General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI criticize democrats more than republicans
why? because what's the point of criticizing republicans- other than that it can be fun. the republican party is hopeless and its policies are an appalling paean to the 1% and an appeal to the worst traits in people.
I have more hope for the democratic party. I realize that there's no third party on the horizon on the national level. As Pema Chodron said: Start where you are. I also recognize that unpalatable as it is, conservadems will be elected in red states, but where we can, we need to run the most progressive and least corporate dems that we can.
Where I can support dems, I sure as hell do. I want the Senate to remain dem majority and I'd like to see dems take back the House, but even so, the democratic party as a whole is still in thrall to corporate money and lobbyists. I can't ignore that just because they're dems. I can't ignore it just because dems are better on social issues.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Thanks for sharing.
I yell at my wife ... because I love her.
vi5
(13,305 posts)My wife gets mad at me and tells me off sometimes. I do the same to her. Neither of us criticize or get mad at other people's spouses because it has nothing to do with us.
If I'm doing something annoying and stupid to tick her off, I need to hear about it so I can change and make things better. And vice versa.
Neither of us as individuals or in a relationship benefit from keeping things in and pretending things are o.k. and are working when they are not.
Thansk for putting in very simple terms why we should be criticizing Democrats!
zeemike
(18,998 posts)A sick relationship is one that neither person feels safe with telling the other what is bothering them...and I know because I have seen such relationships.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...than the crack selling hooker on the corner? Especially if aforementioned wife starts turning tricks?
'But she does it in a brothel, so it's legal!'
RC
(25,592 posts)But then you knew that.
(This Reply title is for those that can't see it and thinks our relationship with our government is emotionally healthy.)
cali
(114,904 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)Maybe you criticize DU'ers more than either R's or D's!
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Have you counted? Maybe you criticize DU'ers more than either R's or D's!"
...I've "counted" straw men, and your comment adds to the count.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023087676
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)You need to study logical reasoning a bit more.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)n/t
Accurate as well.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Last edited Thu Jul 25, 2013, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)
Thanks for sharing.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)Do you have a link?
MADem
(135,425 posts)lay-out.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)particularly with regards to the NSA.
Oh, the irony
MADem
(135,425 posts)I just don't think the debate should be moderated out of Moscow, mind you. Or Brazil.
Even without the NSA food fights, there are plenty of tear-down and "everything sucks" posts here--a few too many for my liking at times.
I have been moved to use the TRASH THREAD on occasion.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)but 'if you disagree with Obama you support Ron Paul' isn't robust debate. It's drama.
MADem
(135,425 posts)directed from Moscow or Brazil. IMO. I think there's a lot to know about the whole process that got a mid-level NSA analyst to a rather ghastly limbo in a Russian airport, and I think it's not all about his pure heart or "sincere concerns."
But we'll need more details to know that for certain.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It is the 'fallacy of ad hominem.'
Person A makes claim, X
Person B attacks person A
Therefore X is false
When a person cannot debate the issue, they attack the person
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'm sorry, it's not advancing the conversation.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)They don't advance the conversation.
MADem
(135,425 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...but what am I?
MADem
(135,425 posts)this thread.
This is just a subthread, so your effort doesn't really work too well.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)n/t
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)I hold Democrats to a higher standard.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)while rats are crawling around in yours too.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)I don't have rats. I have cats. Cats and rats are not suited for cohabitation. Cats trump rats.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)Morris is too old school and into the corporate world.
But I doubt he would run...
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Cuts out the middlemen. Gets to the problems both parties willfully make worse by embracing this ruinous system.
If something's corrupted for nearly 35 years, do you blame the people or their handlers? Would any of us say "I won't participate in the lost cause of quelling individual greed" and walk away? Some do . . .
cali
(114,904 posts)Dazzling as a thousand suns, oh great trumadddy.
trumad
(41,692 posts)why babble on about why it's a duck?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)than Republicans?
trumad
(41,692 posts)And those who don't think we do are idiots.
MADem
(135,425 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Nt
cali
(114,904 posts)and act petulantly.
tridim
(45,358 posts)What are you laughing at? Your own comment?
cali
(114,904 posts)And who are YOU to speak for DU?
tridim
(45,358 posts)But if you really want to know, both Trumad and myself have been here since Bush v. Gore. DU grew up around us. It has my online home for well over a decade. I care deeply about our (former) integrity and accuracy.
