Guardian's former Moscow correspondent on "Russia’s treatment of its own whistle-blowers" (updated)

[ProSense]

Last edited Thu Aug 1, 2013, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Vladimir Putin’s decision to grant Snowden asylum is a "humiliating, wounding rebuff to America's attempts to 'reset' relations with Russia", writes my colleague Luke Harding, former Moscow correspondent for the Guardian:

In theory Snowden has been allowed to stay for one year. In reality he is learning Russian and ploughing his way through Doystoyevsky. Snowden’s stay in Russia could be indefinite.

Among other things, the Snowden story has exposed the impotence of twenty-first century US power. With no US-Russia extradition treaty there is little the White House can do to winkle Snowden out. It can, of course, express displeasure. Obama is likely to cancel a trip in September to Saint Petersburg for Russia’s forthcoming G20 summit.

The irony, as Senator John McCain was quick to point out, is that Moscow’s record on human rights and freedom of speech is far worse than Washington’s. While Snowden was stuck at the airport, the opposition leader Alexei Navalny got five years in jail. (Navalny was promptly bailed following his provincial show trial, apparently amid Kremlin in-fighting.)

Since returning for a third time as president, Putin has moved to crush mass protests against his rule. They began in late 2011-2012. He has introduced a series of repressive new laws against human rights organisations, selectively arrested leading critics, and jailed the feminist punk combo Pussy Riot.

Russia’s treatment of its own whistle-blowers, meanwhile, is grim and awful. (Think Anna Politkovskaya, shot dead in Moscow in 2006, or Natalia Estemirova, kidnapped in Chechnya’s capital Grozny in 2009 and murdered.) Last month (July 11) Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who exposed massive interior ministry fraud, was himself convicted of crimes. Magnitsky was an unusual defendant: he was already dead.

Luke has plenty of experience of the intricacies of being allowed, or not being allowed, into Russia. It's worth reading his full piece, which will be published shortly.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/01/edward-snowden-leaves-moscow-airport-live#block-51fa8f4be4b09fe7db8e242d

From the link embedded at the original, a 2011 report:

Guardian's Moscow correspondent expelled from Russia

Luke Harding's removal thought to be the first of a British staff journalist from the country since end of cold war

Dan Sabbagh

The Guardian's Moscow correspondent has been expelled from Russia, in what is believed to be the first removal of a British staff journalist from the country since the end of the cold war.

Luke Harding's forced departure comes after the newspaper's reporting of the WikiLeaks cables, where he reported on allegations that Russia under the rule of Vladimir Putin had become a "virtual mafia state".

The journalist flew back to Moscow at the weekend after a two-month stint reporting on the contents of the leaked US diplomatic cables from London, but was refused entry when his passport was checked on his arrival.

After spending 45 minutes in an airport cell, he was sent back to the UK on the first available plane – with his visa annulled and his passport only returned to him after taking his seat. Harding was given no specific reason for the decision, although an airport security official working for the Federal Border Service, an arm of the FSB intelligence agency, told him: "For you Russia is closed."

- more -

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/feb/07/guardian-moscow-correspondent-expelled-from-russia

Updated to add:

<...>

Lyudmila Alexeyeva, a veteran of Russia's human rights movement and head of the respected Moscow Helsinki Group, welcomed the news on asylum for Snowden, but added that his quest for freedom of information has landed him in a country that has little respect for that and other freedoms.

"Having fought for the freedom and rights, Snowden has ended up in a country that cracks down on them," Alexeyeva said, according to the Interfax news agency.

Rachel Denber of Human Rights Watch sounded a similar note. "He cannot but be aware of the unprecedented crackdown on human rights that the government has unleashed in the past 15 months," Denber said in an e-mailed comment.

Putin has launched a wide-ranging crackdown on dissent since his inauguration for a third presidential term in May 2012, with the Kremlin-controlled parliament stamping a series of laws that introduced heavy fines for participants in unsanctioned protests, imposed new tough restrictions on non-government organizations.

- more -
http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-leaves-airport-russia-grants-154431899.html

Fugitive Snowden slips out of Moscow airport for 'secure' base (updated)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023384887

[Wilms]

1. After reading that I realized we should shred the 4th Amendment.

What we we do without ya, Pro?

[ProSense]

2. I read it and that never came to my mind.

I guess you see things differently.

