For the Record; I support the President, I think Snowden is a traitor and I hope Congress passes

[arely staircase]

Last edited Thu Jul 25, 2013, 12:35 PM - Edit history (1)

the Amash amendment and reigns in the NSA metadata sweeps. I am capable nuanced opinions.

Edited to say, too bad they didn't. I think we need to continue to debate and begin to roll back the excesses of the Patriot Act. (and I still think Snowden belongs in jai.)

[quinnox]

1. well, that puts you a leg up on most of your fellows

[arely staircase]

3. If you look back at my posts I have never supported that program

and I would have had a much different view of Snowden had he limited his leaking to domestic surveillance programs. I think the president is well intentioned but wrong on this matter. I don't think the executive branch willingly gives up power under any party and it is congress's job to jerk their chain from time to time. I never supported the Patriot Act, from which the executive derives this data collection power and I hope they start whittling away at it.

Now having said that, I would like to see Mr. Snowden arraigned before a US District judge post haste for sharing intelligence information with foreign powers.

[quinnox]

4. "I think the president is well intentioned but wrong on this matter." - just that statement alone

puts you miles above the slavish defenders/apologists. They are incapable of saying anything close to that.

[arely staircase]

5. I do take offense at many of the posts calling him an authoritarian

and like Bush, etc. and I stand with those other posters in those regards. I honestly believe President Obama considers this NSA program is in the best interest of the American people and keeping us safe from terrorists. There are real terrorists who want to do really bad things to us. However, I do disagree and hope he loses this particular battle in congress.

[great white snark]

6. Somehow supporting Obama=loving the NSA and wanting to keep it as is.

I support President Obama and hell, I wouldn't mind the Patriot Act repealed let alone curtailing the NSA.

But as it stands now, I want the CIC using every legal means at his disposal to protect the populace.

Looks like you and I think alike arely staircase. Great minds and all that..

Thanks for your post.

[Skidmore]

9. I think many of us have been saying this, if

people would bother to read for content instead of buzz words. One thing that I have consistently said is that, if the law is bad, Congress must be called upon to repeal or amend it. In the absence of Congressional action, it must work its way through the courts and end up back in Congress anyway should the Patriot Act or the FISA provisions be ruled unconstitutional. That is our system. That is how law is made. I have said no more and no less.

I think there are those who just want to blow the whole system apart without concern for what would be left in its wake.

[frylock]

38. not a whole lot of people making that distinction in the daily two-minute hate

[zipplewrath]

18. Not sure what you mean by "well intentioned"

The intentions of these actions are to trade liberty for power. Where are the "well intentions" in that?

Nice guys to bad things.

[arely staircase]

19. I think he genuinely believes it is useful to prevent terrorist attacks

and that is a good intention. I disagree with him as to how much authority I am willing to give the NSA in regards to that.

Overall I think he is an awesome president and would vote for him again tomorrow if I could.

[zipplewrath]

20. So would alot of things

It would take an amazing amount of cognitive dissonance to not notice the massive increase in surveillance this is causing, not to mention the reaction of the public and congress to what little we publicly know. He either has one heck of a set of blinders on (tunnel vision, whatever you want to call it), or his goals are to massively increase the surveillance capacity of the US, consequences be damned. This is suggesting that the mother had good intentions when she threw out the bath water, knowing the baby was still in it.

It is also interesting that you find Snowden to be a traitor, and don't make the same assumption of "well intentioned", despite the fact that he had little to gain, and Obama has so much to gain.

[KittyWampus]

40. Not really, I suspect most of his "fellows" feel the same. I do.

[Spazito]

2. Well said!

[Scurrilous]

7. Sounds reasonable.

[JoePhilly]

8. K&R

[KurtNYC]

10. The President is against the Amash Amendment and he isn't nuanced about it

I don't follow your math on this.

