fun of it. We know we're not getting anywhere. And there's really nothing wrong with that. Let's enjoy the challenge.

[treestar]

80. No they called you the ones who could dish it but not take it

How you can possibly talk about being called silly names in debates on the internet in 21st century America in the same post as Niemoller is just appalling. No you are not being persecuted. I know there is a victim complex here. Everyone, Obama, the media, the corporations, the centrists, the CIA, the NSA and everyone else are persecuting you.

Except not. You're not in jail, you're not stopped from saying anything and you can continue to talk , be a victim and complain and do nothing till the cows come home.

[last1standing]

82. I can't take it but you have to come in here and complain.

I could mention kettles and pots but I think you know already...

[Pretzel_Warrior]

88. DLC Democrats is another one people attack

there is nothing wrong with being a DLC Democrat.

[Egalitarian Thug]

92. Nothing wrong but the name, they used to be called republicans.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

94. I think there is a lot of meaningful policy difference separating DLC and Republicans

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ciae29.html?kaid=86&subid=194&contentid=3775

[Egalitarian Thug]

97. Oh yes, dozens of bad republican ideas that they abandoned when they became the

party of stupid, crazy people.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

98. so that's all you've got? When did Republicans as a party champion gay rights?

I know there are some things I find repugnant about DLC stances and would never support, but I also don't agree with Democrats who are so into guns they make it their central theme of posting here.

We are a big tent party or should be. I don't think I should be against the very far left of the party just because we disagree. I just think we need to keep the debate going and raise issues about what works and what doesn't work in trying to make this a more perfect union.

[Egalitarian Thug]

99. You've pointed out the theater of the whole clusterfuck right here.

Our "Big Tent" party now shelters both the left and the right, thus ensuring that it stands for nothing and will accomplish the same.

There were many republicans, some in office, that supported equality for everyone. They wouldn't fight for their beliefs and consequently were moved out of the republican party by the stupid crazy people. Now, they call themselves Democrats and fight against any significant, sane steps proposed to actually running the nation. They think people should be equal, but cling to their right-wing delusions such as that the moron barely capable of driving a tractor in a straight line is qualified to decide what the course of the nation is.

Do I have to list all of the idiocy that is the foundation for the DLC platform?

Gay marriage is wonderful and was delayed far too long, but in the end, it only effects some portion of a tiny minority and has no effect whatsoever on the issues that significantly effect fundamental problems the whole nation faces. The people that matter never cared about gay marriage one way or the other, except insofar as it kept the easily distracted from watching what they were doing that did matter.

[Cleita]

101. +1000

[last1standing]

95. I have no problem with DLC Democrats but you might get an argument from others.

I don't agree with much of the DLC platform but I respect honest differences in opinion. I even respect honest republicans on the rare occasion I find one.

[Niceguy1]

103. that is nice to hear.

Too many require a purity test to be considered a democrat.

[bvar22]

105. I DO have a problem with DLC "Democrats,

....because De-Regulation, Union Busting Free Trade, Privatization of the Commons,
Lower Corporate Taxes, elimination of Government Run Social Programs (like Social Security, and Mandates to BUY Health Insurance from Corporations....

are all BAD Republican Economic Ideas,
and have absolutely NO BUSINESS inside the Working Class Party of FDR & LBJ.

"The DLC champions privatization of Social Security as a centerpiece of its program for the new century. Or in DLC speak, as Will Marshall, one of its founders, puts it, "using choice and competition to advance...the big social insurance programs like Social Security and Medicare."

http://www.thenation.com/article/dlc-comes-manhattan#

In the 80s, if I wanted those things I would have voted for a Republican.
The REASON I'm a DEMOCRAT is because I OPPOSE those policies,
but NOW, thanks to the DLC and truckloads of Corporate Money,
I don't even get a choice anymore.

I DESPISE the DLC more than I despise Republicans.
At least Republicans are more honest about WHO they are.


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]




You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[last1standing]

106. As I said, I'm very much against many DLC policies including the ones you mentioned.

But I won't hate the person who supports them unless they try to use underhanded tactics and lies to gain the power to enact them. I'd much rather try to show how these policies don't work and I don't see how I can do that if I'm not communicating with the person who believes in them.