Why do you disagree that Trumad is a DU treasure? Too much truth for ya?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)er, yeah, I sure as shit do, kestrel dear. It's called a typo. You know what's telling? The likes of YOU calling me a right winger as you've done repeatedly.
Oh, and your silly shit about a typo.
that's telling
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Conservatives? Ridicule is the best that can be hoped for; they have no shame and no empathy and no chance of learning anything.
great white snark
(2,646 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)The answer to your question is no.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Then you wouldn't have to see any of their OPs.
I do it all the time.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Psephos
(8,032 posts)- not -
On my browser I can actually skip reading posts I'm not interested in.
LearningCurve
(488 posts)Decided not to, glad you did.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)daylight between the two parties anymore.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Of course I will criticize Dems.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)they're the ones I count on to do my bidding and save the country. I can't do anything about Inhofe and Graham and Gohmert. I CAN do something about MY party. That's why I complain to them.
SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Inexorable, corrosive and predictable.
They're a force of nature that people interested in the betterment of society need to mitigate. To treat them like honest brokers of ideas from the other side of the aisle is counterproductive.
You deal with them the same way rust is dealt with on ships. Scrape it away without malice or personal investment and repair the damage, then move on to the next rust spot.
I too criticize democrats, because there is some point to it. Unlike Republicans, they tend to be sentient.
mac56
(17,574 posts)D23MIURG23
(2,850 posts)WovenGems
(776 posts)I criticize Democrats and make fun of Republicans and laugh out loud at TeaParty nutters.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)The enemy is at the door. ALEC and state legislatures are dismantling our rights at an alarming rate.
The is a real danger here, and we must use our energies to beat back the right wing assault, and every minute we spend attacking each other gives aid and comfort to the REAL enemy.... The conservatives.
Obama and a tenuous hold on the senate is all that stands between us and a loss of everything we hold dear.
Aim your arrows outward at the enemy, not inward on each other.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Getting tired of whining DU'ers... get with the program and aim your anger at Republican obstructionism.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They want something to cry about? Let the GOP take Congress in 2014 and we'll be sobbing for the "good old days" when we had the Senate, at least.
No voting without ID, no women's right to choose, that kind of shit will really help the situation...not.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Strawman
MADem
(135,425 posts)We see those arguments here every day. They aren't strawmen.
Do you even know what a strawman is?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
MADem
(135,425 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It must be because he isn't perfect! = Strawman.
People who criticize a continuation of Bush policies are going to leave the Democratic party! = strawman.
Setting up a fallacy then kicking it down = strawman.
Have a nice day!
MADem
(135,425 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)I'm fickle like that...
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)vi5
(13,305 posts)Especially the heads of my family, were actively working with the aforementioned Barbarians, and telling me "Oh hey, maybe the Barbarians have some good ideas and we should find some middle ground with them", and wanting to replace my sharpened, pointed arrows with foam tipped nerf ones.........I don't know about you but that would piss me off and I dont' think I'd be thanking my family members for any of that.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)why isn't the Democratic party fighting them with every breath of their being?
Response to burnodo (Reply #138)
Cali_Democrat This message was self-deleted by its author.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)we don't adopt their policies. We should be held to a higher standard than them.
Response to scheming daemons (Reply #30)
seaglass This message was self-deleted by its author.
rock
(13,218 posts)What purpose is served by criticizing pigs or republicans?
AllINeedIsCoffee
(772 posts)Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)complain about them in public. I had a chance to vote on them, on the President more than once.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)letters, not so much.
SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)And they keep stats on the subject of the letter/email and where the writer falls on the issue, pro or con. Congresscritters use those stats to justify their votes.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)They, and particularly the NRA, know how to orgainize very effective letter writing campaigns--ones that make Dem representatives in Congress vote against, say, a background check bill that 90% of Americans support.
I'm sure you know all about that.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)their seats in 1994. Tell that to those Democratic Congressmen in 1994 who wanted to take away choice and the right of Americans for centuries to determine whether they would or would not personally own firearms.
Yea, re-adopt the losing 1994 strategy. That ought to do it.
Demonize all Democrats who own firearms or who otherwise want to retain the choice as "gun nuts." Demonize all Independents who own firearms or who otherwise want to retain the choice as "gun nuts."
You got a winning strategy. Keep with it.
SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)BTW, it ain't 1994 anymore.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)But if you want to derail this thread by veering into gun nuttery, be my guest.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)You are going to be frustrated in your efforts to change that.
If you weren't frustrated, you would not have to refer to "gun nuts" and "gun nuttery."
Walk toward the light. You'll feel better with enlightenment.
SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)But a lot of Repukes are talking about banning all abortions. To equate your gun loving hobby with a woman's right to control her own body is revolting.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)Forcing gun nuttery on people so gun manufacturers can make money is authoritarian.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Democrats, and who do not want to risk losing elections by adopting the 1994 losing strategy, do not.
SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)Just the nuts who already own guns have now amassed arsenals.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)Plus, Gallup is a notoriously Republican leaning pollster. But you knew that.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)The 2011 Gallup data is the most recent that was found today.
If you have a Gallup poll that is more current than 2011, you are welcome to post that information. Or you can wait until another Gallup poll is taken.
Do you know why most Democratic Senators and Representatives are not rushing to repeat the strategy that led to the 1994 defeat? It's because they are not stupid.
SunSeeker
(51,657 posts)In fact, some ran and won on such a platform since Sandy Hook, touting their "F" NRA rating. But I am fine with you and your compatriots believing it is. It's great when you're underestimated by the opposition.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)My representative is a Republican from the T wing, they do answer the phone and e-mails.
I am a Democrat, I agree with most of the things my party does. My party is led by the Democratic President in office now. He was just re-elected by both an electoral and popular vote margin.
There is another party out there that I almost totally disagree with. They control one branch of the Congress and can filibuster the other branch. They have almost taken control of the Supreme Court. They officially want to privatize social security. They officially want to end Medicare. They officially are unilaterally cutting food stamps. They officially continue to vote over and over to end Obamacare. They officially allowed torture when they held the Presidency. They officially started a preemptive war. I have enough to criticize in that other party.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)positions in the Obama Administration?
Or are they off limits to you?
More than just your Congressional Representative is a Republican who purportedly represents you.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)calls someone who doesn't a Republican. Sounds like something from 1984, war is peace, Republican is Democrat, Libertarian is Democrat.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)You can now argue technicalities or explain what that means.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)when you said that?
At #70, you said:
"MY REPRESENTATIVE IS A REPUBLICAN ..."
"MY REPRESENTATIVE IS A REPUBLICAN ..."
"MY REPRESENTATIVE IS A REPUBLICAN ..."
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)BTW that's not a question.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)who purportedly represents you"?
That is literally true.
First you have your Congressional Representative who is a Republican who purportedly represents you.
The you have all the Republicans who have been appointed to high-level postions in the Obama Adminstration. None of them were even required to change their spots or be pretend Republicans. They are still Republicans. These high-level Repubicans in the Obama Administration are governmental officials who purportedly represent you.
You say and admit knowing that your Congressional Representative is a Republican. You know or should know that there are high-level Republicans in the Obama Administration. If you do not know that, it does not change the fact.
QED:
"More than just your Congressional Representative is a Republican who purportedly represents you."
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)or at least you didn't intend to.
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)The whole family knows abuse is happening, so you naturally turn to the OTHER parent and say, "Isn't there something you can do?"
-only to find that the other parent has been covering and enabling the abuse all along.
bigtree
(86,005 posts). . . you really think you could sustain an opposition party by focusing more criticism on them than the ones you suppose to oppose?
Probably fine for an internet forum, but, as a general practice, it's frequently nothing more than aid and comfort for republicans; and most often a diversion from the brand of deliberate, determined obstruction that republicans bring to the political process these days.
That's why republicans regularly promote Democrat-bashing-Democrat tripe.
And, dear, our party is represented by a capital 'D'; not the pathetic, disrespectful manner in which you've treated our party's name in your post.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)lumpy
(13,704 posts)n
emulatorloo
(44,171 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)at DU. It's all Obama's fault because OBAMA=BAD!!!!!!!!!!
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I EXPECT Dogs to act like dogs.
I expect Republicans to act like Republicans.
I do NOT support Republican Policy.
I do NOT vote for them.
I do NOT support them.
I do NOT send them money.
I am NOT disappointed when they support the RICH over the needs of the Working Class.
Therefore, I do NOT expect Republicans to listen to me,
or to represent me OR my political needs.
They have no reason to do so.
I DO send money to Democrats.
I vote FOR Democrats.
I GOTV FOR Democrats.
