President Obama will not meet with Vladimir Putin on Russia trip if no change in Snowden saga

[Catherina]

Last edited Sun Aug 4, 2013, 06:32 PM - Edit history (7)

Update to add video link: video here http://presspass.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/04/19863000-watch-meet-the-press-august-4-2013?lite

The video link also covers Kentuck's thread "Sen. Saxby Chambliss makes jaw-dropping accusation against Senator Ron Wyden"

Meet The PressVerified account ‏@meetthepress

BREAKING: President Obama will not meet with Vladimir Putin on Russia trip if no change in #Snowden saga - @mitchellreports says on #MTP

http://twitter.com/meetthepress/status/364008658901794817

Face The Nation ‏@FaceTheNation 56s

Schumer urges consideration of moving the G-20 summit away from St. Petersburg #Snowden #FTN

https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/364034455192612866

"I would urge the president to cancel the bilat" with #Putin, who's behaving like a "schoolyard bully," says @ChuckSchumer

Schumer FTN video here:

Schumer: Consider moving G-20 from Russia

Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., on Russia's handling of the Edward Snowden situation, the embassy bomb threat and more.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50152287n

[Fumesucker]

1. Poor Vlad, I'm sure he's heartbroken at this rejection

Sad Vlad from Leningrad.

[Catherina]

2. I really don't get this. They have got to know Putin doesn't really care n/t

[struggle4progress]

147. Maybe you shouldn't try to guess what the White House plans from twits twitter tweets

[Mojorabbit]

178. It really does not make a lot of sense does it? nt

[MADem]

65. I'll bet he is. He SO wanted a chance to smirk at Obama on the world stage.

Now, what would be total "Horse You Rode In On," would be to schedule meetings with the rest of the G20 one-on-one, and send Biden to St. Petersburg.

[BeyondGeography]

76. These people really don't know their Vlad

He lives for the mano-à-mano moment.

[MADem]

82. He probably already ordered new shoe lifts, to give him sufficient height for the pictures!

All that practicing walking around in covert high heels (so not to look like Bush)....for nothing!

[Arctic Dave]

3. Hey Prezident Obama, "I don't care"

Well then Vlad, I'll just go play with my republican friends.

[99Forever]

5. ^^^^There it is^^^^

Brawhahahahahaha.

Thanks for the morning laugh.

[elehhhhna]

18. BHO: "I don't always negotiate, but when I do, it's from a position of weak helplessness."

The most interesting, disappointing man in the world.

[MattSh]

94. I laughed at this one, because, sadly...

it's true.

[nashville_brook]

131. lol!

[Hydra]

153. *bwah!*

funny and true- +1000

[struggle4progress]

166. Do you base all your opinions based on "news" from Twitter?

[elehhhhna]

179. Why yes, I do!

Was talking to you? No.

[struggle4progress]

180. I just wanted to make sure readers knew your opinions were based on what you read on Twitter

[elehhhhna]

186. Eff off.

You're about done here btw.

[PufPuf23]

4. Poor diplomancy by the WH, why insult Putin when there needs to be more dialogue?

[Fawke Em]

55. My first reaction, as well. eom

[Dragonfli]

97. It's very embarrassing that foreign relations have been reduced to something that resembles

"teenage drama" more than anything else.

[on point]

6. Ridiculous silly temper tantrum. The elite is just wrong on this

[Catherina]

7. Totally wrong. They should read less American Enterprise & Heritage and more Chomsky, Pepe Escobar

the Latin American ALBA countries, who snubbed the neoliberal model and whose economies are improving, are getting closer to Russia and China at an accelerated pace. This is just dumb.

[Gman]

8. Obama needs to get over it.

[Catherina]

10. Instead all the WRONG people are being listened to. Now Schumer and the G-20

Face The Nation ‏@FaceTheNation 56s

Schumer urges consideration of moving the G-20 summit away from St. Petersburg #Snowden #FTN

https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/364034455192612866

I don't think our little puppets are going to be quite as compliant with this as they were with Morales' plane.

[AppleBottom]

21. He needs to Move Forward. nt.

[winter is coming]

9. "I'm going to give you another opportunity to humiliate me on the international stage."

If the WH felt compelled to deliver this ultimatum, it should have been done privately.

[Catherina]

12. 'Legally, D.C. is now as powerless as a tribal Pashtun girl facing an incoming Hellfire missile'

Aug 2, '13


THE ROVING EYE
Our man in Moscow
By Pepe Escobar

So what is the "extremely disappointed" Obama administration, the Orwellian/Panopticon complex and the discredited US Congress to do? Send a Navy Seal Team 6 to snatch him or to target assassinate him - turning Moscow into Abbottabad 2.0? Drone him? Poison his borscht? Shower his new house with depleted uranium? Install a no-fly zone over Russia?

Edward Snowden, under his new legal status in Russia, simply cannot be handed over to Bradley Manning's lynch mob. Legally, Washington is now as powerless as a tribal Pashtun girl facing an incoming Hellfire missile. A President of the United States (POTUS) so proud of his constitutional law pedigree - recent serial trampling of the US constitution notwithstanding, not to mention international law - seems not to have understood the message.

Barack Obama virtually screamed his lungs out telling Russian President Vladimir Putin he had to hand him Snowden "under international law". Putin repeatedly said this was not going to happen.

Obama even phoned Putin. Nothing. Washington even forced European poodles to down Bolivian President Evo Morales's plane. Worse. Moscow kept following the letter of Russian law and eventually granted temporary asylum to Snowden.

