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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSen. Saxby Chambliss makes jaw-dropping accusation against Senator Ron Wyden
Last edited Sun Aug 4, 2013, 07:36 PM - Edit history (2)
To those paying close attention to Meet the Press, on one of the morning show interviews with Saxby Chambliss and Dick Durbin this morning, heard Sen Chambliss say that Senator Wyden knew the answer to the question before he asked it of General Clapper. Clapper later responded that it was the least untruthful answer he could give under the circumstances.
But the jaw-dropping part was the suggestion that Senator Wyden asked a question that was not in the script. He suggested that no questions were to be asked that were not approved beforehand by the NSA. Wyden went off script.
In other words, it was all for show. It was not meant to inform the public. It was fake and Senator Wyden did not read his lines as he was supposed to read them. The Senate and the NSA both had the intent to deceive the public.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Something else: Saxby Chambliss should be in prison instead of Don Siegelman.
kentuck
(110,948 posts)If, any at all?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)...The good guys in Washington remember Paul Wellstone, so Wyden has gotten near-zero help. It's the entire national security state apparatus: Like Wile E. Coyote and an anvil, they squish flat any who stand up to them in public. Perhaps the gloves will come off, seeing how We the People really do give a damn and will stand up with him.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)line. They will not relinquish these powers. I believe they are strong enough to take bold actions against those that oppose them. I believe the revolution has been waiting for a spark. This may be it.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)...Had a chance to chat with strangers from Akron to Huntington. Every one I spoke with, man, woman, young, old -- every one -- says the jig is up for the banksters and gangsters and traitors running the show. They are fed up, "no matter who we vote in" things just get worse.
The thing is, they all -- every one I spoke with -- are loyal to the Constitution. No one wants to overthrow the country. They just want to throw the bums out of power.
The trip buoyed my heart. The bastards are starting to sweat. Maybe they soon will be ones on the run.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Ms. Clinton when Citizens United puts her in as the DEmocratic candidate?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)...However, if the party keeps nominating the drinking buddies of the GOP, all bets are off.
As for 2016, that's a way off. While we've seen this picture before -- it's a damn franchise -- anything can happen before then. Let's try to write the new script, sans the editing of MIC-Wall Street. That means calling up decentralized casting for some new talents.
In Michigan, we ran Lansing mayor Virg Benero against the DeVos/Prince/Koch turd Gov Gateway Rick Snyder. The Dem establishment went ape shit, seeing that their guy, Andy Dillon got beat by the grassroots. (Incumbent Gov. Jennifer the Dimple Granholm did near-zero to help the general campaign, but now has a good future in front of the camera or on Wall Street.)
The money spigot did not trickle down and so Snyder won. And now Michigan runs redneck-and-redneck with 1936 Germany, emergency managers calling the shots in all the major cities with black majority populations, including Detroit where every damn thing worth owning is being looked at for piratization.
As for Dillon, don't cry for me Reagan Democrats. Snyder selected the guy, among his first appointments, to serve in the cabinuts as State Treasurer. I kid you not, symbolic as all the hell my Great Lakes State is become.
Me? Who do I want to see in Washington? Not anyone connected with Hillary, Obama, or the DLC. Once, I had hoped Kerry would be that guy, way back in 2004. I lambasted Gov. Dean at every opportunity. I now realize my mistake as recent developments have tarnished my hopes for that old Dem line.
Bottom line: We need new blood at the top of the ticket, yet the MIC doesn't like people they can't control. Perhaps we'll get Mark Udall or Ron Wyden, both of whom stood up more than a bit to the MIC. Elizabeth Warren stood up the Wall Street bastards. I think she would get the better of Hillary in the debates -- in front of the whole world.
As for the same-old same-old. No. Won't do it.
7962
(11,841 posts)And look what happened to her there. Yes, '16 IS a long way off, and who knows who may step into the spotlight by then.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I bet Hillary set her price too high which allowed for a first-term senator to underbid her.
Hillary Clinton will be no different from what is in there right now, meet the new boss same as the old boss. We have been sold out since we elected the first Clinton, Obama has sold us out, wait for the Trans Pacific Partnership the ultimate sellout of America.
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)I am tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils! What happens in D.C is all a show. It is very obvious now that they keep us distracted so we don't have time to go after the "Root Cause" of our problems. The root cause is the corruption of our electoral system. We have to get the money out of our elections and reign in the Lobbyists. We should DEMAND that Complete Campaign Finance Reform be addressed ASAP! Publicly funded elections from local to the national level would give us Representative government again, something we have not had in quite awhile. The problem is, even here at DU there are still too many that think the fights in DC. are real and Obama is a swell guy. They think that my message is just another conspiracy theory. I mean, it is too much to believe that the billions raised in campaign contributions (bribes) in all of these $25,000 a plate lunches gives the donors more access and sway over these politicians than the average Joe or Jane! They only control who wins the primaries and the general election. I know that's hard to believe (for brainwashed idiots)!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I think, deep down, people know things have been going down hill at a fast pace since 2000. They know it when they pay their utilities, go to the grocery store, or have to take a "staycation" because they can't afford to go anywhere.