I campaign FOR Democrats.
I canvass my area FOR Democrats.
[/font size=3]I expect Democrats to represent to My Working Class ASS!!![/font]
I EXPECT Democrats to Act like Democrats.
I EXPECT Democrats to listen to ME.
I EXPECT to have a VOICE in MY Party.
When "Democrats" act like Republicans,
I am ANGRY, and rightly so.
When Democrats pander to the RICH,
and ignore the needs of the 1% and The Poor,
I feel betrayed.
[font size=3]When I feel disappointed or betrayed by MY Democrats,
I WILL express my concerns.
I have EARNED the RIGHT to Have-A-Voice-in-MY-Party with 46 years of contributions, campaign support, party voting, and activism.[/font]
Those who think I shouldn't criticize Democrats can Kiss My Old Democratic Donkey ***.
I have nothing but contempt for that kind of thinking,
and I am not going to go along peacefully.
I have been a Working Class Democrat too long to do something like that.
---bvar22
mainstream-center FDR/LBJ Working Class Pro-LABOR DEMOCRAT for 46 years
BTW: Lock Step approval without dissent and not criticizing our own IS a Republican Value.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]
Catherina
(35,568 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Thanks for keeping it real.
fjlovato
(29 posts)Railing at corporate money and lobbyists is much like shaking your fist at God - it surely does not intimidate God and does even less for your blood pressure. It happens because money is what drives everything so if you expect perfection you will drive yourself nutty. Posting these comments do nothing to start an intellegent conversation. By the way, the party is the "Democratic" party and not the "democratic" party. AND you seem more of an independent so go find an independent blog and quit fostering descent amoung Democrats.
lumpy
(13,704 posts)n
cali
(114,904 posts)and it did start a conversation. I'm a democrat. I've always been one. Oh, and it's dissent, not descent.
I think speaking out about corporate money is vital. Better than just pretending that it's not polite or whatever the incoherent crap it is that you're pushing.
Garion_55
(1,915 posts)the medical pot raids that just happened were the last straw for me. I want a real progressive for president.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Garion_55
(1,915 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Garion_55
(1,915 posts)kinda sucks that there arent any real true progressives in the democrat party that spring to mind.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Garion_55
(1,915 posts)who else was i supposed to vote for? name another candidate who supports legalization.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Garion_55
(1,915 posts)do i not have that right as a voter?
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Smoking pot is more important than health care, the economy, education, the poor, jobs.......
Garion_55
(1,915 posts)and pot was the only thing keeping her here with us.
so yeah i was a single issue voter last election. the one most important to me at the time.
the one that this president is failing on.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)You are still a one issue voter then?
I think you took a wrong turn somewhere on the internets.
Garion_55
(1,915 posts)a person to get through their chemo treatments. it did for my step mom for years otherwise she would have died sooner.
how can I be on a progressive website and people not know this stuff? crazy.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)There are some cancer patients on this site. Sorry, plenty of people here know that smoking can restore appetite and make chemo more comfortable.
Being a one issue voter is foolish. There are a hell of a lot more pressing issues facing us today then legalizing pot.
Garion_55
(1,915 posts)if nothing is getting done and looks like nothing will be getting done for the next 3 years of his presidency, i dont blame someone for being a one issue voter. at that point what does it matter?
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)for you to do is give up and vote for some libertarian asshat.
2014 is coming. Maybe it's time to think about getting rid of republican obstructionism.
Garion_55
(1,915 posts)that i agree with and that i believe will actually be able to get some stuff accomplished in washington.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)If the Dem candidate was totally progressive, liberal, etc and yet he/she was against abortion, I think everybody on this site would turn into a "one-issue-voter"
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)is the most pressing issue facing the world.
Libertarians are anti-progressive.
Garion_55
(1,915 posts)who spent 6 extra years on this planet only because of pot. she was ready to give it up and just die from the cancer and the chemo. pot was the last thing she actually tried before giving up and it worked. she lived another 6 years.
im also thinking about how many cancer patients in washington today are now going to be suffering needlessly because of these stupid DEA raids. Obama has the power to make some changes and he refuses to. F him.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts). . . and anti-Universal Health Care, anti-IRS and anti-social program in general.
I think ending the military interventions, ending the TSA/spying on citizens lunacy, pro-marriage equality and ending the drug war (not so much because Johnson's pro-peace, pro-liberty, pro-gay or pro-pot, but more because he's an anti-federal-government-getting-involved-in-ANYthing states rights guy) are just about the only progressive initiatives on his board. Everything else is wingnut crapola, especially his economic plan.
