Reminder: Don't mock panhandlers on the subway

[Renew Deal]

A crazed subway panhandler pulled a knife and threatened a straphanger on a crowded train yesterday before being subdued by a good Samaritan and held until cops arrived, authorities and witnesses said.

The 35-year-old woman boarded the Manhattan-bound N train at around 6:40 p.m. at Queensboro Plaza and began asking for money.

Another woman, 52, began mocking her, unleashing the vagrant’s anger.

“The beggar woman came around and spit at her,” said witness Natalie Arneson. “The heckler spit back and the beggar turned around, charged at her and pulled out a knife.”
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/knife_terror_aboard_train_DHwHVrUs61nkW1SHddl5TI

[MADem]

1. That's one way to get "three hots and a cot." NT

[southernyankeebelle]

2. What would have hurt if the woman would have given her a buck? She should of shut her mouth.

However, the woman shouldn't of spit in her face and the other woman probably wouldn't of spit back.

[frylock]

3. the homeless woman likely has some form of mental illness..

the asshole mocking her will hopefully think twice before doing something as insensitive and stupid ever again.

[southernyankeebelle]

5. Yes I think your right. It is sad. You know you pray because it could be you threw no fault of your

own.

[Renew Deal]

13. She didn't seem to learn from this incident

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42680831/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/cops-woman-attacked-after-scolding-subway-smoker

The lesson is don't mess with crazy people, especially on the subway.

[MADem]

7. We have two people behaving badly, but the one with the knife was by far the biggest asshole.

I don't like people who get in my face on public conveyances demanding money, myself. I wouldn't spit on them or mock them, but I really think the transit police should do a better job stopping that kind of stuff. You don't pay your money for a ride from point A to point B to get threatened by people who are demanding money from the fare paying public.

I would probably be more inclined to give someone money who was sitting/standing in a well-travelled area, not that I have much opportunity to interact in that fashion these days--I am not presently city dwelling so I'm not using tube/subway/MTA, what have you, routinely. Buskers, though, if they are even halfway good, will get something from me if I am using public trans in a city.

I really don't like the concept of "Give 'em a buck or they just might stab you" to be honest. I'd like to see better social service programs to mitigate that sort of bully-begging in the first place.

[southernyankeebelle]

10. I agree. The lady should never ever pull a knive. If the republican party keeps giving these

people conservative compassion I just don't know why they are complaining. Right. But you are right. We have let the working poor in this country down. They can't afford to live in a house and buy food, insurance and just the everyday things of life.

[libinnyandia]

4. I rode the subway in NYC for over 20 years and never saw anything like that happen.

I would say both women have mental issues. I usually carried change with me and would sometimes give a little. I did give more often to musicians, some very good.

[Chorophyll]

6. Me too. Never saw a panhandler be anything but meek,

occasionally a bit loud and annoying. If I had some change readily available I gave. Otherwise I just let them go on their way. I certainly wouldn't make fun of them and I've never seen anyone else do that either.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. I've also used the NY subway countless times and never saw anything like this

I'm sure these incidents are rare.

[HuckleB]

12. Exactly.

Spreading fear because of an anecdote is just ugly pointlessness.

[Renew Deal]

15. Just a few weeks ago I saw a womans rear end on the subway.

She walked right past me on the train, went into the area between trains and before the door as closed, dropped her pants and squated. I don't know for sure what she was doing, though I assume it had to do with bodily functions.

The train started to move and she was still there. She eventually came into the subway car and sat down.

If you ride the train long enough you'll see anything. A friend of mine pretty much broke up a knife fight on the subway a few years ago.

[HuckleB]

18. Oh, God!

Someone peed or pooped!

Whatever shall we do?

[Renew Deal]

19. Thankfully not in the subway car

There was also the time when some homeless looking guy was asleep in one of the cars. The overwhelming smell of urine chased out pretty much everyone...during morning the morning rush. I've seen more than a few people urinate on the tracks. And so many more.

[HuckleB]

22. Why do you think this is something unusual in human history?

This stuff happens everywhere. Always has.

They are people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. I Am Sure Since Eve Ate The Apple People Have Been Defecating And Urinating In Public

Last edited Wed Feb 22, 2012, 07:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Unless there were no other alternatives.

[HuckleB]

33. You actually think defecating in public is new?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. I Meant To Say Have (My Bad)

.

