How to be an actual whistleblower

[Recursion]

Step 1: Take the documents, photos, allegations, or whatever you find troubling to the IG, I-I, ombudsman, special counsel, or any Representative or Senator.

Step 2: Do not release them to the entire fucking world.

People do this all the time, and the Whistleblower Protection Act (recently strengthened last year) protects them.

[Scuba]

1. And if it just gets buried, then what?

[Recursion]

2. Things change slowly. People who can't accept that wind up in bad situations.

You probably won't find out what happens to your complaint, at least for a long time. And mature people learn to deal with that.

[Scuba]

6. Uh huh. So if you report a war crime, and after 20 years nothing is reported and you're ...

... upset about that, it's because you're immature?

Your whole premise is bullshit. As you are undoubtedly aware, President Obama was aware of the spying, so reporting it up the line was going to result in absolutely nothing.

[Recursion]

13. Immaturity may not be the only reason, but it's a common one I see

As you are undoubtedly aware, President Obama was aware of the spying, so reporting it up the line was going to result in absolutely nothing.

But the Senate alleges it was not.

If the Senators are lying about that, no amount of disclosure is going to help anything. If this is in fact the interpretation the Senate intended when it passed the law then, well, nothing wrong is happening from a legal sense.

If, in fact, Wyden didn't know about this, then Snowden should have sent it to him (or another Senator).

[Scuba]

16. "But the Senate alleges it was not. " Huh? Not what?

[Recursion]

17. Multiple Senators have claimed they did not know how FISC was interpreting the law

If that's true, then Snowden's appropriate course of action was to take that information to them. That would have made him a whistleblower, and arguably a hero, and would have granted him legal protection.

[Scuba]

18. And if it's not true, then he could have been quietly disposed of. Neat and tidy.

[Recursion]

19. Like I said, if Wyden and Sanders are lying, then nothing Snowden or anybody does is going to help

Outside of tinfoil hat land, however, there are improvements Snowden could have made if he had been a whistleblower rather than a leaker.

[Scuba]

21. No way Snowden could know if the Senators knew.

[Recursion]

22. No way to find out like telling them

I took concerns I had in Iraq to my Congressman at the time. It turns out he already knew about the problem I was reporting, but he appreciated having more stories he could use. The issue was eventually fixed, and I'm glad I had something to do with that. I never made it into the Guardian, though...

[AppleBottom]

71. And the ones that did know did NOTHING about it.

Great strategy...

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

48. exactly, the scolds always leave that part out

that this has been reported, many times, via official channels with nothing done about it.

So, when that fails, it is time for it to be brought into the daylight, so a real debate can be had.

which is what we are having now thanks to Snowden and the 1 journalist and his paper.

Of course, that amounts to naught for the totalitarians and their supporters, but for the rest of us reasonable people, it means a great deal that no amount of disinformation or character assassination can diminish.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Great idea. Take what you're blowing the whistle on to the people you're blowing the whistle on!

Ask Daniel Ellsberg how well that worked.

[Recursion]

4. OMG! Change takes time and is frustrating?!?! Tell me it's not true!!!

I had no idea!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Blowing the whistle on government spying is change.

[Recursion]

7. Then he should have sent the information to Sen. Wyden

That would have made him a whistleblower rather than a leaker.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. He blew the whistle on the government. Last I checked, the senate is part of the governemnt.

Wyden's a good man but has been under the same restrictions as Snowden about "secrets". How would he go about releasing the same things that Snowden did without having to flee the country?

[Recursion]

20. Wyden claims he didn't know about FISC's interpretation of FISA before this

I'm taking him at his word; other Senators have said the same (including some Republicans). If that's true, this is a great example of why Snowden should have taken his alleged information to a Senator or Representative if he felt the entire IG structure was compromised.

[Scuba]

9. Wyden was not in Snowden nor Manning's chain of command.

[Recursion]

11. You're never supposed to whistleblow through your chain of command. That's the point.

That's why IG's and ombudsmen are not in anybody's chain of command. And you can always take your concerns to a Senator or Representative.

[Bonobo]

51. "Chain of command"

= "Ooops, I revealed my true authoritarian nature"

[Recursion]

56. I didn't introduce the term to the thread

If you want a different phrase than the organizations themselves use, I'll be happy to use it.

[whatchamacallit]

23. This makes zero sense

How does change happen once the information has been buried (likely along with you)?

