Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:53 AM Jul 2013

Federal Reserve Refuses to Submit to an Audit of Germany’s Gold Held in U.S. Vaults

The German government has been storing about half of its gold supply with the US FED, apparently in the NYC FED vaults. Germany decided to bring home all its gold, but the FED has said that isn’t possible to do, and it would need until 2020 to be able to accomplish the transfer.

The German government then asked to visit the FED vaults to inventory the gold and determine its actual existence, but the FED refused to permit Germany to examine its own gold. The reasons given were “security” and “no room for visitors”. And nothing else.

Germany did finally send some staff to the FED, and they were permitted only into the vault’s anteroom where they were shown 5 or 6 gold bars as representative of their holdings, and were permitted nothing else.

They apparently came a second time, and the FED did open only one of 9 rooms and let the Germans look at the stack of gold, but were not permitted to either enter or touch. And they returned home.


http://nsnbc.me/2013/04/18/federal-reserve-refuses-to-submit-to-an-audit-of-germanys-gold-held-in-u-s-vaults-2/

60 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Federal Reserve Refuses to Submit to an Audit of Germany’s Gold Held in U.S. Vaults (Original Post) Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 OP
This could be an international incident nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #1
The Banking systems of the world Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #5
I'm scared germany might turn their wind farms on us. mathematic Jul 2013 #11
Why the personal attack? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #31
Not a PA. A reminder about overreactions. mathematic Jul 2013 #37
Wut? Dash87 Jul 2013 #40
Nope, I did not nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #44
That's M&W's Fumesucker Jul 2013 #55
Theft. There's no other word for that. DetlefK Jul 2013 #2
Watch from the CBC:the secret world of gold Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #3
Why was part of it censored? GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #4
It validated the truth of the whistle blower Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #6
Hmm GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #8
You haven't watch SHIT...... its 40 mins long Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #15
Why are you angry that I'd prefer to watch the whole thing? GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #21
The Canadian Broadcasting System Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #22
Canada is under NorthCom GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #25
Its on Pirate Bay Go Vols Jul 2013 #46
If that gold is gone this will lead to a run on the bank by foreign investers. Very bad move on the jwirr Jul 2013 #7
I"ve reported for many years on DU Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #10
It Would Be nice To See An Actual Source for This, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2013 #9
CNBC? I'm not your search monkey Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #12
Then If You Have A Real Source, Sir, Put That Up The Magistrate Jul 2013 #14
Once again nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #19
What Do You Think That Site Is, Ma'am? The Magistrate Jul 2013 #24
Why don't you do something useful nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #26
Here Is The Only 'Source' Offered, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #27
If you are truly interested nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #29
see post 13 n/t Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #20
You did not follow the link provided Sir nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #13
Thanks.... I did report on this when it broke Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #17
I Read The Thing, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2013 #18
You were provided a link nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #23
another source, no clue how reputable it is: steve2470 Jul 2013 #28
On The Page You Link To, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2013 #36
it's in the middle of the page, it is hard to find steve2470 Jul 2013 #42
Still Not Sourced, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2013 #49
yes, I think this story is more of a rumor than an actual event steve2470 Jul 2013 #50
Devils advocate, knowing the US media, nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #51
One expects, Sir, It Would At Least Make The German Press The Magistrate Jul 2013 #52
never underestimate the powers of search engines reorg Jul 2013 #59
If You Had Actually Contributed Something, Sir, Your Attitude Might Be Justified The Magistrate Jul 2013 #60
This message was self-deleted by its author Jesus Malverde Jul 2013 #16
This is a classic example Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #30
Yep. sufrommich Jul 2013 #53
Why Germany wants its 674 tons of gold back (article from January) steve2470 Jul 2013 #32
That Article, Sir, Accurately Reports Germany Wants To Repatriate Its Gold The Magistrate Jul 2013 #41
OK here is the WP. NYTs and others Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #33
Where in those links does it say the Fed refused to submit to an audit? Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #35
Neither Article, Sir, Says The Federal Reserve Refused To Account For it The Magistrate Jul 2013 #45
Iching? You there? Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #54
Further proof the mysterious Anunnaki have been sucking gold away from earth for over 430,000 years Brother Buzz Jul 2013 #34
Aren't those the Indians who went extinct out in New Mexico or somewhere? 1-Old-Man Jul 2013 #58
This is CT woo. The only sites reporting this sufrommich Jul 2013 #38
Is Der Spiegel CT woo? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #39
Nobody is denying the fact that Germany wants its gold repatriated Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #43
What the hell? Did you even bother reading sufrommich Jul 2013 #47
Yup, of course...I love the attacks nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #48
I'd look for the gold under Allan Greedspin's bed... Hubert Flottz Jul 2013 #56
If this is true the international price of gold is going to skyrocket. Anybody want to get rich? 1-Old-Man Jul 2013 #57

