General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWest Acts Like ‘Bull in China Shop’ in Middle East – Russian PM Medvedev
MOSCOW, August 4 (RIA Novosti) Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev criticized on Sunday the Wests interference in the Middle East, describing it as a bull in a china shop.
In an interview with Russia Today international news TV channel, Medvedev said he agreed with the interviewer that the West often purposefully pushed whole nations to the point of no return, beyond which it was very difficult to convince the warring sides to attempt negotiations.
Our Western partners sometimes behave like a bull in a china shop they squeeze in, crush everything and then dont know what to do next. I often find myself astonished at their analysts and how inconsistent their projects are that they push through by their superiors and at the outcomes they get, Medvedev told Russia Today.
If were being completely honest, what good did the Arab Spring bring to the Arab world? Did it bring freedom? A little, at best. In most countries it led to endless bloodshed, regime change, and continuous unrest. I have no illusions about that either. As for the pushing you mentioned, yes, unfortunately, thats true, Medvedev said.
What happened in Libya and Iraq and what is happening in Syria show that there is a forceful dismantling of a countrys political system under the guise of the fight for national interests, an intrusion into its internal affairs and the installation a loyal political regime, Medvedev said.
MORE...http://en.rian.ru/russia/20130804/182572291/West-Acts-Like-Bull-in-China-Shop-in-Middle-East--Russian-PM.html
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)It's our specialty
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Never learning our lesson is the other part.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)How exactly does such a revelation fit into the bull in a china shop comparison?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Syria is a sovereign nation that has been allied with Russia for most of Syria's existence.
Syria's government is facing an insurrection by people who apparently like to cut out and eat peoples' hearts.
This insurrection is being openly funded by "Western" interests.
Rather than just allow these foreign-backed terrorists (I mean "freedom fighters"!) overthrow Syria's standing government and crumble the nation into warring factionalized clumps, Russia is supplying its long-time ally with weapons to fight the war it has found itself in.
The west seems to believe that throwing money at murderous fuckweasel assholes is "not being involved," that an Arab nation defending itself against a western coup attempt is a godawful thing, and that other nations who are involved but not trying to destroy an Arab nation need to shut up and get out of the way.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)This is a civil war. Neither the West nor the East should have any part in it. Russia has stuck its foot in its mouth with this one.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Russia is coming to the aid of one of its allies. It's sort of the point of an alliance. It's no mystery why a powerful nation might send weapons to a beleaguered ally, nor is it some sort of grievous offense to do so.
If you paid a little attention though you would notice that this insurrection is bought and paid for by other parties, many of them "western." And without a whole lot of discrimination, I might add, the US apparently doesn't care if our money is going to Al Qaeda, so long as it's Syrians paying the price for it. This has been the case for most of the last two years.
It's not a proxy war. It's not West vs. East with Syria as a battleground. it's the west vs. Syria with Russia as an ally of Syria.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Got it.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You can dislike the Syrian government all you want, that's perfectly fine. But pretending you're some sort of humanitarian because you want to slaughter a few tens of thousands of people in order to topple that government, and then replace it with warring factions which will no doubt kill thousands more, makes no fucking sense.
Unless by "liberate" you mean "liberate from the mortal coil," which does seem to fit the West's agenda towards Arab states...
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)I'm simply not willing to make excuses for Russia. Unlike you.
Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #14)
whttevrr This message was self-deleted by its author.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2013, 12:00 AM - Edit history (1)
Syria's government is facing an insurrection by people who apparently like to cut out and eat peoples' hearts."
Oh my god. I did not read that here. Are you actually PRO Assad?
EDIT: Don't know when you'll see this post but please don't bother responding to it. I've read your other posts to gravitycollapse and this is most definitely not an issue that I you and I will agree on or a reasonable conversation will come out of so I want to stop it before it begins.
The pointless and needlessly moronic intervention of the ankle-biter down thread just cements that this is not a thread that anything good will come out of. So please just ignore my comment to you. Thanks.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)It was not actually the heart but the guy did take a bite out of an internal organ that was taken out of a dead Syrian soldier.
He was later identified and even admitted to this. It was reported a while back.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)doing to tens of thousands of his countrymen. What Al-Assad is doing is deranged and horrible and has been condemned in no uncertain terms by every Western and Arab leader. To see people minimizing this is astonishing.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Sorry, did not realize you were being patronizing. You obviously were very aware of this incident.
my bad.
