I'm drunk, any other alcoholics around?

[madville]

Started drinking Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA at 4pm, kind of hammered. I'm 35 and feel 60, been binge drinking for 20 years now. I think about quiting everyday. I want to quit, have probably spent $100,000 on alcohol and cigarettes in the last 20 years.

I grew up with parents that drank and functioned, doing the same going through the motions, make 60k a year and it all centers around making time to drink.

I want to stop drinking, I think about back when I was a teenager and realize besides 8 weeks in boot camp the longest I have gone without alcohol is about 5 days.

I go two or three days and I relapse. Drunk again tonight, it sucks. I'm fine otherwise though, good job, financials, etc, just lonely at times as well since the last few women I've spent time with were heavy drinkers as well.

Enough of this rant, I'm safe and secure, no worries, I just want to kick this addiction, does anyone have any advice?

[randome]

1. Learn to get high on oxygen. That's how I kicked smoking more than 20 years ago.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[sufrommich]

2. Here's a DU forum that may be helpful to you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1144

[Gman]

3. AA

Also are you a vet? They have excellent programs.

[newcriminal]

8. I second AA.

Good luck.

[madville]

12. yes i have VA resources

Will see what's available in the area

[Gman]

36. Did you see action?

Where you in a combat area? You could be qualified for PTSD benefits. And regardless of your family background (which undoubtedly plays a roll) PTSD could be exacerbating your alcoholism.

[Lasher]

4. Yes, the folks in the Lounge would probably be a better sounding board.

Or not.

[Purveyor]

5. You've taken a great step here just by your post. You need a crutch and I hope someone here

more up on the resources available can guide you to them.

Godspeed my friend.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. I fucking love you...

[madville]

14. You just made my night

Thank You

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. If you can go two or three days without drinking at all, you're not in the grip of alcohol.

You might have problems, problems that you need to talk about with other people, but you're not so far gone as to consider yourself "over the edge".

I'm sure there are people here would disagree with me, but hey... I've been to the edge and back. I've been the type of person who could drink a 12 pack every night after work. I had issues. I had things I put away inside of me that made me mad... I couldn't talk about them openly, and they didn't affect every one of my days... they just came out sometimes.

Find an AA meeting. Go hang out. No one will FORCE you to get up and talk. You can walk in and walk out anonymously. That's the way it works.

Otherwise? Drop me a line. I might not be the brightest bulb on the board nor the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm more than willing to give up some time for someone who needs it.

Drop me a line...

[dogknob]

62. I disagree. The underlying problem will still be there. Whatever it is... n/t

[elleng]

7. Dear madville,

try this group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1144

and there's a lot of interesting and useful information here: http://www.lakesidemilam.com/alcohol-drug-addiction/disease-of-addiction-synopsis/

Best of luck.

[bhikkhu]

9. Exercise is one way

I find that I enjoy exercise, working outdoors, and generally being healthy. To the point that I don't like to do things that interfere with my health. Of course, its totally different for different people, and the odds of this being useful are very slim...but back years ago when I did smoke and drink, when I was 30-something and felt 50-something, I started by beginning to bicycle to work. It saved money, which was a very good thing, and it quickly became the best part of my day. I quit smoking and that made it easier. A year later I quit drinking (which was harder than quitting smoking), because I felt better without the alcohol.

Generally just quitting something is harder, because it leaves an empty place. If you do something different that you enjoy, then let that something new crowd out the addiction, if you see what I mean?

[quinnox]

10. Not one myself, but I am very familiar with the problem

from life experiences. I would suggest to go completely dry. I think people are able to change if they have the desire to. Even big and difficult obstacles like this kind of thing. It can be overcome through willpower and persistence I think. Good luck.

[pintobean]

11. I found something more important than drinking.

I had to choose between the booze or my family. I chose the latter, and my life improved greatly. I haven't been drunk in almost 23 years.

It wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be. I was so use to to being drunk so often, I couldn't imagine life without booze. Once I really quit, I started enjoying life, rather than going through the motions in order to get to the drinking.

Best of luck to you Madville. Make your own luck.

[RebelOne]

13. You are not alone. I am a wino and a cigarette addict.

I drink many glasses of wine just to get to sleep at night. And I have tried everything to quit cigarettes even hypnotism and nothing has worked.

[Squinch]

102. I smoked for 25 years. For the last 5, I woke up every day and said,

"Today is the day. Today I quit." And by noon I'd be smoking.

Till one day it stuck. I can't say why that particular day worked. But it did.

Hang in there. Keep trying. It's worth it.

[Gregorian]

15. Get a bike.

In a nutshell, we're either killing ourselves, or getting better. I chose to get better.

I smoked and drank, yet I lead a life where I was a roofer during the day, and would go on tough bike rides in the afternoon. But all night long I dissipated. At 45 I was suffering. By 50 I had quit it all, with the help of cannabis. The bike remained the thread that ran through it all. But at 50 I was so sick that I didn't think I would live. Still I rode every day.

Now I'm 57. I've been clean of all alcohol for 10 years, and I'm just barely coming back to how it feels to be healthy.

The decision is really easy. If you want to be ill, keep drinking and smoking. If you want to be well, stop. I think AA is bullshit. It works, but so does deciding that you would rather feel well.

When you're really sick, and really in discomfort, you'll make that decision. And believe me, there is no better feeling than to come from the grasp of death and rediscover what it feels like to be fresh and clean.

I still can't believe I quit. But the discomfort was too great. And there's the bike. That's the thing that ties it all together. But you'll have to discover that for yourself. Try it.

You've got a lot of time to be dead after you live this life. Don't cheat yourself.

[steve2470]

16. I think AA is wonderful but not everyone likes it or does well with it...

You can also try Rational Recovery:

https://rational.org/index.php?id=1

Best wishes to you. Keep trying, one day you'll conquer it one day at a time, as they say.

