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boston bean

(36,218 posts)
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 10:54 AM Aug 2013

The Sexist Men in Tech Need to Grow Up, Now

These days, I've seen many breathless posts about how 'we' "need" to encourage girls to study math so eventually they become computer or other sorts of geeks.

Personally, I don't think technology is the only valuable thing in the world; writing, music, and the rest of the arts, medicine, human relations, politics, and so on are pretty important things too, and let's face it content was, is, and will always be king.
That said if men continue to act like jerks, it is no wonder women will go into anything but technology.

Over the past few days, there were numerous reports out of Blackhat / DEFCON about blatant sexism.

The first, that CISCO had a 'pose with a babe' opportunity
@CiscoSecurity: Tweet us a picture with our Raven girls at Booth 101! #BlackHat
The tweet, and the picture have since been deleted, after the denizens of Twitter tore them a new one.

However, it didn't stop there. Apparently there were presentation slides filled with comely women, and the best yet! Some idiot hired STRIPPERS to play a public game of 'Hacker Jeopardy'.
@0xabad1dea

Of course after checking morning twitter I learn defcon had strippers at jeopardy or something. Of only one gender, of course.
@DrPizza
That a girl was being stripped as a reward at hacker jeopardy at #defcon was pretty incredible.

This has to stop NOW.