THIS IS what I'm supposed to read as a reasonable option . . . someone who thinks we don't coddle corporations ENOUGH????
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Garion_55
(1,915 posts)not a republican.
but i voted obama the first time and was proud to. and i have defended his record all this time even though i voted pro-pot last time. but like i said im done with that now. im done defending him. im looking elsewhere for leadership.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Think of it as criticizing a friend endlessly everytime you meet. I think at some point that friend is going to stop being your friend.
spin
(17,493 posts)does little good.
If enough of his friends express concern about hi behavior he may make an effort to correct it. Otherwise he will probably just continue his bad habits.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)but you also need to consider the possibility that your criticism is unfounded and wrong.
spin
(17,493 posts)and warranted. Even Obama gets a fair amount of criticism.
The members of a political party have every right to expect the candidates they elect to largely support the views of the party and the voters who elected them and to try to do what they promised. When an elected politician doesn't deliver on his promises to his constituents and doesn't even try to do so, he deserves some criticism. Such behavior helps to explain why many citizens avoid voting. I've had many people tell me that it doesn't make any difference who you vote for as they all are more interested in supporting the big corporations than the little guy and will sell out their voters in a heartbeat. These people also inform me that once a politician gets into office he will do everything possible to insure he gets reelected.
When an elected politician behaves badly (for example Anthony Weiner), it is not wrong to criticism him and suggest he gets some help to overcome his problem. Bad behavior by the few can damage the entire party and ruin effort to achieve change.
But I will agree that too much criticism is not helpful and can be counterproductive.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)The party is supposed to work for me in return for my support.
A better analogy: when a boss repeatedly points out an employee's mistakes, repeatedly makes suggestions for improvement, and those mistakes are not corrected, and continue to happen, that employee needs to be fired for the good of the whole.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)At the moment they are the only thing between us and the RW wolves.
The Democrats are the party that has given way so often that the rw is able to move us steadily rightward.
There are a few good Democrats left. Pun intended. The party itself has been corrupted by the dlc/centrist/"new" democrat/3rd way/neo-liberals.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)You dont see the big picture my friend.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)The big picture incorporates more than the Democratic Party and/or the Republican Party.
Personally, I don't find the elephant or the donkey to be representative of the parties they symbolize.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I am focusing on the short term big picture.. like surviving the next few years. If we don't stop the GOPers from taking over we are pretty much doomed anyway.
Nice cartoon.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Response to cali (Original post)
woo me with science This message was self-deleted by its author.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Can't say I do anymore.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)I really don't.
That was an old line I used to use, and probably I cling to it sometimes when I am feeling especially hopeless about what is being done to this country.
But, no. You are absolutely right. I don't believe it anymore.
polichick
(37,152 posts)the power of internet organizing and social media - and the fact that few in the younger generation trust the media or traditional institutions.
imo corporations/mic (enabled by the Party-With-Two-Faces) are pillaging this country as fast as they can because they know we're about to crash and burn.
Who knows what will rise from the ashes - could be awesome in the end, but it's gonna get real ugly first.
emulatorloo
(44,171 posts)While lots of us push back against the Republican agenda both here in the real world, you essentially work to enable the Republican agenda by constantly distracting from it.
Democrats do often deserve criticism, but Republicans are to be fought against.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Why should such Republicans be off limits from your criticism?
They don't even have a pretend " D)" after their names.
emulatorloo
(44,171 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)we all have a bit more in common than we want to admit. I have no problem with you raising the important issues about what Dems are allowing in our name. I should truthfully do more of that myself just so people understand I am not an Obama worshiper.
I have my reactions to very personal criticisms of Obama on here because I know that while not perfect, he is operating within the constraints of the power structure that has been put in place. We need to support him and KICK THE SHIT out of our Dem senators and representatives to go along with more progressive ideals. AND beat the shit out of Republicans.
This country is going to hell in a hand basket, and I DON'T blame Obama primarily for what is the inertia of the corruption in DC and further concentration of power and wealth at the turn of the 21st century.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...must be held to a higher standard than Republicans, who are too stupid to know any better.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)have at it with the Democrats who support this:
Senate pushes sanctions on nations aiding Snowden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023338422
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)In my imagination, I picture this guffawing corporate clown leaping alongside the huge oligarchs who are picking up and devouring poor people, pointing its ugly clown finger at everyone and laughing.