[Marie Marie]

27. I have much experience with alcoholism in my family and would like to vouch for

Rational Recovery mentioned above. Also, SMART Recovery (www.smartrecovery.org). Both are excellent alternatives to 12 Step programs if you found that AA was not for you. SMART Recovery runs on-line meetings daily. Good luck to you, you can do it if you want it bad enough.

[KinMd]

59. 29 years sober here also..a day at a time

[mikeypooh]

18. You sound similar to me

Except I think you have been at it heavier for longer than I was. I remember the days of getting off work, running some errands as quick as possible so that I could get home and commence the drinking.

My mom died youngish from alcohol related issues, and I quit for 8 months the day she passed. I then relapsed for 6 months or so, but have been good since, I've been dry for over two years now. I'm 35 also. I didn't do AA or anything like that, so it is possible.

I wish I had real advice for you but I don't. I think it is different for everyone. I would say not to beat yourself up over the money you've blown on your boozing. Everyone blows money on something. At least it wasn't blown on meth or crack.

Try to love yourself. I know it sounds corny as hell, and it is, but there is truth there also.

Have you ever seen the videos of animals who have spent most of their lives in cages? And they've gone crazy, and walk in circles and are just pathetic? When I give the world a good hard look, I see the world we live in as being a series of hard to see cages like that that we live in, and we're all insane to some degree or another. So we all have our crutches to keep us functioning in this crazy bizzaro-world.

I guess that's what helps keep me dry. I want a clear mind as I gaze into the abyss, so I can try and see how deep it really goes.

But I don't hold anyone's addictions/crutches against them. I used to really hate the bums who would ask for money and you know they really just wanted to get drunk or high. But, looking at the state of affairs today, who can blame them? Hell, I will probably be joining them at some point in the future, lol.

Oh, one other thing, I had really grown to hate my stressful job when I was getting drunk 5-7 days a week. I think it really is self medication at this level... our bodies are telling us that something is wrong and we need to make changes, but we usually choose anti-depressants or drugs or alcohol as a crutch to keep us going. I currently work as a groundskeeper at a cemetery and I love the job. Get to be outside, exercise, no stress. Only ten bucks an hour but at this point in my life I would have to say it's the best job I've ever had. It's not killing me, lol. That's worth another ten bucks an hour right there, lol.

/Ramble off

Good luck to you.

[woo me with science]

115. "I see the world we live in as being a series of hard to see cages like that"

Thank you. One of the sick messages we are fed is that there is something wrong with anyone for being miserable in response to a profoundly sick society.

Often victory means finding the least destructive way of coping. I think your job sounds lovely.

[Electric Monk]

19. The first step is admitting you have a problem. AA doesn't work for everyone, but it does work for

many. Go to a meeting, and find a sponsor. If it takes a few meetings to find the right group and the right sponsor, then that's what it takes.

AA isn't just for people who have already quit drinking. It's for people who want to quit drinking, and are ready to admit they need help.

If you relapse, try again, maybe with a different sponsor, or even a different group, but keep quitting and remember that it does get easier over time.

[Rhiannon12866]

64. Think you said this very well. And AA did work for me though I'm a liberal atheist

"The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking," and I've found that to be true. The types of groups and the beliefs of members can vary widely. Find what's right for you and "leave the rest." And we all have the most important thing in common. We really are everyone. Four years, three months and three days sober here.

[Electric Monk]

72. Anecdottaly, I've noticed a fairly high success rate in those who do 90 meetings in 90 days.

If you can make the time to get blotto, you've got the time to find a meeting instead. You may be surprised how much extra time you have in a day

Check your local listings.

[Rhiannon12866]

73. I think you meant to reply to the OP, but I totally agree with you on that, as well!

At my second meeting I met the woman who was to become my sponsor and she immediately zeroed in on me as a newbie, LOL, and gave me lots of "suggestions." I really did have the gift of desperation, so I took them, especially 90 meetings in 90 days. I had a lot to hear and that gave me the chance to hear what I needed to. What I learned was "One Day at a Time," and that's what allowed me to start putting time together. And I certainly still need it often. You've expressed my experience, too.

[Whisp]

20. I used to drink far more than I should.

Usually during stressful job times. Either it was have a couple because I'm celebrating or have a couple because I felt low. There was always a reason/excuse.

I still love my beer and tomator juice and mouth puckering sour lime margaritas.
I have a much less stressful life now. In most ways.

[MrSlayer]

21. Ever think of simply not doing it anymore?

Or only doing it occasionally?

It really is that simple. Willpower.

[nobodyspecial]

22. Spoken like someone who has no clue

It really is NOT that simple

[MrSlayer]

29. Oh no?

It is for me. Perhaps I'm one of those people that doesn't get addicted to things.

I smoked cigarettes for thirty years because I wanted to. I stopped last year with zero difficulty because I wanted to. No withdrawal, no weight gain, no irritability, nothing. Done.

The only phyisical addiction I believe in is opiates and I've never been stupid enough to get into that crap.

Drinking, weed, coke, cigarettes all have never had any addictive hold on me and I've partied like the OP a lot. I mean a lot a lot.

So, I know what I'm talking about. It's all in your mind.

[AgingAmerican]

32. Absolute nonsense

Alcohol is a physical addiction and withdrawal from it is a medical emergency. Some people just don't get addicted to it. Some do. People are wired differently.

[MrSlayer]

37. Fair enough.

I guess I'm just fortunate that way. It's just hard for me to fathom it in others. I see it as a lack of self control I suppose.

[Mojorabbit]

55. But it is not. You are lucky. nt

[Squinch]

103. You might want to try to fathom it, or not comment on your superiority to people who are clearly

in pain and asking for help.