Segami
(14,923 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 4, 2013, 06:20 PM - Edit history (1)
lark
(22,993 posts)Can't have the hoi polio knowing what their betters are doing, now can we?
Warpy
(110,900 posts)It's what friends in Georgia call him.
w8liftinglady
(23,278 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Forms of tard are really offensive to those with friends who are challenged.
lobodons
(1,290 posts)However prefix re would have been. He didn't use re but rahter the non offensive fuck.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)It has neither a prefix nor a suffix. It's simply someone's less than witty play on the word RETARD. You DO get that, right?
yurbud
(39,405 posts)dballance
(5,756 posts)Wyden is popular here in Oregon because he's not a complete tool of the corporations like Chambliss.
kentuck
(110,948 posts)He is savvy to how Washington works and is independent and intelligent. Very admirable qualities, in my opinion.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Wyden - I really would settle for half.
GlashFordan
(216 posts)And today Chambliss was talking about this "incredibly" dangerous security alert we're under.
Such a bunch of crap. If something happens this weekend they can say its a victory for intelligence collection and if nothing happens they will say the intelligence alert was successful. Either way the neocon authoritarians win.
kentuck
(110,948 posts)...on target.
Boomerproud
(7,888 posts)are praying hard that something along the line of 9/11 happens. They've got their script ready I can assure you.
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)But you know that.
Tiredofthesame
(62 posts)If they can use an algorithm to see that you may like calling a certain ethnic food place for supplies because you like to make that certain ethnic food, and than use that information to actually listen to your conversations. Than the NSA can most certainly know a great deal of what could "possibly happen" in regards to another 9/11. The question is, based on scale, would it be hindered?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The man, and I use the term loosely, is a loathsome waste of pus.
John2
(2,730 posts)Georgia chose this guy over a Vietnam vet like Cleland. Cleland lost his limbs for this country. So they replaced him for this guy.
mick063
(2,424 posts)I leave it to you to discover why.
On another note, I agree with every word of it.
w8liftinglady
(23,278 posts)...but desecrating veterans is a Republican mainstay.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)He is a disgusting man.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)TxGrandpa
(124 posts)...they have to have their questions pre-approved by the organization they are overseeing? NSA tells Congress what they can ask?
avebury
(10,946 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)reusrename
(1,716 posts)Wyden issued a statement the following day:
http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-statement-responding-to-director-clappers-statements-about-collection-on-americans
Even so, I think Sen. Feinstein and others did accuse him of ambushing the Director.
In any event, the point is that Wyden knew he was being lied to, he knew it would continue, and he knew that there was nothing he could do about it.
Those folks here that still say Snowden should have gone to Wyden instead of the press are living in a fantasy world. Telling Wyden would have accomplished exactly nothing since Wyden already knew and was powerless to do anything.
TxGrandpa
(124 posts)..if he had went to Wyden or anyone with the files he had downloaded based on what has happened to other whistleblowers. Could we suppose that someone in Clapper's office dropped the ball and didn't relay the Senator's question to him so he would be prepared? It still comes back to that it seems as if NSA is the ones doing the oversight instead of Congress. Instead it seems they dictate to Congress what it can do.
No based on what has been published and what we have heard, I would be willing to believe Wyden's version. My take is that Feinstein, Clapper and others have gotten the attitude that we are just supposed to take their word, even with all that has come out about the NSA's overreach. In other words it seems that we the citizenry have no right to know what our government is doing.
Wyden is to be commended for standing up for the Constitution. Look at the Representatives and Senators we have here in Texas!!!!
reusrename
(1,716 posts)Who else does he have to listen to? I wish there were some way for him to have a beer with Snowden and actually have a real discussion about this stuff.
Maybe while he's in Russia not meeting with Putin.
TxGrandpa
(124 posts)Shouldn't we think that having a constitutional scholar as President he would be aware of the Fourth Amendment? Or has he sold out to the 'establishment'?
It might do him good to sit down with Snowden and discuss this. Or not. Basically he has already convicted him by the statements he has made.
But it seems to me that Clapper and Alexander is running the show where neither the President or Congress has any say.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)They have private hearings where the Congresspeople can ask whatever they want.
