The US is not as bad as China or Russia and Obama is not as bad as Bush!

[Bonobo]

Woo hoo! Let's give ourselves a big pat on the back!

Mission accomplished!!!

[Mojorabbit]

1. I know! It is getting ridiculous.

As if ANY of that has anything to do with the subject at hand at the end of the day. I have never seen anything like it on this board.

[reformist2]

54. We're running out of countries we can 'beat' on human rights...

[KittyWampus]

2. Actually, the USA is about as good as any other European country you care to name. Or Japan.

And Obama is about as good as any of those country's heads of state.

[Fumesucker]

6. Well, other than having a much higher poverty rate, a much higher incarceration rate

Higher infant mortality rates and shorter lifespans than those Eurotrash countries.

And let's not forget the vast number of gun killings in America.

[Bonobo]

8. I think she meant OTHER than those little issues.

And other than the preemptive strikes, constant warfare, lack of infrastructure, crumbling bridges combined with the massive and unprecedented (in a 1st world nation) gap between rich and poor.

[KittyWampus]

9. How is the suicide rate in Japan, Bonobo?

[Bonobo]

21. Not as bad as the US military, KittyRatus. nt

[reformist2]

57. We're still #1 in numbers of fatcats rolling around in piles of money!!

[KittyWampus]

11. Rioters in Sweden protest alleged brutality, racism after police shoot elderly man

http://rt.com/news/stockholm-riots-police-shooting-537/

[Fumesucker]

18. The police shooting in a racist incident is unsusual in Sweden

In the USA we call it Thursday.

[KittyWampus]

24. Homophobia exacts a chilling price as hate crimes climb

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homophobia-exacts-a-chilling-price-as-hate-crimes-climb-2374674.html

[Enthusiast]

67. A big PLUS ONE!

[KittyWampus]

13. Riots in France

http://riotsfrance.ssrc.org/

[Fumesucker]

16. Riots in Huntingdon Beach

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-huntington-beach-riot-social-media-20130729,0,4602387.story

[KittyWampus]

15. France heat wave death toll set at 14,802

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-09-25-france-heat_x.htm

[Fumesucker]

20. Climate change is due to the French emitting too much CO2?

[KittyWampus]

29. Rightwing Extremism (Germany)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/topic/right_wing_extremism/

Running on nationalist and often racist platforms, far right parties have gone from the streets into government, enjoying renewed popularity on local and national levels throughout Europe. In eastern Germany, the far-right NPD party has a foothold at state and local levels.

[Fumesucker]

30. How does any of this make what I said originally untrue?

Good thing we don't have any right wing nationalists in the USA, at least that's one problem Germany has that the US doesn't.

[sabrina 1]

43. Well, that says it all. We in the US have eliminated all Right Wing Extremism!

[KittyWampus]

19. France: Violent anti-equal marriage protesters clash with riot police in Paris

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/05/27/france-violent-anti-equal-marriage-protesters-clash-with-riot-police-in-paris/

[KittyWampus]

26. 'Nazi Bride' case highlights rising influence of women in Germany's far-right movement

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/04/18037642-nazi-bride-case-highlights-rising-influence-of-women-in-germanys-far-right-movement?lite

[Egalitarian Thug]

68. And education, mass transit, poverty, homelessness, leisure time...

you know silly stuff that really doesn't effect any real human beings or anything.

Do you ever wonder if they really believe the shit they write?

[lovuian]

3. Does China do a preemptive attack on Iraq and Russia

looking for WMD which doesn't exist and tell the UN a lie?

I know Russia attacked Afghanistan but then we did that too

China hasn't but they did take over Tibet

I guess the Super powers are very much alike ....they have huge armies

[Purveyor]

28. ^this^ +1 eom

[LittleBlue]

4. Ridiculous, isn't it?

I'm starting to lose any feeling I had for this country. The situation fills me with despair, looking around at my fellow Americans making embarrassing excuses for their favorite politicians. The whole charade makes one wonder if there is any point.

[adirondacker]

31. +1

You're not alone. The best I can do is go for a bike or hike to focus on some of the good things that still exist. Looking around in the news and even DU can leave one a lot to despair about. Thanks for your honesty.

[ProSense]

5. Well,

"The US is not as bad as China or Russia and Obama is not as bad as Bush!"

...that's a good thing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023386518

Think of the delusional people who can't even make that distinction: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023385643

[NuclearDem]

32. What a standard to compare ourselves to!

At least we don't kill whistleblowers. I mean, sure, we jail them indefinitely, torture them, and threaten them with execution, or at the very least, threaten them with outrageous jail terms if they expose corporate misdoings, but we don't kill them!

I would think we would hold ourselves to the standard of "not doing anything of those things" to our whistleblowers, being the land of the free and after voting in an administration apparently committed to accountability and transparency, but if the best we can do is "at least we don't kill them," then mission accomplished.

[ProSense]

34. "At least we don't kill whistleblowers."

"At least we don't kill whistleblowers. I mean, sure, we jail them indefinitely, torture them, and threaten them with execution, or at the very least, threaten them with outrageous jail terms if they expose corporate misdoings, but we don't kill them! "

No we don't. And your point is hyperbole. We've had this discussion before: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023386518#post17

[NuclearDem]

35. Yeah, and, just like before, you seem to be comfortable with holding the US to Russian standards

And again, you dismiss as hyperbole exactly what happened to Bradley Manning.

