Is the American Dream dead?

[Chico Man]

A co worker of mine came here from Egypt (he is a Coptic) 10 years ago - he had no college degree and couldn't speak English. He worked at a pizza restaurant, under the table, while learning English and attending a 4 year state school. He graduated and was lucky enough to get a chance of citizenship; he worked hard to get everything done for that and won citizenship. He wanted to be a software engineer, and although he was trained in college, it was still difficult to find a job.. but he did. And then he found another. And then another. And now he is a moderately paid engineer working for a large US corporation, and bought a modest house with a nice little yard for his wife and child (his wife is now attending school as well). He worked the evenings and weekends to refurbish his house and recently refinanced into a very attractive loan, reducing his stress and giving him comfort that I would say he has worked quite hard for.

We walk daily and discuss the turmoil in Egypt, where his parents and sister still live..

Is the American dream still alive?

[Cal Carpenter]

1. The glory of romanticized myths is that they can never die

[devils chaplain]

2. Just much diminished...

The dream now seems to just be a job and a house.

[Egalitarian Thug]

3. It never was.

At least not after about 1840. The Dream was always a fantasy, like a lottery, hardly anyone that plays, wins. Then the winner is held up as proof that the game is not a scam to attract more players so that the owners of the game are the only consistent winners.

[LisaLynne]

4. Anecdotal evidence really means nothing.

We can all find someone who succeeded, who was lucky enough to not get sick while they were being paid under the table with no health insurance, not to get injured on the job and let go, not to start working for a start up that failed, etc. I think that I myself am in some ways, at least right now while I am young(ish) and able to work, living a muted form of the American dream. I also worked my way through college, the first of my family to have a college degree. I was lucky enough to stay health throughout my entire 20s with no health insurance. Didn't go to the dentist, even. Sure as heck couldn't afford glasses, but at least my eye sight stayed decent. I had other medical issues that I was unable to get taken care of that impacted my life greatly, but hey, at least I could still work.

I have a house. I have a dog. I have a good job now, which I am in many ways lucky to have, because it's reasonably stable and pays ok, enough to live on. I really am not going to complain.

However, that doesn't mean that somehow that all negates all the people who do get sick, who live in more impoverished areas, who have family obligations that makes it impossible for them to go to school, for example. It doesn't negate that I've watch my brother struggle his entire life, trying to get an education, trying to raise a family, trying to keep a job when he gets laid off, they close down, they move away ... And even so, he could be much worse off.

Too much relies on luck and it doesn't have to be that way. We could do so much better in this country to provide opportunities for everyone, to cultivate our brightest, most engaged minds, no matter where they come from. We need to have health care be an option for all, so that even if you do get sick, it doesn't ruin your life or your chances. That is sorely lacking from the American Dream right now. So, yeah, I have all kinds of "success" stories, but I also have a lot that are not so lucky.

[Chico Man]

8. What is a dream?

Is it not in the eye of the beholder? Ask him, he will say it is very much alive.

We could also say we are lucky to not have been born in North Korea, or in Germany during WWII, maybe we are lucky to have been born at all..

[LisaLynne]

9. But see ... here's my problem with that ...

And I do honestly believe we should be grateful and thankful for the good things that we have. Every day. HOWEVER, at some point, that can be used against us. "Just be thankful you have a job" can turn into sweat shops and going back to the way labor was treated before unions. "At least you don't live in the middle east" is used all the time against women all the time when we try to fight for equal pay. "It's much worse in China" is used by our corporate overlords to try to keep us from questioning why they get so much and are allowed to pollute our earth.

[newfie11]

5. My question would be

Would your friend be able to attend college with today's tuition?

Is the American dream dead? Yes for some.
The free colleges in California allowed me and my brother to graduate.
This is not possible today.

Many blue collar jobs in the past allowed. On the job training that now require a degree.

[BlueJazz]

6. I personally don't believe the Dream is dead...it's just much harder to acquire. For example:

IF your co-worker would have had ANY number of cliches in his effort...he or his family was sick for a short time, the places where he worked went out of business and he had a hard time finding another job, he was stopped by a police person for being "different" and
a host of other mishaps, He would have lost his dream....quickly.

[Chico Man]

12. Not so sure about that

This fella has remarkable strength and determination.

[BlueJazz]

13. What you say is true but not all people have those remarkable traits or do have some sort of...

...even mild mental barriers.

BUT..I'm very glad your friend was able to complete his goal.

[liberal N proud]

7. To achieve the American Dream is as likely as winning the lottery

And for some it takes winning the lottery to achieve the dream.

[librechik]

10. it has been shackled and buried alive, guarded by pit bulls

apparently no one has the balls--er, I mean the votes-- to do the very simple things it would take to get things back on track.

[Chico Man]

11. Not a single rec?

Sad thing is, I bet it would march to the top if I told a horrible story of how my friends life was destroyed by the corporate oligarchy in some way.

We celebrate failure, we ignore success.