Javaman
(62,438 posts)Calling it that was not off the mark at all.
matthews
(497 posts)chuckstevens
(1,201 posts)Really Georgia? You voted this partisan prick (Chambliss) over a decorated Vietnam amputee hero? Blinded by the Right!
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)A real piece of shit.
lastlib
(22,978 posts)Any turd of mine or my dog's would be challenging you to a duel over that.
TheKentuckian
(24,934 posts)Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)I can understand your reaction.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)with a 9% approval rating!? Congress works for the 1%. Congress does not give ONE SHIT about The People. Some individuals in Congress DO, but they are so few and far between...
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)I drew the first slot in the "town hall meeting" (in retrospect I wish it had been later in the program) and asked him,
"Senator, who do you think are more dangerous to our national security: guys like Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden, or guys like Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon?"
Obviously he didn't want that right out of the chute, and he avoided the question by separating security issues and economic issues. However, I notice that in recent days he's been getting out closer to the edge on the NSA, and that's a good thing.
classof56
(5,376 posts)I've attended them, and have been appalled by the questions he fields from the right wing constituents over here East of the Cascades. He answers well and honestly, aware all the while, I'm pretty sure, that these are folks who would never vote for him. I can only imagine the pressure he's under, and commend him for his stand on difficult issues. Don't always agree with him, but have been grateful for a long time that he as well as Jeff Merkley are our senators. Maybe Saxby should move to Oregon so he can run against Ron and get thoroughly trounced at the ballot box. Now that would make me cheer!
Oregon: She flies with her own wings. And, we vote by mail. Yes!
condoleeza
(814 posts)I am becoming a bit worried about what the RW may try to do to Wyden as he becomes more and more vocal. Have all the respect in the world for this man and have spoken with him many times when he has attended events in Portland over the years. His heart is in the right place always.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)There are a FEW elected officials who speak their minds and "go off script", but all Republicans and most Democrats stay very close to a very carefully crafted script that's designed to eradicate hope for change from those who are paying attention while also dividing the nation based on superficial rhetoric.
I believe we have to somehow instill a desire to become politically aware in the general population or we're going to continue losing ground. I'm not sure how to begin doing that either.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)about what he understands to be an important concern to democracy. He can't even tell us what he knows, so we should pay attention to everything he does tell us knowing he would tell us a lot more if he could.
nradisic
(1,362 posts)We can't even pretend anymore...our government is not of, by and for the people. unbeleivable man...
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)lie. Sen Wyden knew he lied and gave him an opportunity to make it right for the record. Gen Clapper choose to go on a friendly media for damage control. This is a story that shouldnt be allowed to die. Gen Clapper lied to Congress and went on TV to rectify it.
If we were free he would be called back before Congress and asked to explain. Pres Clinton was impeached for less because he was merely a president. Gen Clapper will walk because he is a member of the ruling cabal that outranks the president. Ask Pres Obama.
Keep in mind that Gen Clapper has been involved in intelligence agencies before Obama and unless we have a miracle, will be in charge after Obama leaves. The Ruling Cabal transcends presidents.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)90-percent
(6,828 posts)This Clapper lying during Congressional testimony got me rankled at the time. Exactly because of the aggravating SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT our government uses. I thought lying to Congress was in the felony category?
How come Martha Stewart and Tommy Chong do hard time and so many that do much worse - like the Presidents of Big Banks and Big Wall Street Firms, commit serious provable crimes and nobody goes after them?
So I was paying attention to all this and one thing I remember is that all questions to Clapper from the Senate were submitted to Clapper at least a day beforehand. So he had a day of prep before his testimony and still lied!
That Wyden asked a question that WAS NOT previously submitted is unknown to me.
Isn't Wyden an advocate of the heinous TPP?
-90% Jimmy
mick063
(2,424 posts)There are substantial elements on both sides of the political spectrum that view the NSA with disdain.
This is prime filet with respect to potential voters. Not often can you grasp an issue that isn't polarizing for all except for those that swear fealty to politicians instead of issues. If not for a Democratic administration, the Democratic Party would have seized this issue quickly. President Obama has convoluted this greatly. Wyden is simply doing what the Democratic Party would have strategically done under a GOP administration.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)as doing something wrong. I believe the left will look at this as good news. At least we have a Sen that doesnt bow down to the NSA. I wish we had a president that would stand up to the NSA. The only people Pres Obama stands up against are patients needing medical marijuana.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)kentuck
(110,948 posts)...is the money quote.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Seriously, how do you guys think they work? What do you think the secret hearings are for? Do you really not think that they work out in advance what they can publicly ask without violating secrecy laws?
kentuck
(110,948 posts)To inform the public?
