New Hampshire buys armored vehicle to fight Occupy movement

[Cyrano]

The thing even has a 50 caliber machine gun. I'm not sure what army they're expecting to "invade" them.

New England is one of the most liberal regions of the country. Yet New Hampshire seems to be a southern or mountain state that somehow got misplaced.

Any DUers live there? What's wrong with NH??


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/occupy-free-state-project-dhs-police-concord

[geek tragedy]

1. You're distorting what the article says, and providing CT fodder

After the public release of a document where he suggested that Occupiers and libertarians pose a domestic terror threat to Concord, New Hampshire, the city's police chief has backed away from the claim.

In an application to the Department of Homeland Security seeking more than $250,000 to purchase an armored police vehicle, the capital city of New Hampshire specified the local branch of the Occupy movement and the Free State Project, an effort to recruit "liberty-loving people" to relocate to the Granite State, as potential sources of terrorist action.

"The State of New Hampshire's experience with terrorism slants primarily towards the domestic type," the filing reads. "We are fortunate that our State has not been victimized from a mass casualty event from an international terrorism strike however on the domestic front, the threat is real and here. Groups such as the Sovereign Citizens, Free Staters and Occupy New Hampshire are active and present daily challenges."

The application was obtained by the New Hampshire Civil Liberties Union through a public records request, and is one of more than 250 filed by the American Civil Liberties Union to track what it sees as the increasing militarization of police departments throughout the country.

While the sovereign citizens movement has a history of racism and violence, Police Chief John Duval now says that he doesn't actually believe the Free State Project or Occupy New Hampshire are domestic terror threats. "I wish I would have worded things different in retrospect," he says. "I understand why their eyebrows are raised about that." He chalks up the wording to the limitations of writing a detailed proposal in only three pages and says it was meant to refer to the "unpredictable nature of unpredictable people who attach themselves to otherwise lawful situations."

They wanted a big expensive bad-ass toy, and they were dumb enough to list two non-violent groups (Free State and Occupy) as a possible threat. Still disturbing, though.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. So he got his toy and then walked back the statement?

Which means DHS bought into the statement when it approved the grant?

This OP is a perfect example of an issue posted by kpete this am, which I had just finished reading before clicking on your post, geek...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023413859

[geek tragedy]

8. No, it means the DHS approved the grant. I have my doubts as to whether the DHS

even reads those forms.

The chief was trying to throw in as many possible justifications as possible, and got way overinclusive.

Note that the other nonviolent group he mentioned are libertarian kooks.

[LordGlenconner]

11. Common practice

You are right, many law enforcement agencies 'pump up' the need for these bells and whistles when applying for grants. Bullshitting like that has become an art form.

But to some, it's a sign of martial law, Stasi!, surveillance state etc.

[Berlum]

12. That's right, M'Lord

Some people -- commoners usually (aka honorable American Citizens)-- face the facts of creeping Fascism, Inc, even when we know it will -- alas -- cause the Tea & Crumpets Set, Inc. (R) to bunch up their panties in utter shock at the audacity of it all.

[LordGlenconner]

13. What will you do about it?

Besides grouse on an internet message board, likely wearing your knickers and eating ghastly American chocolates? If one had to bet it would be nothing.

Good day.

[Berlum]

31. You need not bet, but if you wish to FAIL further go right ahead

[sabrina 1]

41. Hey, welcome to DU. Just FYI btw, your lordship, in this country Civilian Law Enforcement

does not use Military Weapons against American Citizens. Look it up, you will find it 'interesting'. I think you have your countries confused:

You are right, many law enforcement agencies 'pump up' the need for these bells and whistles when applying for grants.

'pump up'! Well you get credit for the 'understatement' of the past decade.

[AppleBottom]

48. He meant what he said the 1st time.

He only took it back when he realized it was bad press.

[Dawson Leery]

2. Eliminates the COPS Program. Byrne Grants, and transfers of military equiptment

to local police.

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. This would be a good start.

[MADem]

3. NH has always been right-ish. They have that nutty Union Leader newspaper.

Their wingy people are very wingy. Their "business interests" sector is very proprietary and aggressively aggrieved, in perpetuity, it seems.

NH's motto is "Live Free or Die." The "free" they worry about most is freedom from taxation--they have no income tax, but they'll screw property owners six ways to Sunday.