[arely staircase]

12. It is pretty easy to follow

I am a Democrat who supports this president, thinks he is doing an awesome job overall and I hope he loses this particular fight. If I were a Democrat in congress and the President called asking me to vote against the Amash Amendment I would simply tell him with all due respect this is one in which I don't have your back and I look forward to voting in favor of virtually your entire agenda as I have in the past, just not today.

And I would then tell anyone who called him an authoritarian or the stasi or George Bush or any other such horror to, with all due respect, go fuck themselves.

[cali]

11. If you think Snowden is actually a traitor, your nuance meter is broken n/t

[arely staircase]

13. giving your country's national security secrets to the Chinese is traitorous

in the extreme. Perfect outcome to all of this for me would be a repeal of the Patriot Act and Edward Snowden in a Federal prison for a long time. Win win.

[arely staircase]

17. I've known about the metadata sweeps since i first read about it in 2006

as for Snowden the traitor drawing attention to it, I suppose life is ironic sometimes but please read upthread. My opinion of him would be much different if all he had leaked was related to domestic activities. He became fucking Benedict Arnold when he took his sorry ass to China and started singing like a canary about US hacking activities in China.

[Agschmid]

22. Maybe this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

[Agschmid]

26. Hi... You don't seem to get the internet.

On wikipedia there are the neat little things called sources which actually direct you to the news stories which it references. And yes I did hear about this when it happened... I also heard about them building the data facility prior to *now* when everyone seems to be paying attention.

Since you are likely NOT to understand the source bit here is a DIRECT LINK to the Frontline story which was broadcast in 2007. Also here is another DIRECT LINK to the actual Wired article from 2006.

Ya' welcome.

[arely staircase]

25. I read that the NSA was collecting millions of phone records like everybody else did

Here is a USA Today editorial about it from 2006. Other reports from then are still available online. I think we know some more details about it now but the general program of scooping up phone records has been public knowledge for years.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-05-11-phone-records_x.htm?csp=15

[Agschmid]

30. Your point?

2006 was over 6 years ago, email has become an even MORE prevalent form of communication now. The point we are making is that if you were paying attention none of this should shock you.

[arely staircase]

32. well that was truly weird

the person we were talking to has had their posting privileges revoked. apparently a member since 2003 with only a handful of posts before today.

[Agschmid]

33. MIRT was on them, but to my knowledge they were new today? Weird...

[arely staircase]

35. i wonder what they did, to draw MIRT attention

it says the account has been around for ten years with no activity so was that enough? they were being obtuse, but I didn't see any violations. I would like to know out of curiosity.

[Agschmid]

36. I think the account "Name Removed" has been around for 10 years...

However that poster joined just today, and right after lunch.

[arely staircase]

37. ah nt

[arely staircase]

31. No because as far as I know the NSA isn't keeping every e-mail like they are

with phone records. My understanding (limited as it is) of the PRISM system is that it searches for key words in emails and from foreign based sources that pass through US based systems. Collecting foreign based signals intelligence has been the purpose of the NSA for decades so there is really nothing shocking in that revelation.

[LondonReign2]

15. Kudos

While I strongly disagree with you regarding Snowden, finding areas of common ground is refreshing.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

16. The president doesn't support you

e.g. Amash amendment

Unfortunately

[The Straight Story]

23. Which president? (nt)

[arely staircase]

34. of the United States (current)

what other president would I currently be supporting? an American one no longer in office? a foreign one?

[Drunken Irishman]

27. I don't think Snowden is a traitor...

But I think he's committed crimes. I support scaling back the NSA program, but I'm also not going to pretend it's the most pressing issue on my plate. I'd much rather focus on jobs, global warming and things that actually impact my life right now - but if we can get the NSA under wraps, let's do it.

[Major Hogwash]

29. Strong start, weak finish.

I liked the first 2 parts, but the last part is a tad luke warm.

[arely staircase]

39. kinda like the vote yesterday

I'm still glad it looks like there is political will to start rolling back the excesses of the Bush Administration and the Patriot Act.