So, what's your opinion of Russia?

[Wilms]

5. Russia's treatment of gays stinks...

...as much as ours continues to in many states, and our treatment of Manning.

Got it?

Now about that 4th Ammendment thing...

[ProSense]

6. What about Russia whistleblowers? n/t

[reformist2]

23. This is just sad.

[Cha]

52. Yes, it's horribly "sad" about the Human Rights Violations in Russia

U.S. Penalizes Russians for Human Rights Violations

"The Obama administration barred 18 Russians from traveling to the United States and froze any assets they may have here under a new law intended to punish human rights violations. A handful of other more highly placed officials, including the head of the Russian region of Chechnya, were put on a list not publicly revealed. Russian officials promised to ban a like number of Americans."

"The public sanctions targeted largely midlevel officials but the classified list included Ramzan A. Kadyrov, the president of Chechnya, a Kremlin ally known as a ruthless ruler, according to people briefed on the list. Others on the secret list were figures of such prominence in Russia that the administration feared identifying them might invite retaliation by President Vladimir V. Putin against similarly situated American officials like members of Congress."

Of the 18 Russians identified on the unclassified list, all but two are tied to the death of Sergei L. Magnitsky, the lawyer for Mr. Browder who was investigating official corruption only to be arrested and die in custody in 2009. His death became a cause célèbre for Russia critics, and the American sanctions law was named for him.

Among those targeted Friday were investigators, tax officials, judges and prison supervisors connected to Mr. Magnitsky’s case. The other two were Chechens implicated in prominent murders: Lecha Bogatirov, accused of gunning down Umar S. Israilov, a Chechen dissident, on the streets of Vienna in 2009, and Kazbek Dukuzov, accused of murdering the American journalist Paul Klebnikov in Moscow in 2004.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20130412.aspx

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/13/world/europe/us-issues-penalties-against-russians-for-rights-violations.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Uncle Joe]

39. They will be safe here so long as they don't whistle-blow against the U.S.

I was always hoping we as a nation could be better than Russia or China.

[Cha]

49. We are. Russia has a long list of Human Rights abuses.

[Mojorabbit]

50. So do we. nt

[Cha]

53. Stack them up against Russia's. I'll take

living the USA.

U.S. Penalizes Russians for Human Rights Violations

"The Obama administration barred 18 Russians from traveling to the United States and froze any assets they may have here under a new law intended to punish human rights violations. A handful of other more highly placed officials, including the head of the Russian region of Chechnya, were put on a list not publicly revealed. Russian officials promised to ban a like number of Americans."

"The public sanctions targeted largely midlevel officials but the classified list included Ramzan A. Kadyrov, the president of Chechnya, a Kremlin ally known as a ruthless ruler, according to people briefed on the list. Others on the secret list were figures of such prominence in Russia that the administration feared identifying them might invite retaliation by President Vladimir V. Putin against similarly situated American officials like members of Congress."

Of the 18 Russians identified on the unclassified list, all but two are tied to the death of Sergei L. Magnitsky, the lawyer for Mr. Browder who was investigating official corruption only to be arrested and die in custody in 2009. His death became a cause célèbre for Russia critics, and the American sanctions law was named for him.

Among those targeted Friday were investigators, tax officials, judges and prison supervisors connected to Mr. Magnitsky’s case. The other two were Chechens implicated in prominent murders: Lecha Bogatirov, accused of gunning down Umar S. Israilov, a Chechen dissident, on the streets of Vienna in 2009, and Kazbek Dukuzov, accused of murdering the American journalist Paul Klebnikov in Moscow in 2004.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20130412.aspx

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/13/world/europe/us-issues-penalties-against-russians-for-rights-violations.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



"WASHINGTON -- Activists, Russian-Americans, and other concerned citizens held small demonstrations in front of Russia's missions in Washington and New York on July 31 to protest the country's rapidly deteriorating record on gay rights.

About 20 people rallied in front of Moscow's embassy in Washington, with some chanting, "Gay rights! Human rights!" over a megaphone in the direction of the imposing, gray edifice.

Others waved rainbow flags and held posters documenting the recent uptick in homophobic attacks in Russia.

One protester held a sign that read, "Russian state policy: A good gay is a dead gay."