http://www.circleid.com/posts/20130803_the_sexist_men_in_tech_need_to_grow_up_now/
131 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Sexist Men in Tech Need to Grow Up, Now (Original Post) boston bean Aug 2013 OP
You are seriously telling me that CISCO might have used attractive women... Pelican Aug 2013 #1
I'm seriously posting an article from a male tech worker from a tech blog. nt boston bean Aug 2013 #3
Have you been in a work place in the past thirty years? BainsBane Aug 2013 #19
Lemme check... Pelican Aug 2013 #20
Look up EEOC law BainsBane Aug 2013 #21
I had no idea that the 14th amendment prohibited booth babes or strippers... Pelican Aug 2013 #23
That's what happens when you spend so much time BainsBane Aug 2013 #24
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #29
It comes as no shock at all that you fully support hostile workplaces kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #79
I disagree... Pelican Aug 2013 #85
It's not about "What [you] should or should not find sexuall appealing." It's about what's nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #114
I second that. Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #112
"Booth babes or strippers"?!? chervilant Aug 2013 #37
Doesn't bother me in the slightest... Pelican Aug 2013 #39
How telling... chervilant Aug 2013 #42
You are the one that seems so focused on what's in my pants... Pelican Aug 2013 #52
Don't like it, huh. Join the club of women who don't boston bean Aug 2013 #54
Do you read? Pelican Aug 2013 #55
Well you did seem somewhat bothered by someone concerning themselves boston bean Aug 2013 #57
Check again... Pelican Aug 2013 #67
You don't care. So? boston bean Aug 2013 #69
Experiences of what? Pelican Aug 2013 #72
yeah, I'm fascinated by your "wedding tackle"angle. boston bean Aug 2013 #74
What makes you think anyone has the slightest interest? BainsBane Aug 2013 #121
Epiphany!!! chervilant Aug 2013 #88
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #94
I prefer to discuss chervilant Aug 2013 #119
It's hard to discuss it in gender neutral terms NewThinkingChance40 Aug 2013 #122
I've done advocacy for survivors of relationship chervilant Aug 2013 #124
Have you learned the lesson yet? Soundman Aug 2013 #101
What you are saying is not the truth and is a sexist characterization. boston bean Aug 2013 #106
... Sheldon Cooper Aug 2013 #111
What does any of this have to do with "finding women attractive"? nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #115
I notice that there are even fewer than half a dozen men here insisting that it is fine to Squinch Aug 2013 #125
It's not about "pictures of attractive women." It's about creating a pervasively uncomfortable nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #113
'computer or other sorts of geeks.' markiv Aug 2013 #2
This article addresses sexist tech men, why are you taking such offense? boston bean Aug 2013 #4
i think i've already stated my case nt markiv Aug 2013 #5
yep, you have, and so did he. And so did many others. boston bean Aug 2013 #7
how much experience do you have working in real corp IT departments? markiv Aug 2013 #10
I have almost two decades. Why would that matter? boston bean Aug 2013 #12
i'm saying that he paints a broad brush implying that such attitudes markiv Aug 2013 #13
I'm saying you are denying an absolute fact that this happens. boston bean Aug 2013 #14
that's ludicrous markiv Aug 2013 #15
HA HA.. you're too funny. boston bean Aug 2013 #16
it's about marketing, not tech workers markiv Aug 2013 #17
Well, when my work sends me to a conference, I am there professionally. boston bean Aug 2013 #25
Wow, just wow. undeterred Aug 2013 #28
Some folks just NEED to be right. You seem to be dealing with one of them. cleanhippie Aug 2013 #34
Ah, yes, the ol' sex sells argument, chervilant Aug 2013 #40
OFFS. This is possibly the most disingenuous reply I've read here. Who the hell do you Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #68
disingenuous? markiv Aug 2013 #116
I never called you anything at all, and specifically, I didn't call you a troll, but what you wrote Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #123
if you look at my posts on this site markiv Aug 2013 #126
I don't think we are in disagreement on the issues. The point I tried to make to you is that our Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #129
we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one markiv Aug 2013 #131
Is the tech field worse than other fields? Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #6
It's everywhere, but this article is about tech conferences. boston bean Aug 2013 #9
wow. if your company has an equal amount of women - it's a rarity and that will bettyellen Aug 2013 #18
We were presenting at a conference once, my boss said I could man the booth if I wore falsies peacebird Aug 2013 #8
Harumph harumph. nt rrneck Aug 2013 #11
35 years in IT. IME, this has been & remains an issue. n/t Triana Aug 2013 #22
The deniers are out in full force in the face of cold hard facts. boston bean Aug 2013 #27
They can deny all they want. My 35 years of experience tells me otherwise. n/t Triana Aug 2013 #36
+1 Hear, hear, and how. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #73
Long Term IT career too... HipChick Aug 2013 #97
Newsflash, lots of men like to watch strippers quinnox Aug 2013 #26
It's a friggin big deal if men are watching strippers in a work enviorment.... Little Star Aug 2013 #30
exactly Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #32
i would not want my employer providing male customers with strippers Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #31
You might want to re-think your position re:watching strippers at work and/or having them provided KittyWampus Aug 2013 #49
that's the problem treestar Aug 2013 #99
Anyone familiar with the misogyny of the car business? DainBramaged Aug 2013 #33
funny you posted that cause I am thinking of the quintessential car show babes at the booth KittyWampus Aug 2013 #44
That is exactly what has infiltrated these tech conferences. boston bean Aug 2013 #47
Go on You Tube and look for the SEMA show DainBramaged Aug 2013 #56
no thanks. nt boston bean Aug 2013 #76
You're absolutely right, but women sales people are much more common in the west. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #77
k&r for the end of sexism and racism Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #35
Yeah... Tien1985 Aug 2013 #38
yeah, right on boston bean Aug 2013 #41
Well, you sure chervilant Aug 2013 #43
It's simple really. Just post about issues women face boston bean Aug 2013 #45
Most men don't face those issues, so to many of them, those issues don't exist. Triana Aug 2013 #75
So true, unfortunately. chervilant Aug 2013 #89
and he takes that as an opportunity to brag about his junk. boston bean Aug 2013 #90
Yes, sad really. eom chervilant Aug 2013 #91
I don't understand why he feels the need to dismiss one problem in order to highlight another Hippo_Tron Aug 2013 #46
I am missing where he is dismissive of it. boston bean Aug 2013 #48
It's in his first sentence... Hippo_Tron Aug 2013 #50
I think you are making a misinterpretation. boston bean Aug 2013 #53
No, I don't think I am... Hippo_Tron Aug 2013 #59
It was not an either or, as I read it. boston bean Aug 2013 #60
Again, the way he starts the article indicates that this isn't a serious concern Hippo_Tron Aug 2013 #63
He was acknowledging the issue, and adding another facet. boston bean Aug 2013 #64
I referred to Larry Summers as "a clueless asshole" Hippo_Tron Aug 2013 #65
oh ok. boston bean Aug 2013 #70
I agree with your take on this. MADem Aug 2013 #92
Corporations sponsor these events. Their employees are at the events. boston bean Aug 2013 #93
Did you look at the links I provided. MADem Aug 2013 #95
You have completely washed over the effects this has upon women boston bean Aug 2013 #96
Now you're just being combative. MADem Aug 2013 #98
It is your characterization that I am being combative. boston bean Aug 2013 #100
You are. Combative in the extreme. MADem Aug 2013 #104
That is your characterization. boston bean Aug 2013 #105
It's an accurate characterization, based upon your comments throughout this thread. nt MADem Aug 2013 #107
in your mind. nt boston bean Aug 2013 #108
Have a nice day. nt MADem Aug 2013 #109
You too. nt boston bean Aug 2013 #110
Exactly, you won't find this sort of exploitation of women in the arts! n/t hughee99 Aug 2013 #51
Wow this thread sure brought out the haters MadrasT Aug 2013 #58
One might have thought that it would have brought out supportive and understanding responses boston bean Aug 2013 #81
Sounds like everyone had a swell time. millennialmax Aug 2013 #61
As long as the men were having a swell time, I guess all well in the world. nt boston bean Aug 2013 #62
I don't understand why ANY industry would get a pass on sexism, or any other form of bigotry... YoungDemCA Aug 2013 #66
Good luck with that one! Rex Aug 2013 #71
Good luck with that. The media is ...the g0d that selects our candidates ...and shill products... L0oniX Aug 2013 #78
Yes because the industries behind writing, music, the rest of the arts and medicine are all SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #80
I know it's everywhere and pointing it out in one industry and having a discussion about it is boston bean Aug 2013 #82
You singled out a specific industry SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #83
And what is the problem with it? Second I posted an article that usually focuses on something. boston bean Aug 2013 #84
And you minimized it by blaming it all on one small industry when all are guilty. SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #86
I posted an article about the tech industry. boston bean Aug 2013 #87
It is wrong to single out techies because... redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #128
Nobody is blaming "one small segment" of people.... YoungDemCA Aug 2013 #117
Wait let me get this straight, companies advertised their products USING SEX?!?!? Kurska Aug 2013 #102
Picture with a babe? Savannahmann Aug 2013 #103
"That said if men continue to act like jerks, it is no wonder women will go into anything Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #118
This is why I don't do cons anymore Recursion Aug 2013 #120
Hell yes DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #127
Excellent ismnotwasm Aug 2013 #130
 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
1. You are seriously telling me that CISCO might have used attractive women...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:02 AM
Aug 2013

... to increase their booth patronage at a conference? You are also telling me that they used social media to spread pictures of these attractive women, along with their brand, to a wider audience?

I'm shocked and outraged... outraged and shocked...

On a serious note... The rest of it doesn't seem to have much context so... meh...

BainsBane

(53,012 posts)
21. Look up EEOC law
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:33 AM
Aug 2013

Evidently the 14th amendment is too radical for some of the nation's more reactionary citizens.

BainsBane

(53,012 posts)
24. That's what happens when you spend so much time
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:40 AM
Aug 2013

devoted to the machinery of death. You somehow miss the fact that discrimination in the work place, including a hostile work environment, is illegal. The 14th Amendment is the foundation for all equal opportunity employment law.

Response to BainsBane (Reply #24)

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
79. It comes as no shock at all that you fully support hostile workplaces
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:46 PM
Aug 2013

for women.

I really wonder if DU is a good fit for you. You hold many extremely RW views. You might want to review our TOS.