Nice work finding a job you can be proud of. Nice work on PR for the Democratic Party.
Response to woo me with science (Reply #94)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)having to respond your obsessive reposting: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023217632#post16
Thanks for cutting that out. Yikes!
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...by obsessively reposting
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)'Secret Laws'
According to Wyden, the post-9/11 PATRIOT Act and FISA Amendments Act have done more than facilitate a level of domestic surveillance. If allowed to expand, unchecked, he argued, they could turn "the idea of a telescreen monitoring your every move...from dystopia to reality."
The Senator says that the Acts created, for the first time in our nation's history, a secret system of laws. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Courts, operating in secret and relying only upon the one-sided, non-adversarial secret presentations by government lawyers, issue decisions that only the government is permitted to see.
Wyden stated:
The reliance of government on a secret body of law has real consequences. Most Americans don't expect to know the details about ongoing, sensitive military and intelligence activities, but, as voters, they absolutely have a right and a need to know what their government believes it is permitted to do. Because, that is what Americans need to be able to ratify or reject decisions that elected officials make on their behalf.
It is a fundamental principle of American democracy that laws should not be public only when it is convenient for government officials to make them public If Americans aren't able to learn how their government interprets and executes the law, then we will have eliminated the fundamental bulwark of our democracy.
Without public laws, and public court rulings interpreting those laws, it is impossible to have informed public debate. And when the American people are in the dark, they can't make fully informed decisions about who should represent them, or protest policies that they disagreed with.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)some come to express opinions and others seem intent on cos-playing a Public relations flak for the DNC.
emulatorloo
(44,171 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)WHAT FUCKING DIFFERENCE WOULD IT MAKE IF THE PARTY LEADERS DIDN'T DO THE SAME THING?
It's called mental masturbation.
emulatorloo
(44,171 posts)You have convinced me not to bother doing GOTV in 2014. Because that would be masturbatory.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)And by the sound of things Democrats win every election handily, not 51-49 or lost 49-51. If Democrats are superior elections shouldn't be so close.
The point of discussion here was about not criticizing Democrats because Pukes are the enemy. That would make DU a meaningless partisan cheerleading squad just like Free Republic.
emulatorloo
(44,171 posts)There's a highly successful right-wing smear machine out there which paint Democrats in the worst possible light. Koch Bros. Rove's Crossroads. Billions and Billions of dollars targeting Democratic politicians with smears, half truth and innuendo.
There is a "news media" that greets Republican Talking Points with wide-eyed wonder and then applies steely-eyed skepticism to anything said by a Democrat. Reporting on Congress is abysmal. "Congress failed to pass" rather than "Republicans filibustered and blocked".
The deck is stacked against Democrats. It takes activists to talk to people to try to counter act the 24/7 raw sewage being dumped on the US population by the smear machine and the Republican owned media. That's another function DU has as well.
You write:
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"The point of discussion here was about not criticizing Democrats because Pukes are the enemy. That would make DU a meaningless partisan cheerleading squad just like Free Republic."
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I beg to differ, the point of discussion in this particular thread is about some DU'ers attempting to justify why they give Republicans free passes.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)If the Republicans are bad, I can live with that.
If the Democrats join them, we are completely screwed.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)If the Democrats join them, we are completely screwed.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Ever try to convince a Republican to change their mind ?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)and it is an exercise in futility.
Democrats on the other hand should know better. I hold them to a higher standard.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)we try to make them better? Why engage them? Why even take them seriously. They are a party of hate.
Our only chance at survival is to fight to keep the Dems from moving to the center in reaction to the repubs march to the extreme.
Spirochete
(5,264 posts)Republicans are odious, soulless, malevolent creatures that i expect nothing good from, ever. No point in criticizing them for doing what I expected of them in the first place. I have no expectations of republicans - only contempt.
Democrats, on the other hand, are my only hope of seeing anything done right. I vote for them for that reason. And it upsets me when they don't do what they were elected for.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)and the margin of "better on social issues" narrows as our country continues its slide to the right.
JohnnyRingo
(18,640 posts)Back in the '60s with the Vietnam War raging, I was one of the ones chanting "hey hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today" at protests. My first vote as an 18 year old was for George McGovern. Now I look back at the Johnson administration as one of the greatest of my lifetime. The good he did on social issues far outweighed his right wing views on foreign policy. The country would be an almost unrecognizable conservative wet dream without his action on civil rights and social equality.