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
5. The Banking systems of the world
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jul 2013

are playing games. The US says it will take 7 years to return germany's gold.

Its a tough job.

The CBC documentary explains a lot but is missing about 10 mins which is even more damaging which can be found elsewhere......on line.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
31. Why the personal attack?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:49 PM
Jul 2013

Goodbye


I really have no patience for people who need to engage in personal attacks.

Welcome to my ignore list

mathematic

(1,439 posts)
37. Not a PA. A reminder about overreactions.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:53 PM
Jul 2013

You overreacted about wind farms, just like you've overreacted about warehouse auditing minutiae (of all things).

Obviously, this message is intended for anybody else reading this subthread.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
2. Theft. There's no other word for that.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:10 PM
Jul 2013

They used other people's property as collateral for investments and gambling.

I wonder what the Fed is gonna do when they can't get back the original gold bars with the original serial numbers.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
3. Watch from the CBC:the secret world of gold
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:11 PM
Jul 2013



part of it was censored that is not on youtube.


the gold held by the Bank of Canada, the Bank of England, the Federal Reserve and Fort Knox is gone — that for every 100 ounces of gold traded, there exists only one ounce of real, physical gold. So, where is the gold — and who really owns it?



Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
15. You haven't watch SHIT...... its 40 mins long
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:34 PM
Jul 2013

I just posted it.

The documentary you see is enough to question reality.

 

GiaGiovanni

(1,247 posts)
21. Why are you angry that I'd prefer to watch the whole thing?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:38 PM
Jul 2013

There's a lot of questionable stuff out there on the net. It would be nice to have the complete version.

 

GiaGiovanni

(1,247 posts)
25. Canada is under NorthCom
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:45 PM
Jul 2013

Not that this directly affects media up there, but you can't assume a source is clean anymore.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
7. If that gold is gone this will lead to a run on the bank by foreign investers. Very bad move on the
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:21 PM
Jul 2013

part of the feds.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
10. I"ve reported for many years on DU
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:29 PM
Jul 2013

on the FEDs and loans to banks before the fall
which I said was fishy to worrisome.

I use to post those in LBNs which were just a back news story which I was paying attention to.... I no longer have a star so the search for me doesn't work.


The Feds I consider a non democratic institution.

Gold is a con man's game just ask glen beck.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
26. Why don't you do something useful
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:45 PM
Jul 2013

And search the google if you are truly interested in the story? You can be all kinds of a 19th century pretend don't know how to search the web

Once again, point your browser to google, and enter the string "Germany and gold reserves and audit" if you are truly interested.

The OP provided you a link. Many a times here, I have found a story and proceeded to do just that, search the web. Try that.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
23. You were provided a link
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:40 PM
Jul 2013

When I am more interested in a story, which you obviously are, I use a search string in google. You might want to try that.

Granted, it happened yesterday with a local series of claims, and that is rare...I came up with goose eggs in the English press...but I found info in the Spanish press.

You are interested use the following search Boolean string, "federal reserve gold and Germany."