[Recursion]

24. OFFS

Look, if you're going to imagine a world where people who go to the IG are killed secretly, I have very little to say except that most of us outgrew our treehouses years ago.

[whatchamacallit]

26. We're talking about justice for specific crimes

The "be patient, someday things will change" notion is bizarre. What change, how?

[Recursion]

27. Same way it's changed in the past

Gradually, with some advances and some retreats.

[whatchamacallit]

49. Serious crimes need to be exposed

period. Don't really care about bullshit etiquette and protocol.

[Recursion]

54. Do they? Does that help?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[quinnox]

10. whistleblowers have been under siege so far

in this administration as well as the Bush administration. The only way to get this secret information out is to release it to the world. That way, the powers that be will have a major shit fit, and it can't be tapped down or quietly buried.

[Recursion]

12. How many people who have followed whistleblowers procedures have been prosecuted?

The answer is 0.

[Scuba]

14. How many people who have followed whistleblowers procedures have seen any results?

Same answer. But I guess they're "immature" if they expect results.

[Recursion]

15. Many of them. But actual whistleblowers don't get their pictures in the paper (nt)

But I guess they're "immature" if they expect results.

Fast, system-wide, spectacular results? Yes.

[quinnox]

46. Check this out if you want to know how aggressive Obama has been in prosecuting whistleblowers

“I can tell you that people who normally would meet with me, sort of in a more relaxed atmosphere, are on pins and needles,” Landay said of the reporting climate during the Obama years, a period of unprecedented whistleblower prosecutions. The crackdown on leaks, he added, seems “deliberately intended to have a chilling effect.”

Landay isn’t alone in that assessment, as several investigative journalists attest in “War on Whistleblowers: Free Press and the National Security State,” a timely documentary directed by Robert Greenwald of Brave New Foundation that premieres this week in New York and Washington. The film details the ordeals of four whistleblowers who turned to the press in order to expose waste or illegality.

“The Obama administration's been extremely aggressive in trying to root out whistleblowers within the government,” NBC News investigative reporter Michael Isikoff says in the film. The New Yorker’s Jane Mayer, describing the secrecy required in her reporting for a profile of whistleblower Thomas Drake amid government prosecution, said the experience didn’t “feel [like] America, land of the free press.”

Drake, a former senior executive of the National Security Agency, says in the film, "it's extremely dangerous in America right now to be right as a whistleblower when the government is so wrong." He adds: "speaking truth to power is now a criminal act."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/obama-whistleblower-prosecutions-press_n_3091137.html


Hell, there is even a new documentary film all about it!

[Life Long Dem]

58. Yeah, and...

November 27, 2012,

President Barack Obama signed new whistleblower protections into law, the White House said Tuesday.

The law, known as the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act (pdf), expands protections for federal workers who blow the whistle on misconduct, fraud and illegality.

It clarifies the scope of protected disclosures, tightens requirements for non-disclosure agreements, expands penalties for violating protections and adds to the staff of some federal agencies an ombudsman whose job will be to educate agency employees of their rights, a statement said.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2012/11/27/obama-signs-whistleblower-protection-bill-into-law/

[NuclearDem]

25. The whistleblower protections in this country don't truly serve to protect whistleblowers

They serve to protect the government from being publically embarrassed and allows agencies to sweep their problems under the rug and handle things "in house."

[Recursion]

28. What, specifically, about the law does that? (nt)

[NuclearDem]

40. The part that makes this the process:

Step 1: Take the documents, photos, allegations, or whatever you find troubling to the IG, I-I, ombudsman, special counsel, or any Representative or Senator.

Step 2: Do not release them to the entire fucking world.



Note that the people listed in Step 1 do not include the population at large. I'm not sure the IGs and people within the agency would be jumping at the bit to disclose their screwups to the public.

[Recursion]

42. The IG isn't in your command

And if you feel the IG is compromised, you can always go to a Senator or Representative. Why didn't Snowden or Manning do that?

[NuclearDem]

44. I can't speak for Snowden.

But if someone doesn't have faith in the whistleblower protections or the reliability of the agency to correct the problems themselves, then that doesn't leave them a whole lot of options.

[kentuck]

32. A lot of naivete...

Would think whistle blowers are getting a break if they get life in prison instead of the death penalty.

