General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDiamonds Are Bullshit
American males enter adulthood through a peculiar rite of passage -- they spend most of their savings on a shiny piece of rock. They could invest the money in assets that will compound over time and someday provide a nest egg. Instead, they trade that money for a diamond ring, which isn't much of an asset at all. As soon as you leave the jeweler with a diamond, it loses over 50 percent of its value.
Americans exchange diamond rings as part of the engagement process, because in 1938 De Beers decided that they would like us to. Prior to a stunningly successful marketing campaign 1938, Americans occasionally exchanged engagement rings, but wasn't a pervasive occurrence. Not only is the demand for diamonds a marketing invention, but diamonds aren't actually that rare. Only by carefully restricting the supply has De Beers kept the price of a diamond high.
Countless American dudes will attest that the societal obligation to furnish a diamond engagement ring is both stressful and expensive. But here's the thing -- this obligation only exists because the company that stands to profit from it willed it into existence.
So here is a modest proposal: Let's agree that diamonds are bullshit and reject their role in the marriage process. Let's admit that as a society we got tricked for about a century into coveting sparkling pieces of carbon, but it's time to end the nonsense.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rohin-dhar/diamonds-are-bullshit_b_3708562.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
LWolf
(46,179 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)phantom power
(25,966 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,833 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)she'd be very upset.
We have a simple 40 dollar wedding band.
Grown2Hate
(2,010 posts)cubic zirconia and that I better not spend over $200. ::swoon::
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Shows what I know...
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I have a diamond ring that an ex-boyfriend gave me before he dumped me for a girl 30 years younger, but I have the diamond ring and she never got one.
sarisataka
(18,600 posts)I thought they were carbon
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'd be very surprised to see piles of holmium on a pasture, wouldn't you?
sarisataka
(18,600 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)Or make a massively overpriced phonograph needle.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Then we had two gold bands for our wedding. The ring wasn't expensive because I couldn't afford much. I don't make a habit of buying diamonds and I personally hate all jewelry.
Link Speed
(650 posts)Play it at your wedding (which are, in my opinion, the biggest waste of energy and money on the planet).
It will be worth a fortune when you retire.
Make sure you insure it in your name, just in case your marriage fails - which is about 50/50.
tridim
(45,358 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)If you have to leave in a hurry, converting one's assets to diamonds is a simple way to carry a lot of cash in a subtle way, because they're easy to hide or put in a cheap setting covered with a bit of dirt and grease to make them look like fakes.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Thav
(946 posts)my mom bought a box of costume jewelry at a thrift store years ago. In it was a crazy dirty, scuffed, rough looking ring containing a .5 carat, .15 carat, and some chips. We spent a bit having a custom ring made for it. So for about $500 we had a very nice looking, custom ring valued at about $3200.
When we told my mom and dad what mom found, my mom said, "WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY JUNK NOW!??!!" to my dad. Hilarious.
onenote
(42,694 posts)they can send them to me.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The cosmic diamond is a chunk of crystallised carbon, 4,000 km across, some 50 light-years from the Earth in the constellation Centaurus.
It's the compressed heart of an old star that was once bright like our Sun but has since faded and shrunk.
Astronomers have decided to call the star "Lucy" after the Beatles song, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)Until you try to mount it on a Niven-Class ring.
sakabatou
(42,148 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)If it takes a chunk of cash to make your prospective spouse happy, and "prove" that you're serious?
You're doing it wrong.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)When I asked my wife to marry me, I did a full financial disclosure. I showed her where the money for an engagement ring would come from (my Vanguard S&P 500 fund). I explained to her how much of that money I would lose to capital gains taxes if I liquidated the investment. I also explained to her how much that money would hopefully grow over time if we kept it invested instead of spending it on a ring.
I told her that I was fine either way she wanted to go. If having a ring was an important part of the process to her, I'd be happy to oblige. On the other hand, if financial security was important, we could keep the money.
She opted to keep the money. I've always joked that it was then that I was sure I had made the right decision. I still haven't sold the fund. She sometimes used to ask how much her "ring" was worth now. We'll be celebrating our 20th anniversary soon. I'll let her know then that her "ring" is now worth more than 5 times as much as it was when I proposed.
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)was for Diamond Nexxus.
I recall seeing an ad directed at men suggesting how much they should spend on an engagement ring. It was something like six months salary that they suggested. That is crazy.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)to every gossiping old biddy I know. Or a few hundred for a convincing fake, whatever.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,124 posts)I doubt that I can ever afford it, but if I were to win the lottery and wanted to buy a piece of jewelry to flaunt my wealth then I would choose my birthstone which is an alexandrite and have it set in platinum. I'd also have the benefit of having a gemstone that undergoes a color change between natural and artificial light.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Alexandrite is beautiful. My dream ring would probably be a green tourmaline, emerald cut in 18k gold.