That would be a form of self control that you don't seem to have. It seems we are all lacking self control in some area or another.

[MrSlayer]

108. You're probably right.

I can see where it might come off as dickish. That wasn't my intention.

[Chaco Dundee]

53. dammed right

Almost 60 and drank like a fish every chance I had.I like alcoholl and nicotin,but I always quit when I had to in order to not let it interfere with my responsibility,job,or conduct.just leave it alone when you have to.it,s easy if your heart is in it and you mean it.

[Warren Stupidity]

77. You couldn't be more wrong.

Many of us former alcoholics did just that: we just stopped. No AA program, just don't have that next drink. If AA works for you, fine, but thinking that programs like AA are the only way is just bullshit.

[cordelia]

81. "former alcoholic"?

You may want to reexamine just who it is without a clue.

[Warren Stupidity]

82. Sorry if you've accepted the permanently

Helpless status AA pushes. I'm not an alcoholic. I was, 25 years ago. But if thinking you have a permanent condition works for you, that's fine. Just don't claim it's the only way.

[pintobean]

87. I agree.

I gave AA a shot and found that it wasn't for me. I'm happy for the people who find it useful.

[Go Vols]

98. +1

[Major Nikon]

110. AA has no proven efficacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effectiveness_of_Alcoholics_Anonymous#Clinical_studies

[Warren Stupidity]

111. I wasn't going to bring that up.

What I react to is the outrage at any suggestion that AA is not the only way.

[Major Nikon]

113. It's not even close to being the most used method

Most alcoholics that do quit do so all by themselves.

... The success rates for people suffering from addictions is about the same regardless if they complete a 12-step program, an inpatient program, or just go cold-turkey. Here’s what the The Harvard Mental Health Letter had to say about this surprising fact.

There is a high rate of recovery among alcoholics and addicts, treated and untreated. According to one estimate, heroin addicts break the habit in an average of 11 years. Another estimate is that at least 50% of alcoholics eventually free themselves though only 10% are ever treated. One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as “Things were building up” or “I was sick and tired of it.” Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.

*Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction — Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Volume 12, Number 4, October 1995, page 3.
(See Aug. (Part I), Sept. (Part II), Oct. 1995 (Part III).)

http://www.reconsider.org/wordpress/?p=121

[Dwayne Hicks]

23. Not so simple

Alcohol is also highly addictive.

[MrSlayer]

30. Perhaps if you have an addictive personality.

It isn't for me. It isn't for a lot of people I know.

[Electric Monk]

38. Read this then say that again. It can become a physical addiction, not just a 'bad habit'.

Alcohol withdrawal syndrome is a potentially life-threatening condition that can occur in people who have been drinking heavily for weeks, months, or years and then either stop or significantly reduce their alcohol consumption.

Alcohol withdrawal symptoms can begin as early as two hours after the last drink, persist for weeks, and range from mild anxiety and shakiness to severe complications, such as seizures and delirium tremens (also called DTs). The death rate from DTs -- which are characterized by confusion, rapid heartbeat, and fever -- is estimated to range from 1% to 5%.

Because alcohol withdrawal symptoms can rapidly worsen, it's important to seek medical attention even if symptoms are seemingly mild. Appropriate alcohol withdrawal treatments can reduce the risk of developing withdrawal seizures or DTs.

It's especially important to see a doctor if you've experienced previous alcohol withdrawal episodes or if you have other health conditions such as infections, heart disease, lung disease, or a history of seizures.

Severe alcohol withdrawal symptoms are a medical emergency. If seizures, fever, severe confusion, hallucinations, or irregular heartbeats occur, either take the patient to an emergency room or call 911.

more
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/alcohol-abuse/alcohol-withdrawal-symptoms-treatments

[MrSlayer]

52. You're right.

It can be for some.

[Dorian Gray]

84. It definitely has physiological

affects in those who abuse it daily. My SIL was in the hospital for a pancreatitis attack (a result of her alcoholism). While there, she suffered DTs, seizures, and other highly dangerous affects from Alcohol withdrawl. She drank all day. From waking moment until she slept. And she'd interrupt her sleep to wake up and drink then go back to sleep.

She survived her Chronic pancreatitis only to be hit by a car (while drunk). Another funny side effect of alcoholism is lack of care when crossing busy streets.

But, there can be severe physical reactions to alcohol withdrawl. You said you partied hard. But if you didn't drink regularly, daily, hourly, etc., you may not have drank enough to have a physical dependency on booze.

[MrSlayer]

95. I was just laid off for 20 months.

And I drank anywhere from 6 to 12 beers and smoked weed every single night that I was out because there was nothing else to do and I like partying. But the second I got called back to work I stopped with no problems at all. I only drink and smoke on non-work nights now and then only if I want to. Sunday to thursday I stay completely clean. I just have that kind of control over myself. I don't get addicted or form dependencies.

[Dorian Gray]

99. You are lucky.

I've seen what it's done to loved ones.

[Skeeter Barnes]

47. It is very irresponsible to suggest to an addict that they go it alone or continue to drink/use.

Horrible advice you are giving out.

[Skittles]

69. big mistake for people to think what works for them can work for everyone

yes INDEED

[MrSlayer]

71. You're right.

I suppose it's like a person with 20/20 vision expecting a person with 20/70 to see what they can see.

[aristocles]

24. I empathize with you

I' m a type A, obssessive compulsive, high IQ. Made a very good living during the dot com boom. I'm now retired, though I do a little consulting on projects that interest me.

I smoked off and on for 40 hears. Quit cold turkey on November 7. 2007 (did I say OCD?). Haven't smoked since.

I drank, sometimes heavily, also for about 40 years. Quit cold turkey on April 28, 2011. Started exercising; mountain biking and free weights. Started following a carb-free, primal diet. Lost over 40 pounds, and kept off.