[NuclearDem]

50. Especially if those they blew the whistle on are walking off

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. If Snowden had only done that - Congress, the media and the public would be vigorously debating the

issue far more than they are now

[Gravitycollapse]

30. Why not release them to the entire world? Why doesn't the rest of humanity deserve to know?

Why the fuck not, Recursion? What exactly is so self-important about us Americans that we think the world doesn't deserve to know our dirty laundry?

Have no fear, we have a real enemy now. It's not the surveillance apparatus. No, no, they have been injured by the revelations of a man with no cooth. No pride in his country. Could you believe such a thing? That Snowden didn't even had the decency to keep his whistle blowing just a little bit secret?

[Recursion]

31. "Because I swore not to" comes to mind

I'm also not a "citizen of the world", personally; YMMV.

[Gravitycollapse]

35. Of course you're not a citizen of the world. That would require a modicum of humanism.

And when it comes to issues of nationalism, human identity is a permit granted by the state. To be outside of this issuance is to be outside of humanity.

[Recursion]

36. Sorry, I've seen too much of the world to buy that

And I'm very much a humanist; I just also know there are in fact very very bad people out there. Some in our government, yes, and others elsewhere.

[Gravitycollapse]

39. If you thought bad people were everywhere, yet support whistleblowing in the US...

you would support it everywhere else.

But you don't. Because nationalism invests human identity in the state. The rest are just a bunch of metaphorical savages on a reservation in New Mexico.

[Recursion]

41. huh? I support whistleblowing in the US and abroad

Not sure what your point was.

[Gravitycollapse]

47. Well, of course, we must respect the savages and their nations of chaos.

But only insofar that we identify them as the perpetual other. We have our problems and they have, to a lesser, simpler degree, theirs. And we wouldn't want these mixing. After all, they aren't us and thus cannot be trusted. Only our bad people can be trusted with such information.

[Recursion]

52. I'm still not following you

I've worked in Tanzania and Benin; how much do you know about the half of the world you so casually call "savage"?

[Gravitycollapse]

59. "I'm still not following you" - That's weird because all I'm doing is repeating you.

[Recursion]

60. FOAD. The global south are not "savages". You should be ashamed.

Don't project your racism onto me. You said that, not me.

[Gravitycollapse]

61. You don't get the allusion.

Which is understandable. Nationalists probably are not great fans of Huxley.

[Recursion]

62. I like Huxley more than Orwell; I think he understood the coming distopia better

I also think you've got a laughably naive image of me. Cheers.

[Gravitycollapse]

64. I'm not so sure of that. I think I've got your number.

[Recursion]

65. Carry on then

[quinnox]

53. I'm really loving your posts lately, Gravity

On this and other topics as well where I have read your posts. I have become a huge fan of yours!

[Gravitycollapse]

67. I'm glad because apparently some people want me to Fuck Off And Die.

[quinnox]

68. lol, There is a certain group of like-minded posters who seems to take great offense to the truth

and they get real mad when someone like you will bluntly and forcefully call it like you see it. You rock! I know I am not the only admirer.

[Zorra]

37. Do what is right, and no one can blow the whistle on you.

Corruption, lies, deceit, and criminal activity perpetrated against American citizens invalidates the contract; all bets are off after that, the loyalties of decent women and men will always be to the People in the face of corrupt and unjust authority.

[Recursion]

38. Governments will always be corrupt and abusive

It's a question of what you can actually change. Expecting perfection puts you on the long woo continuum between Nader and Paul.

[Zorra]

45. Honesty, integrity, and decency are not perfection. nt

[bowens43]

66. Wow. now that is a ridiculous argument.

[99Forever]

33. More like ...

... how to be ignored like a freakin' assclown.


Want to know how to ACTUALLY be an AFFECTIVE whistleblower?

Google Edward Snowden, he just gave the "best" the "intelligence community" (now there a fucking oxymoron, if ever there was) a master class in how it is done.

The NSA needs to sharpen it's tools. None of you are very sharp.

[Savannahmann]

34. Nuts

When the Senators are given a script of what they are allowed to ask, then oversight at the Congressional Level is at best a joke.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023402403

The response as you might remember, was the Least Untruthful Lie that James Clapper could tell.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023014982

So when someone does question a program, they get from the operators of the program, the least untruthful lie that the person sitting at the microphone can tell. That is when a Senator knows it is a screwed up program.