TexasTowelie
(112,124 posts)I had to start somewhere though so I went for my birthstone. FWIW, the price for a 1 carat alexandrite ranges from $500 to $12,000 depending on clarity and color change.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)I have one unset I bought several years ago. I should see if I can sell it.
TexasTowelie
(112,124 posts)Larger alexandrite gemstones are extremely rare. I believe the only known deposits are from Russia, Brazil and possibly India.
The smaller carat weight stones are more common and are occasionally offered on Jewelry TV and other gem shopping networks. I'd suggest contacting a few jewelry appraisers to get a quote. Good luck!
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)People spend tens of thousands on a marriage and thousands more for lawyers to get divorced.
Those propaganda diamond ads are sickening. "Get her a more expensive tiny bit of mineral or you're a loser." The price of diamonds is greatly inflated by these crooks too.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)The $500 cake. We're told it's normal to pay 3 figures a place for catering when a decent meal, including grog, can be easily done for less than $25 a head.
Make it byob (mixers provided) and you can do an EXCELLENT meal for the same price AND make a decent start on a liquor cabinet for the happy couple from the spoils.
One upon a time ordinary people invested TIME in the marriage celebrations of their offspring. CA$H went to solid things like bricks and mortar.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Warpy
(111,245 posts)after he's cleaned out the bank account and run off with somebody younger. Other than that, I suppose sentimental women consider it a symbol they can flash around that somebody loved them enough to go into debt for it.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)But I have the diamond ring that I can hock.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I didn't care about a diamond at all, but my husband wanted to give me one when we got engaged, so there it is. He bought me diamond stud earrings, too, which I've worn maybe once. I'm just not in to jewelry, but I guess they're an investment.
flvegan
(64,407 posts)No, it's not for me. Honest.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Better investment, more fun, and you can't park a rock someplace quiet.
flvegan
(64,407 posts)LOL!
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)malaise
(268,930 posts)What if your hubby of many years buys you a gorgeous pair of earrings - amethyst with diamonds
Some folks buy toys - cars, fancy phones, computers, tablets, etc.
I own very little jewelry but my hair is completely silver these days and those earrings look gorgeous. To each her/his own.
Oh I never wanted a diamond engagement ring.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)...but those look gorgeous!
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)although i prefer rubies/emeralds.
Warpy
(111,245 posts)and we did. I've never particularly been into bling, but I told him if he ever got stumped for an Xmas gift and went for a ring, to make it green for Ireland or blue for my eyes.
I've been happily divorced for 28 years and have never missed having a diamond that he spent too much only on and that I'd never have liked. I buy my own damned jewelry and I pretty much stick to local NM rocks set in silver: lapis, turquoise, fossilized coral, azurite, malachite. I like them much better than bling.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)If it means something, buy a few silver coins and put them away for 30 years.
malaise
(268,930 posts)Put simply human beings with spare cash buy a whole lot of shite.
JI7
(89,247 posts)a lot of technology is useful for various reasons.
but i do agree about those who feel the need to be the first to buy the newest latest crap when what they already have is ok enough.
malaise
(268,930 posts)Remember when videos were the rave - record players. I love our tech stuff but when last have you used a video player or a record player? Likewise old computers have to be replaced,etc., etc. I'm betting you replaced the old TV with a flat screen.
I think the worst thing we ever bought was the micro-wave - we haven't used it in years because we prefer food cooked from scratch.
JI7
(89,247 posts)maybe you don't use the microwave but a lot of people do .
i haven't bought a flat screen yet but if i had money i might.
but a diamond is nothing more than just wanting to show off to others and impress them. i guess something like a television can be comparable if someone doesn't have much money and wants to impress people by buying an even bigger tv when they have one that is just fine.
malaise
(268,930 posts)but is it any less true for a BMW, Benz, etc.
I can't speak for anyone but I don't care who likes or dislikes my earrings and the diamonds are real tiny anyway - they won't impress anyone.
JI7
(89,247 posts)and they do it for themselves.
yeah, there are probably a few people who might actually like diamonds . but the point of the article is that much of it's success is due to the marketing campaign. and people feeling like it's worth saving up a few months work of income to buy that crap. that same pressure is not there for cars.
there might be someone who does save a lot of their money for a car but they will do it because of their own personal interest and enjoyment.
i would rather spend it on travel , restaurants, books etc.
malaise
(268,930 posts)That said we used to travel a lot and we love good restaurants. We have way too many books and we will always find money for more.