Everyone is different and unique. That's why it's so hard to find one solution to addiction that works for all.

In my case I turned my OCD tendencies away from self-destructive behaviors to those healthier.

A good couselor will help you find a path that will work for you.

Deus te amat.

[rug]

26. You can click around here.

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/central_offices.cfm?origpage=373

That will take care of tonight. You can take care of tomorrow tomorrow.

[WCGreen]

28. Sober 29 years and counting...

I found that when I tried to quit for other people, like my family or a girlfriend, it never took...

But when I looked in the mirror and said this time it's for me....

Anyway, until you truly realize that drinking is at the bottom of all the crap that drags on you will you be able to quit.

[madville]

31. Thank you all for replying

I'm going to find a local group, been thinking about it for some time and it is time, hopefully find a non religious kind of AA meeting.

These replies let me see there is some hope to stop, it's hard to admit there isn't much control over it mentally since we all want to be tough.

[Dorian Gray]

85. Good luck Madville

It's a difficult road to travel, one often fraught with temporary setbacks. But that you want to do this is huge, and a testament to your character. Good luck in this.

[NMDemDist2]

88. no AA meeting should be religious

while the steps talk about 'God as you understand him' no meeting should be pushing a religion. period.

if they do, find another meeting.

you're welcome to PM me if i can help in any way

[Shankapotomus]

33. I can't say I'm qualified to advise

so take this with a grain of salt:

If drinking is easy for you, find a safe replacement activity that is even easier. Such as listening to music or being in the presence of nature. Pay attention to what activities make you relax without too much effort on your part. Something that taps into a good vein of contentment without being damaging.

[BlueCheese]

34. Good luck.

I don't have any personal experience in this, but I wish you the best in your efforts to beat addiction.

[applegrove]

35. I did the first steps on AA. Really works. Especially the part where you admit you have no

control over your addiction. Was traumatized. That is why I drank. My parents both drank responsibly. My siblings also had no problem with alcohol. So I'd binge drink. Been sober 2 years and am loving it. Once I accepted that whenever I told myself "I could just have one sip and stop" I was in denial....it freed me up. Also quit smoking too. Did Champix/Chantix then after I was quit I only smoked herbal cigarettes when I had a bad crave. They were disgusting. I've been quit those 5 years and I never crave. I'm really happy with both. Self esteem went up when I stopped harming myself with those two addictions. Good luck to you. Both can be done. And your life will be so great once you have two strong quits.

[Rowdyboy]

39. I'm 59...been drinking since I was 17. Next Wednesday I'm having an MRI (roughly $3000) on my liver

They don't know yet but it could be minor. It could also be cirrhosis or cancer. I've got decent insurance and a good support system so I'm okay but I guarantee it will make you think really seriously. I've got a lot to lose-a comfortable life, a tolerable retirement income and a guy who's loved me for 25 years. I'm not ready to hang it up.

Not drunk right now (getting drunk is very rare these days) but I'm buzzed-3 or 4 good beers and a nice glass of wine. Come next Thursday I may be facing a totally different world.

Good luck my friend. I wish you only the best.

[veness]

67. I hope it is minor Rowdyboy. Good luck! n/t

[renate]

80. good luck, Rowdyboy

[steve2470]

83. good luck Rowdyboy ! nt

[Dorian Gray]

86. Gosh Rowdyboy

Best of luck to you.

[LiberalLoner]

94. I hope for the best for you, RowdyBoy.

[Squinch]

104. My thoughts are with you. Keep us posted.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

40. "the last few women I've spent time with were heavy drinkers as well."

Still got their numbers?

[cally]

41. i've been where you are tonight

I hope to never to back. I go to AA and follow the program. It's changed my life. feel free to pm me.

[virgogal]

43. I do what you do and have been doing it for 32 years. Life is good.

[cordelia]

42. AA works for a good many people, but it's not for everyone.

I've been going to AA for a little over 3 years and it has worked wonderfully for me.

It won't cost you anything, you won't have to speak if you don't want to. There should be people available after the meeting to direct you to literature and to share their experience, strength, and hope.

You'll find some groups more to your liking than others. My home group consists of people from all walks of life, and religion is not that prevalent. There will be references to God and a Higher Power, but try to not let that frighten you off. I sponsor an Atheist (I'm not) and that has not presented a problem.

Depending on your alcohol intake, please don't try to detox yourself; withdrawal could lead to seizures, and can be fatal.

Whatever path you choose, best of luck to you.

PM if you like.

[Blues Heron]

44. get the ball rolling on medical treatment

see your doctor. get your liver checked. once you get off it your health will improve! The first weeks are the hardest, but get an alcohol-free streak going and soon you'll be measuring it in weeks, then months, then years.

[Skeeter Barnes]

45. I would look into meetings immediately and getting an assessment at a treatment center very soon.

If you don't have bad withdrawals, they will probably recommend outpatient treatment. Maybe 3-4 nights a week for a few hours with meetings in between. Follow it through to completion or your insurance will not pay a dime on it. The quality of these programs can vary a great deal, in my experience. Choose one with a good reputation that your insurance will pay it's share on it.

Go ahead and seek professional help now and don't be surprised if you have to go back again. It took somewhere between 1-2 years before I stopped thinking about it and craving all the time. You might have to make some changes in your lifestyle. No more bars, no hanging out with the "friends" and girlfriends you used to drink with. There is so much more to life than getting drunk!

Remember, there is not enough booze in the world to make people like us feel better. It only makes things worse.

Whatever happens, do not lose hope. You can always get back on if you fall off and don't rule out AA. I don't go to meetings now but it helped me the first couple of years. Don't let the religious stuff be a deal breaker, it is free help any time you need it. Take what you can use from it and leave the rest. You might even like some of the people you meet.