I didn't like Jimmy Carter while he was in office. I bought into much of the hype about what an ineffective failure he was and was quite upset that he couldn't resolve the hostage crisis. I was so disillusioned with Carter I cast the only vote in my life for a Republican in 1980. After I saw Reagan dismantle the air traffic controllers union, I realized what a mistake I'd made and vowed never to fall for a Republican smear again. Like most people, I now look back at Jimmy Carter as a great president who presided over a divided nation with a steady and tempered hand.
I kept my resolve when Clinton was in office, but the republican smear machine was in full overdrive. That smear campaign bled into the left with claims at the time that he was absolutely no friend to liberals. With legislation like welfare reform and NAFTA, it's a wonder he even saw re-election. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight we now understand that the Clinton years were some of the most prosperous and socially beneficial of my 40 year voting record.
I watch now as history repeats itself. The Republican smear machine has become a well oiled leviathan that seems unstoppable, and the chorus from the left rises once again to express disillusion and contempt for a president that will one day be remembered as one of the greatest of the new generation.
I believe much of the noise from the left that could help usher in another GW Bush in 2016 is coming from disenfranchised Hillary, Dean, and Kucinich supporters who have been playing a game of "what if" since 2008. The Kennedy dems did that during the LBJ years, the McGovern people did that while Carter was in office, the Nader folks did that while Clinton was president, and now it's predictably happening all over again.
Self hating Democrats who demand an uncompromising far left White House have historically done more to install Republicans than Grover Norquest could ever hope in my lifetime, but discontent seems to trademark our party.
Someday, even the most strident critics of the Obama Administration will speak fondly of these years, but it may take another four years of Republican rule to bring it into focus. That's how it always works, and I see no reason this time is any different.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Not even enough to take their ideas and hate seriously. When I find out someone buys into their bullshit, I cease engaging that person. They are not worthy time.
There is still hope with Dems, although as a party they are moving too far right.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)as I'm concerned. Logic says the Republicans should garner no more than 5-10% in any nationalized election and I'm confident as time goes on and demographics move more firmly against them, the Republicans will assume the status of rump political party, effective only at the local level adn at the margins nationally. The real policy battles in the future will be fought within and among the various factions of the Democratic Party.
treestar
(82,383 posts)it merely empowers Republicans. Politicians need support once in office, or they can't accomplish as much. This is more true for Democrats, who do want to accomplish something. You just let the media say even the Democrats don't like the Democratic officer holders, and that makes them weaker.
And people don't always respond to criticism by doing what you want. If you think you can get people to do what you want by criticizing the way they are doing things, you are mistaken.
I don't know, not having a manipulative personality, how it feels to think you've pushed people into doing what you want when they don't want to, but it seems like it would lead to a negative angry personality type who doesn't get much out of life - because other people are never going to go along with it.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I EXPECT Republicans to be vicious, to be ignorant, to be WRONG.
I also expect Democrats to be principled, to represent working people, minority groups, etc., and to work for the benefit of them. When I don't see that happening, I'm going to be vocal about it.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)It's called Free Republic.
spin
(17,493 posts)even when they lie to us, act abhorrently, or sell their constituents out for support from the big corporations and the 1%.
If we don't occasionally hold our elected officials accountable for their actions then would we be any better than the Republican Party?
polichick
(37,152 posts)Some people here understand the difference between blindly supporting a party and supporting policies.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)MineralMan
(146,324 posts)Please proceed.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I love watching them blow their tops when you criticize the POTUS and there is nothing they can do to refute the information. Just a lot of foot stomping and wishing you would just go away.
Don't ever leave, you serve an important role here in keeping the RAH RAHs at bay.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)the truly progressive candidates that you want.
Endless criticism is pretty useless unless it turns into some sort of positive action. The folks around here who complain the loudest, and the most often, could be the ones putting forward the "better democrats" that they demand.
And yet that does not happen.
I'd take the complainers more seriously if they were bringing forward better candidates. Discussing them.
But they don't seem to be able / willing to do that.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Yes. Republicans suck. Tell us something we don't know.
Number23
(24,544 posts)But I'm sure you'll have another 30 or so in a few minutes so maybe things will pick up soon.