...

Layers and layers of nuances have been captured in this fascinating discussion at Yves Smith's blog - something impossible to find across Western corporate media. For POTUS, all that's left is to probably boycott a bilateral meeting with Putin next month, on the sidelines of the G20 summit in St Petersburg. Pathetic does not even begin to explain it.

...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-020813.html

[tblue]

47. The world will be rooting for Putin.

And laughing at the floundering bully USA. We desperately need a wise and principled statesman at the helm. Gay people are in danger over there. That's way more important than apprehending a fugitive whistleblower.

[RKP5637]

63. Well said! n/t

[MADem]

71. So, you think a Republican would take that principled stand?

I have a bridge for sale...

[Dragonfli]

103. Can you even read? There was no talk of republicans, I swear this place sounds like kindergarten

[MADem]

109. I can read--you want a leader that isn't like Obama, and his antithesis is a Republican.

If you're "lucky," you'll get a Chris Christie....if you are not, you'll get an RMoney.

[Dragonfli]

121. Again where did you read any of that in my post you are responding to? Can YOU READ?

You use imagination to conjure shit you think you hear rather than responding to actual posts like a lucid person.

How often do the voices in your head replace what others are saying? Perhaps you need help.


I said absolutely nothing about "what type of leader I wanted", you decided for me what the voices in your head told you I wanted, which is quite frankly rather bizarre coming from an adult.

If you wanted to know what type of leader I want, you could have just asked instead of making up out of whole cloth imaginary dialogue. I would have then told you, "I want a leader that isn't like a Republican, that is why I want a REAL Democrat and not an admitted eighties Republican or any Republican for that matter, the antitheses of that would be the Democratic wing of our infiltrated by Republicans modern party."

[MADem]

125. You're right--I wasn't even TALKING to you in the first place--you injected yourself into a

conversation I was having with someone else, and then got shirty and personally insulting with me.

Have a nice day!

[disidoro01]

140. Really

I want a leader that acts like one, one that spends more time plotting regime change overseas than tending to issues at home. I do not want a leader who drones populations into submission.
He's acted more like a republican that a democrat.

[MADem]

151. You want your leaders to plot regime change overseas? Whatever....

You sound like John McCain!

disidoro01
140. Really
View profile
I want a leader that acts like one, one that spends more time plotting regime change overseas than tending to issues at home. I do not want a leader who drones populations into submission.
He's acted more like a republican that a democrat.

[disidoro01]

157. Whoops

Meant that to be less time.
President Obama actually sounds more like McCain.

[Hydra]

154. President Obama's antithesis is not a Republican

It's a Civil Liberties Anti-War Socialist Democrat. And we REALLY need one this time.

[MADem]

155. Well, you might think that, but that's not the candidate that is going to appear as the opposition

candidate to Obama's successor.

If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

[Hydra]

156. I'm aware of that

The 1% own the place. We don't have to cheer for it though, or make excuses for it.

[MADem]

161. Well, if that's how you want to see it, go ahead. I happen to like the Democratic platform and

positions on issues of import to me.

[truebluegreen]

164. Even when elected candidates immediately chuck the Democratic platform

and positions on issues of import to you?

Just askin'.

[Hydra]

172. I took that "positions of import" to mean that they support National Security state or Reaganomics.

At that point, what's to say?

[truebluegreen]

176. Egzactly...nt

[tblue]

190. Did I say that?

???

[MADem]

191. You suggested it. I happen to like the wise and principled leader we have now. nt

[tblue]

193. Who?

[elehhhhna]

14. truefact

[rug]

11. No birthday cake either!

[Catherina]

20. I'm holding out for 'no US supply lines in Afghanistan' in response

but that was funny!

[lordsummerisle]

183. LOL n/t

[Autumn]

13. Good to see the adults in charge. Bush and crew would have started a pissing match.

Oops, never mind.

[Harmony Blue]

15. Putin would steal Obama's bday gifts

I think it is better that the two don't meet haha.

[AppleBottom]

16. Wow, unbelievably poor behavior

What happened to the President's promise of no preconditions in speaking with other world leaders.

[elehhhhna]

19. Well, he's NOT speaking with him, thus no preconditions.

And, btw, what happened to almost everything else Candidate Obama said? Poof. Gone.

[AppleBottom]

29. It just seems to me that Americas image just keeps moving further down the ladder. nt.

[Broward]

17. If no change? Then assure safe passage to a

third country.

[Waiting For Everyman]

22. He's guaranteed to look stupid again.

These are completely avoidable mistakes of his own choosing. There'll be nobody responsible for it but him.

[elehhhhna]

24. Who's advising this guy?

Maybe this guy? (Note his open fly & Pootie's face)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oEbLBCVf1rY/SKLZhCOl1QI/AAAAAAAAADM/lQRDNx_-Fio/s400/bush+fly+open.bmp

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Ah yes, a pudding match is much better.

[greytdemocrat]

25. Wow

I think I can hear Putin laughing from here.

[allin99]

26. Can i assume it's MTP and FTN who are making it sound conditional?

and not anything coming out of the WH or anywhere else? cuz it's not like anyone is expecting things to be reversed, right?

[Catherina]

35. I can't find the exact quotes. I'm watching Schumer on FTN right now. Terror, terror, terror

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50152287n


It's the MTP I want to find.

[fredamae]

27. Dear Lord

My first reaction was: "I'm mad at you and I'm not going to come to your house to play anymore"...
Or is it just me?