If you need to talk to someone, feel free to PM me.

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=28

[busterbrown]

46. Your story is typical!!

Going to dinner when I get back we can talk..It’s all about you saying I’ve had enough...and believing it..
Surrendering to our disease...

[JaneyVee]

48. Do you love the taste of beer or do you love being drunk or do you hate both?

[Phillyindy]

49. One question

Do you go 2-3 days between drinking, or did you mean you drink every night and when you try to stop you can only go 2-3 days?

I ask because some people say I have a problem. My thing is binge drinking. Have been doing it since I was 18 or so (I'm 40). I like shots, these days I typically drink a whole bottle of Jäger myself in one sitting over 8-10 hours.

Up until a few years ago, it was only once a week. Then it started on a weekday here and there as well, but never more then twice a week. Now I'm back to once and week, and maybe 1 or 2 weeks a month 2 times.

I never feel I have a problem because I can go without drinking and do, for a whole week or whatever. I just love being hammered. . The reason is because its the only time I let it all go and feel really happy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy in life. I have a great wife, kids, make 6 figures and so on. But the stresses get to me, and I'm still very young at heart. I miss my friends and doing all the things I did when I was younger and free that the job and kids now limit greatly. Others seem to have no problem "growing up", forgetting most of that stuff. Not me, my family and responsibilities always come first, but I still love to party and have fun. And that's what drinking does for me, momentarily.

I realize people will say "find healthier outlets" and so on. I know all that and I do (play sports, write, etc). But I can't shake the need to get plastered at least once a week.

Sometimes I think I should stop, for the obvious health reasons. But I know at least for now that ain't happening. I like it too much and it doesn't effect the rest of my wife much, except for hang overs which piss my wife off.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling.

[Skittles]

68. ".....that's what drinking does for me, momentarily" ".....I can't shake the need"

be aware that your drinking pattern can change at any time.......I remember when I was a smoker, admiring a boyfriend who could just have a cigarette on special occasions - I felt envious because he really enjoyed a smoke whereas I was clearly addicted to nicotine. Well last time I ran into him I had quit smoking, and he was smoking like a chimney.......addictions are insidious and I would say to you BEWARE......binge drinking alone does take a toll and can turn into full-blown alcoholism at any time.

[Phillyindy]

74. I agree, although...

...been doing the same thing for 20 years. Pretty sure if I was going to get addicted I would have. Although admittedly I can't go more then a week without getting drunk, or I'm miserable. But that's not about addiction, that's more about the release it gives me. Not a healthy release granted.

[Skittles]

89. you're "mild" - right now

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268791/Binge-drinkers-reclassified-mild-alcoholics-argue-scientists.html

[Rowdyboy]

50. PM me if you like...I had to quit for a year back in 2007 because I had to have anti-tb meds....

Might have some ideas that could help.

[Kennah]

54. My brother cleaned up in AA

He was 20, and probably had been getting high since he was about 12 or 13. Been clean for 23 years, and currently works as a drug counselor while going through nursing school. Wife, 2 kids, and a house.

[Skittles]

56. madville

please read this article

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2013-07-18/news/knocked-out-of-being-loaded/

[Rowdyboy]

58. What an incredible piece. I can't remember enjoying reading anything more.

[Skittles]

61. I read it a couple weeks ago and it has stuck with me

my brother Glenn who was 11 months older than me died of alcoholism at 48 and I feel enormous sympathy for people battling that hideous disease

What I like about this article is the author doesn't preach - he just states his problem with alcohol as a fact he had to deal with, and the parts with Molly Ivins are pure gold.

[Rowdyboy]

63. Its a gut punch-he doesn't brag or apologise-it is what it is....

I think that's why its so powerful.

And the parts with Molly are priceless. Both she and Ann Richards were heroes to me and my partner. Losing them was like losing aunts. It hurt and seeing her in that light was a real hoot. Can't wait to show it to Michael tomorrow.

[upaloopa]

57. I'm an alchoholic been sober for 29 years now

pm me if you like
we can exchange emails

[MinneapolisMatt]

60. Hey madville

if you ever want to talk, send me a pm. I know how it is.

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. Brave.

[Uncle Joe]

66. Well other than traditional outlets, counseling, AA you might try self-hypnosis,

here's a link to Johnathan Parker's program titled "Build a Winning Self-Image" which allows you to reprogram your subconscious mind.

You can either order books, cassettes or CDs.

http://www.jonathanparker.org/

http://www.jonathanparker.org/search/node/build%20a%20winning%20self%20image

It will guide you through various and multiple self-hypnosis sessions.

You can get them on different subjects Attracting Wealth and Prosperity, Losing Weight, etc. etc.

Building a winning self-image seems to be the broadest most encompassing program which can be used for multiple purposes.

I've used the cassettes and CD's and found them to be quite useful.

Peace to you, madville.

[rufus dog]

70. Quit just a week ago

Been drinking since I was 15, am 51 now. So far not really too bad, other than going to a nurse practitioner who made me blow into a breathalyzer at 10:00 AM on Monday morning then piss into a cup. No real cravings, just trying to stay busy with other stuff.

Will see how it goes from here, hopefully it will remain easy. Have some more appointments to get a physical and a follow up with the nurse next week. Then I will decide to go the AA route or another program.

This was my choice by the way, high stress job, used beer for self medication, finally just decided it was bullshit. (With some strong coaching/influence from the family)

Good luck, you are much further along than I was at your age. Back then it was going out with the boys after a game, or with people from work, which then rolled into slamming down a six pack even if no one was around throughout my forties.

Also thanks to all who posted, a lot of good advice.