The demonstration was organized in part by the Washington-based Spectrum Human Rights group, which recently helped publicize a spate of extreme gay bullying in Russia's Sverdlovsk region."

More..
http://www.rferl.org/content/protests-russia-gay-rights-washington-new-york-vodka-putin/25062837.html

[Mojorabbit]

54. Never said they did not have huge issues. We have a very bloody history

and still have plenty of issues of our own.

[Cha]

56. Russia has many more..

(Moscow) – The Russian government has unleashed a crackdown on civil society in the year since Vladimir Putin’s return to the presidency that is unprecedented in the country’s post-Soviet history.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/04/24/russia-worst-human-rights-climate-post-soviet-era

Dead Lawyer, a Kremlin Critic, Is Found Guilty of Tax Evasion

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/world/europe/russian-court-convicts-a-kremlin-critic-posthumously.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Oh yeah, it goes on and on..

"Russian Mayor, an Opposition Figure, Is Arrested"
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/world/europe/russian-mayor-an-opposition-figure-is-arrested.html?_r=0

Russian police detain dozens after clashes during gay rights march


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/29/russian-police-gay-rights

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/18/1224634/-Ironies-Abound-Snowden-Russia-Human-Rights

[Mojorabbit]

62. I could respond with an equal number of links

but it should not be a contest on how bad either country is. We both have a long way to go.

[Cha]

63. I'm grateful I'm living in a country where Obama is President as opposed to Putin's Russia

Boycott Sochi?

Whether or not there is a boycott, connecting Putin's systematic attacks on LGBT people to the Sochi Olympics is a stroke of political genius. This isn't only because it focuses international attention on an issue largely undiscussed in the mainstream press. Sochi could very well be the all-powerful Putin's Achilles' heel. These Winter Games, to be held for reasons that still make no sense in Sochi's subtropical climate, are going to be more expensive than any other Games — summer or winter — in history. Due primarily to shady no-bid construction contracts for Putin's business allies, $30 billion in public funds have simply disappeared. This isn't an Olympics. It's more like a heist. The almighty Putin is looking more with each passing day like this guy: attacking the LGBT community in a cheap effort to turn attention away from rampant corruption and growing inequality, symbolized sharply by what's happening in Sochi.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9522926/gay-rights-sochi-boycott-movement

h/t http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023385664

[Mojorabbit]

64. As I said, I could match you link for link

easily. But you know that.

[Cha]

65. I know you keep saying that like you're broken recording... And, I know this..

john miller @deaconmill
If Snowden had been Russian and done the same thing to them, he would be dead already, no matter where he fled to.

5:20 AM - 1 Aug 2013

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/08/01/rise-and-shine-568/#comments

and, I know this..

There is no opposition in Russia to putin like the kochroach teabagger groundsmell in the USA..

[Uncle Joe]

72. If Snowden was Russian and had exposed a massive Russian surveillance network

against its' own people, and he escaped to the U.S. do you believe we would've granted him asylum?

[Cha]

73. If we did or didn't.. I think putin would try to make sure

he wasn't around to snitch on them. I'm thinking you know their history with dissenters..

As it is.. snowden and putin will be plotting against America. that is so special.

[Uncle Joe]

74. Snowden is not plotting against the U.S. whether

you agree with his actions or not, he was exposing what he and apparently many other people thought was a great wrong.

Russia has dissenters that have survived and some have been given asylum by the U.S.

I'm not giving the Russians a clean slate by any stretch, I know their hands are bloody.

I also believe that you believe if the situation was reversed and Snowden did survive long enough to make it to the U.S. we would give him asylum.

[Cha]

75. If snowden's giving secrets from his laptop to Russia then

he's helping Russia.

So what if we would give a Russian asylum? Putin made the big catch this time.. And, I'm not cheering for Russia. Fuck Russia and their Human Rights abuses.

Especially, their treatment of Gays is absolutely disgusting and dangerous.

[Uncle Joe]

77. I agree, Putin did make the big catch and it just goes to show you what a sad state of affairs it is

when Russia gets to take the high road on this issue.

I also agree with you in regards to their treatment of Gays being disgusting and dangerous.

[Cha]

78. I doubt Russia is taking any "high road".

Putin saw an opportunity to stick it to America.. they grabbed the hacker/leaker who made himself so available.