[Catherina]

36. It's not just you, this has been going on all week

and all the hardwingers on the left and right have been in full gear. Heritage and AEI are about to lose it. American Thinker has a pathetic article that Obama's not making himself respected as if he should go in there gun's a-blazing to get Snowden. They're waving their USA USA flags hard. It's scary to read the words coming out of their mouths.

[matthews]

150. Nah, we all heard it. nt

[RC]

28. What I read in the OP's OP, is immaturity.

One of the two world leaders doesn't want to meet with the other because some sunlight got spilt on an illegal super secret government program to spy on American citizens? Really? This comes across as childish.

Obama needs or get rid of all the Republicans he has appointed and replace them with more competent people.

[Catherina]

38. This ^^^. More competent people please. n/t

[Rex]

126. When he said all this spying stuff was to make sure there was no one else

involved with the Boston bombing, I was like REALLY? You are going to treat us like we are stupid? How disappointing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Is he taking Vladamir off his Valentine's Day card list? Gonna stick his tongue out at him?

[mick063]

31. Let's get the cold war cranking again.

All part of the plan to increase defense spending.

I knew there was a "legit" reason for chained CPI.

Our newly elected GOP leadership in 2014 will take this "evil empire" theme and run with it. Hell.....Romney was clueless that the cold war was over. Remember, "Russia is our greatest threat"?

Mark my words.

[Catherina]

45. As long as we have cold war warriors like Schumer and McCain around you can bet on it

They never let it die.

Did you see McCain's taunts to Putin a while back, how a Russian "Spring" was coming to an area near him? And the USAID and other NGOs were in it up to their necks. Spring failed and Putin keeps getting re-elected with high approval ratings for his performance on the economy, jobs and PAY that's up 150%. Meanwhile we have fools like McCain blubbering and some people take them seriously.

The "evil empire" excuse can't die. What would the MIC do? Russia was our "threat" with Libya and now a big time threat with Syria and Iran. And they're giving courage to all those little *banana republics* in our *backyard* who are thumbing their noses at us. That was some dysfunctional reset button.

[mick063]

54. Yes

And our Democratic President just handed them a can of gasoline right after the firefighters set the reflash watch.

[Catherina]

80. I hope this story will be *corrected* by the State Department on Monday.

This is of such mind-bending stupidity and I hope people like Carter can get through.

[RKP5637]

78. The profiteers will be licking their chops for $$$$$ 'cause the Russians are gonna get us. n/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

32. That will show him.

[MuseRider]

33. Oh great.

The mine is bigger than yours school of negotiation and foreign relations except when push comes to shove we will negotiate from the standpoint that we don't even have one.

Who has been acting the bully Senator Schumer? It did not work very well did it? So we should get really petty and dig harder.

[WinkyDink]

34. Would rather the headline had mentioned gay rights.

[tblue]

41. I know, right?

Sad. Has Obama said anything about that?

[RKP5637]

74. +++ 1,000 +++ n/t

[LittleBlue]

37. Putin will be deprived of Obama's empty speeches and fake smiles

Take that Putin!

[mick063]

48. That is gonna leave a mark

from:

LittleBlue's biggest fan.

[xiamiam]

50. empty speeches and fake smiles..that's the part that is so baffling

its like there is no there there. It is confusing and had me fooled initially. He said he welcomed a debate on the NSA yet there has been not one bit of movement from him to do that. What he says and what he does are incongruous and have been from the onset of his presidency. Its like a shell that moves his lips and smiles. He is good at campaigning and raising money. Other than that..??

[sabrina 1]

39. How childish. I doubt Putin cares which makes it even more childish.

Hardly anyone cares much about the US and their wars etc anymore. This will probably make a hero out of Putin around the world. We just aren't popular enough to play these foolish games.

Btw, Russia has been asking for the extradition of one of their guys for a while now. The US has ignored those requests.

I guess Putin should have refused to meet with the US because they did not get their way.

So stupid, we are getting worse and worse

[heaven05]

40. like

Putin would care.

[ProSense]

42. I love the reaction

President Obama is "childish" because he's following through on his warning to Russia.

I mean, it's like people thought he was bluffing and that the situation would change simply because of Russia's decision.

Senate pushes sanctions on nations aiding Snowden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023338422

[treestar]

46. This thread has many people who've twisted themselves

so well into a pretzel over Snowden that you see them actively supporting Putin over their own President.

Maybe Putin will let them move to Russia too, to be with their boy!

[mick063]

49. 'Merika

Love it or leave it.

That's it. We have finally become Teabaggers.

[treestar]

53. They used that argument at a point where I did not agree

But the vitriol seen here makes me shake my head to wonder why you stay here.

It's one thing to say we should leave because we don't support a war. Quite another to say we are so wrong/bad that you are rooting for Russia over us.

[mick063]

56. Quite a jump there

Rooting for Russia? I was willing to die facing Russia.

As a veteran, I believe I have earned a small right to stay here.

Why don't you get the hell out?

[treestar]

64. You have rights to order me out due to being a veteran?

That's pretty right wing. They often would claim to be in the military or claim their spouses/children were in the military, and therefore those who were not should shut up.

I remember that distinctly in arguing with right wingers in about 2002-4. Hmmmmm.

Suppose we equal the playing field and make me a veteran, too.

Why are so many on this board rooting for Putin/Snowden over our own country? Gloating that our country is supposed to be looking worse than a country with a history of some of the worst totalitarianism in the world?

[mick063]

68. What a crock of shit

A very lame argument.

