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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBolivia forgives European countries for air space incident
(Reuters) - Bolivian President Evo Morales on Wednesday forgave France, Spain, Italy and Portugal for denying their air space to his presidential jet early this month, closing an incident that had riled leftist governments around Latin America.
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Morales and other South American leftist leaders Rafael Correa of Ecuador, Cristina Fernandez of Argentina and Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela said pressure from Washington was behind the air space denial. They said the incident had put Morales' life at risk and showed a neo-colonialist attitude on the part of the European countries involved.
The European countries later apologized to Bolivia. Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina and Uruguay, which make up the Mercosur trade bloc, joined Bolivia in recalling their ambassadors from the four countries for consultations over the incident.
"Although we are not fully satisfied, we accept the apologies of the four countries as a first step, because we want to continue relationships of respect among our countries," Morales told reporters in Bolivia's capital, La Paz.
"Accordingly, we have agreed to send our ambassadors back," Morales added.
- more -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/24/usa-security-snowden-bolivia-idUSL1N0FU0TS20130724
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)The guacamole market has been saved!!
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Guacamole is from Mexico. But I know, it's hard to tell all those brown people apart.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)going to attempt to hurl insults in their direction.
mitchtv
(17,718 posts)Baboso norte americano
railsback
(1,881 posts)Latin American countries lashing out, thumping their chests, the United States was burning bridges fast, with no light at the end of the tunnel.
Take it easy, I says. This is just machismo. Watch.
Sorry, Ed.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)AllINeedIsCoffee
(772 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)what is going on outside their own framework. This, eg, is very bad for the US.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)BAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Those Brown people are way smarter than your obvious opinion of them. Which they are aware of. It's fun watching this thread though.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Are you now saying that the incident happened? When for days you told us that it was all hype designed to make President Obama look bad? You see my problem here.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"I can never keep up with you ProSense
Are you now saying that the incident happened? When for days you told us that it was all hype designed to make President Obama look bad? You see my problem here. "
...your mission is hard because of your creative imagination.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023177352#post3
I could continue. At first, your argument was that the airspace issue was due to a rumor started by whom. Not the violations of the Vienna Conventions, or the violations of the ICAO agreements. Then when that fell by the wayside, then you went off on rants about how those nations were all guilty of hyperbole.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023163029
Shall I continue more? Now, all is well because Bolivia accepted an apology for an incident you said didn't happen, was perfectly legal, was absolutely justified, and now all is forgiven.
I can't keep up with you ProSense. You change directions faster than a hummingbird.
ON EDIT: If you want to post that PM I sent you before now would be a great time.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)does any of that have to do with this BS claim:
"When for days you told us that it was all hype designed to make President Obama look bad?"
Again, your creative imagination is getting the best of you. Hyperbole and questions about the source of the rumor have nothing to do with your nonsensical claim.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)"Was the rumor an intentional act by the U.S. government?
Was it the U.S. government acting on bad information?
Was it another party trying to embarrass the U.S. government? "
William769
(55,147 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Was the rumor an intentional act by the U.S. government?
Was it the U.S. government acting on bad information?
Was it another party trying to embarrass the U.S. government? "
...you think a series of questions about a rumor that was clearly a rumor and wanting to know the source is the same as:
"When for days you told us that it was all hype designed to make President Obama look bad? You see my problem here."
It was a rumor. The U.S. could have been the source. Fact: It was still a rumor.
I suspect that this is going to turn into another attempted deflection because some don't like the information in the OP.
Carry on.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)countries have forgiven EUROPEAN puppets. That is all, and in doing so have made the very clear point that they believe they merely dangling on the strings of the US. So what do you see here that is in any way beneficial to the US? I am failing to see the cause of the prejudicial remarks and the dozens of little laughing roly poly guys.
This is what is called 'playing chess' and we are losing. Do you not see that,, really?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"And if you read your own link, you will see that Morales and the rest of the Latin American countries have forgiven EUROPEAN puppets. That is all, and in doing so have made the very clear point that they believe they merely dangling on the strings of the US. So what do you see here that is in any way beneficial to the US? I am failing to see the cause of the prejudicial remarks and the dozens of little laughing roly poly guys."
...maybe you could stop pretending I didn't "read" the OP, stop responding to straw men (I said nothing about anything being " beneficial to the US" , and then take up your issues with "prejudicial remarks" with those who made them.