[happy ash wednesday]

49. Wow, someone taking a shit in public wouldn't faze you?

Uh...you must be quite tolerant of such insanity....

[Snake Alchemist]

31. In the 70's it was more common. nt

[shanti]

55. your experience

i rode light rail to work every day for 15 years and saw several instances of violence, weapons, and mental illness. it definitely happens.

[bhikkhu]

9. Any panhandler is an unfortunate stranger, who's story we don't know

...I can't even imagine mocking someone in that situation. Someday down the road it could be any one of us needing a handout.

[chrisa]

11. Many of them are crazy and belong in mental hospitals

I don't even make eye contact with them. It's always best to keep walking.

[HuckleB]

14. If you simply said hello, and told them you couldn't help today, or that you could...

... you'd likely spend a lifetime of harassment free fine interactions with your fellow humans.

[Renew Deal]

16. I'm not sure what you're saying.

But it doesn't sound like good advice. The best thing to do is to not look and not talk.

[HuckleB]

17. Hogwash.

The best advice is to be a human, and to talk to your fellow humans.

[Renew Deal]

20. That might be good advice for some places, but not a NYC subway car.

Beginning a conversation with someone homeless or crazy looking on the subway is a risk. It's not the smart thing to do if you want to make it to your stop as the woman in this story found out.

[HuckleB]

21. Hogwash.

I've spend plenty of time in NYC, and have many friends who live there. People are people. It is not the 1970s.

[yellowcanine]

41. Greeting someone politely is not "beginning a conversation". This woman was not polite. There is a

difference between mocking someone and politely saying "hello." I have interacted with plenty of homeless people and I have never had a simple greeting devolve into something negative. If you treat people like the human beings they are there will not be problems. Of course if someone is obviously psychotic it is probably best to avoid them but if a person is simply asking for money there is no need to be rude. A simple greeting with eye contact treats them like a human being. If they press you can say gently but firmly, "I am sorry, not today." Again, there really is no need to be rude and certainly no need to mock people.

[smirkymonkey]

51. I live in Manhattan and in my neighborhood I know most of the homeless, and I

often give them money, soemtimes change, sometimes a few dollars. On days when I am a little strapped I will just tell them "sorry, i can't today" and wish them a good day. None of them have ever been aggressive with me and they always tell me to have a good day or say "god bless you" (not that I am religious, but it's the thought that counts) or something along those lines.

They know that if I had it, I would give them money or food and when I don't I still treat them kindly and talk to them. New York is a big city, but every neighborhood is almost like a village and people tend to take care of each other - especially in certain neighborhoods.

The subway can get a little crazier, so I am not quite as open, but I use my judgement - If someone looks dangerous or heavily under the influence I keep my head down, but if they seem helpless and just desperately in need, I will usually give something, especially if they are displaying a talent.

[Snake Alchemist]

30. Very bad advice.

A lot are like Jared Loughner. You may tell them hello, but that is not what they hear.

[HuckleB]

32. Bzzzzt. Wrong answer.

Way to spread BS about people with mental illness. Stigma is disgusting. Stop.

[Snake Alchemist]

34. Feel free to do it.

Just don't advise any people visiting or moving to NYC any time soon.

[HuckleB]

35. That's funny.

You actually think NYC is a dangerous place. Try visiting the rest of the country. Sheesh.

[Snake Alchemist]

36. I was born and raised in NYC.

Not like it was when I was a kid, but it still has it's moments.

[HuckleB]

37. Again, visit the rest of the country.

Those of us who do, and who pay attention, know we're as safe as it gets in NYC.

[Snake Alchemist]

38. Yeah, having lived in 5 states stretching across the NE, South, and West I am admittedly sheltered.

And my travels in Asia, South America, Australia (2 months ago) and Europe also limits me. I am unfortunately still missing Africa and Antarctica.

Like I said. Fine to do it for you. Just don't advise anyone else to take the same actions. Kind of like people who say rattlesnake handling is completely safe.

[HuckleB]

39. Your red herrings do not matter.

Reality does. And the reality of the situation is that I would be giving advice based on evidence, while you apparently would not. So telling me not to give it seems quite bizarre, at best.

[Snake Alchemist]

40. My advice keeps people safe though, yours does not.

Remember that as long as you do not show fear, the rattlesnake will not bite you. Good luck!