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
85. I disagree...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:07 PM
Aug 2013

I believe in their right to choose their sexual limits and constraints and require that they allow others to do so as well. I do not feel the need to dictate to others what they should and should not find sexually appalling as some others in this thread seem to feel a need to do.

As far as "booth babes", sex sells, and companies are usually in the business of selling.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
114. It's not about "What [you] should or should not find sexuall appealing." It's about what's
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 05:07 PM
Aug 2013

appropriate for the workplace. Same reason why it's fine to watch porn on your own time, but you shouldn't be watching it on the company computer. Or why you can go to a strip club on Saturday night if you so choose, but hiring a stripper for a company function is inappropriate.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
37. "Booth babes or strippers"?!?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:03 PM
Aug 2013

"Angst"?!?

So, if you don't think young women avoid certain career paths because they are aware of the high likelihood of being objectified or subjected to a hostile work environment, then it shouldn't bother you if women on this website observe that you must have a trouser worm instead of a trouser snake (aka SPS) to be so hostile to women?

I didn't think so...

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
39. Doesn't bother me in the slightest...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:10 PM
Aug 2013

None of the lovely women of DU will be getting anywhere near me or my pants. How they refer to what is contained within has literally zero affect on me.

Trouser worm or trouser tyrannosaurus is all the same...

As to the rest, the day you take the sex out of marketing is the day that mankind has ceased to exist.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
42. How telling...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:25 PM
Aug 2013

Trouser tyrannosaurus -- because most women wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole?

I wonder what your mother would say about your sexist attitude.

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
52. You are the one that seems so focused on what's in my pants...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:49 PM
Aug 2013

Double points for resorting to personal attacks since you have nothing else to say apparently.

My mother taught me not to get riled up about what random people say about me. You should try it. You'll live a happier life.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
54. Don't like it, huh. Join the club of women who don't
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:51 PM
Aug 2013

want to be thought of a piece of ass, at work, with strippers hanging around and men getting all hot and bothered..

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
55. Do you read?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:54 PM
Aug 2013

Ya know.. words and the like?

Several posts about how I don't care about what other people are doing and that's what you take from it?

Maybe the concept is so foreign that you can't accept it.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
57. Well you did seem somewhat bothered by someone concerning themselves
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:56 PM
Aug 2013

about what is in your pants. I only respond to what I read.

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
67. Check again...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:25 PM
Aug 2013

I don't care because no one here is getting in my pants and thus it has zero effect on me.

Nada
Zip
Zero

Call it what you like... Shai Halud or inchworm.. don't care...

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
72. Experiences of what?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:33 PM
Aug 2013

Are we planning on going back to the original conversation or do you want to talk about my wedding tackle some more?

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
74. yeah, I'm fascinated by your "wedding tackle"angle.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:38 PM
Aug 2013
and can't stop thinking about it eww.

In your dreams maybe.

I was referring to experiences that women face in the tech industry. I thought that was clear. Why would I want to continue with that subject? Unless, it does bother you and that would mean you might be able to relate to others feelings, which is the only facet of that conversation that interested me.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
88. Epiphany!!!
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:22 PM
Aug 2013

O,no...on reading further, I see that you really DON'T get it.

I have ZERO interest in "what's in your pants." I had hoped to help you empathize with those of us who must contend with sexism on a daily basis. I see now that you are entrenched.

Denial is not a river in Egypt...

Response to chervilant (Reply #88)

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
119. I prefer to discuss
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 07:42 PM
Aug 2013

Patriarchy and sexism in gender neutral terms, while stressing that these sociocultural artifacts are damaging and delimiting to all. You might be interested in "Beyond Power" (French) and "The Mermaid and the Minotaur" (Dinnerstein).

 
122. It's hard to discuss it in gender neutral terms
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 08:15 PM
Aug 2013

because the whole reason for sexism is the separation of the sexes. Without gender there would be no sexism. Looking at it from a psychological view, men and women have different thoughts on sex and gender. I will take a look at hose reading materials, thanks

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
124. I've done advocacy for survivors of relationship
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 10:28 PM
Aug 2013

violence for more than thirty years now. When I've lectured on the dynamics of relationship violence, I've found that it's easier for men to assimilate the topic when they aren't feeling defensive about the fact that most abusers are men (which is why I plowed doggedly through Dinnerstein's pedantic tome).

 

Soundman

(297 posts)
101. Have you learned the lesson yet?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:32 PM
Aug 2013

The lesson being, there are about half a dozen or so here that think finding woman attractive is not only yucky it is indicative of some deep seeded mental disorder. You know, the old adage of, when your only tool is a hammer every thing looks like a nail comes to mind.

Not that it matters but, my sister is neatly at the top rung in the technical department of a household name company. The head of the tech department is also a woman. So I feel woman can and do just fine in that environment if they so choose.

Anyway, good luck on you quest in trying to reason with the "so when did you stop beating your wife" clan, I don't think it can be done. To get along with them you must be a good little drone and question nothing.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
106. What you are saying is not the truth and is a sexist characterization.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:47 PM
Aug 2013

Not sure what else to say, but glad for your sisters success.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
115. What does any of this have to do with "finding women attractive"?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 05:15 PM
Aug 2013

You can look at as many pictures of attractive women as you want - I know I as a heterosexual man certainly do - outside of the workplace. Who thinks "finding women attractive" is a mental disorder? If anyone did, I'd laugh my ass off at them. Sexual attraction is simple biology.

But this isn't about that. It's what about what's appropriate (or not) for the workplace, and whether or not a given workplace - and by extension, a given field - is an uncomfortable environment for women due to other employees' behavior. And you guys honestly don't see how strippers and softcore imagery all over the place might make for an uncomfortable work space, for some?

Squinch

(50,911 posts)
125. I notice that there are even fewer than half a dozen men here insisting that it is fine to
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:08 PM
Aug 2013

objectify women in the workplace.

