Do you feel safer because George Zimmerman is criscrossing the United States with a gun?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16 votes, 7 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	3 (19%)
	No
	13 (81%)
	7 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[xoom]

1. Should have had the option of feel less safe or something

Edit: spelling

[Pelican]

2. How about a "Doesn't affect me either way" option?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. You can start your own poll./nt

[noiretextatique]

8. clearly, you are not a black teenager

Nor the parent or relative of one. Explains a lot.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. +1

Stay tuned for another episode of Lifestyles of the Clueless and Insulated.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. this

[Boudica the Lyoness]

64. As a parent of a former black teenager

(now an man in his late 30's) I'm not jumping on your race baiting bandwagon.

[noiretextatique]

66. oh please

go sell that fairy tale elsewhere.

[Duckhunter935]

9. That is how I feel, 1 vote for this option

[Heidi]

11. Yet some say white privilege doesn't exist. (nt)

[rl6214]

36. What white privlege?

[Heidi]

38. The privelige of not having to be concerned

about being shot for being other than white. _That_ white privilege.

[rl6214]

40. Plenty of white people get shot every day

Google it, you ll find it.

[Heidi]

42. Very few white folks get shot simply because their whiteness makes people irrationally fearful. (nt)

[rl6214]

44. Can you prove this

Or that non whites get shot because they aren't white or are you just baiting?

[Heidi]

45. Why, yes. Yes, I can.

Perhaps you are familiar with the FBI's Uniform Crime Report. This is what it says about hate crime incidents in 2010:

Racial bias
Among the single-bias hate crime incidents in 2010, there were 3,949 victims of racially
motivated hate crime. A closer examination of these victim data showed that:
• 70.0 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
• 17.7 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.
• 5.1 percent were victims of an anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias.
• 1.2 percent were victims of an anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native bias.

According to the same report:
Crimes against persons
Law enforcement reported 4,824 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By
offense type:
• 46.2 percent were intimidation.
• 34.8 percent were simple assault.
• 18.4 percent were aggravated assault.
• 0.2 percent consisted of 7 murder and nonnegligent manslaughters and 4 forcible
rapes.
• 0.3 percent involved the offense category other, which is collected only in the
National Incident-Based Reporting System.

If you'll scroll up to my original comment in this thread, you'll see that white privilege -- not guns specifically -- was my original point. It's pretty clear from the DOJ/FBI statistics that there are far more victims of anti-black bias than victims of anti-white bias. That's a privilege we white folks share.

ETA (you're welcome):

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. ...

[pipi_k]

55. Well how about

male privilege?

Of any color.

The privilege of not having to be concerned about being mugged or raped for being a woman.

this just happened recently in my state...

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/08/da_dna_links_suspect_to_amy_lord_murder


So yeah...while people are running around shitting their pants over George Zimmerman, guys like Edwin Alemany are slipping under the radar, killing innocent women on the street just as dead as Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin.

Only we won't know who they are until after more women die. At least people know who George Zimmerman is, and can cross the street if they see him coming in their direction.

So. As a white woman, I don't feel any more privileged than my black and brown:

cousins, step-son-in-law, great niece, and good friends' adopted children.

[Heidi]

56. There are many who don't believe male privilege exists any more than white privilege.

They're wrong, in my opinion and experience.

[pipi_k]

61. Well then...

I guess one has to be one of the unprivileged groups in order to know it exists, both in their own group, and in the other group.

As a woman, I know for a fact that white privilege exists...

[magical thyme]

57. here are some pix

It pisses me off that the article included a large pic of the victim, but none of the suspect.

?c=45fc4e3d301e6abdd5065a437b1617b3

[pipi_k]

62. Huh...

yeah, I was looking for a photo of the suspect, but couldn't find one on the news stories I saw...

[DrDan]

29. I vote this option also

paranoia of the gun crowd seems to be spreading

[Scuba]

4. No, and I'm afraid to wear my hoodies too!

[99Forever]

5. Might I add...

... even more so, since now many other murdering scumbags, just like him, will be deciding to kill people with impunity and without consequences.

[onehandle]

6. I feel that he will end badly, sooner rather than later. nt

[cascadiance]

7. My guess is that he's feeling he's going to need it a lot more than he needed it before Trayvon...

Someone else might "stand their ground" with a gun instead of only having a bag of skittles next to him in the future and be well aware of his history.

[treestar]

10. And he's going nowhere in particular

Looking for some punks, I suppose. What a jerk.

[Sancho]

12. Yes, I feel safer now that he has left Florida!!!

That being said, I said for years that we need much tougher gun registration, licensing, and sales control (and I'm a gun owner). Nuts like Zimmerman should not have guns, and NO ONE should be walking around with a gun unless they are seriously trained and wearing a uniform.

[MrSlayer]

13. No. But I don't feel less safe either.

I couldn't care less where that asshole goes or what he does.

[branford]

14. Zimmerman is a nonentity.

Why would I feel any safer or more threatened? Cases like Zimmerman are very rare, and he is now a recognizable public figure. He realistically poses no threat to me or anyone else, and if I was threatened, I doubt very much he could be of any assistance.