[ProSense]

36. Nonsense. Murder is not the same as a due process. n/t

[NuclearDem]

39. Wow, fantastically missing the point again.

Whistleblowers shouldn't be getting punished at all. We do punish them. Russia also punishes them, but much more brutally.

But still, my point remains, we shouldn't be doing it at all, not just giving ourselves a pat on the back for at least not killing them.

[ProSense]

40. What

"Whistleblowers shouldn't be getting punished at all. We do punish them. Russia also punishes them, but much more brutally. "

...utter drivel. Murder isn't punishment, it's murder.

Blake, Binney, Tamm, none of them are in jail.

[NuclearDem]

41. Yes, it is a damn punishment. Cruel and unusual punishment.

And while your list is incredible, Bradley Manning is facing a life sentence, Ellsberg and Russo narrowly escaped the same, John Kiriakou is in jail, and Jeffrey Sterling has been indicted. And none of the assholes they blew the whistle on have even so much as been slapped on the wrist.

[ProSense]

42. It's murder. Murder isn't punishment.

The comparison is warped.

[NuclearDem]

45. Pain and suffering inflicted as retribution is punishment. In this case, it's also murder.

[ProSense]

47. Warped! n/t

[NuclearDem]

49. What, no ROFL smiley?

I feel cheated. Usually when you've got nothing else, you at least give us the ROFL smiley.

[ProSense]

50. Deflection doesn't change the fact: Warped. n/t

[NuclearDem]

52. Oh, well, I'll settle for the tired old accusation of deflection and you repeating yourself...

[ProSense]

56. And guess what: The comparison is still warped. n/t

[NuclearDem]

60. Just because you say so doesn't mean it is.

In fact, I explained why it isn't. You just chose to plug your ears and scream WARPED WARPED WARPED WARPED rather than address it.

[sabrina 1]

44. Torture doesn't equal due process.

We honor our War Criminals and our Wall St. Criminals.

We punish those who turn them in.

[ProSense]

46. No, it doesn't

Which whistleblowers were tortured?

I asked before: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023386518#post17

[NuclearDem]

48. And you received an answer, which you seem to have conveniently forgotten.

[ProSense]

53. No

"And you received an answer, which you seem to have conveniently forgotten."

...I haven't "forgotten": http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023386518#post25

[NuclearDem]

58. Nice link! I especially like how it shows you don't understand that long term solitary is torture.

Or maybe you do know, and you're okay with the torture of thousands of criminals across this country as well.

[ProSense]

62. Nonsense, similar to claiming that murder is "punishment." n/t

[NuclearDem]

63. Seriously? You don't think long term solitary confinement is torture?

Because if so, you are so, so, unbelievably, demonstrably, WRONG.

I mean, wow. You can be wrong, and then you can be WRONG.

[ConcernedCanuk]

64. +1!

.
.
.

CC

[Mojorabbit]

71. The poster does not care one way or another

but as usual has succeeded in throwing the thread off so there can be no flow of discussion

[sabrina 1]

55. How sweet, you forgot about Bradley Manning ...

I never forget things like that, torture and the inhumane treatment of any human being.

[ProSense]

59. Actually,

"How sweet, you forgot about Bradley Manning ..."

...there is nothing "sweet" about baseless claims.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023386518#post25

[sabrina 1]

70. Bradley Manning was tortured. There is no doubt about that at all.

[questionseverything]

61. brown is being held w/o bail

solitary and no family visits and he has not been convicted!

he is a whistleblower and a journalist

[backscatter712]

7. By which metric?

How about incarceration rates per capita?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

U.S.: 716 prisoners per 100,000
Russia: 484
China: either 121 or 170. Let's assume 170.

All hail the Land of the Free!

[Historic NY]

10. Maybe if we terminated 2000 or so a yr we could ...

start lowering our incarceration rate.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_country

[backscatter712]

12. The prison-industrial complex makes more money enslaving prisoners than shooting them... n/t

[Historic NY]

25. No so much in NY any more they shut down most of the industries...

including the farms that produced for the system.

[Fumesucker]

23. 2,000 would barely be a rounding error

[sabrina 1]

51. Or maybe we could emulate the world's more civilized nations, like Russia, and put a moratorium

on it for 20 years or so.

Once again we are in the company of some of the world's least civilized nations re the DP. Our 'new democracy' in Iraq emulates us re the DP.

[JaneyVee]

14. I agree 100%

[arely staircase]

17. just as long as you think they are bad nt

[TeeYiYi]

22. That bar is so low...

...you'd have to climb up a ladder to piss on a curb.

TYY

_{Thank you. Thank you very much. Don't forget to tip your server. I'll be here all week.}

[90-percent]

27. one more

Hermann Goering was not as bad as Adolf Hitler.

-jim

[populistdriven]

33. Bush never had much potential, Obama on the other hand has been a HUGE disappointment

[UTUSN]

37. r#13

[Uncle Joe]

38. We Rock!

Thanks for the thread, Bonobo.

[KG]

65. because.....freedom! duh!

[Enthusiast]

66. High standards, indeed!

[dipsydoodle]

69. List of countries by incarceration rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

And at #1 we have the USA @ 716 / 100,000 head of population.

Mission accomplished ?