U.S. Penalizes Russians for Human Rights Violations

April 13, 2013

"The Obama administration barred 18 Russians from traveling to the United States and froze any assets they may have here under a new law intended to punish human rights violations. A handful of other more highly placed officials, including the head of the Russian region of Chechnya, were put on a list not publicly revealed. Russian officials promised to ban a like number of Americans."

"The public sanctions targeted largely midlevel officials but the classified list included Ramzan A. Kadyrov, the president of Chechnya, a Kremlin ally known as a ruthless ruler, according to people briefed on the list. Others on the secret list were figures of such prominence in Russia that the administration feared identifying them might invite retaliation by President Vladimir V. Putin against similarly situated American officials like members of Congress."

Of the 18 Russians identified on the unclassified list, all but two are tied to the death of Sergei L. Magnitsky, the lawyer for Mr. Browder who was investigating official corruption only to be arrested and die in custody in 2009. His death became a cause célèbre for Russia critics, and the American sanctions law was named for him.

Among those targeted Friday were investigators, tax officials, judges and prison supervisors connected to Mr. Magnitsky’s case. The other two were Chechens implicated in prominent murders: Lecha Bogatirov, accused of gunning down Umar S. Israilov, a Chechen dissident, on the streets of Vienna in 2009, and Kazbek Dukuzov, accused of murdering the American journalist Paul Klebnikov in Moscow in 2004.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20130412.aspx

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/13/world/europe/us-issues-penalties-against-russians-for-rights-violations.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0




"WASHINGTON -- Activists, Russian-Americans, and other concerned citizens held small demonstrations in front of Russia's missions in Washington and New York on July 31 to protest the country's rapidly deteriorating record on gay rights.

About 20 people rallied in front of Moscow's embassy in Washington, with some chanting, "Gay rights! Human rights!" over a megaphone in the direction of the imposing, gray edifice.
Others waved rainbow flags and held posters documenting the recent uptick in homophobic attacks in Russia.

One protester held a sign that read, "Russian state policy: A good gay is a dead gay."
The demonstration was organized in part by the Washington-based Spectrum Human Rights group, which recently helped publicize a spate of extreme gay bullying in Russia's Sverdlovsk region."

More..
http://www.rferl.org/content/protests-russia-gay-rights-washington-new-york-vodka-putin/25062837.html

I think Snowden needs to face what he did.. but, that's not going to happen.

[Uncle Joe]

79. You can call it self serving if you will and I would agree with you but perception is everything

and in regards to this issue, with many people around the world, this is the high road.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023390220

Members of parliament and human rights activists welcome Snowden's arrival as a legal Russian resident with his shiny new asylum passport.

[Cha]

80. Fucking hypocrites.

[Uncle Joe]

81. Human rights activists stand for many issues they will applaud

good moves and condemn bad ones.

Russia certainly should be and is condemned by human rights activists for their treatment of Gays for example but that doesn't mean those same people viewing an action that defends or progresses human rights on another front can't commend or speak favorably of it.

If human rights activists have to wait for any nation to reach perfection before credit is given when it's due, they will never be able to commend anything.

[freshwest]

10. Pro, Infowars loves Putin. It's a libertarian thing, you wouldn't get it.

Best part of this was the florid writing from the Guardian. Gotta sell stuff.

This piece makes a lot of assumptions about what Moscow and Washington want. They are in denial that the world has moved on beyond their control.

They won't acknowledge that the USA and Russia have a LOT of ties now that will never be broken. From the familial level to the top levels in industry and aerospace, traveling back and forth, marrying citizens, moving, etc.

The Guardian is running with the latest media circus and peeved about their 'journalist' being expelled. Probably an arrogant asshat. The sense of entitlement oozing off the press, flying around and complaining of there not being enough booze on board.

Meh.

[Luminous Animal]

3. So let him go to Bolivia or Venezuela.

[Scurrilous]

4. Thanks ProSense.

K & R

[UglyGreed]

7. vladimir putin

A former KGB agent with a heart of gold

[SidDithers]

8. DU rec...nt

Sid

[AtomicKitten]

9. The irony is thick. n/t

[ProSense]

15. Yup. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

51. Yes it is. nt

[LondonReign2]

11. Well fuck, if Russia isn't nice to its own whistleblowers

then its perfectly fine for the NSA to collect all our communications!