And in stultifyingly predictable form, both of you are insisting that any mention of that obvious fact must mean that a "certain group" is persecuting you.

Welcome to DU. Speaking of good little drones who question nothing...

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
113. It's not about "pictures of attractive women." It's about creating a pervasively uncomfortable
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 04:44 PM
Aug 2013

and unwelcoming environment for female tech employees. You're concentrating on one small part of it and not seeing the bigger picture.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
2. 'computer or other sorts of geeks.'
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:03 AM
Aug 2013

try leading by example, and show some respect of your own, by not painting a huge group of people with a broad brush based on some bad behavior at conventions of the type that most tech workers never even go to in the first place

...oh, and dont refer to them by a pejorative like 'geek'

the female expereinced tech workers i know dont encourage thier daughters to go into tech because they dont want to see them work super hard to just end up training their indian h-1b replacement - i've never heard any of these women mention 'sexism' as part of the reason for not encouraging their daughters to go into tech

but what do i know, i'm just speaking from real life expereince, i didnt read some article and fly off the handle, like you just did

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
4. This article addresses sexist tech men, why are you taking such offense?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:05 AM
Aug 2013

Also, why do you feel the need to diminish this male authors thoughts on the subject?

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
7. yep, you have, and so did he. And so did many others.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:09 AM
Aug 2013

because your little bubble tells you this is not a problem, doesn't mean that it isn't.

The proof of this is all over the internet. Widen your horizons!

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
12. I have almost two decades. Why would that matter?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:12 AM
Aug 2013

Are you seriously saying that this guy is lying about what happens at these gatherings?

PS here is something else he wrote in that article:

I can't help but wonder what the reaction would be was these bigots to express themselves on Blacks or Jews at conferences. I'm pretty sure we'd have put an immediate and total stop to such things, and ostracized the perpetrators, instead of turning a blind eye, and passively tolerating this.


What do you think about that thought?
 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
13. i'm saying that he paints a broad brush implying that such attitudes
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:16 AM
Aug 2013

are common in tech, whereas my experience as both an employee and a consultant/contractor show them to be practically non-existent

training films, even long ago made the case in consulting that it's a business liability issue

the main issue for women in tech that i know, are the same as for men - the nation's policy of labor glutting

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
16. HA HA.. you're too funny.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:20 AM
Aug 2013

I'm not prosecuting you. I pointing out the facts of the matter, via posting a post, written by a male techie.

Take it up with him, if you are feeling personally prosecuted.

Lastly, I don't have an attitude, just pointing you to the truth of the matter.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
17. it's about marketing, not tech workers
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:27 AM
Aug 2013

do you, for example, consider the cartoon charmin toilet paper bears to be any true reflection on you?

or do you think it's just some stupid idea that some lame marketing team came up with to meet a deadline and a status report?

he says

"That said if men continue to act like jerks, it is no wonder women will go into anything but technology"

which most directly implies and presupposes that the average male tech workers do act like sexist jerks in the workplace, and that this does deter women from entering the Field - that's complete BS, as well as slander

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
25. Well, when my work sends me to a conference, I am there professionally.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:42 AM
Aug 2013

This shit needs to stop.

Try to speak about this issue within the context it is presented, please.

from the article, I assume you did not read:

The problem with making the decision, as a woman, to stay home and not go to places where this [stuff] happens, is that if you stay home, you then lose some/most/any of your status in the group. Yeah, there's [crap] (like the time someone in the delivery industry said on a mailing list "we'll take you to the strip club, then you get to be a part of delivery.&quot but if women just avoid the people perpetrating the [crap], then women lose opportunity and access.
On the other hand, if women call it out, then we also risk losing status as "one of the guys" or "not one of *those* women" (usually "feminist&quot or whatever. "Swallow [crap], or ruin the entire afternoon?" with a side of "and struggle in the field because I've now asserted that I am human too and expect respect."
I'm not sure there is one answer, but men speaking up about how the sexism [that clearly] exists in the tech sector is inappropriate is certainly part of the solution.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
34. Some folks just NEED to be right. You seem to be dealing with one of them.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:54 AM
Aug 2013

You have handled this well, IMO.


I would have had a post deleted by this point, as obtuse ignoramuses (ignorami?) get no quarter from me.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
40. Ah, yes, the ol' sex sells argument,
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:19 PM
Aug 2013

thinly disguised?

Marketing has long been sexist and is as offensive as using scantily clad women to titillate male attendees at tech conferences. Sexism is still ubiquitous in our culture and on this forum. I wonder if those who get the most defensive are the worst offenders or deeply in denial.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
68. OFFS. This is possibly the most disingenuous reply I've read here. Who the hell do you
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:26 PM
Aug 2013

think you're talking to? Some of us have been in this game longer than you've been alive, and therefore know that every word you just wrote is unadulterated bullshit.

As an added bonus, Ms. Thug is also an old geek. She was the first woman micro-computer specialist in the state. For the first ten years of her career she was always the only woman in every office she worked in, and for every minute of her career, she was constantly subjected to ubiquitous sexism, even when she was (eventually, after every man in the whole department proved himself inadequate to the job) made the director of IT.

And we are also both proud of the moniker 'geek'.

Sexism is everywhere, but it is particularly pernicious in the world of IT and always has been. So you can take your faux outrage and insert it appropriately.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
116. disingenuous?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 05:38 PM
Aug 2013

I'm a little surprised you would say that

Difference of experience and perspective? sure

but 'disingenuous'?

i've seen you on this site, and the two of us agree most of the time, often quite strongly

do you really think i've suddenly become a troll?

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
123. I never called you anything at all, and specifically, I didn't call you a troll, but what you wrote
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 08:55 PM
Aug 2013

is nothing but offensive. In two paragraphs, you managed to disparage decades of experience, and the constant fight against going down the road to nowhere that many of us spent our lives waging on your behalf.