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
36. On The Page You Link To, Sir
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:53 PM
Jul 2013

I am unable to find any mention of the Federal Reserve refusing to account for Germany's gold.

Perhaps I over-looked something?

There is an ancillary link in which a crank complains the Bank of England did not reply to an accusation he made in a manner which gratified him, but that is not something else....

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
42. it's in the middle of the page, it is hard to find
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jul 2013
Germany recently requested the return of their gold from the Federal Reserve Bank in New York but was told they would have to wait seven years to get a portion (only 300 tons) of it. It is clear there is more to the story – and the obvious conclusion is that the Federal Reserve Bank can’t easily return what it no longer possesses. In non-banking circles, this could be called theft or embezzlement, but in the banking world it is called “leasing” or rehypothecation, and it is legal.


That's their version of the OP.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
49. Still Not Sourced, Sir
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:09 PM
Jul 2013

It is in the author's comment on this article:

http://www.sprott.com/markets-at-a-glance/do-western-central-banks-have-any-gold-left/

This article contains no mention of the matter, though it speculates little gold is actually held in many central banks.

The claim the Federal Reserve would not account for Germany's gold remains without source but 'bearcanada' in Shanghai.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
50. yes, I think this story is more of a rumor than an actual event
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:11 PM
Jul 2013

I would think (call me naive) that if the Federal Reserve actually did that, it would have been reported in the MSM corporate media. Controversy sells ads.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
51. Devils advocate, knowing the US media,
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jul 2013

This has a better chance to be on Project Censored list to be honest

reorg

(3,317 posts)
59. never underestimate the powers of search engines
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 05:12 PM
Jul 2013

If instead of moaning and complaining you would put in the words "gold federal reserve bundesbank" at https://duckduckgo.com you'd get a number of links within seconds, among which are the following (on the first page of results).

Strict Security

As a result, in addition to safeguarding the reserves of over 60 countries, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York continues to hold 1,536 metric tons of German gold -- or nearly half of Berlin's reserves. This enormous hoard of gold is stored in the fifth subfloor of the bank's building on Liberty Street, 25 meters (80 feet) below street level, and 15 meters below sea level. According to the bank's website, the vault rests on the bedrock of Manhattan Island.

...

Finally, in 2007, "following numerous enquiries," Bundesbank staff members were allowed to see the facility, but they reportedly only made it to the anteroom of the German reserves.

In fact, auditors from the Bundesbank made a second visit in May 2011. This time one of the nine compartments was also opened, in which the German gold bars are densely stacked. A few were pulled out and weighed. But this part of the report has been blacked out -- out of consideration for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-politicians-demand-to-see-gold-in-us-federal-reserve-a-864068.html


The Bundesbank's overall reserves of 3,400 tons are worth about $200 billion at current market rates.

The central bank now plans to bring back to Germany some of the 1,500 tons of gold stored in the vaults of the Federal Reserve in New York, and all of the 450 tons currently stashed with the Bank of France in Paris, according to Handelsblatt.

The central bank declined to comment on the report but on Wednesday will present a new plan to manage the gold reserves of 270,000 gold bars, the world's second-largest stockpile trailing only the U.S. reserves.

... the central bank came under pressure last year when Germany's independent Federal Auditors' Office last year concluded it failed to properly oversee its gold reserves. The auditor suggested the central bank should carry out regular inspections of the gold held abroad to verify its book value or change the reserves' management.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34227_162-57564116/report-germany-to-recover-gold-reserves-from-n.y-fed/


... to allay audit office concerns, the Bundesbank is to make arrangements to repatriate some of Germany's gold reserves and test the gold for purity. The Bundesbank has agreed to ship 150 tons of gold currently stored at the New York Federal Reserve to Germany. Over the next three years 50 tons of gold per year are to exit storage and be returned to Germany reports German daily Bild. The repatriated gold will be melted down entirely to test the overall purity of each consignment before being re-cast into standard gold bars.

