Stipulated: Russia is letting Snowden stay to diminish America in some way

[cthulu2016]

By letting Snowden stay in Russia, rather than arresting and extraditing him, Russia is acting in Russia's perceived self-interest and acting to the (perceived) detriment of the USA

This detriment can be as simple as not letting America get its way... thwarting us on a small thing just so they world will see us thwarted. Or it can be as lurid as it pleases one to imagine.

(Russia may be doing us an unintended favor insofar as a Snowden trial would be fertilizer for anti-American sentiment in some quarters, but the USA, for whatever reason, thinks our interests are served by Snowden's return.)

In any case, Russia is not acting out of an abstract love of press freedoms.

This should be stipulated by all in hopes of achieving a better signal-to-noise ratio. It is obvious and has nothing whatsoever to do with the propriety of NSA programs and procedures.

[Mojorabbit]

1. Yes they are and it is a given

and we have done the same through the years. I guess it is good that there is a place for sanctuary for some people within the countries with big influence in the world.

[StanGr]

2. Oh bullshit. They're letting him stay because he committed no crime.

It's the NSA that is committing the crimes. Why can't people understand that?

[cthulu2016]

3. (facepalm) Well... I tried.

[StanGr]

5. We need whistle blowers. Otherwise we're simply serfs.

[pnwmom]

7. If he was a Russian they would have considered it a crime.

Anyone who says otherwise knows nothing about Russia.

[StanGr]

8. I'm quite familiar with Russia and you are correct. He violated no US laws.

[pnwmom]

9. Downloading classified documents and sharing them with others

is against Federal law and is a felony. If he did what he claims to have done, then he violated US law.

[StanGr]

10. To the best of my knowledge on the subject all he did was reveal non-classified material.

It was reported in other venues but he made it rather public. The NSA is violating the 4th Amendment and that's all he made public. The Constitution is rather clear on this matter and he reported a violation. That isn't illegal.

[pnwmom]

12. No, the power-point presentation WAS a classified document. It was illegal for him to have

taken it and distributed it. The Chinese newspaper also claims that he shared classified info with them about US spying on China.

And the collection of meta-data has already been ruled by Federal courts to NOT be in violation of the 4th amendment. And there's no evidence of Obama having conducted warrantless wiretapping, as was done in the Bush administration.

[StanGr]

13. Agreed about the shrub, but the current Prysim is directly in violation of the 4th.

[pnwmom]

15. The Prism program, contrary to initial reports,

primarily involves surveillance of foreign targets. A warrant is required for any domestic surveillance. And so Prism, based on what we know so far, isn't against the 4th amendment.

But in any case, it is quite clear that Snowden unlawfully took classified documents and shared them with Greenwald.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

Edward Joseph Snowden (born June 21, 1983)[1] is an American who leaked details of several top-secret United States and British government mass surveillance programs to the press.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

U.S. government officials have disputed some aspects of the Guardian and Washington Post stories and have defended the program by asserting it cannot be used on domestic targets without a warrant, that it has helped to prevent acts of terrorism, and that it receives independent oversight from the federal government's executive, judicial and legislative branches.

[StanGr]

16. Oh, I've so heard this before. Raptor, TIA, and many other programs all said the same thing.

Curiously, Raptor was created about the time Snowden was born. TIA came along a decade later. If there's one thing I've learned over the years it is to never trust the government. It doesn't matter what party is in power. They just want control and will use any method to gain it. I don't even think the president or Congress has a clue what's going on. There are forces beyond what even they know. I'm assuming this message is being recorded with 27 8x10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows to be used as evidence against me in court.

[magical thyme]

4. actually, I'd say our government is doing a good job of diminishing us

from what I can see, they didn't need any help from Russia. Our government set itself up for failure when it started demanding that countries violate their own and international law, or else. (insert 'holding breath til I turn blue' icon here.)

In any event, some of us are experiencing the schadenfreude of our bought and paid for government ending up with egg and pie all over its face.

[sabrina 1]

6. So what are we doing by giving asylum to Russian Dissidents? We have done so more than

just once. Eg, Russia has requested the extradition of one of the their citizens and we have refused.

Are people really this unaware of US policies re extradition of people from other nations?

I guess we are trying to diminish Russia also. Which kind of evens things out, no?

[davidn3600]

11. Do we arrest and send defectors back?

Nope.

During the Soviet era especially, we welcomed defectors with open arms. And the CIA loved their information.

So now that the tables are turned, we look like the secretive nation oppressing whistleblowers and freedom fighters. Yeah, there is the homosexual oppression going on in Russia right now. But most of the world views the United States as a nation of hypocrites. And they are enjoying this little moment when America doesn't get her way no matter how much she kicks and screams.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. This is standard state relations

Are people that naive?

We have done this too...with Russian dissidents no less.

[roamer65]

17. He's a bargaining chip for the Russians.

They'll use him when they need to...