Or to make us think we are being informed?
Or doesn't matter?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)And the Senators and agency people do want to be on record for some of their questions and answers.
I'm not saying Wyden was wrong to do this, at all; I just didn't think Chambliss's news was, well, "news" in any real sense.
kentuck
(110,948 posts)Even if some of the Senators with the information were uncomfortable with keeping it secret from the people, at the request of the NSA and a handful of senior Senators.
Wyden says he gave the questions in advance to Clapper. Either he didn't read them or he simply took it for granted that no one would have the balls to ask him such a question? They seem to have forgotten about it now?
Judging from the comments, there are a few people that might disagree with you?
Does it make Wyden look like the bad guy because he asked the question and broke Senate Intelligence Committee protocol? Or was he a whistleblower, in his own way?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's a way to get classified information out that you can't be prosecuted for (speech as a Senator or Representative is absolutely constitutionally protected); the downside is it makes the agency very, very pissed at you and unwilling to work with you. If Wyden judged it was the right thing to do at the time I give him the benefit of the doubt.
kentuck
(110,948 posts)...the NSA locks Wyden out of future briefings. I don't think the NSA has that right to keep secrets and avoid telling even our elected representatives. There has to be oversight, no ifs, ands, or buts...
Recursion
(56,582 posts)and that Wyden only did that because he judged there was nothing to lose from an access standpoint at this moment.
kentuck
(110,948 posts)What we have is a secret cabal that tells the President what is in our national security and what he needs to do about it. They also have a handful of malleable Senators and Congressmen, like Diane Feinstein, Saxby Chambliss, and Mike Rogers from Michigan, that are easily guided and will keep all the secrets that the NSA gives them. They look at it only from a security standpoint and seldom will question the constitutional privacy concerns of the secrets. And the NSA then says that they have informed Congress and the Executive, and then they ask the secret court, the FISA Court, to approve their operations...and the Congress and the Executive have nothing but a rubber stamp. It has been thus for quite some time. It is a dangerous situation for our nation to be in, in my opinion. Important decisions like war and drones and assassinations and prisons are made by a secret cabal, away from the people and most of their representatives.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The president has no influence over the intelligence elites, nor apparently does Congress itself. Have we ever been in a more dangerous time?
Skittles
(152,964 posts)lol
blackspade
(10,056 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That's how far free our senators are. And we are no freer than our senators.
How low has our nation fallen?
That a senator is chided for asking an honest question and trying to inform the public of the truth? I'd say we've fallen really low.
How can people bray on and on about freedom when long ago we traded our liberty for an empire.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Whose orders were these, NSA's? Who do they think they are to tell a senator what to do? What a nerve.
condoleeza
(814 posts)[link:
|AppleBottom
(201 posts)It doesn't add up from what we know.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)again.
unhappycamper
(60,364 posts)rtracey
(2,062 posts)Here (IMO) is the answer to all the BS in the House and Senate....... ready?...... TERM LIMITS........if the executive branch has it so should the legislative branch.....
Tiredofthesame
(62 posts)This right here is a very good start to alot of the horseshit that our politicians put us, and themselves through. I would even go so far as to say a single six year term for president would be sufficient.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... because at that point, the only body of people in the congress that will have "institutional knowledge" will be the frickin' CORPORATE LOBBYISTS!!!!
Arbitrary term limits will only make things worse and make it harder to get people as good as Ron Wyden, Bernie Sanders, etc. in to replace them. Do you REALLY want that?
The answers are public campaign financing, getting rid of corporate personhood and "money is free speech", and instant runoff voting, to get the money out of politics as well as empower third party options on election ballots.
Tiredofthesame
(62 posts)but term limits will definitely make whoever we vote in work while they are in the seat they were elected to. Not start campaigning for their next power grab before they did one single thing in their current seat. That cannot be a bad thing.
Term limits or no term limits, what you said is still 100 percent true. But the Ron Wydens of the world do not disappear because of term limits. They remain the same. IMO.
donquijoterocket
(488 posts)Of campaigns and limiting campaigns in length. Both would, I believe, go a long way towards making elections both the term limits and the limit on power they ought to be.Closing off the revolving door between congress and K street wouldn't hurt.
Mosaic
(1,451 posts)his bullshit on teevee yesterday. Same old crap, terror scares to try to justify their crazy fascism. Hopefully only the most braindead sheeple will buy it. Chambliss is scarier than any cave dwelling thug in the middle east.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)My Senator Wyden has my support in this.
librechik
(30,663 posts)and most decisions are actually made well outside the area that citizens can ever access?
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that realityjudiciously, as you willwe'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors
and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)Please to recommend and kick this back to the top.