I don't specifically know at what level you are at right now, but the odds are that your boss' boss' boss is nothing but a career ass-kisser that doesn't have more than a magazine article's understanding of the technology that (almost certainly, he) is "in charge" of implementing to maximize corporate profitability. And every time he fucks up, you or your colleagues are made to pay the price in order to conceal the fact that he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.

I am admittedly a bit touchy on this particular area and this specific topic is, along with ageism, a cancer that is killing what was once a respected and esteemed profession. Thanks to Clinton and other republican assholes and their corporate masters, it's largely become a dumping ground for the desperate, the dim, and the foolish. If I'd had kids and one of them came to me and said, "Dad, I've decided that the best course for me is to go into either IT or the military", I do believe that I would have a stroke as I've utterly failed as a parent. Doubly so, if she was my daughter.

Perhaps it is a generational thing, and if so you should be aware that from the perspective of those of us that literally created the field, what has been done is at once embarrassing and enraging. We, those of us that are not young and/or male, are untouchable in American IT because the incompetent and the ignorant have come to control what should, and could still be the answer to so many of our problems.

The sad fact is that 95% of the working "IT professionals" left are little more than imminently replaceable cogs that have been taught or learned nothing, but have been trained like animals, to know nothing more more than what button to push in a pre-defined set of circumstances.

Click-drag-and-script is not programming. Copy and paste is not a viable substitute for writing code. And nothing that M$, Apple, Oracle, Symantec, or the other "giants" have patented as intellectual property exists for any purpose other than to lock their customers and subjects into a perpetual cycle of paying them for nothing, forever.

Similarly to the GLBT community, we took the words they hurled at us as epithets and wore them as badges of honor until they became cool. "Geek" and "nerd" have become something to aspire to, don't go backward out of some sense of entitlement.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
126. if you look at my posts on this site
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:14 PM
Aug 2013

i've been fighting h-1b visa abuse for a long time, as it is the vehicle and enabler of ageism. and h-1b (and all the other guest worker visas L1, F1-OPT, TN-Status etc) are the critical input of outsourcing

without the purposefull glutting of labor, ageism would not be a luxury corporations could afford. it's Econ 101 applied to labor negotiation, plain and simple. i have been with some success, communicating this basic reality to my reps

the turning of an up and coming profession into a disposable trap with indentured servitude as the standard was no accident. it was designed as surely as any corporate IT system

my point, is that what i've described in this thread, is an overwhelmingly more dominent factor in whether the field is attractive to young women, far more than any sexism. you've seen it - i havent. but that doesnt mean that one of us isnt telling the truth, it just means we've had different experiences. and reading your post im responding to, you seem to be saying the same thing (that ageism (and it's enablers) are why you wouldnt reccomend it to young people) when you write:

"I am admittedly a bit touchy on this particular area and this specific topic is, along with ageism, a cancer that is killing what was once a respected and esteemed profession. Thanks to Clinton and other republican assholes and their corporate masters, it's largely become a dumping ground for the desperate, the dim, and the foolish. If I'd had kids and one of them came to me and said, "Dad, I've decided that the best course for me is to go into either IT or the military", I do believe that I would have a stroke as I've utterly failed as a parent. Doubly so, if she was my daughter. "

as far as nerd and geek go, it's your right to wear them as a badge of honor. but your choice is not my obligation. using your LGBT analogy, the fact that some in that community wear it as a badge of honor sure as heck does not give me the license to use those terms toward any of them, nor does if give any menber of that community the right to tell another member 'how they're supposed to feel about it'. you say 'what was once a respected and esteemed profession'. that was actually true until relatively recently, as late as the late 90s. perhaps that's why i'm not eager to embrace any label that can have any negative connotations, becoming an underclass is recently aquired and i reject any acceptance of it (for myself)

while my heart soul, and actions have been 100 percent pro-labor, and strength of the middle working classes, i am finding that stylistically i really dont belong in the culture of this site, or this party, with it's obcession on social issues (and rigid conformity of opinion on them) and total blind eye to the party's sellout of working people on insourcing and 'free trade'

whatever that makes me for saying this, well, that's what i am

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
129. I don't think we are in disagreement on the issues. The point I tried to make to you is that our
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 09:00 AM
Aug 2013

opinions and experience are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I try (and have always tried) very hard to avoid being a "typical male asshole" to the women I have worked with, and so in my perspective/experience sexism is no worse in IT than the rest of our profoundly sick society. But when woman after woman after woman tells me it is, I have to understand and acknowledge that their opinion/observation/experience carries more validity than mine in this area.

I think what you wrote and maintain is akin to guys like me, privileged, white, and male trying to argue "reverse racism" or deny the privilege so ubiquitous that I'm not even aware of it until somebody that doesn't have it, points it out to me.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
131. we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 12:15 PM
Aug 2013

Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2013, 01:55 PM - Edit history (1)

because i have known a great deal of women in the field, havent seen it myself, have been a confidant of many of them (including my sister) and they havent mentioned it.

i think i'm just on the wrong site. as a witness, i tell what i have seen, not what a stranger tells me i should have seen. that doesnt mean my testemony is reflective of the reality in question, but it also doesnt make me guilty of some kind of 'something'-ism for saying it

but on this site, it absolutely, positively does. one word ever questioning any aspect of 'the creed' in any situation and everyone attacks you. i'm fed up with it. time to move on

edit:

looking on the site 'Urban Dictionary' for 'Democratic Underground', i found a snippet in the 2nd entry:

"A place for people who preach dissent, preach diversity, preach tolerance yet will cruch you in a heart beat if you say anything that don't agree with. "

more than a little truth to that...who will those on this site ever convince of anything, if that becomes the reputation?