No doubt, you have been very revealing here for all to see.

[treestar]

70. No response, due to the fact I've hit a nerve

and you can't deal with it.

[mick063]

77. Yes

You can have the last word.

Since you are doing quite fine with revealing yourself without my help.

[MADem]

83. So have you. Very revealing, indeed. nt

[mick063]

87. And proud of it

Tell me what I have revealed to you?

[MADem]

93. You think that your claim to be a "veteran" makes your (lack of) argument more convincing.

That demonstrates a weakness in your ability to make a case on the merits, rather than on personal ancedote.

I'm an astronaut, how's that?

One astronaut beats a veteran any day, if we're playing "cool job" cards!

[mick063]

99. Yes

I can be told to move to Russia and my service to this nation carries no weight on why I should stay instead.

That makes me "right wing" regardless of my staunch opposition to Neo Liberalism.

I hate to get personal but your argument is truly, honestly pathetic.

[MADem]

104. My "argument" is that your claim to have military service to buttress your argument is bogus.

I am more than a veteran, I'm a military retiree, but I'd never say "Because I served in the military, my argument is the best."

That's what you've done. Right here, for all to see.

[mick063]

115. Your focus is on trivial bullshit then, if I understand you correctly.

I appreciate your service. Your oath to defend the constitution carries weight with me.

I would never ask you to leave the nation because of it.

[MADem]

136. So, it's "trivial bullshit" to make, as your argument, the fact that you must be right because you

served in the military, then?

And one more time--I never DID ask you to "leave the nation" at all, for any reason, so dry those crocodile tears, now!

You're the one who stepped in it, here. Stop getting mad at me because you can't make an argument based on logic and facts, but instead want to fling "Waaah, I was a veteran" and "Waah, you're telling me to leave the country" when your veteran's status doesn't make you--or me, for that matter-- "right" and I never told you to go anywhere. Yet, anyway...

[mick063]

137. You repeatedly bring up the topic of my military service

yet declare it to be inconsequential in a "gotcha" sort of way.

If it is truly inconsequential, why is it the center of your debate?

Does "winning" mean so much to you, that you must dwell upon it?

I called for you to find a post from me, centered on an actual issue, that I must defend.

You reply is that nobody cares that much. Yet the fact that I claim my service, as a credential for not leaving this nation, to another person, is highly interesting to you. Enough interest that you must make multiple replies to such an 'inconsequential" topic.

[MADem]

141. You hung your argument on it. Maybe next time, you won't.

I don't have a "debate" here. I'm simply pointing out the absurdities in your remarks.

The one who seems to be worried about "winning" here is the one who stuck his foot in it about his military service, and continues to double down about that, and demand that people look up his posts-- like anyone gives a hoot about them (hint--the answer is no, no one cares about your previous posts).

Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine who defected to Russia--military service means NOTHING when it comes to where people decide to live. Why you'd even drag it into the conversation as a "gotcha" is beyond me.

And if you don't like 'multiple replies' you know to fix that.

[bahrbearian]

143. You do know about debating people with high post counts, right?

Last edited Sun Aug 4, 2013, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)

You never get the last post, they think they own the place.
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Rude and over the top personal attack.

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[mick063]

145. I let the thread speak for itself.

n/t

[MADem]

79. +1000.

I'm astounded at how many have showed their hand. It's not hard to figure out where some of them really stand when it comes to political/party affiliation.

Oh well--it's all on their Official DU record! There are no secrets anymore!!

[mick063]

92. I belong to the old Democratic Party

I have voted that way for forty years.

I am honored to join your Hall of Fame.

Now dig up a post reference to me, that pertains to actual policy instead of a pissing match, and force me to defend it.

I'm ready for it. Go ahead.

[MADem]

101. I'm not sufficiently interested in you to "dig up" anything, never mind stuff you in a Hall of Fame.

That's quite a bit of hubris you're hauling around, that you should even presume people care that much!

I will point out how you're coming across in this thread.

And trust me, it ain't like a member of the "old Democratic Party," not by a long shot --- unless you're talking about the pre-Civil Rights Act contingent that embarrassed the larger party for so many years, and eventually flipped over to the GOP. They had a tendency to use things like "military service" to suggest that some people were more worthy than others.

I don't think you want to associate yourself with that crew...?

[mick063]

113. I know one thing for sure.

I certainly don't care about you or your following of a political deity.

There was a time I was indifferent to Snowden, but thanks to people like you, with apparent political capital invested, who appear to fear Snowden a great deal, I am starting to favor him a bit more each day. It is the very act of desperation that makes him more appealing to me.

Those that do not approve of blanket surveillance by the NSA grow weary of the fox hunt. It is the desperation which forces us to make notice. On the range of international issues to skip a meeting with Putin, our President has chosen Snowden. I disagree with this diplomatic priority. I will ridicule the President as I see fit for it.

And this veteran will take your ungrateful attitude, suggesting I leave a nation whose constitution I swore to defend, and wear it as if a crown jewel. I am on the right side of this. You are simply bowing with fealty. A blind defender. I have seen it all before. It leads to nowhere.

[MADem]

117. Good for you. Pat yourself on the back. Feel terribly smug, too! Have a nice day!!

But do learn to read--I never once suggested you "leave a nation"--I suggested you stop using your military service as an argument for your POV.

Try reading what people write. It's helpful when having something called a "conversation."

[mick063]

119. You staunchly defend the person that chose to do so.

You take up his argument and belittle my service.

I cannot tell you apart.

