All this "discussion" about stopping NSA spying...

[Atman]

...just makes me think it is NSA-backed bullshit. Remember when BushCo said "oops, sorry!" and said they would stop it?

Fool me once...won't get fooled again.

It's a song and dance. No one is stopping anything. Spying has turned into a multi-multi billion dollar industry (mostly of cronies), and nobody walks away from the kind of money and power involved. Nobody.

Give up your fantasy that we can stop it. And wave hello to Agent Mike. He's part of the family now. The creepy cousin who rifles through your medicine cabinets and nightstands and reads your diary.

Hi, Mike!

[leftstreet]

1. I hope this thread doesn't BOMB

Follow the money...

[Atman]

3. You said bomb!

The lights are flashing at headquarters!

[mick063]

2. This is about profit for sure

But we do trade with the world and the world isn't taking kindly to it.

Further, spying at this magnitude is cumbersome. There are hundreds of Snowdens out there and until the process can be automated to the point that a small group can have exclusive access, there will be leaks. A continuous flow of leaks. Hence, the major diplomatic and propaganda campaign against Snowden. This is why they want him so bad. To make an example of him.

Future leakers will plan accordingly. Perhaps anonymous disclosure through released documents and third parties. Perhaps opposition politicians like Issa (those that love to create never ending investigations for political purposes) arranging immunity or reduced sentences. Perhaps seeking asylum arrangements before disclosure and as the world becomes increasingly annoyed at the blanket surveillance, the asylum arrangements easier to acquire. Perhaps disclosure not to the public, but to annoyed "friendly" governments that will pay for such "services" and keep identities secret.

[leveymg]

4. Sure, but we can make it less lucrative for the bastard. Mike, you can buy the beer from now on.

[rhett o rick]

5. The NSA and Booz-Allen arent going to stop what they do. They might paint it a new color but that's

the best you can expect.

[Lonr]

8. They likely won't stop voluntarily

we may have to force the issue...

[rhett o rick]

10. Who is this "we" you are referring to? The left? We cant even get the apologists

here in DU to recognize the problem let alone the Republicans of the 99%.

[Atman]

11. Exactly!

Of the last two people to come forward, one is hiding in a locker in a Russian airport, the other just got sentenced to 127 years in maximum security. Combine this with constant surveillance cameras everywhere, the crackdowns on Occupy, etc, etc, etc...who do you honestly expect is going to give up their jobs, their lives, their families to fight the most sophisticated government tyranny in history? Run out in your driveway and flip a bird at the sky...maybe a drone camera will catch it, and you'll get targeted later.

I'm far from a "DU Apologist." But what, exactly, am I supposed to do tomorrow? Kiss the family goodbye and hope I don't get waterboarded? Honestly, we're just not at that point yet. Yet.

Yes, people are getting pissed off. The nation's tummy is rumbling. But we're a generation away from the big uprising so many envision, on the right or left. I believe it will happen. I just don't know who is going to start it. I don't know who will be the blue or the grey. But you're delusional if you think fat, stupid Americans are going to git up from Honey Boo Boo and The Kardashians and risk their $7.25/hr jobs at the 7-11 to fight the government. Hell, they don't even know anything is going on!

[backscatter712]

6. Beware of learned helplessness.

It's one of the tactics that the manipulators use to keep us compliant.

"Ooh, they're too big! There's too much money involved! They've got an army of stormtroopers! They've got a Stasi that listens to everything we do!"

The East German Stasi fell. As did the Soviet Union. Pinochet was deposed, so was Mubarak, and Gadaffi. The worst, most powerful bastards in the world can't stand against the people when they stand together and demand justice and freedom.

But if you give up, they win. Thus many of the tactics that tyrannical regimes use are psychologically designed to get people to give up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Learned Helplessness is the condition of a human or animal that has learned to behave helplessly, failing to respond even though there are opportunities for it to help itself by avoiding unpleasant circumstances or by gaining positive rewards. Learned Helplessness theory is the view that clinical depression and related mental illnesses may result from a perceived absence of control over the outcome of a situation.[1] Organisms that have been ineffective and less sensitive in determining the consequences of their behavior are defined as having acquired Learned Helplessness.[2]

...

Summary[edit|edit source]
In the learned helplessness experiment an animal is repeatedly hurt by an adverse stimulus which it cannot escape.

Eventually the animal will stop trying to avoid the pain and behave as if it is utterly helpless to change the situation.

Finally, when opportunities to escape are presented, this learned helplessness prevents any action. The only coping mechanism the animal uses is to be stoical and put up with the discomfort, not expending energy getting worked up about the adverse stimulus.

[Th1onein]

7. Absolutely correct.

[Atman]

9. Damn...what's the point in even responding?

Seriously, though...good points.