German concerns mounted earlier this year after a delegation of German federal politicians requested an inspection of German gold reserves stored at the Banque de France, France's central bank, in Paris. The group were turned away by officials who said there were no visiting facilities at their vaults said Deutsche Welle, in an earlier report.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/335664#ixzz2aZ6yPoYs

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
60. If You Had Actually Contributed Something, Sir, Your Attitude Might Be Justified
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 05:43 PM
Jul 2013

But you have not.

The first article has previously been posted here.

The second adds nothing new.

The third establishes that a 'no visitors' policy is general, and so further undercuts the claim in the OP, that some special skullduggery is a'foot at the Federal Reserve vaults.

The article linked to at the head of this thread is a grotesque exaggeration, serving as a lead in to claims central banks in the US and Europe actually hold no gold.

If the intent was to inform people about German policy towards its gold reserves abroad, it is obvious that links to real news reports could have been provided.

Instead, a link to a site specializing in high-test woo was presented.

Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
30. This is a classic example
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:47 PM
Jul 2013

of horseshit that is poorly sourced.

Been seeing a lot of this on DU lately, as if there is some sort of challenge to Infowars' monopoly on batshit crazy.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
41. That Article, Sir, Accurately Reports Germany Wants To Repatriate Its Gold
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:56 PM
Jul 2013

It does not say the Federal Reserve will not account for it.

Brother Buzz

(36,440 posts)
34. Further proof the mysterious Anunnaki have been sucking gold away from earth for over 430,000 years
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:52 PM
Jul 2013

I heard all about them on Coast to Coast last night. First class entertainment.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2013/07/29

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
38. This is CT woo. The only sites reporting this
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:53 PM
Jul 2013

are conspiracy theory sites like "NSNBC" which is also reporting that "Gardasil Destroys Girl’s Ovaries: Research on Ovaries Never Considered" and that "Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death".

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
43. Nobody is denying the fact that Germany wants its gold repatriated
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jul 2013

The point of the OP and a question a lot of people have is whether or not the Fed refused to submit to an audit and gave Germany the middle finger.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
47. What the hell? Did you even bother reading
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:07 PM
Jul 2013

your own links? The Spiegel article even calls it conspiracy theory crap:

Such intense secrecy fuels legends. Many conspiracy theorists have suspected for decades that the German gold has long since disappeared. Others believe that it has been lent out. They contend that there are only promissory notes of little worth stored in the bank's vaults.

Another myth that has been making the rounds in nationalist-oriented German circles is that the US refused to hand over the treasure and threatened during the Cold War to withdraw its troops from Germany if the Germans demanded their gold back. Former Bundesbank head Karl Blessing, according to the theory, had to provide the US written confirmation that he would never do such a thing.

This letter, as it happens, actually exists, as Blessing confirmed in his last interview with SPIEGEL in 1971 -- except it doesn't concern the German gold, but rather US gold reserves. Until 1971, every dollar could be exchanged for the precious metal. Blessing thus promised the US Federal Reserve that he would no longer convert the colossal German dollar reserves to gold because this would have caused the currency's value to plummet.


You're confusing Germany debating whether it would be better off keeping their reserves in Germany with the Fed refusing to hand over the gold. The latter is nonsense.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
48. Yup, of course...I love the attacks
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:08 PM
Jul 2013

Yes I read them...

Have a good long day. I am done. With you on bth is thread

Hubert Flottz

(37,726 posts)
56. I'd look for the gold under Allan Greedspin's bed...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 03:16 PM
Jul 2013

Along with all the wall street money that just vanished in 2008.

1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
57. If this is true the international price of gold is going to skyrocket. Anybody want to get rich?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 04:45 PM
Jul 2013

Now would be the time. That is of course if you believe the US has stolen Germany's gold and somehow sold it on the black market without it being noticed.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Federal Reserve Refuses t...