[MADem]

123. You keep telling us that your military service makes you right, and falsely accuse me of telling you

to leave the country, when I did nothing of the sort.

Your attention to detail is poor, as is your argument.

I can spot you coming a mile away...

[John2]

108. Nobody is

rooting for Russia and nobody hates them either. They are just standing up for their principles. In this case, they agree with Putin and do not agree with Obama. President Obama works for the people that voted him in office, they do not work for him.

He needs to fire some advisors giving him bad advise, just like they did in his first debate. He needs to stop putting neocons and republicans in his Administration. That is what he needs to do and get more Liberals in there. His Administration will be the better for it. He needs to get rid of all those Warmongers, and get some peace activists working for him. I would advise him to get rid of those Wall Street people and get somebody from Labor working for him too. He needs a real Civil Rights Attorney to prosecute the abusers of individuals' Civil Rights. If he wasn't going to do that, then he should have ran in the Republican Party. We didn't hire him to compromise or enact the Republican agenda. We hired him to fight them.

This is the second time Putin has got our President pouting. He did it at the G-8 too with his speech against the Syrian Rebels. Especially with his speech about aligning ourselves with flesh eating people and the same people that attacked us on 9\11. The Taliban shouldn't have no base near a U.S. Base in Qatar. That is exactly what he told President Obama. The Western Media want reveal the real lashing Putin gave the leaders of the U.S., Britain and France but some media in Britain got hold of what went on in that meeting. What was seen in Public wasn't so friendly or cordial behind closed doors. He actually pushed Germany towards his side which disrupted arming the rebels and hurt the push Holland and Cameron was making in their countries. Putin had the Big Three speechless, the way he lectured all three.


The President needs to show humility when he is wrong on an issue. He is wrong on the Middle East and he is wrong here. He is getting bad advice. He needs to stop listening to McCain, Kerry and Netanyahu too. Listen to your General Dempsey.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. "America, Love it or Leave it"? I remember hearing that before.

[treestar]

57. There is a point where it is so

apparently. You've reached it.

We did not fail to love it because we didn't support the wars post 911 as the freepers claimed.

But we weren't rooting for Al Qaeda over the US at that point.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. Rooting for Al Qaeda?

What in the hell are you talking about? This thread is about Obama's childish behavior as president.

[treestar]

67. And I introduced a point where

You are calling Obama your own President "childish" over opposing Putin's actions and wanting to do something to express that disapproval.

And noting in general there are many posters who are so blinded by their Snowden love that they apparently have failed to see that they are supporting Putin over Obama.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. What does Al Queda have to do with it?

And, I still think he's behaving childishly, not only in his behavior towards Putin but in his pursuit of whistle blowers like Snowden and Manning.

[MADem]

89. Well, the guy who jails girl groups, who has a brutal anti-equality policy, and who kisses fish

is just so .... DREAMY!!!!

What's NOT to love?

[mick063]

62. Take your exclusive crap and shove it.

This is my country as well. You offer nothing, nothing of value except building my resolve.

I thank you for the renewed vigor.

[treestar]

69. Now I've hit a nerve!

You've lost the argument.

[mick063]

73. My god

Fumbling to find my laughing emoticon.

You are quite the debate champ.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

110. You haven't said anything of consequence.

You rambled some lie about people rooting for al Qaeda after telling another member he should leave the country. Are you impressed with your semi-coherent posts to the point you're declaring yourself a winner? Noted.

[bahrbearian]

139. Your too funny! here are the results of your alert.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=inbox&view=1145077

[Scurrilous]

116. Amazing isn't it.

This place is an absolute hoot!

[RKP5637]

171. Just reading the posts I feel like I'm walking across an earthquake prone minefield!

[Number23]

169. Threads like this are the reason these people are on DU

Stirring the shit with no clue what they are talking about. But at least it keeps them off of the streets.

[BeyondGeography]

58. Where were all these proponents of "adult behavior" when Vlad kept Kerry waiting

for three hours and showed more interest in playing with his pen when he finally showed up?

What a joke.

[ProSense]

66. Transparent.

The mocking is likely because the President's move could result in Snowden being returned to the U.S.

As I said before, Snowden's lawyer is in control of Snowden, and can Russia really be trusted?

An “exhausted” Edward Snowden will have his own choice of accommodation, has no current plans to leave Russia, and still misses his girlfriend, according to his Russian lawyer Anatoly Kucherena.

“Snowden can live in a hotel or rent a flat in Russia,”said Kucherena, who has repeatedly spoken on behalf of Snowden, while his client was trapped in the transit zone of Sheremetyevo airport for over a month. “But the personal safety issue is a very serious one for him."

<...>

Kucherena said that Russia had no plans to prevent Snowden from leaving the country at any moment, saying the whistleblower may even choose to return to the US to face multiple criminal charges. But when asked if Snowden still plans to seek asylum in South America, as appeared to be his original plan, he insisted that Snowden has “no intention to travel abroad as of now”.

Edward Snowden will be entitled to Russian citizenship after spending five years in the country, though the procedure has been speeded up before for high-profile public figures, such as actor Gerard Depardieu.

http://rt.com/news/snowden-russia-kucherena-mills-914/

One gets the impression that someone else is making Snowden's decisions.

[rug]

148. Because on this date, when the President stands up Putin, Putin will revoke Snowden's asylum?

Wow, what a pushover.