Almost everything we think we need is due to marketing.
Marie Marie
(9,999 posts)I'm a car enthusiast and would rather have a cool performance car. Made my husband very happy because he is a car nut too and we could enjoy it together. But even then, never wanted more car than I could afford. Spend on whatever brings you pleasure - as long as you don't spend beyond your means.
malaise
(268,930 posts)No Vested Interest
(5,166 posts)sometimes I cook my breakfast oatmeal in it,
sometimes I warm water for a cup of herbal tea.
I think it must be 20-25 yrs old, and still doing well.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Still have an old analog CRT TV. Haven't bought a flat-screen. Obviously don't have BLU-ray. Do have smart phone. Got rid of the land-line five years ago. One car is six years old, other one is 14 years old - both run well. Computer is two years old, wife's computer is about the same.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Actually I think I watched "To Kill a mockingbird" because it was being discussed on DU. I have a number of movies on video that I still do not have on DVD. Although the number of those is getting smaller and smaller as I get more DVDs.
I read an article probably ten years ago complaining about DVDs. It said something like - we know that film (or videos) will last for hundreds of years. But how do we know that in twenty years we will still be able to get DVD players (if the technology has moved past it).
Of course, by now, in twenty years, if I am lucky, I will be 71 and my movie collection might not seem all that important to me by then.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)When my husband proposed, he brought a fabulous handmade silver ring with no stone. When we got married, I got him a black hills gold ring and I got another handmade ring from the same artist, this time with a small cabochon sapphire in the sculpture. I think we both spent far less on rings than anyone we know, and we're perfectly happy with that. If he'd wasted a ton of cash on some stupid diamonds, I would've been really upset.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)well OK I don't wear ANY jewelry but it shocks me how many people fall for the diamond bullshit - just more proof how people are sheep
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Fantastic fine abrasives, on an industrial scale. In fine layers, they have unique electronic properties, they make superb surfaces for reflecting and refracting, and there are experiments where super fine diamonds act as very efficient catalysts.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Diamond is very useful, but if you grind up your engagement diamond it won't be worth much.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Which takes away their "rarity" but spares a few African slaves.
hunter
(38,310 posts)One of my nineteenth century ancestors traded California cheese for coffee and tea. He was one of the smart ones. He could buy diamonds for his nieces.
His idiot male relatives and in-laws chased gold and silver in the mines. One of my great grandfathers was an idiot mining engineer. He'd get fairly wealthy on one scheme, from Montana to Mexico, and then lose it all on the next.
He ended up dead, in the loser column.
His kid, my grandfather, ran away from home during one of the bad times and later joined the army air force. After World War II he became an engineer and made many of the titanium parts for the Apollo program.
That was real. Humans landed on the moon. Gold, silver, and diamonds as a measure of "value" are useless trinkets in comparison.
My parents are artists. I never learned to respect wealth or authority, which probably explains my current economic situation. But I've still got my soul.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Wait till you see the look on her face when you give her a diamond. A man doesn't buy a diamond expecting a return, the return is her affection.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Affection is much nicer when it's earned.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)but there's always a possibility that I'll meet an amazing woman some day and propose to her.
JI7
(89,247 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)My wife isn't in the business of selling it either.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... ahead of you.
Diamonds for jewelry are for fools.
But their use as a cutting tool, keeps them from being completely worthless.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)exactly PC to admit to it, but I like sparkly things and I love my diamonds.
And Moissanite, which I think is even prettier than real diamonds.
But anyway, as far as I can tell, no guy who ever gave me a diamond (3 marriages, 2 broken engagements) looked like he was pressured into doing it. At least, certainly not by me.
And yes...I gave the two guys I broke up with their rings back...
Anyway, if we're going to do away with the societal pressure on guys to buy diamonds, then we might also want to do away with the idiotic idea that the only "right" way to have a wedding is to spend thousands of dollars on some big ass party where the bride gets to star in her childhood fantasy.
Often, the wedding costs aren't even paid for when the couple splits up. IMO, that's money that could have gone toward a down payment on a home. Or a new vehicle. Or into the bank for the inevitable "rainy day".
So. If there's anything more useless than a diamond, it's a stupid huge wedding where people get drunk and act like fools and the bride is deliriously happy that the florist finally got the roses in her bouquet to match her shoes.
I think diamonds are gross, but spending $25K on one day of your life is almost morally reprehensible.
And expecting your guests to spend hundreds or thousands on "your day" is just rude.