Sadly, I believe that it is far more likely that some foolish or disturbed soul will violently confront Zimmerman seeking "justice," and it will result in the death or serious injury of both him and/or Zimmerman. In light of some recent news reports, I am also more concerned with individuals (of any race) falsely justifying interracial violence and other criminality on the Zimmerman case.

[Hoyt]

17. Many believed minorities would riot over verdict, the bigoted gun lovers were wrong.

The dangerous person is the one with a history of violence, including murdering Martin. Not to mention guns bolster his courage and he is on some serious medications.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. Three really good points!

[branford]

32. How do your statements address the OP or my comments?

I'm troubled that many of my fellow liberals at DU regularly engage in armchair psychology, knowingly misstate or ignore facts and evidence adduced at trial, and try to fit everything about the Zimmerman case into their preconceived political and cultural notions or pet topics. The death of Trayvon Martin was no doubt a terrible tragedy. However, I believe the hyperbole, threats, opportunism and irrationality by those who supposedly care about minority rights could set race relations back decades.

How does the ABSENCE of minority riots effect whether you are at greater or lesser risk because Zimmerman is free and legally armed? More importantly, how does it relate to my point that it is undisputed that INDIVIDUALS have in fact threatened Zimmerman, his family and his attorneys with physical harm? Reading many comments over the last few weeks by you and others would lead one to reasonably conclude that vigilantism is now acceptable at DU. Would it not be a tragedy if any person was needless injured or killed, regardless of whether it was Zimmerman, someone trying to "avenge" Trayvon Martin, or God forbid, innocent bystanders? Does more death and divisiveness equal justice for Trayvon?

Although I have only been posting here for short time, I am a long time reader. I am well aware that guns are a passionate issue that both divides the members of DU and the public at large from both political parties. However, if you goal is to change the culture of gun ownership in the United States, implying, or generally outright accusing, many millions of gun owners, including liberal democrats here at DU, of being bigots, killers, in need of or on medication, and other sundry and banal forms of criminality, sadism and evil, don't be surprised if those same individuals pay little heed to your lamentations, or worse, support legislation and candidates that not only seek to protect and expand gun rights, but also oppose other liberal social and financial issues of great import.

[Hoyt]

33. I'm addressing your post, "my fellow liberal."

You are the one that said Zman was in danger. Sounds to me that you are like those who predicted riots.

As far as I'm concerned, the real danger are/were friggin bigoted gun owners who supported Zman, and now Zman since he is running around the country looking for god knows what with his gun.

[branford]

34. I never expected any riots.

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2013, 10:41 AM - Edit history (1)

People may be passionate, but nevertheless are generally peaceful. I personally never expected riots. I am, however, always concerned about individuals committing foolish or criminal acts. This concern does not equate with unreasonable hyper-vigilance about George Zimmerman or anyone else. You appear to impute motives and beliefs to those who do not share all your prerogatives, particularly with respect to firearms.

I am an trial attorney who lives and works in NYC. Racial disparities in the criminal justice system are not only unacceptable morally and politically, they actually effect my livelihood. I do not "support" Zimmerman. He is basically a nonentity in my life. I will continue to go about my lawful business, enjoy life, and advocate my politics, including the end to racial disparities and discrimination in our country, with or without George Zimmerman.

You are correct that I am concerned that Zimmerman or others might be needlessly harmed as a result of the media attention to his case, even if I am not personally threatened. If an individual sought to avenge Trayvon Martin, and ended up killing or injuring himself, Zimmerman or other innocents, would this not also be cold-blooded murder and a tragedy no less warranting our attention that the death of Trayvon? I do not condone vigilantism and mourn all needless deaths, even if it was Zimmerman. I do not abandon my liberal values because I do not share common cause with or dislike the victim.

You appear fixated and obsessed about gun ownership, and grossly stereotype gun owners, including those here at DU who otherwise share your liberal political beliefs. As a politically active trial attorney, even under NYC's strict legal guidelines, I could likely obtain a permit to own or carry a gun. Nevertheless, I feel quite safe and do not own a gun nor wish to do so. I do, however, know a number of individuals of different genders, sizes, professions, ethnicities, races and religions, in and around the City, who own and carry guns. Most of these individuals are quite liberal, and none are bigoted, seek to harm others or otherwise conform to your redneck stereotype straight out of Deliverance. Many of these individuals, including myself, support additional restrictions on gun ownership such as expanded federal background checks. It is unfortunate that your aggressive posture, hyperbole and unwillingness to impart any form of humanity to those with whom you disagree in any way is exactly the type of attitude that forecloses any reasonable compromises with otherwise reasonable gun owners.

[pipi_k]

54. Your point about

the hyperbole surrounding Zimmerman being free with a gun is a good one, I think.

People go on all the time about "shiny objects" that distract the masses.

Well, George Zimmerman seems to be the latest shiny object.

Never mind the fact that there are perhaps thousands of other people out there just as sick/crazy as Zimmerman is...with or without a gun. Never mind the fact that some of them could be targeting children because they're children. Blacks because they're black. Women because they're women. And we don't even know who the hell they are.