[MADem]

135. That's an excellent question. I wouldn't hold my breath to get answers from 'em, though. nt

[rug]

146. Shunning is a hell of a sanction.

[Zorra]

43. Huh. You'd think they'd be more upset about Russia crushing LGBT folks under its fascist bootheels.

Seriously, apparently our leaders getting their feelings hurt by one person exposing illegal acts, lies, and corruption, and then fleeing to Russia, is more serious to them than Russia denying innocent people their democratic inalienable human rights, and actively oppressing, persecuting, and jailing us and our allies for no rational reason whatsoever.

This is a very sad reflection on the priorities of our government.

*sigh*...It's really just all about (the interests of) business, as usual.

Gays in Russia Are Under Attack — Here's How You Can Help Them

On Friday, an LGBT activist stood alone in St. Petersburg, Russia with a gay pride flag that read, “This is propagating tolerance.” The article on this young man was written by The New Civil Rights Movement, and was titled, “You’ll Have No Idea How Much Some Russians Hate Gays Until You Watch This.” The videos within the article demonstrate the depth and barbaric nature of the hate some Russians feel towards gays. Worst of all, this is a drop in the bucket in terms of the violence and oppression of gays in Russia.

It is not only activists that are being attacked. There are innocent teenagers being targeted and lured by anti-gay radicals who interrogate, and in some cases torture. It is clear that no gays are safe in Russia. How could they be safe when there is a law that bans any support for gay rights?

The government clearly has no intention of listening to the group it is essentially trying to erase from society. In addition to this, we have lunatic citizens enacting their own forms of street justice against gays. In all of this controversy, violence, and sadness, there has been little to no effective advocating and protesting on behalf of gays in Russia. While being gay in the United States is immensely far from perfect and peaceful, it is clear that our government is taking steps forward (repeal of DOMA, dismissal of Prop 8), while the Russian government has taken an enormous step backwards. It is clear that activists, protesters, and advocates need to be louder and more passionate than ever before.

The first step to fighting for gays in Russia is to be informed. On July 21, the New York Times published an opinion piece on the anti-gay law and Russia’s President Vladimir Putin. The article explores the declaration of the law by Putin and not only reveals the deception, inconsistencies, and falsities in Putin’s so-called logic, but also examines this anti-gay sentiment in a historical context. The New York Times and nearly all major publications and news outlets are covering this issue. It is important to try and keep up-to-date on what is going on. Strong sources of information include the Times, Huffington Post, Towleroad, Raw Story, Advocate, Guardian, and many more. PolicyMic writers have also written strong articles on the topic. Check out “This Dutch Activist Was Arrested For Even Talking About Gay Rights in Russia,, “Will Russia’s Anti-Gay Laws Lead Protestors to Boycott the 2014 Olympics?” and “Russia Gay Propaganda Ban: Speaking in Defense of Gay Rights Now a Crime in Putin’s Russia”.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/57971/gays-in-russia-are-under-attack-here-s-how-you-can-help-them

Protests, boycott calls as anger grows over Russia anti-gay propaganda laws

Moscow (CNN) -- An international backlash against Russia's anti-gay propaganda law is gathering speed, from calls for a boycott of the 2014 Winter Olympics in Russia to gay bars in Los Angeles planning "vodka-dumping" protests.

A number of bars worldwide have also stopped serving Russian vodka to protest Russia's stance on homosexuality.
snip---
Implemented last month, after President Vladimir Putin signed it into law, it bars the public discussion of gay rights and relationships anywhere children might hear it -- and has been condemned by Russian and international rights groups as highly discriminatory.
snip---
Human Rights Watch described the anti-gay propaganda law as "a profoundly discriminatory and dangerous bill that is bound to worsen homophobia in Russia."

The move should be set against a backdrop of increased attacks in Russia on members of the LGBT community and gay rights activists, it pointed out.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/europe/russia-gay-rights-controversy/

[wtmusic]

60. +1

[limpyhobbler]

95. You'd think that, if the USA was concerned with human rights.

Completely wrong priorites. USA seems to be good pals with Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, etc.

Not exactly LGBT-friendly places.

No, what matters is here is simply defending the honor of the security state by capturing and punishing the person who disrespected it.

[RKP5637]

173. K&R !!! n/t

[xiamiam]

44. we need a grown up to advise him..this is just embarrassing and childish..nt

[JVS]

52. It's time for Putin to show off his Super Bowl ring.

[QC]

72. SO NYAHHHH!

[darkangel218]

91. Lmao!! this pic is priceless!

[magical thyme]

81. idiotic move, if true. Maybe the Prez just doesn't feel like meeting with Putin and is using this as

an excuse?

Weak and ineffectual, either way.

They would have been much better off downplaying their upset over Snowden. Sheesh. Nothing like demonstrating your growing weakness for all the world to see.

[ProSense]

86. Why is it "idiotic"? n/t

[magical thyme]

96. I highly doubt Putin will change his policy toward Snowden in order to placate the Prez.

In which case, it just demonstrates again to the world that when we say jump, nobody asks how high. They just shrug and continue on their way.

I suppose next Schumer will threaten to hold his breath til he turns blue if Putin doesn't obey us.

It reminds me of the time my mother was screaming abuse at me because she dreamed I told her I hate her. She screamed that she wasn't going to speak to me until I apologized to her for her dream.

Seriously? Is that a threat or a promise? I had a week of blessed silence before she couldn't hold out any longer.

[ProSense]

100. You're

"I highly doubt Putin will change his policy toward Snowden in order to placate the Prez."

...sure about that? Do you put it beyond Putin to trade Snowden for anything?