[LanternWaste]

44. I imagine we often rationalize our

I imagine we often rationalize our vulgarity to, and the way we minimize the homeless. Using safety to justify it is a very tried-and-true, and traditional method (though perceiving the homeless as rattlesnakes is a new one to me...)

[Snake Alchemist]

46. It only takes one paranoid schizophrenic to ruin your day.

No way saying this applies to the majority.

[JitterbugPerfume]

29. There are no mental institutions left

These people have been put in group homes with a handful of Thorazine and wished good luck by St Ronnie Reagan. They wandered off and the system lost track of them. No body gives a damn.

[Bucky]

23. Having worked with the homeless, I think it's wrong to give them money

But that said, this is not a life lesson about not mocking panhandlers. It's a life lesson about not fucking with random strangers and not venting your personal anger on someone you don't know. Panhandlers, for whatever flaws they have, are human beings. As a rule of thumb, about nine in ten are dealing with mental disorders and/or substance abuse problems. In those cases, just handing them money simply pushes them a little further along into self destructive behavior. At the shelter I worked at, we advised people: Give them crackers, give them an apple, or give them a flyer to a homeless shelter program, but don't give them money.

A large number of those with mental disorders are under prescription for regulatory meds, like psychotropics, that have been misprescribed by an overwhelmed public mental health system that lacks to resources & personnel to really treat every patient the way they need it. Such people often fail to properly take their meds in the right routine and then end up self medicating with street drugs, cheaper the better, with the dollars and change they've been handed. It's heartbreaking to work with this population because there's just so much pain and misdirected efforts at dealing with it out on our streets.

If you're inclined to hand things to panhandlers, I recommend carrying a few health bars or granola bars in your pockets to hand over. They can't sell that for rock or a bottle of Mad Dog. For those really seeking daily sustenance, this is what they need.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Have Interracted With The Homeless Hundreds Of Times And Given Them What Little Money I Could

I don't think an apple or a granola bar will do it for a young woman and her child.

[renate]

50. it's interesting to hear this from somebody who's worked with this population

What would the rate of recovery from their addiction be if people didn't give them money? If the odds are against them anyway, could it be more respectful of their autonomy to give them money than to decide for them that they will be eating a protein bar for lunch? Ideally, I suppose, it would be great to offer to take them out for a hot meal so they can choose what to eat, but for time and, frankly, boundary and safety issues, that's not an option for a lot of us, although I certainly admire the people who do that. And if someone doesn't seem to be in an altered state of consciousness, would your advice change? What percentage of panhandlers are disabled and simply trying to raise a little money to afford a place to live?

(My questions might sound snotty but I honestly don't them it to; I'm genuinely curious and eager to pick the brain of somebody who knows about this issue and seems to be very concerned and frustrated by the inadequacy of the current system of caring for this population. If you think that giving a homeless person money is simply enabling them to continue with a self-destructive habit that they would otherwise try to stop, that is useful information. I would sure like to think that any money I give someone is going to help them rather than hurt them and if I'm wrong I'd like to know. Thanks!)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. If Somebody Is That Close To Rock Bottom My Giving Them A Few Bucks Isn't Going To Hurt Them.

And many of the homeless I see have their spouses/partners/and or children with them.

[JHB]

24. Just another day among the elite, if you ask Newt. n/t

[JitterbugPerfume]

26. As you do unto the least of them

you do unto me---Jesus

Remember him? This Atheist pinko does !

[raccoon]

28. That woman who mocked her must be a real mean-spirited person. Guess she won't do that any more. nt

[AngryAmish]

42. THis is another reason not to ride the subway - warning, nudity

&feature=player_embedded

[Iggo]

43. Don't mock panhandlers at all.

They're tougher than you think, and they have way less to lose than you do.

Just let it go.

[snooper2]

45. straphanger?

We don't have those round' these parts LOL

[baldguy]

47. What sort of lowlife would mock another human being just because she's a panhandler?

[slackmaster]

48. So, it's OK to refer to her as a panhandler, vagrant, or beggar woman, but not to mock her

I get it.

[closeupready]

52. It's not okay to pull a knife, but what a freaking idiot she was.

Yeah, try and make someone down on their luck feel even worse about themselves, and see what that gets you and how they react to YOU.