At least the entire country...except those living in caves or under rocks...knows who George Zimmerman is, and his face is recognizable.

Let's see...one George Zimmerman we know vs. thousands of George Zimmermans we don't know.

The hyperbole over Zimmerman being loose is asinine, to say the least...

[rl6214]

37. You made three accusations and can't prove a single one.

[Hoyt]

41. Meds are a matter of record, other "accusations" are obvious except to Zman supporters, including

Those who contributed to his new gun fund.

[rl6214]

43. What meds

[michreject]

15. Neither safer nor threatened

There's enough people with illegally owned guns to give it any thought.

[Liberal In Texas]

16. It's unlikely he's still in Texas

after the video hit the internets and it was on the TV.
He could be anywhere by now.

[RebelOne]

18. I just hope he stays away from Georgia. n/t

[mountain grammy]

19. Maybe he'll end up in Russia with Snowden

the new right wing, homophobic and racist utopia.

[Bay Boy]

53. Is the take away here that.....

...Snowden is a right wing, racist homophobe?

[GreenStormCloud]

20. Neither. N/T

[Marrah_G]

21. I'm thinking he isn't going to come to MA

His having that handgun here would be illegal except in a few cases.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. I think he may be scouting out Texas as a state to move to. Having his guns

with him, being able to freely speed in his truck are all pluses for him to leave Florida.

[KharmaTrain]

23. As Long As He Stays 1,000 Miles From Me...

...that's fine with me. I'm betting this shitstain doesn't sleep well these days...a big reason he keeps "precious" nearby at all times. May he spend the rest of his life always looking over his shoulder...

[rrneck]

24. I don't give a shit one way or the other.

Now that butterfly flapping it's wings in Beijing makes me a little nervous.

[lynne]

25. I don't feel more or less safe. There are tons of people -

- crisscrossing the United States with guns. Some are doing it legally, some not. At least you know that he has one should you run into him. The others you've got no clue about.

[Aristus]

28. Shit.

That motherfucker's headed west.

Stay the fuck out of Washington State, you murdering dickbag.

[Liberal In Texas]

30. Wonder what he told his wife?

"Goin' out for a drive...see ya when I see ya..."

(She didn't appear to be in the truck.)

[pipi_k]

31. Don't feel

safe or unsafe.

I do, however, think that he's out there running scared, knowing that millions of people hate him, and that sometime...somewhere...he's going to end up shooting someone again.

Only next time I don't believe he'll get off.

[rl6214]

35. Makes absolutely no difference to me.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

39. Yes, I do - it shows that the rule of law can stand up to popular pressure.

It makes me worry less about being convicted without proof if enough people decide I should be.

[branford]

46. Amen!

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2013, 10:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Whether you agree or disagree with the Zimmerman verdict, our system worked as intended. The State zealously prosecuted its case, Zimmerman had competent defense counsel, witness were examined and cross-examined, evidence tested and a jury deliberated. The talking heads on television seeking ratings and revenue were irrelevant. As an attorney, when I speak to friends that are angered by the verdict, I remind them that if they were ever charged with a crime, this is exactly how they would want the system to operate. Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is not just for television and the movies. Moreover, a "not guilty" verdict does not always mean the defendant was "innocent," only that the State could not properly prove its case.

The above, however, is not a license to ignore racial (and economic) disparities in the system. Any system made and administered by men (and women) will be flawed. It is not incompatible to be glad the system worked, yet still not "support" Zimmerman and want the system to improve.

[GreenStormCloud]

51. Excellent post. N/T

[pipi_k]

65. For some time

after the OJ murder acquittal, I was really really pissed.

One day I came upon an opportunity to read a book by a well known attorney whose name I can't recall right now, but he's famous

Anyway, his book had much to do with the very thing you speak of...how the judicial system "worked" in that case.

I thought it was bullshit, but decided to read the book anyway out of curiosity...how did this jerk come to his conclusion, I wondered...

Well, at the end of it, I understood.

Anyone on the defendant side really should hope that the case will be tried and adjudicated based on facts...not emotion.

And if they want that for themselves...or someone they love...they probably might want to afford the same standards to everyone else, no matter how heinous the crime.

[DrDan]

52. amen

[olddots]

47. I feel he is desperate ,armed and dangerous

hopefully this will not end the way it appears to be going.

[ileus]

48. My EDC provides my own safety.

Sure it's only a 380 but I put my faith in it's ability to save lives if needed.

[Paladin]

49. "...I put my faith in it's ability to save lives..."

So is your little .380 going to save lives on its own? All by itself? Your "Every Day Carry" pistol isn't just another tool, like a hammer or a Waring blender?

Thanks for confirming something I've known for a long time regarding Gun Enthusiasts and how they really feel about their favorite things. I'm sure you and Mr. Zimmerman could have a nice conversation about this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

60. i feel angry that he was allowed by instituitionalized racism to be free, but i also realize

that i am not personally his target. i do worry for unarmed black youth who are anywhere near him and his ilk.

[Lizzie Poppet]

63. It doesn't effect my sense of safety one way or another.

Obviously.