[jimlup]

75. Become active in something you really care about...

Something fun ... you need a goal to work towards. That would be the kind of thing that could motivate you to quit.

For me it is mountaineering and running. I think about an upcoming climb and I know I don't want to do anything at all to hamper my chances of success. I'm hard core into mountaineering and this certainly isn't for everyone but something like that that is goal oriented could work...

[cilla4progress]

76. Life-changing thread, perfectly timed

When I opened this thread I didn't know if it was a joke. When I started reading posts, I didn't know what to expect.

I woke up this morning and looked at myself in the mirror. I realized, I feel really good.

Yesterday is the first day in awhile where I "only" had 1 beer and no pot. I do believe I am psychologically (at least) addicted to pot. The combination of booze and pot gives me a nice "pad," insulation from the sad and desperate realities I am, for whatever reason, inordinately constitutionally attuned to: poverty, racism, classism, and the big daddy of them all: climate change.

Sometimes I feel like I am moving through my days in a dreamworld... it feels good.

Well, I "forgot" to smoke a little bowl yesterday, and it was a beer (not hard liquor) day, and I can't drink much of that (at 135 lbs. I am a lightweight in terms of overall volume, but I am, nonetheless, habitutated to a buzz, most days).

It sure was good to wake up without a scratchy throat (pot), fuzzy head, or blurred perception. Will see how long I can go.

The suggestions about being outside in nature and bicycling really speak to me, because they are really accessible to me and I love them, though some days I avoid them because they "interfere" with my drinking and stonage!!

Well, off to read the Molly Ivins letter. Thanks to all for your posts...maybe a turning point for me.

And most of all, thanks for your honesty and vulnerability, madville. I hope you got enough suggestions here, too, to turn it around. You are heard and honored here. Keep us posted, if it is helpful.

[BeyondGeography]

78. That took guts...good luck to you

My only advice is that life is short and precious, especially when measured by the number of healthy, relatively clear-headed days we have. That realization is finally motivation enough not to hurt myself now that I'm on the cold side of 50, but there's no way I'd be better off on my own. I guess that's my way of saying don't underestimate the importance of finding an addiction-free partner who you can love and will love you back.

[Arugula Latte]

79. Please get help.

I know of two people who died recently of alcoholism-related liver deterioration (with pancreatic deterioration in another, as well). They were both late 40s. You can turn this around.

[Electric Monk]

100. Welcome to DU. I hope you don't mind if I copy-paste your post, in case it gets deleted.

sat nam
90. Your second paragraph socked me in the gut--

very raw and real.

I think this is more common that society lets on. I was walking home around 9:30 last Tuesday night and heard the drunken laughter waft out of several bars along the way. I thought that was pretty hard-core, being a Tuesday and all. But then I think of all those guys with their Mon. night football (and Sun. and Thursday) and the typical Saturday night for many people. And those are just the sociable ones!

Have you ever read: "Drinking: A Love Story?" I thought that was such a great memoir. The woman who wrote it has since passed way too young but she left behind a searing look at upscale alcoholism.

Besides the typical urging to explore the spiritual dimension as an antidote to material malaise, I would also recommend attending at least one "Adult Children of Alcoholics" meeting or read a book (Alice Miller is great) because it's a whole system. And even those who get sober can easily become dry drunks and exhibit all the same tendencies as before (expect for the drinking, I mean).

You know it intellectually and so it's only a matter of time that you will trade up to a better reality than this. Good luck.

[Atman]

91. You've made a pretty major step. Maybe AA will work for, but maybe not.

AA has no proven effectiveness. It is literally, statistically no more effective than any other method of quitting. The ONLY thing that matters is that you want to quit. Many people like the camaraderie and community of AA. Many people are put off by the religious aspect (don't let anyone tell you differently, it is God-centered. They aren't talking about your doorknob or whatever when they say "your higher power&quot . There Secular Organization for Sobriety (which, as the name implies, puts the power in YOU, and doesn't tell you you're a worthless, powerless slob), and several other excellent programs if you really, really want to stop. You seem to have made a major first move. Find some support, and whether it is AA or SOS or whatever, just stick with it.

[LiberalLoner]

92. Please check out soberrecovery.com

I'm there pretty often because Im an ACOA. That means I got sick just like the alcoholic and need help.

I accept the help I get from the message boards on that site gladly and gratefully. They are so kind there. Please just go read this or that, you don't have to register unless you want to post. It's not just AA (if you don't like AA I mean, I personally think it is amazing) and you can go there drunk or sober, any time at all. They even have chat rooms!

You never have to feel alone again.

Please, I'm begging you, try that site. I could not save my father or my brother. It would be so nice to see even just one good person rescued from the hell of the bottle.

I love you because you are here and I want better for you than the hell on earth you are living now.

[LiberalLoner]

93. PS this is a really good documentary

It's hard to watch, I won't lie to you, but it's awfully good motivation to try something to get better.

All ten parts are on you tube, I just put the link to the first part. It is called Rain In My Heart


Check out this video on YouTube:

Sent from iPad

[Andy823]

96. I have seen some good advice here

AA can really help, it did for me. I have been clean and sober for 28 years come this October. I had tried to stop several times, to with not much luck, maybe a week sober at the most. When my second wife, a drug user, ran off with another guy I pretty much hit bottom. I was talked into going to an AA meeting by a friend who had lost her job as a nurse because of her addictions. She had gone to treatment, and then to AA and NA meetings. I had my doubts, but went with her to a meeting and met others who had been in the same boat I was. They helped me understand that I was not alone.

The first step is up to you. It won't hurt to find a meeting, and it could be exactly what you need to get on the road to sobriety. Good luck.

[backscatter712]

97. An alternative to AA: the Sinclair method.

I can't say with first-hand experience whether it's effective or not, but there are a lot of people that are raving about the Sinclair method.