Thanks for clearing that up.

[ProSense]

12. Actually, thank you for sharing your thought process.

[LondonReign2]

13. All your hardwork has won me over

Now that I realize Snowden is bad, Greenwald is icky, and Russia is yucky, I'm totally on board with Total Information Awareness.


Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[ProSense]

14. Don't blame me for your thinking. n/t

Last edited Thu Aug 1, 2013, 02:48 PM - Edit history (1)

[Number23]

61. You're a lucky gal, Pro. You have such innnnteresting fans.

[NuclearDem]

16. Russia executes whistleblowers, the US jails them indefinitely, tortures them in custody,

and then threatens them with the death penalty.

Man, what savages those Russians are.

[ProSense]

17. Who are the whistleblowers who the US jails "indefinitely" and "tortures" in custody?

"Man, what savages those Russians are."

No they just "executes whistleblowers."

Russia’s treatment of its own whistle-blowers, meanwhile, is grim and awful. (Think Anna Politkovskaya, shot dead in Moscow in 2006, or Natalia Estemirova, kidnapped in Chechnya’s capital Grozny in 2009 and murdered.) Last month (July 11) Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who exposed massive interior ministry fraud, was himself convicted of crimes. Magnitsky was an unusual defendant: he was already dead.

Aparently, that's not as as bad as the U.S. treatment in your eyes. Which U.S. whistleblowers are you referring?

“He’s in for a pretty overwhelming investigation,” Tamm, now a criminal defense attorney in Rockville, Md., told POLITICO in an interview. “I think the government will use a lot of their resources to try to find him.”

But if Snowden is returned to the United States, Tamm said, “I think with the right representation, and with the right way of presenting what he did, I think he’ll be able to put his life back together.” Tamm says he’d even be willing to be part of the defense team.

William Binney, Thomas Drake, and Thomas Tamm are whistleblowers who stayed and faced the consequences for their actions. They were not persecuted, they faced prosecution. They are not in jail.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549

[NuclearDem]

21. You clearly didn't follow the Manning trial.

I didn't say Russia's treatment of whistleblowers was better than the US. What I did say is that we can't expect to be considered a country which treats our whistleblowers fairly after what we did to Bradley Manning.

So please don't put words in my mouth. I don't know where they've been.

[ProSense]

25. I did, and you said "them"

Manning was put in solitary confinement, and yes, that's cruel and inhumane. It's a policy of prisons all across this country.

Now, who are the whistleblowers who the U.S. "tortures" in custody that made you attempt to dismiss Russia murdering its whistleblowers?

[NuclearDem]

26. Oh stop it. Just stop it.

I never tried to dismiss Russia's treatment of its whistleblowers, and to assert that someone whose great-grandparents were disappeared by the KGB during the occupation of Latvia would make such a claim is dishonest, fallacious, and just fucking insulting.

What I did say is that while Russia does brutally treat its whistleblowers, at the very least it doesn't hide behind the propaganda of being "the land of the free" while doing so.

Extended periods of solitary confinement (which Bradley Manning was subjected to) is torture. Bradley Manning was tortured in custody. And all of the prisoners across this country who are subjected to extended periods of solitary confinement are being tortured as well.

[ProSense]

29. Yes, you did. You made a snarky remark as if to imply: So, the U.S. does this....n/t

[matthews]

59. Oh for God's sake, just tell her/him nyah nyah nyah nyah, nyah, nyah - tag. You're it.

Is not.

Is so.

Is not

Is so.

[The Corrector]

18. Prosense, where should Snowden seek asylum?

What's your suggestion?

[ProSense]

19. LOL! "What's your suggestion?" Here:

If Snowden's case as a whistleblower is so strong, why is he afraid to face the consequences?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549

My suggestion is that he should come back to the U.S. and face the consequences. I mean, he's a "hero," right?

[The Corrector]

24. Does the US Government consider him a hero?

Question #2: Do military judges share the same views as the people who consider Snowden a hero?

Why do you suggest that if some people consider someone a hero, it follows that a military tribunal will set him free? that makese no sense to me.

[ProSense]

32. You weren't happy with my "suggestion"? n/t

[The Corrector]

40. Confused, not happy or unhappy

Remember, you didnt explain your reasoning that if some people consider X a hero, it follows that X should agree to be tried by people who dont. Can you now answer the question you dodged, so I can be happy, unhappy, or anything else?