Xema's not planning on getting married, but iffinwhen she does, it's going to be in the woods or on the beach and there's going to be a big campout for the guests. Food's going to be cooked on the grill and people can wear whatever they want.
It's my girlhood fantasy.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Your description is uncanny in its accuracy.
indie9197
(509 posts)Start your new marriage off by getting yourselves and the bride's family in debt up to the eyeballs! My daughter is getting married this fall and I am hating it. I wish they would just have eloped. But I am a cormudgeon now.
hatrack
(59,583 posts)You'd hope so . . .
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)are bullshit, fine. Don't buy them. Don't wear them.
I happen to like jewelry of all kinds. Precious gems, semi-precious, gold, silver, copper, brass. All that stuff.
And a diamond ring will retain a hell of a lot more of its value than the dress and the $20,000 -- or more -- wedding reception.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)I agree - the money spent on a wedding is completely ridiculous. Spend it on things that last.
we can do it
(12,182 posts)ShadowLiberal
(2,237 posts)I read that 3 months salary is the 'typical' value you should go for when getting a wedding ring, which I've always thought was an insane waste of money, even 1 month's salary is insane.
I make a base $60,000 a year, but with bonuses would probably make around $70,000 by the end of the year, which means a $15,000 to $17,500 ring. That's insane having a ring that's worth MORE then someone on minimum wage makes in an entire year, it makes the ring a great thing for thieves to steal and resell.
And then on the other side, if you're earning close to minimum wage and living pay check to pay check, $3,750 is a crazy amount to waste on a ring, especially if you're struggling to just to feed yourself and pay rent on your salary.
Honestly, I'd consider myself to be getting ripped off big time if I paid more then $1,000 per ring, despite the fact that I have well over $100,000 sitting around in my bank accounts.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)My wife's diamond is my Grandmother's reset into a modern setting when we were married.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...on jewelery.
How else do you think they can manage quarterly 50% off sales?
If you can't knock at least 30% off the price on the tag you aren't even beginning to try.
If you must have a diamond ring, buy loose stones from a reputable BROKER and pay a jeweler to mount them. Twice the bling for half the price and chicks really dig that sort of thing.
ileus
(15,396 posts)850 bucks....marriage 13 years and two kids. My wife still wears hers...less than one 1999 paycheck invested she was/ is easily worth it IMHO.
We did upgrade her wedding band a few years back for less than 500 bucks to give the set more shine.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)My husband and I were so poor I didn't even wear a wedding dress. He didn't wear a tux. But the one traditional thing we did do was get rings with the help of my father. He offered to help us with them. It's the one material thing that lasts more than just that one day. We've been married 19 years now and I love my ring. I could have done without it, but I am glad I have my ring. I do think that women in general put too much importance into the wedding ceremony. I guess you could include rings in that as well. The important part is the promise you make to be there for one another over the years. That's what counts.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)I think this habit will become much less common. Many of the younger generation are having to survive on low wage jobs and they are simply not going to spend the money on four figure engagement rings.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)It sucked. Wife doesn't really care anymore about it. If it gets lost, there is no way in hell we'd replace it.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Even if you just buy an emerald or ruby with the money, at least you know it will appreciate.
(Estate quality only, most of the new stuff they're pulling out is crap)
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)It's ridiculous to be expected to spend 1/4 of your annual income on a stupid ring.
We got a diamond solitaire, but went cheap. We have no regrets.
Wolf Frankula
(3,600 posts)And Poor old De Beers never got a cent from the use of his name.
Wolf
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Deep13
(39,154 posts)trackfan
(3,650 posts)engagement or wedding; we had the rare "no ring" ceremony. I think we're the normal ones, and maybe the rest of the world is nuts.
No Vested Interest
(5,166 posts)The diamond is not large by today's standards; the setting is simple but pretty.
Jewelry is not important to me, so it never occurred to me to ask for a larger ring when we were able to afford it.
Instead of a ring, we raised a family, traveled, and created so many wonderful memories.
He's gone now over 3 years, and I treasure the ring as the gift of my young love.
I don't need any other jewel.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Still, these things have value because people think they have value. Of course they're not "intrinsically" valuable. Food when you're starving, water in a desert- those things, arguably, have intrinsic value.
But thinking you're just going to explain people out of thinking things like diamonds are valuable doesn't display a very astute understanding of human nature.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)They're millions of years old. And quiet beautiful.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)They are lovely examples of fine craft,and no one in Africa has to get KILLED for them.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)... money that would be better spent on a house.
signed,
your dour uncle Scrooge
Kablooie
(18,626 posts)Or was I thinking of smoked almonds?