The idea of the Sinclair method is that you drink, but before you start drinking, you take an opiate-antagonist like naltrexone, which blocks the pleasure-response your brain has to alcohol through endorphins.

The Sinclair method sets things up chemically in the brain so you don't get that opioid-like hit of pleasure when you drink, so eventually, you naturally tone down your drinking.

It's something to check out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Method

[steve2470]

101. I think a really important point from the response to you is, don't do this alone

The huge benefit of AA, imho, is that you are with "similar sufferers", and people have made the point you don't have to be religious at all to go. I'm not an alcoholic (I have not touched a drop in 7 years for no reason other than saving money), but I've worked with many alcoholics. It's a brand new support system that will really support you when you need them. As long as you keep trying to be sober "one day at a time", someone or somebodies are going to be there for you 24 hours a day.

If you go to several different AA meetings and still can't cope with it, then, yes, by all means, go to another support group listed here. Just go to one faithfully, get known by people, get support, and you will make it. Best wishes to you.

[LiberalLoner]

105. +1 I only suggested an online forum because there is no driving, he can go

There and have immediate support...but real live AA meetings are best of all IMO

[steve2470]

107. yes, online, in person, just WITH others somehow, I applaud your idea ! nt

[Squinch]

106. Madville, I have no advice except to say that, whatever method you choose, you are young

and you can do this.

And don't fail to notice the other people in this thread who have been moved and changed by your post.

I wish you every help in your effort to get control of this.

[jollyreaper2112]

109. Most useful thing I ever read

http://www.cracked.com/article_18824_5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-quitting-drinking.html

Pretty insightful and wickedly funny. You might find something useful in there. Hell, it might already be posted down thread.

[davidpdx]

112. I grew up with alcoholics

I can tell you it affected the choices I made in life. I am not a heavy drinker because it scares the living hell out of me. Also I chose not to have children.

My advice is the same as others, take the first step and do something about it. It may seem like a long road, but someday you will look back and thank yourself.

[progree]

114. Some suggestions for the non-religious (a few for the religious too)

Last edited Sat Mar 8, 2014, 01:04 AM - Edit history (2)

Hi Madville,

Since in your OP you ask for some advice on quitting alcohol, and in your #31 you say "hopefully find a non religious kind of AA meeting", I would like to offer you some resources that worked for me, an atheist. And some others that I've found trolling the interwebs over the years that seem to have helped some.

I'll start with the non-A.A. resources first. Then I'll discuss ways that A.A. may be useful to the non-religious or non-believer in deities.

In the below I use the term "agnostic" in a broader sense of the word to include atheists, freethinkers, non-believers in a deity god and similar.

[font size=5, color=blue] A) Non-12-step, non-A.A. groups - e.g. SOS, SMART Recovery, ... [/font]

# SOS - Secular Organizations For Sobriety / Save Ourselves
http://www.sosSobriety.org
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/sossaveourselves/

# SMART Recovery (Self Management and Recovery Training) - a cognitive approach based on Albert Ellis's Rational Emotive Therapy -
http://www.smartrecovery.org
http://smartrecovery.org/SMARTBoard/

# LifeRing
http://www.unhooked.com/index.htm
http://forums.delphiforums.com/lifering/start

# Women For Sobriety (I don't think they have any face-2-face meetings, its all online)
http://www.womenforsobriety.org

# HAMS: Harm Reduction for Alcohol and Other Substances
http://www.hamshrn.org/index.html

# Harm reduction Yahoo Group that supports both abstinence and moderation http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hamshrn/ (wow, about 700 posts a month = 23/day)

# Rational Recovery (no support groups)
http://www.rational.org

# Moderation Management (for people who wish to reduce their drinking, as well as for those who decide to abstain) - http://www.moderation.org

# Book: "Responsible Drinking - A Moderation Management Approach For Problem Drinkers", Rotgers, Kern, Hoeltzel, 2002. Excellent for those seeking to moderate #AND# those seeking to abstain.

# Agnostic A.A. - see A.A. section

[font size=4, color=blue]A.1) Some other listings (may duplicate above) [/font]

# Alcoholism.about.com's list of Non-Step Support Groups
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/non/Non_Step_Support_Groups.htm

# Addiction and Recovery - non-12-step resources: At the very bottom http://www.soberrecovery.com/links/alternativetreatmentcenters.html

# The Orange Papers - everything that is wrong about A.A. and the 12 step movement, and then some: http://www.orange-papers.org

# The Green Papers - a counter to the Orange Papers on a couple of issues of the effectiveness of A.A. : http://www.green-papers.org


[font size=4, color=blue]A.2) Some non-step online forums[/font]

# Dailystrength.org Alcohol Recovery Without 12 Steps (their ground rule is not bash 12-step or any other kind of support group or recovery method)
http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/alcoholrecoverywithout12steps
-- a mixture of people in non-A.A./N.A. programs like SMART Recovery, SOS, etc.; many following their own paths; secular / agnostic AA/NA; and yes, a few orthodox A.A./N.A. types.

# reddit.com/r/stopdrinking: http://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking - below was a comment someone made in an agnostic A.A. forum: "The most inclusive place I have found is the "StopDrinking" sub-reddit. Seriously, all they care about is supporting people. AA, SMART, therapy, going it alone, atheists, agnostics, die hard theists, everyone (more or less) gets along."

[font size=5, color=blue]B) A.A. (Alcoholics Anonymous) Resources [/font]

[font size=4, color=blue]B.1) Regular A.A. Meetings (see below for Agnostic A.A.) [/font]

How to find A.A. Meetings ( http://www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=28 )

Although A.A.'s literature and Traditions are clear about there being no "musts" in A.A., other than a desire to stop drinking, many A.A. groups pressure you to "work the 12 steps" as written, and discuss them, get a sponsor and do everything he/she says, and go to numerous meetings a week (the infamous 90 meetings in one's first 90 days).