"This is what is called 'playing chess' and we are losing. Do you not see that,, really?"
OK.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Mail Message
At Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:56 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I can never keep up with you ProSense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3330171
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
He's making up shit, baiting Prosense.
She never said it didn't happen --- that was someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:02 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If its true that Prosense never said what Savannahmann claims, then the alerter, Prosense, or any fan boi can explain that in the thread. This post is not hide worthy.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Igel
(35,350 posts)Now, was the point that was made the point Bolivia intended to be made?
Can't answer it.
When a kid makes a valid claim in defending his rights he feels vindicated when he gets the response he wants and often earns a degree of respect. When a toddler throws a tantrum and the parents' friends give him the response he wants, he, too, feels vindicated but it doesn't mean he's garnered any respect.
What's the attitude behind the Europeans' diplomatese? Dunno.
Which is the "true point" that was made? The question is pointless.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)a broken fuel gauge?
Igel
(35,350 posts)mitchtv
(17,718 posts)apologized for what? nothing happened , remember? what a mess .
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)The countries didn't agree with Pres. Morales about what happened. Morales had it as a conspiracy but it was mostly incompetence. Italy and Portugal sent explanatory notes, not apologies.
What's important to see here is that the left press and the sloppy press altered this to say that Italy and Portugal apologized. They did not and it's on record as a part of the OAS meeting. The left/questionable press also altered the story to have the US forcing Morales to land in Austria. That was never proven.
There was such a rush to make this a conspiracy but no one had solid sources. That's still the case.
This was a game and it produced a result, Morales is more popular at home and Latin America feels more united against the great Imperio en El Norte. Fine, but now I'll know to disbelieve them on other issues.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Ask yourself: if this exact same sequence of events had happened while Shrub was president, what would your reaction have been?
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)because it's unsettling to have lies passing for news.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)If this exact same set of facts has presented themselves while Bush was President, you would have had the same reaction? you would have believed the same things? You would have made hundreds of posts on the topic saying it was overblown, the Bush Administration wasn't proved to be involved, Bolivia was just trying to embarrass Bush, etc. etc.?
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)I am fluent in Spanish so I followed many sources and saw the distortion.
It really zapped any support I felt for the left in Latin America. They really acted like ninnies but granted they were getting a lot of confusing information. However, when the facts came in they needed to back off. This is basically what we see here with this "forgiveness".
By the way the culprit was never found and the USA rejected the OAS vote. That's because they didn't orchestrate and Maduro and Morales either got it wrong or lied about this supposed CIA agent. If this person who it was said was even calling control towers ever existed, someone would have outed him.
And so you know I have years of being a Latin Americanist and supporting left governments there.
I was for instance very happy that Cuba didn't jump on this bullshit except as to be polite. Others bought it hook, line and sinker and did the rah rah.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)OK, I can understand that you didn't like process and didn't like how some people characterized the event. But if these facts had occurred when Bush was president you would have the same view of the incident as you do now?
And if you don't think the US orchestrated it, who do you think did? Who had the pull to get France, Italy, Spain, and Portugal to do what they did?
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)I don't think it was orchestrated because Italy and Portugal didn't close their airspace, this is what they always maintained. Portugal let them land but didn't agree to refuel due to strikes.
THUS those two countries didn't apologize no matter what you read.
Spain had some wacko right wing guy show up, but didn't ever say they blocked airspace. Their apology was over him.
France had some confusion about two planes, incompetence there and who knows.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)For me, given one set of facts, I can't believe one thing when the R's in charge and believe the complete opposite when our guys are in charge.
YMMV
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)the behavior of the Latin Americans and the media.
So it wouldn't be the question for me.
It's not "one set of facts" -- there are not enough facts in this case.
In any other case I think we'd have more to go on.
I can't immediately think of an example where things were so confused.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I can't remember the specifics of what exactly was said, but they claimed that President Obama actually shot down Morales' plane.
I'm not sure where they claimed that it happened, over France or over Spain, but the plane had to land in Austria.
I know the plane landed in Austria, but then again, I didn't see any pictures of the plane actually landing there, so who knows if it actually did or not.
But, all's well that ends well.
Morales apologized and the European countries, the gracious people that they are known to be, forgave him.