[magical thyme]

107. trading and placating are two different scenarios.

but I don't think they'll change their 1 year temporary pass to Snowden in trade.

What do we have that they need? Fracked gas?

[ProSense]

118. And that would make a difference? n/t

[magical thyme]

138. what would make a difference? I don't think Putin will renege on his deal with Snowden

he stands to gain more in the eyes of the world by sticking to the deal. I expect they'll help Snowden get to S.A. to get rid of him, as opposed to handing him to the US.

And trade and placate are 2 totally different things. Nice try, though.

[Catherina]

88. A few days ago, I read an insider saying he wouldn't go see him

if he couldn't get advance assurances he wouldn't come back empty handed on Syria and missile reduction. I'm trying to find that now but it's hard without a program like XKeyscore to trace my tracks lol.

I think this is a mistake. Trying to move the G-20 would be total folly. WTF is wrong with Schumer to even suggest such a thing?

[limpyhobbler]

84. Idiotic move by Obama, or whoever the real decider is.

Turning the case of a criminal fugitive into an international diplomatic crisis for no reason.

It's like the government is being run an angry child who couldn't get his candy bar in line at the grocery store, so no he's going to throw a temper tantrum.

They (teamNSA) are hell bent in making an example of Snowden, and have shown they are willing to provoke international incidents in order to get their way. Including this, and also when they blocked the Bolivian President's plane.

The people making these decisions are a bunch of dangerous idiots who can't be trusted.

[ProSense]

90. "Turning the case of a criminal fugitive into an international diplomatic crisis for no reason."

Seems you stated the reason: "criminal fugitive"

[magical thyme]

102. criminal fugitive only in their own minds...

a whisteblower who exposed their dirty laundry in the minds of most of the world.

They would have been far smarter to have downplayed Snowden. What's done is done. Instead they look like somebody who has totally lost it trying to smack an annoying mosquito. Their house is on fire, but dammit they're going to get that mosquito or else!

[limpyhobbler]

105. "Seems you stated the reason"

that would be an idiotic phony reason.

There are lots of criminal fugitives. From lots of countries. Some are able to receive asylum in other countries.

It's certainly not worth provoking international diplomatic crises.

Unless maybe you are with teamNSA,

Then the only real priority would be defending the honor of the security state by capturing and punishing the person who disrespected it.

Obama has taken the side of the world's most powerful shithead bullies. They are willing to do whatever it takes to capture the person who disrespected their authority by releasing information that should have been public in the first place.

[ProSense]

122. Why

that would be an idiotic phony reason.

There are lots of criminal fugitives. From lots of countries. Some are able to receive asylum in other countries.

...because you don't like it? The President's objectives regarding this "criminal" fugitive is known. He issued a warning, and he's following through.

Snowden fans may not like it, but that is the reality.

[limpyhobbler]

128. Because there are lots of more dangerous criminals on the loose than Snowden.

But we don't start international crises over them.

Snowden embarrassed the security state and called them liars. They are liars.

He called into question their HONOR.

Honor is important to them. It's all they have.

The quest to capture Snowden is a personal vendetta of the US security state bullies.

They will even use tactics that may cost the US or embarrass our country in other ways, because they are on a very personal mission to defend their own honor.

What we have here is a part of the government that is on its own mission and is unaccountable and uncontrollable by the regular government. Obama seems to be their spokesman right now.

[ProSense]

129. That has nothing to do with the situation, and it's your opinion. n/t

[limpyhobbler]

134. Well that's your opinion. nt

[RKP5637]

106. And void of negotiation skills. Putin was just given the upper hand IMO. n/t

[cantbeserious]

85. An Obama Temper Tantrum - Rather Childish And Rather Unusual

eom

[PDittie]

98. Too petulant

for a confident person. Not encouraging.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

114. Keeping ones word would be a show of confidence though no?

Unless my memory is wrong didn't Obama say a while back that he'd drop the meeting with Putin if the Snowden situation moved in the direction it has?

So personally I fail to see the childish aspect of this since he is actually doing what he said he would.

[former9thward]

175. Who says he is canceling the meeting?

Other than some tweets in the OP no other news service is reporting any cancellation. Even NBC which supposedly reported it has nothing on their webpage.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

188. No real clue

just wanted to point out to many in this thread that its not childish for somebody to do to what they have said they would in the past(insofar as it makes sense to stick to it.)

[ZombieHorde]

111. Has President Obama considered holding his breath until Putin gives in? nt

[tritsofme]

112. These naive and childish attacks on the President are amusing.

This is the right response. Putin needs to know there will be consequences for his behavior. I agree with Schumer that they should consider moving the summit out of Russia.

[darkangel218]

120. I doubt Putin cares.

[tritsofme]

127. Perhaps, but he sure would have gotten a message of weakness.

If Obama still met with him.

[darkangel218]

130. I disagree.

I think a good relation between US and Russia is more important than Snowden. Are we gonna go back to the cold war era of embargoes over a whistleblower?

[tritsofme]

132. Well if Putin doesn't care, it should be NBD.

But seriously, it is Putin who is threatening relations by his actions with Snowden, it is a deliberate slap at Obama. Obama would be perceived as weak if he rewarded this behavior with a personal meeting, and despite any public protestations otherwise, facetime with with President of the United States is pretty valuable and desired by world leaders, if for no other reason than their own propaganda purposes.

[Number23]

170. Of course it's the right response. Why do you think so many here are saying the complete

opposite? Proving every day why they are becoming more marginalized and ignored by the second.