[stevenleser]

57. He isn't subject to military justice. He is a civilian. nt

[pintobean]

71. Corrected The Corrector

[freshwest]

30. He'll come back when the horror that is Rand Paul is elected. Expect confetti and swooning...

Along with throwing old people out of hospitals. The newly sanctified NSA will hire him to shoot all leakers in the balls. The KGB is giving him lessons on how to properly aim a gun where the bullets will do the most good.

His image will be engraved on the Ron Paul gold coins issued by each state when the Federal Reserve and all amendments after the first two are repealed. Heck, the Constitution will be repealed as well, we'll go back to the Articles of the Confederacy.

After our new theocracy is accepted in the name of freedom and liberty for some, the 1% will pull back the curtains and rename the former USA as the Koch Kingdom. Get ready to bow to the nice men with the guns you've seen at the Rand Paul rallies. They will protect the freedom and liberty. Of some.

An absolute monarchy with none of those pesky voting rights or any others. Because we will all have to agree, and not have any say so as we do now. The new natural law will reign supreme with each one's social status to be assigned at birth. Tough if you're not one of the 'some' named above.

[Mojorabbit]

55. No one here cares about Ron Paul for cripes sake. nt

[pintobean]

84. Corrected by MIRT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=306473&sub=trans

"Troll"

[allin99]

20. We all know this 1,000 times already. and we all know..

putin did it to say f/u to the u.s., and we all know snowden is staying there to escape prosecution and worse.

??

[ProSense]

22. We also know

the WH doesn't approve of Russia's actions: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023386524

[allin99]

27. which happened...*today*, not weeks now...

yes, our country made a statement today on the person they've been trying to catch regarding his asylum. Snowden fled to russia with nowhere else to go *weeks* ago.

[ProSense]

28. The piece in the OP is from today, and the administration position is not new.

What exactly are you upset about? It's not the timing of the piece.

[allin99]

31. the u.s. reaction could have been anything. they made a statement on todays asylum...

and the asylum was a pretty big deal.

[ProSense]

33. That

"the u.s. reaction could have been anything. they made a statement on todays asylum...and the asylum was a pretty big deal."

...doesn't explain why this OP is upsetting to you. You're going on about timing, and that's simply strange.

Senate pushes sanctions on nations aiding Snowden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023338422

[allin99]

34. it's just weird that you post the exact same thing...

so many times when there's literally no question that russia is horrible on human rights. there is no question as to why he is there.

what is the point of russia is bad on human rights? are you saying he prefers that country to other countries? what is the point? every single person knows that he is there because he will be prosecuted if he's back in the u.s. ???

i mean, what is the point of the finding new ways to say russia prosecutes their own, which has never not been the case in 100's of years, even in the first place, let alone 20 times. ?

snowden has no other place to escape to.

[ProSense]

36. What

"it's just weird that you post the exact same thing..."

...the hell are you talking about? The OP is a report from today.

You should really figure out a way to deal with your issues instead of trying to use them to hijack this thread.

[allin99]

37. there's nowhere else for him to go.

even you don't think otherwise, do you?

[ProSense]

38. So, what does that have to do with the OP?

"there's nowhere else for him to go. even you don't think otherwise, do you?"

He voluntarily went to Russia. His predicament does not prevent anyone from discussing Russia's human rights record.

See the update in the OP with quotes from the human rights groups.

[DevonRex]

35. If Snowden lives happily ever after in Russia then he worked for them

the whole time. And, since Putin granted the asylum so quickly that's what it's starting to smell like.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. Beware: Harding wrote a book about it after reporting it

http://www.amazon.com/dp/085265247X

and we all know that a reporter writing a book is something that needs a defense, eh, proSense?

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10023286277#post6

[ProSense]

42. So there were no murders?

What about the human rights groups concerns?

[muriel_volestrangler]

43. I'm taking the mickey of you and your cohort's breathless denunciation of books

that are written by reporters after an event. You had endless fun saying that this proves Greenwald is in it for the money, and therefore shouldn't be listened to. Now that it suits you, you're linking to another Guardian journalist, who wrote a book after a significant event. It's just to show your glaring double standards.