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
6. Is the tech field worse than other fields?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:09 AM
Aug 2013

The company I work for would probably be classified as a tech company and the company is about half women, I have never heard of any complaints about sexism in my workplace. I am sure it is a problem at other companies, but I am not so sure that the tech field as a whole is worse than other fields. Maybe it is, but I don't see it at the place I work now, I did see it at non-tech companies I have worked for in the past however.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
9. It's everywhere, but this article is about tech conferences.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:10 AM
Aug 2013

Where people go to learn and expand their field, and networking.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
18. wow. if your company has an equal amount of women - it's a rarity and that will
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:28 AM
Aug 2013

absolutly change the vibe towards women for the better. I have worked in places where I am the only woman with a higher level job, and it is very rough what your expected to laugh off. I now work in a much more diverse environment - and it;s no longer "anything goes" which is much more welcoming.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
8. We were presenting at a conference once, my boss said I could man the booth if I wore falsies
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:10 AM
Aug 2013

LOL! I replied I that I could get the inflatable ones and hide the pump under my arm so as to inflate them until I got the guys attention...! I thought it was hysterical - my boss was initially mortified but then He laughed along with me. He got it.
I had used humour to point out (without saying as much) that his comment was just plain silly.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
97. Long Term IT career too...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:01 PM
Aug 2013

Also have a masters in Comp Sci....but still get stupid questions like "How did you learn about computers"?

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
30. It's a friggin big deal if men are watching strippers in a work enviorment....
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:48 AM
Aug 2013

which include conventions.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
49. You might want to re-think your position re:watching strippers at work and/or having them provided
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:38 PM
Aug 2013

by work.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
99. that's the problem
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:24 PM
Aug 2013

I think. I mean if you thought of us as equal you probably wouldn't "like to watch strippers," may be the issue.

DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
33. Anyone familiar with the misogyny of the car business?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 11:54 AM
Aug 2013

Wonder why women in the industry are so few and far between?


Ever met a woman salesperson? If you have, then you've literally met a unicorn.


Geeks are nothing compared to the douchebags of the car industry.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
44. funny you posted that cause I am thinking of the quintessential car show babes at the booth
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:30 PM
Aug 2013

showing off her assets next to the car.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
47. That is exactly what has infiltrated these tech conferences.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:33 PM
Aug 2013

It's seems such an old ploy, like something you would expect to see in the fifties. That we still haven't moved beyond it, says a lot.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
77. You're absolutely right, but women sales people are much more common in the west.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:42 PM
Aug 2013

Of course, they are invariably young, hot, and single, so I'm not sure if that's actually progress.

Tien1985

(920 posts)
38. Yeah...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:06 PM
Aug 2013

Denying sexism is rampant in the tech industry = denying grass is green

Because, ya know, sometimes grass is brown, or more blueish than green, really.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
43. Well, you sure
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:30 PM
Aug 2013

know how to shine a huge klieg light on the sexists on this forum! Reminds me of the bully in the sandbox who hides all the toys behind him, then whines that no one will play with him.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
45. It's simple really. Just post about issues women face
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:32 PM
Aug 2013

and you'll get an earful on how wrong you are, and get lambasted for even bringing it up.

On a progressive board to boot.

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
75. Most men don't face those issues, so to many of them, those issues don't exist.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:39 PM
Aug 2013

Total lack of empathy or understanding.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
89. So true, unfortunately.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:26 PM
Aug 2013

I see you weighed in upthread, and I appreciate that you recognized my attempt to get him to empathize. Alas, most sexist men (and women) get uber defensive about their ism...

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
46. I don't understand why he feels the need to dismiss one problem in order to highlight another
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:33 PM
Aug 2013

Yes, there' sexism in the tech industry (like a lot of other industries) and it's great that he's calling people on it.

But lets go back to the fact that there are so few women in these fields. Is it because Larry Summers is right that women are bad at math and science? Or is it perhaps that clueless assholes like Larry Summers are telling women that they're bad at math and science?

If it's the former, then certainly it's all fine and dandy that we have these male dominated fields. But if it's the latter, that's a bit of a problem in my opinion.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
48. I am missing where he is dismissive of it.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:35 PM
Aug 2013

He states that other fields are important, but that he was discussing tech.

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
50. It's in his first sentence...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:40 PM
Aug 2013
These days, I've seen many breathless posts about how 'we' "need" to encourage girls to study math so eventually they become computer or other sorts of geeks.


The tone with which he writes that sentence and the fact that he puts need in quotation marks indicates pretty clearly to me that he doesn't see the need to be encouraging girls to study math. I couldn't disagree more.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
53. I think you are making a misinterpretation.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:50 PM
Aug 2013

In other words since we do want more women in the tech field, we men need to stop acting like sexists. As in it is another part of the problem.

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
59. No, I don't think I am...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:00 PM
Aug 2013

I think he's saying that the only reason women don't go into the tech field because it's dominated by misogynistic assholes. 40 years ago, just about every field in the country was dominated by misogynistic assholes. If that had stopped women from entering those fields, every field in the country would still be dominated by misogynistic assholes.

I'm all for telling misogynistic assholes everywhere to stop acting like misogynistic assholes, and I do agree that there's somewhat of a misconception that the tech community is particularly progressive when it's actually not.

But I also think that there's a serious problem with the way society discourages girls from pursuing interests in math and science and I think that's a huge contributor to why there are so few women in the tech industry. The way he writes the article seems rather dismissive of that fact.

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
63. Again, the way he starts the article indicates that this isn't a serious concern
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:09 PM
Aug 2013

If he didn't want to make it an either or, he could've written something like...

"These days we hear a lot about how we need to encourage girls to pursue math and science. And while I could not agree more with this sentiment, there's a serious problem with misogyny in the tech community that needs to be addressed as well."

Instead he refers to "breathless posts" about the concern and puts the word need in quotation marks.

If his aim was to suggest that both of these problems are serious concerns then he has a very funny writing style.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
64. He was acknowledging the issue, and adding another facet.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:11 PM
Aug 2013

think what you will. I'll think what I will.

