The US is NOT a Christian nation

[Hugabear]

Next time some teabagger says the US was founded as a "Christian" nation, calmly ask them to cite the part of the Constitution that mentions Jesus Christ or God.

Invariably, they'll point to some other writings as proof of the Founding Fathers' religious convictions. While there may be plenty of debate on this, the bottom line is that it doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if the Founding Fathers were all devout Catholics, evangelical fundamentalists, Muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Scientologists, etc. It wouldn't matter if they had private writings describing their desire for a strict Christian theocracy. The Constitution is the law of the land, and nowhere does it establish Christianity as being the basis for our government. In fact, there are very specific instructions to keep religion out of government.

Not injecting religion into government doesn't make one a "bad" Christian...it merely makes one a law-abiding one.

[athenasatanjesus]

1. Or ask them why they think this is a Christian nation.....

...yet they claim that Christians are always being persecuted here.

[brewens]

2. Some of the colonies were founded as Christian colonies. When they

did that, there was no doubt what their intentions were. Here is a great article that explains the origin of the seperation of church and state. It's not something forced on religious people by godless heathens.



http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/God-Government-and-Roger-Williams-Big-Idea.html

[jberryhill]

3. "Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven"

It says "our Lord" right in it. What Lord might they be thinking about, considering it was 1787.

(I actually had one tell me that. The answer of course is that they put "We the People" above that in bigger letters. )

[JDPriestly]

15. The deist concept of God.

And the expression "year of our Lord" is derived from the term a.d., anno domini, year of our lord. It is simply a turn of phrase handed down to us by Catholics who set up our calendar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Domini

The American concept of separation of church and state does not reject religion. It is based on the idea that separation of church and state is good for both religion and politics. It allows both to evolve and change.

Having lived in European countries that do not have our ideas about separation of church and state, I have to say that religion is much stronger in Americans and in great part because of our separation of church and state.

In some countries the government collects a church tax to support the churches. That creates a lot of resentment against religion and limits people's freedom to choose their religion. Our system of separation of church and state is much better.

[Populist_Prole]

4. Damn straight it isn't!

Tired of this shit. I guess the only way for it to be pointed out in practical terms is for a candidate running with the issue to crash and burn: In the general election; not a primary.

[mikehiggins]

5. Once again, this is a Masonic nation

This claim of God's writing the Declaration or the Constitution pops up all the time.
Its bogus.
The underpinnings of this nation are Masonic and we can all be thankful for that.
Consider just how "tolerant" various Christian denominations were (and many still are) and wonder just what kind of a theocratic hell we'd exist in if that was what got us started.
Not that Masonry was any collection of fuzzy bunnies and cutesy little squirrels. The main advantage to Masonry was that every Mason was equal and that concept of equality, for all the injustices and so forth that this Nation has in its history (and present reality), underlay most of what the Founding Fathers did.
Just my opinion, of course

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. And the Women of the Masonic Temple were equal too?

Oh wait... Women can't BE Masons, can they?

Can they?

[JDPriestly]

16. Women were not viewed as equal by the Founding Fathers.

Women were not allowed to vote until 1919.

The key vote came on June 4, 1919, when the Senate approved the amendment by 56 to 25 after four hours of debate, during which Democratic Senators opposed to the amendment filibustered to prevent a roll call until their absent Senators could be protected by pairs. The Ayes included 36 (82%) Republicans and 20 (54%) Democrats. The Nays comprised 8 (18%) Republicans and 17 (46%) Democrats. It was ratified by sufficient states in 1920, the Nineteenth Amendment, which prohibited state or federal sex-based restrictions on voting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage#United_States

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. Whoa. You mean there was a time when Women couldn't vote? Who knew?

I posted what I did because I thought I detected a tacit head nod to Masons because as the poster stated "every Mason was equal".

Women couldn't vote? Really? (just kiddin')

[RZM]

6. The problem is that government and culture aren't the same thing

You're right. The US was founded as a secular nation according to Enlightenment principles. Freedom of religion is the law of the land. But many Americans subscribe to a religious faith and most of those are Christians. And that matters when we're talking about culture and popular perceptions.

[hfojvt]

7. a law abiding one, unlike, say, George Washington

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own, nor those of my fellow-citizens at large less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me, I trust, in thinking that there are none under the influence of which the proceedings of a new and free government can more auspiciously commence."

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres13.html

or Thomas Jefferson

"I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our fathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life; who has covered our infancy with His providence and our riper years with His wisdom and power, and to whose goodness I ask you to join in supplications with me that He will so enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils, and prosper their measures that whatsoever they do shall result in your good, and shall secure to you the peace, friendship, and approbation of all nations."

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres17.html

Specific instructions to keep religion out of government? Funny that Washington and Jefferson would disregard those instructions then.

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. Are you saying that something not explicitly stated in the Constitution...

is unconstitutional?

[pansypoo53219]

10. i have an old book on america and funny thing,

it does NOT mention god or the bible, but does mention THE MAGNA CARTA. it also has an exssay by teddy roosevelt saying we should welcome immigration.

[Rex]

11. But all our money has In God We Trust on it.

I mean I agree that money is not in the constitution, but still it is all over the money that buys one (in the gift shop). I think it is more along the line of ignoring the obvious.

[TracyKing]

13. Spam deleted by NRaleighLiberal (MIR Team)

[Rex]

14. We have an agnostic federal government

and they don't want to rule anything out imo. Money always changes color, size etc...but those words never change. So that is my observation.

[Major Nikon]

20. Actually that reasoning has a much higher value in deist belief

Prior to the US Revolution, most of the principal architects of our nation believed organized religion and more specifically the Christian church to be extremely tyrannical and heavily prone to corruption. The idea was that your natural rights were unalienable by any man, including those interpreting religious tomes. Those rights are "self-evident" meaning they were derived from reason and not revelation.

[cleanhippie]

22. ^^THIS^^

[Rex]

23. Kind of like Jeffersons Bible.

Cut out all that could be interpreted by man, according to Jefferson. Never thought about money in that light. Thanks!

[Major Nikon]

21. Go check US currency prior to the Civil War and see if you can find that phrase

[zinnisking]

24. It first appeared on money in 1864

it first appeared on coins in 1864. It was added to paper bills in 1956 during the wonderful McCarthy era.

I haven't done the research so I am unaware of how many FOunders were in our govt. in 1864.

You've been a DUer since 2002 and you don't know that that phrase wasn't added to money until the Civil War era? I am blown away.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. tell em to look up the Treaty of Tripoli. Watch their heads explode.

Ratified unanimously by Congress, signed by President John Adams in 1797.

Pertinent part: "As the United States is not in any sense a Christian nation".

If they say it's only a treaty, refer them to the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution:

Article VI, Section 2:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.


Freeper head ----->

Yes, I AM a lawyer, but I do not play one on TV unlike Shatner.

[Major Nikon]

19. The reality was the founding fathers fought quite hard to keep organized religion OUT

There were many calls for a national religion, religious tests for government officials, and all sorts of other nonsense at the time. A significant effort had to be made to intentionally keep our government secular. They well understood the problems associated with the entanglement of organized religion and government. They also placed a very high value on freedom of conscience.