(Many consider the 12 steps religious, as I do, and as do the U.S. courts, and you might find that problematical. Or you might be OK with them, as many agnostics are, by mentally substituting secular wording for the God stuff).

Fortunately, there are many A.A. groups that are less dogmatic and can be a great resource for recovery for even the very independent-minded. Here are some suggestions:

Try groups labeled Topic, Discussion, Speaker, and Big Book in the A.A. group listings. Many people find these kinds of groups to be a relief from the constant hammeriing away on the 12 Steps (which many find an unveiled attempt at proselytization about a generic deity).

Try smaller meetings (less than 20 people), as they tend to be less dogmatic and more informal, usually, in my experience. (One exception is Speaker meetings which are almost always large, but where you can just sit in the back and listen and not interact or talk if you don't want to)

Be patient, keep trying different groups, it’s a matter of trial and error -- consider it an adventure. There are all kinds of groups out there.

As for myself, I got a lot out of some 12-step groups in the early days and years, such as Emotions Anonymous, and A.A., even though I've been a life-long atheist (since about age 12 or so anyway).

Since most cities of any size have several A.A. meetings every day of the week to choose from, they are certainly a resource worth considering if one can put up with the religious overtones. The religiosity (or deity spirituality) is annoying to me, but nobody is required to be religious or believe in a god to be a part of meetings or to "work the program" (see Tradition 3 "The Only Requirement" if you ever get to that point -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/1144962 )

I found that meetings provided mutual support and shared experience, a place to spend time in sobriety and opportunities for additional sober activities outside of meetings, and accountability.


[font size=3 face="times new roman" color=blue]B.1.a) How some agnostics deal with regular A.A. meetings[/font]

[font size=2]# The three Jane L articles - how one atheist interprets the program[/font]

. # "Is there room enough in AA?"
. . . . http://web.archive.org/web/20020225120044/http://www.primenet.com/~jmassie/roomenuf.htm
. # "Step Three: A program Of Action"
. . . . http://web.archive.org/web/20020225120044/http://www.primenet.com/~jmassie/step3.htm
. # "Listening For The Reality"
. . . . http://web.archive.org/web/20020225123559/http://www.primenet.com/~jmassie/reality.htm

[font size=2]# Book: "Living Sober - Some methods A.A. members have used for not drinking",[/font]
by A.A. World Services. It is described by A.A. as "Practical suggestions heard at meetings" in the "Other Books" section on the opening fly leaf of A.A.'s primary book, "Alcoholics Anonymous". Amazingly for an A.A. book, there is very little religiosity or deity-spirituality or "higher power" talk in this 87 page book. A few of the 31 chapters include "Staying away from the first drink", "Using the 24-hour plan", "Live and Let Live", "Changing old routines", "Eating or drinking something — usually, sweet", "Making use of "telephone therapy", "Availing yourself of a sponsor", "Fending off loneliness", "Remembering your last drunk", "Avoiding dangerous drugs and medications", " Seeking professional help", "Finding your own way", and many others.

A full chapter list and summary of what one person considers the key points of each chapter is at http://home.earthlink.net/~briggsmorebeach/Library/LivingSober.htm

Amazingly, for a book with so little "higher power" and "God" talk, but rather practical suggestions, this is A.A. General Service Conference-approved literature.

[font size=2]# Book: "Alcoholics Anonymous" aka (The Big Book). [/font]

While a lot of it is religious (or deity-spiritual), the first 3 chapters and the stories at the end (388 pages worth of those stories) are good reading for anyone (I particularly like Chapter 3). Well in pp. 9-14 in Chapter 1, Bill W. gets into his own religious beliefs (its religious because its about a deity Creator god), but I find that more interesting than annoying. And p. 25-28 in chapter 2 is goddie.

[font size=4, color=blue]B.2) Agnostic A.A. [/font]

# http://www.agnosticAAnyc.org - this lists agnostic / atheist / freethinker meetings throughout the world (most in the U.S. but 18 are outside the U.S.: 8 in Canada, 6 in England, 3 in France, and 1 in Japan) http://www.agnosticaanyc.org/worldwide.html

# A collection of various secular 12 steps
# http://aaagnostica.org/alternative-12-steps/
# http://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/A-Collection-of-Alternative-Steps-2012-07-09.pdf

# SoberRecovery.com's secular 12 step recovery
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/secular-12-step-recovery <-seems majority Stockholm Syndrome agnostics

# AAagnostica.org - lots of fantastic articles on and about agnostics in A.A. and agnostic A.A. groups and agnostic A.A. history, but the comments section is way overly tightly controlled

# aa-atheists.com - this is more web pages than forums

# AA Freethinker Meeting on Tinychat (listed at http://agnosticaanyc.org/worldwide.html#On-Line )
For time, logon, and account details go http://agnosticaanyc.org/Online.html

# Agnostics & Atheists in A.A. (Facebook page / forum) https://www.facebook.com/pages/Agnostics-and-Atheists-in-AA/168374259840358

# Agnostic AA reading material, a few suggestions from agnosticAAnyc.org: http://www.agnosticaanyc.org/MemberZone/Reading.html

# "An Atheist's Unofficial Guide to AA - For Newcomers"
http://www.amazon.com/An-Atheists-Unofficial-Guide-Newcomers/dp/1466209305/ref=pd_sim_b_1
(be sure to scroll down to the "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" section for some other similar books)

[font size=4, color=blue]B.3) If you like Traditional A.A., some additional resources[/font]

# DailyStrength.org's alcoholism support group (not entirely or exclusively traditional A.A., but they are in the majority)
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Alcoholism/support-group