I certainly don't think Larry Summers was correct, do you? You seem to have given some thought that what he said may be true.

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
65. I referred to Larry Summers as "a clueless asshole"
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:19 PM
Aug 2013

That should pretty clearly indicate that I don't think he's correct.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
92. I agree with your take on this.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:35 PM
Aug 2013

Look at the guy though--he's an oldie.


He was likely IN the business thirty, if not forty years ago, and he's carting all that baggage with him. Before anyone gets overly annoyed, I, too, am an "oldie" and I know one when I see one.

I also agree with your second paragraph, AND your third!

His thesis comes off like he's offering an 'out' for female persons to not pursue "tech" fields, and I don't go for that at all.

This conference, from what I understand, is rather a "hot ticket," and some people take VACATION to attend it. After all, they don't hold it in Turdfart, OK, they hold it in Las Vegas, Sin City, "What Happens in Vegas..." http://www.blackhat.com/us-13/

I think the whole "Vegas vibe" is part and parcel of what the corporate sponsors are selling. It's not just "work," it's "fun" too, is what they're saying. Information AND debauchery!!


It's sketchy to object based on the whole "work environment" argument, unless the offender's and offendee's employers are all paying the per diem for their employees to attend. This isn't a closed environment, like TAILHOOK, where everyone is from from the same organization, including the presenters (who are either senior leaders or hired by the organization), the organization is paying all the bills, and everyone at the conference is on travel orders.

These are people from all walks of life and all sorts of circumstances attending this shindig. It has a panoply of "sponsors," too--perhaps they're the ones who should be approached with requests for "boundaries of taste?" http://www.blackhat.com/us-13/sponsors.html

An argument on the grounds of taste and manners and simple decency would probably work better. Trying to call this a "work environment"--unless a person was told their attendance was mandated at all events, to include those with the inappropriate content, in order to keep their job--might not fly.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
93. Corporations sponsor these events. Their employees are at the events.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:43 PM
Aug 2013

Corporations buy passes for their employees, pay the hotel tab, the travel tab, and food and drink tab.

This is not a social event it is an industry conference, and it is part of their job.

Secondly, this author in no way was saying that women don't belong in tech. That is an absolute massacre of his words.

Why do some have find something to criticize that doesn't have to do with the point the author was making. And then make the criticism anyhow in an attempt to minimize the actual point. It's depressing.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
95. Did you look at the links I provided.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:55 PM
Aug 2013

Hundreds of corporations.

And not all of them "pay the tab." I rather doubt that the "hackers" who attend have corporate sponsors--they're there for the sheer joy of their hobby.

Black Hat Briefings is a computer security conference that brings together a variety of people interested in information security. Representatives of government agencies and corporations attend, along with hackers. The Briefings take place regularly in Las Vegas, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Abu Dhabi and, occasionally, Tokyo.[1] An event dedicated to the Federal Agencies is organized in Washington, D.C.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hat_Briefings

I'm betting there are fewer "booth ladies" at the DC event.

It is BOTH a "social event" AND an "industry conference" and, as I said, it is NOT a closed network. One sponsor can go one way on the "booth ladies" thing, and another sponsor can go another way--you can't hold the second sponsor responsible for the conduct of the first. The "industry" is not a borg.

The author may not be saying "women don't belong in tech" but his thesis sounds, to me, like he's giving them a handy excuse to run away.

Look, I don't demand that you agree with me--I certainly wasn't trying to convince you, I was talking to someone else and supporting their POV. If you don't think the author was making that point, in an oblique fashion, well, goodie for you--I simply did not read or interpret his remarks the way that you did.

I have as much of a right to my POV as you do.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
96. You have completely washed over the effects this has upon women
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:59 PM
Aug 2013

and their ability to network like the good ole boys.

You have absolutely nothing to say about the negative impact, nothing.

You don't have to agree with me, I'm not demanding a damn thing. I'm just pointing out where I feel your logic and tactics have failed.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
98. Now you're just being combative.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:21 PM
Aug 2013

If you bothered to read my remarks, you will see that I am not a fan of sexism at conventions (or anywhere else for that matter), so your comments about my having absolutely nothing to say about the negative impact, nothing are BLATANTLY FALSE.

Further, your efforts to portray me as someone who completely washed over the effects this has upon women--simply because I don't take the same view as you about this writer, is utter crap.

If you want to talk about where logic and tactics have failed you might want to take a closer look at your OWN posts on this thread. You're running around insinuating, with "good ole boys" inferences, that everyone who doesn't agree with your view of this "breathless" author has a misogynistic agenda, and that's just nonsense.

The piece you posted is written by someone who sounds PATRONIZING. His first paragraph sets a very unsavory, and dare I say "breathlessly sexist" tone. That whole "...how 'we' "need" to encourage girls..." phrase is chock-a-block full of unnecessary punctuation.

He may mean well, but he's carrying baggage and that baggage informs his world view that women and girls "need" to be encouraged and benevolent, well meaning, patronizing "we's" are the people to do it. Spare me the "air quotes" types. He also gives tech-oriented women a lame "out" in his second paragraph.

And spare me the people who think that women are delicate flowers who can't stand up for themselves and tell jerks to fuck themselves:

That said if men continue to act like jerks, it is no wonder women will go into anything but technology.


Yeah, no wonder, because they'll pick up their skirts, run away and cry into their pillows...? How offensive .... to women who are made of stronger stuff than this guy seems to give them credit for.

YMMV, and so be it. I really don't care.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
100. It is your characterization that I am being combative.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:28 PM
Aug 2013

Yet, I notice you use this tactic quite often. You had much to say about the author, but little mention of anything that the article addressed.

If you can't figure out why that is so telling, I can't help.