Most people will understand the president's decision but for the 20 or so in GD who think that this shows "immaturity" as if that makes even the tiniest scintilla of sense.

He will be fine and the know nothings will continue to bray. Nothing will change. EVER.

[Rex]

124. Then why go?

Please, just cancel the trip then.

[gulliver]

133. A Putin vs. Obama popularity contest on the world stage.

I wonder how that will turn out. Putin must not be that smart. All those pictures of him riding horses and walking around without a shirt point to a first class asshole, the kind of guy only a George W. Bush can make look smart.

I'll go out on a limb here and say Putin got caught in a zugzwang.

[DirkGently]

142. The madder we seem, the weaker it looks. Churlish & ineffectual.

[struggle4progress]

144. Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney, 8/1/2013

... Q Will the President now not go to Moscow in September as originally planned?

MR. CARNEY: I don't have a scheduling announcement for you today. But obviously this is not a positive development. And we have a wide range of interests with the Russians, and we are evaluating the utility of a summit ...

MR. CARNEY: We see this as an unfortunate development, and we are extremely disappointed by it. We’ve made clear that there is legal justification for Mr. Snowden’s return, that he would be accorded full rights accorded to defendants in this country and protections under our system of justice. And in terms of motivations for a decision like this, I would leave Russian authorities to describe them.

Q What are the diplomatic repercussions for this move? Are there some options that you can take other than what’s --

MR. CARNEY: Well, I’m not -- again, I think -- Darlene asked me about Moscow. I made clear that I don't have an announcement today. We are evaluating the utility of a summit in light of this and other issues, but I have no announcement today on that ...

Q Jay, what do you think the Russians are up to? Obviously, by granting Mr. Snowden temporary asylum, they must have known that this was not going to go over well here at the White House.

MR. CARNEY: I suspect they did, yes.

Q But they did it anyway. So what do you think they're up to?

MR. CARNEY: Well, I was just asked that question. I’m not going to ascribe motives. I think Russian officials can speak for themselves. We are obviously extremely disappointed in this development. We have a broad and important relationship with Russia. It encompasses areas of cooperation and agreement, as well as areas of disagreement and conflict ...

Q Jay, you said a little bit earlier that the White House is “evaluating the utility of a summit.” Does that mean that the White House is evaluating the G20 Summit in St. Petersburg? Will you continue -- and perhaps you wouldn’t go to Russia at all? Or are you referring exclusively to --

MR. CARNEY: I’m referring to the bilateral summit in Moscow.

Q So without a doubt, we will travel -- the White House will travel to St. Petersburg?

MR. CARNEY: I have no changes in our travel plans to announce ...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/08/01/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-812013

[disidoro01]

149. It is the G-20

The USA doesn't have veto rights on where it is held and this was planned long in advance. It's the height of arrogance to even suggest moving it or cancelling it. Certainly the US can not attend but do people really think that China along with 17 other countries are going to go along with canceling this?

[struggle4progress]

158. What's your evidence the US won't go to the G20, aside from some twits twitter tweets?

[disidoro01]

159. What the

heck are you talking about??

[struggle4progress]

165. The claims in the OP regarding the President all come from Twitter. Speculating

about what the President will or will not do, based on such evidence, is silly

[disidoro01]

174. no

You asked me what MY evidence was. I never said the US wasn't going, I said they didn't have to but others were not likely to boycott.

[struggle4progress]

177. There's currently no chance the US will skip the G20:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3368720
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3368725
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3368730
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3368737
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3368742
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3403683

[disidoro01]

189. Could you

perhaps change your name to Struggle4comprehension? You are arguing with me over a point I never made.

[Turbineguy]

152. Obama

was elected to represent the U.S. Snowden was not. So why does Obama allow Snowden to set the agenda?

[darkangel218]

162. The 1% tell him he must stand his ground.

Why would he create problems by disagreeing with them?

[reusrename]

160. The Snowden argument is childish; he shouldn't meet with Putin because of Stalin!

[Catherina]

167. Ok, now I'm laughing lol

[bornskeptic]

163. Am I to take it that no one cares that this is someone's totally unsubstantiated conjecture?

I'd put the odds that it turns out to be false as about 19 to 1. Yet some posters seem to think that the president actually made a threatening announcement to this effect, which, of course, will never happen.

[Scurrilous]

187. Please...

...you ruining perfectly good poutrage.

[Catherina]

168. Just updated the OP to add the video link

Update to add video link: video here http://presspass.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/04/19863000-watch-meet-the-press-august-4-2013?lite

The video link also covers Kentuck's thread "Sen. Saxby Chambliss makes jaw-dropping accusation against Senator Ron Wyden"

[tman]

181. OP IS INCORRECT

Based on an out of context tweet.

I'll go with the NYT...

He will still be meeting Putin as put of the G20 meeting, but seems to cancelling a separate Russia-US Moscow summit over a host of issues that appear to be bearing little fruit, such as a new START treaty, disagreements on Syria, and now snowden.

...but don't let facts get in the way of an anti Obama Putin lovefest.

[Catherina]

182. That's exactly what the tweet says lol!

"President Obama will not meet with Vladimir Putin on Russia trip".

There's even a VIDEO with more context for those who read too quickly.

[tman]

184. Now read your thread title...

Which along with the tweet is infact incorrect.

He will be meeting Putin on his Russia trip.

He will also be cancelling a separate Russia-US summit.

[Catherina]

185. I'm sorry you have trouble understanding n/t