Number23
(24,544 posts)people out there that think the behavior of one or even 100 are representative of an entire nation of people. I was hoping you and the poster I was actually speaking to at the start of this conversation -- who was not you, by the way -- were being facetious. They may be since they haven't responded yet but it's obvious that you actually think that one man's actions represent all of the rebels.
Didn't realize that you were being serious. My bad.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Sometimes snark reads as ignorance.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Glad you cleared that up and didn't get personal. Oh, wait... but you did.
I was just speaking to the factual reality of the other persons statement. Your first post read like you had no idea that this video existed. I pointed out that it was there and you confirmed that you knew of the incident. So, yeah... that was not ignorance of knowledge, it was willful feigning of ignorance.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I asked if the person was pro-Assad which is not something that you are qualified to answer so I have no idea why you decided to try to. You were the one who leapt in with the video as if anyone asked for it. I didn't.
You started with the personal comments and I responded in kind. No reason for this conversation to have started and I certainly see no reason to keep it going.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Where is the question in this?
doing to tens of thousands of his countrymen. What Al-Assad is doing is deranged and horrible and has been condemned in no uncertain terms by every Western and Arab leader. To see people minimizing this is astonishing.
Number23
(24,544 posts)which for some reason didn't stop you in the least for trying to answer for them. But please go be confused with someone else.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)I can respond to whatever I want.
I thought the question "Are you actually PRO Assad?" was an obvious bullshit question. Feigning ignorance of the subject was the icing on the cake that made me want to say something. I figure if you were going to interject with some total bullshit derailment, I could too.
Just the fact that you are carrying on about how I should not be able to even address you because you were having a conversation with someone else on a public message board shows me that you just wanted to snark away in peace. I thought: "What the hell if Number23 is going to just douche up the thread, the least I could do is keep it honest."
Number23
(24,544 posts)to respond is just stupid. No other way to put it.
You are not Scootaloo. Why try to answer for them? That your subsequent posts have been every bit as pointless and nonsensical as your first one and that you feel compelled to CONTINUE to respond to me even though there is absolutely no reason at all for you to do so is simply icing on the cake of why you are making such a hilarious spectacle of yourself in this thread.
So by all means, keep talking about absolutely nothing and looking more unhinged. You obviously have a dog in this fight and it's probably every bit as lost and confused as you are.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Well done sir.
You win the interwebs
However, if you notice, I did not even deem your pro Assad question as worthy of a response. It was more about the dismissal of an incident that actually occurred. You made it seem preposterous that someone would bring up the guy who cut open a body and took a bite out of someones internal organ.
Again, yes, I am not scootaloo and I do not think your question about who is pro Assad is even relevant. But your denial of reality seems to beg for an objection. It happened. That is all I was referencing. Just because you deny its relevance does not make it irrelevant to others.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)"good guys" maybe we might understand a bit about how the world works. Really useful post, Scootaloo. Thanks for your perspective.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Syria's Assad is their last ally, other than Iran, who is looked upon with deep suspicion by the Arab states. But it's why Syria is so bloody. Russia won't give up their last ally easily.
former9thward
(31,941 posts)Who are our allies in that region?
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Lebanon I suppose you could consider neutral. We have bases in a lot of these countries. Russia long ago lost most of its leverage in the ME.
former9thward
(31,941 posts)No Arab country is our ally. Just because they take our 'aid' does not make them an ally. We have bases because we give them money.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Nations have interests, not friends. If two nations' interests align, they're allies. So yeah, we want their energy, and they want to sell it. Voila!
Russia, OTOH, is also a seller of energy. No interest of theirs aligns with tha Arab states. Hence their rather pathetic state in the region andd this frankly laughable statement.
former9thward
(31,941 posts)So under your expanded definition they are our ally.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)and they'll continue to 'cuz they have no choice in the matter, geography being what it is.
For the ME countries, they have a problem 'cuz of the Persian Gulf, which can easily be choked off. So, they have oil to sell, and we have a military that can keep the Persian Gulf open. So there you are.
Which argument am I going to face now? That Russia, a country with a GDP smaller than California's at this point (Brazil's GDP is bigger, and even India is edging them out a bit), is somehow supposed to be some major player on the world stage that the US is supposed to listen to because of their...what, exactly? I certainly don't know.
malaise
(268,702 posts)Rec