I won't further discusssions with persons who try to characterize my responses to them as being combative or angry. Maybe it's just your not use to a woman speaking her mind.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
104. You are. Combative in the extreme.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:38 PM
Aug 2013

It doesn't matter if people say things that indicate plainly that they don't like this sexist behavior at these venues one bit, as Hippo Tron did, above (and note I specifically agreed with his 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, which were most eloquent on the subject).

You're just pissed off that neither he/she nor I are thrilled with this author's condescending, pat-the-little-girls-on-the-head tone, and you have an overarching need to defend the author from these charges by making snarky, shitty, innuendo - laden comments about me.

Now If you can't figure out why that is so telling, I can't help.

I will say, though, that it's par for the course with you. You'll pulled this type of thing with me before--the difference is I'm calling you on it this time.


.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
105. That is your characterization.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:45 PM
Aug 2013

If I were to be combative, I would admit it.

Now, go on and respond to all the sexist posts that exist right here in this thread.

Have a good day!

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
58. Wow this thread sure brought out the haters
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 12:58 PM
Aug 2013

I quit a lucrative tech career after 20 years or so because I got sick of this shit

It is everywhere

Everyody sees a woman in charge it IT and BOOM out comes the patronization and condescension

And to see it perpetrated by fucking CISCO is appalling

Almost wish I still controlled the purse-strings of a million-dollar-plus IT budget

Almost

Was not worth the agita

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
81. One might have thought that it would have brought out supportive and understanding responses
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:51 PM
Aug 2013

on DU. Instead we get denials, and anger, and talked down to.

speaks volumes.

As you will note women on this thread are supportive of one another, and so are some men. But pretty much the women are on their own.

That is why I appreciated this article so much, coming from a man who sees and gets it. I don't need him out there fighting my battles, but callling bullshit bullshit, is sometimes very helpful.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
66. I don't understand why ANY industry would get a pass on sexism, or any other form of bigotry...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:24 PM
Aug 2013

Maybe because the influence of the high-tech industry is so pervasive in contemporary times, and they have a hell of a lot of money, trendy "hip" status, and social influence/prestige?

I live in the Silicon Valley in the SF Bay Area, FWIW. I've seen firsthand the influence of Tech and its professional (and not-professional) propagandists-too strong a word? Hey, if the shoe fits...

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
78. Good luck with that. The media is ...the g0d that selects our candidates ...and shill products...
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:45 PM
Aug 2013

and uses sex to sell as much as it can. Good luck stopping them. If it's going on the TV screen ...it will affect all branches of society.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
80. Yes because the industries behind writing, music, the rest of the arts and medicine are all
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:47 PM
Aug 2013

full of grown ups.

I worked in the convention/trade show industry for 20 years. The tech industry is no different than any others. Booth babes, strippers, hookers, none of them are exclusive to the tech industry.

If you want to see the worst sexists try going to a political convention..

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
82. I know it's everywhere and pointing it out in one industry and having a discussion about it is
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:53 PM
Aug 2013

what, just so, what??.... damn anti-female?

Come on!

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
83. You singled out a specific industry
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 01:58 PM
Aug 2013

no mention was made of any other industries or conventions in general. If you wanted to have that discussion then why blame the whole thing just on techies? They certainly are not the worst offenders. As I have stated that crown goes to politicians. I wouldn't even place techies in the top 5 of misogynistic convention goers...

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
84. And what is the problem with it? Second I posted an article that usually focuses on something.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:01 PM
Aug 2013

I mean, articles do, do that, don't they? They are usually about something.

Why try to minimize the issue by criticizing the focus?

Cause that's exactly what you did. You have anything of substance to add about how this effects women.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
86. And you minimized it by blaming it all on one small industry when all are guilty.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:08 PM
Aug 2013

You could have just as easily taken the article and used it to condemn the entire convention industry. Yet you found it more exciting to just blame "techies"...

This is bullshit. You called out an industry. I called you out for blaming one small segment of the people who are the problem and you claim I am the one minimizing the problem.

Have a nice day.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
87. I posted an article about the tech industry.
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 02:13 PM
Aug 2013

Again, I did not personally limit it to the tech industry.

Yeah it happens other places too, we'll agree. Why try to use that as a crutch and an excuse. It's wrong everywhere, right? This is not a subject of degrees of wrong.

Because other industries do the same thing is no excuse.

Again, can I ask you for some substance as to why you feel it's wrong? The outcome is the same, no matter what industry is being discussed. Don't limit yourself.

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
128. It is wrong to single out techies because...
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 05:46 AM
Aug 2013

...it re-enforces the "sexist computer geek who is a loser and hates women because he is an introvert who can't get laid" stereotype, which is offensive because it conflates introversion and "awkwardness" with violence against women (and because it is a form of anti-intellectualism). Emperical data show that it is extrovert "jock" types who are most likely to commit violence against women and be sexist. Hence, politicians and lawyers are the "masters of the trade" as was pointed out above. They should be the first to be pointed at.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
117. Nobody is blaming "one small segment" of people....
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 05:47 PM
Aug 2013

The tech industry is being used in this thread as an example of a broader problem.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
102. Wait let me get this straight, companies advertised their products USING SEX?!?!?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:37 PM
Aug 2013

I'm SHOCKED I tell you, shocked.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
103. Picture with a babe?
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 03:38 PM
Aug 2013

Have any of you seen a movie called The Core? In it the hacker is called Rat, and Rat is captured by the Feds, and they want to make him an offer to help them. Rat looks at all the people and says. Wait a second...you guys aren't here to whack me are you? Cause I was kinda hoping to have sex before that happens...

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Core

Apparently the Tech Companies think that is a realistic version of a computer nerd. Sadly, in many cases, they may be right.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
118. "That said if men continue to act like jerks, it is no wonder women will go into anything
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 06:17 PM
Aug 2013

but technology"

Like stripping?

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
127. Hell yes
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 02:50 AM
Aug 2013

especially as some of the best people in Tech are women, ranging from the CEO of Yahoo to Morgan Webb.

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