The only reason we are having the debate now is because people who saw the insanity and knew the truth behind the lies were willing to drag the program kicking and screaming into the light of day. Call them traitors, and suggest they work through the system, but the problem is that system isn't set up to find the truth when Senators violate the rules by asking a question. The system is set up to obscure the truth.

Now where are we? We are watching as each assurance falls by the wayside. The NSA programs have never been used to observe people domestically. Then the truth about that was revealed, and we heard about the FISA court and how that allowed them under the 4th Amendment, but they never didn't save the content, merely the metadata. Then the Op-Ed by Senator Feinstein said that they would access the content of the suspicious phone call in question ONLY AFTER a Warrant was procured by the FISA court, which would be possible only IF they saved the content too. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023377468

Then today we learn that the DEA got information from the NSA on intercepted communications, information that was passed along to Law Enforcement to set up phony traffic stops etc. The police were told to lie about what started the investigation. Violations of the rules our civilization is founded upon come numerous times a day, and we were ignorant of the entire thing, because it was secret to us the regular people. Because this has been operating since 1994, we are supposed to be totally cool with the fact that the police and judicial system participates in lies regularly to persecute people.

All of this we are learning about, all of it, is because someone decided that they could no longer stomach the lies. Senator Wyden when he smelled lies, could do nothing as a Senator to get to the truth, because even if he managed to learn some truth, was prohibited by the same secrecy rules that people say these programs must be protected by.

Reporting to the IG isn't going to change these things, and prevent the further erosion of Civil Rights. Reporting to the Ombudsman would have accomplished even less. The only people with the power to end this crap was Us, the citizens and voters. Now that we are learning the surface truth, with only our imagination to limit how deep and dark these programs get, is there a chance, a slim one, of change.

The one thing that isn't ever coming back though, is the naïve belief that the Government cares about our Civil Rights. The false image of a Government dedicated to defending the rights of the people is one that will never return.

So your assumption that the whistleblowers of today, by informing those who have spent their entire career violating the rules, that they are in fact violating the rules, will ever have any impact is not just short sighted, but borders on insane. We have within the last two months, learned more about our Government than they ever wanted us to know. I wonder what the next two months will bring us. The one thing I am certain of is that every assurance that there are lines the Government will not cross, sounds weaker than the last. Because so far the programs we have learned about, cross lines that they had previously said they would never cross.

Then there is the Historical examples. The only time that a system does start to reform itself, is when those truths become public knowledge. The NYPD of the 1970's didn't suddenly decide to stop taking bribes because Frank Serpico reported to his boss that the cops were all crooks. They stopped because Frank Serpico testified before a City Government Panel and in full view of the press. The secret was in the light, and there was no more keeping it hidden. The NYPD was forced to investigate, and prosecute those taking bribes, not because some IG or internal affairs learned about it. But because the PUBLIC demanded it.

Finally, there is no basis in law for keeping illegal actions secret. You might want to consider that when you suggest that whistleblowers keep their mouths shut and try working through the system.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

43. How to perpetuate the problem

is what that is a recipe for.

Spying on everyone needs to be told to everyone, and that is what a whistleblower does, especially after repeated attempts to correct the problem internally. (lets not forget about that fact).

With what we now know, only a supporter of totalitarian policies would continue to try and demonize the whistleblower and/or the journalist who published the information, imho.

[snappyturtle]

55. Didn't work out so well for Manning,did it? nt

[Recursion]

57. Manning didn't do this. He released the information to a third party extranational

IIRC he talked to the IG and was unhappy with the results. That's why you can go to a Congressman. Why didn't he do that?

[snappyturtle]

69. He was in the military. Seems like the military is a world unto itself and has

it's own routes. He was so personally troubled at the time that I doubt he could
have done more.

[bowens43]

63. you got step 2 wrong, releasing them to the entire fucking world is appropriate

[AppleBottom]

70. Report criminal activity to the criminals, brilliant..

Step 2. Sit on hands and wait to be dragged off to Guantanamo.

[Th1onein]

72. Sorry, Recursion, it doesn't fly.

People do this all the time and it doesn't work. And, if they're lucky, they aren't prosecuted. Look at Thomas Drake.

[tkmorris]

73. Man, you are REALLY invested in tearing these guys down huh?

How 'bout this instead?

How to be an actual whistleblower: Blow the damned whistle. Wherever, whenever, and to anyone that needs to hear it. I count myself among that number in this case, odd that you don't.