[ProSense]

44. OK. So there were murders, but you're just "taking the mickey" on a false equivalency.

Got it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. 'Guardian reporter writes a book'='Guardian reporter writes a book' is a 'false equivalency'?

Wow, you need a dictionary for 'false' as well as 'bogus', don't you?

[ProSense]

46. Yes, the book has nothing to do with the current report, and the situations aren't remotely similar.

Want to discuss the OP?

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. The book is about the title of your thread, and by the man you describe in your title

You cannot seriously claim it has "nothing to do with the current report". As I said, it's 'Guardian reporter writes a book'='Guardian reporter writes a book'. I know that you only like links back to your previous posts when you post them, because, let's face it, an awful lot of what you write is intensely embarrassing for you, but I thought that particularly farcical episode of your pro-NSA group denouncing the writing of books deserved another airing. It made you look like characters from 'Fahrenheit 451'.

[Cha]

48. Irony Alert..

eclecticbrotha @eclecticbrotha

Irony alert. When alleged NSA abuses aired, USA tries to assuage people's fears. When documented KGB/FSB abuses exposed, leakers killed.

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/08/01/rise-and-shine-568/#comments

Good ol Human Rights Abusers Russia.. "yay russia bad ol usa "

My money is on the USA.. "humiliation" aside. BFD. Pres Obama doesn't waste his time on such roadblocks. He and his Admin figure out how to go through them.

A law passed in June bans imposes hefty fines for providing information about the gay community to minors or holding gay pride rallies, a move that has prompted gays in the U.S. and elsewhere to call for boycott of the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi.

john miller @deaconmill

If Snowden had been Russian and done the same thing to them, he would be dead already, no matter where he fled to.

5:20 AM - 1 Aug 2013
18 Retweets 7 favorites

[freshwest]

58. Gays had better stay away from Russia in 2014 or they'll be arrested:

Russian lawmaker: We will arrest gay athletes, tourists at Olympic Games

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023374013

I still like Russians that I know personally, though...

[Cha]

60. yeah, that's a freakng red flag right there. Something's

freakishly wrong with Russia.

[freshwest]

66. They've gone the free market paradise road. Just what the Libertarians want here. He'll do fine.

[Cha]

67. Oh yeah, Mr "Ron Paul is dreamy" will do just fine. Nostrovia Putin puppet.

oops, I misspelled "nostrovia".

[freshwest]

68. Well, AJ and RP heart Putin, so what's not to like, LOL.

[bluestate10]

69. Good post. Snowden choosing Russia is equivalent to a person choosing Satan as safe

harbor.

[sheshe2]

70. Poor Eddie

"Over the past eight weeks we have seen the Obama administration show no respect for international or domestic law, but in the end the law is winning," Snowden said in a statement issued by WikiLeaks. "I thank the Russian federation for granting me asylum in accordance with its laws and international obligations."

Watch what you are grateful for Eddie. It will probably bite you in the ass.

[Cha]

83. "In the end".. you're nothing but a hacker/leaker who scuttled off to

China and Russia and whine about the President of the USA from your hidey hole.. libertarian asshole.

eddie's such a hypocritical, poser pos.

she

[SwampG8r]

76. how does the united states treat russian whistleblowers?

if the intent is to create an analogy it should be
us whistleblowers treatment in the us vrs us whistleblower treatment in Russia
Russian whistleblower treatment in Russia vrs Russian whistleblower treatment in the us
both nations seem to have a "make em disappear" policy inside their own borders
and we have a long history of sheltering people the Russians would have liked back

[Zorra]

82. Pussy Riot ~ Putin Lights Up The Fires

This state may be stronger than time in jail.

The more arrests, the happier it is.
Every arrest is carried out with love for the sexist

Who botoxed his cheeks and pumped his chest and abs.

But you can’t nail us in the coffin.
Throw off the yoke of former KGB!

Putin is lighting the fires of revolution
He’s bored and scared of sharing silence with the people
With every execution: the stench of rotten ash
With every long sentence: a wet dream

The country is going, the country is going into the streets boldly
The country is going, the country is going to bid farewell to the regime
The country is going, the country is going, like a feminist wedge
And Putin is going, Putin is going to say goodbye like a sheep

Arrest the whole city for May 6th
Seven years isn’t enough, give us 18!
Forbid us to scream, walk and curse!
Go and marry Father Lukashenko