The exodus of people from MA to "just over the border" has, over the years, mitigated their impact, and the Blue team has started to make gains, but it's a rough slog.

[bunnies]

16. Gee. Thanks to the fine ex-Mass residents...

for saving us from ourselves.

[MADem]

21. Hey--NH was a lot redder before the exodus from

"Taxachusetts" back in the seventies. It just was.

NH has become slightly more liberal because of those people--don't take offense, it is true.

Shaheen finally vanquished Sununu, but you're still dealing with Ayotte--another one "to the right of Attila the Hun." And Annie Kuster is a "jumper"--she used to be a Republican.

Remember that cretin, chickenhawk adulterer Loeb who ran the Union Leader? He was a right-wing nut job who orchestrated the Muskie business. I never paid for that rag, but I read it a few times back when he was at the helm--his hate-filled editorials gave me chills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Loeb_III (I strongly urge anyone reading along to click that link, just for the gossip in the biography--this asshole was a typical Republican, in all their chickenhawking, lying, cheating glory.)

The population of NH has become more diverse in the last thirty or forty years, too--it's still pretty light, but I can remember a day when anyone with any appreciable melanin was regarded as an extreme oddity. Most of those folks -- including some of my relatives (all Dems, FWIW)--migrated up from MA, and they've done so in the last forty years.

People who live in southern NH especially, odds are good that a fair share of them have got relatives in MA, and that's where their ancestors came from.

[bunnies]

28. You know what?

I *just* remembered, while reading your post, that my Stepfather was from MA. He moved to Nashua (where I grew up) before my mother met him and continued to commute to MA every day to work. He was no Democrat though. Not by a long shot. Thankfully I got the D genes from my Mom.

Nashua was pretty diverse, at least compared to most of NH. Probably because its right on the state line. Where I live now though, close to the coast, is still pretty white though we're getting there. As for Manchester... I wish I could cut that cancer right out of the state and send that rag of a newspaper with it. If Manch has any redeeming qualities, Ive yet to discover them. I'd love to send all of our wingers there and wall it off.

And you cant throw a rock without hitting a libertarian. I shudder to think what might happen if Rand Paul runs in 16. Theres a house around the corner from me that STILL has a huge Ron Paul banner up.

I just hope the north (Ayottes district) smartens up and throws her out. She's an embarrassment to the rest of us. Especially the way she jumps in the wagon with McCain and Graham.

We definitely still have work to do up here.

[MADem]

35. A big ass branch of my family lives in NH--up by ski country, a bunch of them, and

a smaller, rather elderly snowbirdish contingent right around the Hampton Beach area. A dear auntie who died recently lived up in Concord, her sons are still up there with their families. Democrats all! None of them--not even their adult children--were born in NH, but they've all been up there for three decades or better!

I can tick off five or six classmates from university who started out in MA, or settled in to jobs in MA after finishing school, who also migrated for the tax benefits.

The libertarian citizenry is a bit creepy, I agree, and they do kind of skew the conversation, as well as throw monkey wrenches in the Once Every Four Years show that happens on the slushy streets of Manchester, Concord, Nashua, etc...! Of course, Bill Clinton benefited from that kind of craziness, with Perot, but they make it all kind of risky. Then again, the First in the Nation game gets the ball rolling, but it can sometimes fade with subsequent contests. But hey, NH likes the millions that little show brings in--it's a huge piece of the economy. The more "news" that is made in NH, the more the hotels rooms get filled, the more business the restaurants do, and everyone is smiling...!

[bunnies]

38. I lived in Concord for years after we moved from Nashua.

Up off of Loudon Rd., before it was so built up. And my Grandparents lived in the downtown area for decades. Talk about a small world. Hamptons great during the off-season... but this time of year... ugh. Closest we'll go is Rye. Youve got to scale a rock wall to get to the beach but not a ton of people are willing to do it so the beaches are relatively barren, which is nice.

If we were rich though, we'd move to Newburyport. Plum Island is just SO amazing. All those mansions falling onto the beach though... its heartbreaking.

I dont look forward to primary season, really. Its great that the candidates come so much... but the hammering we take for being a small, white state gets a bit much. It was amazing though, last November when Obama came to Concord with Bill Clinton. We waited FOUR hours in a line that stretched almost a mile down main street. I cant imagine a case where a Republican would draw a crowd even close to that. People were standing far past the flag you see way back in the distance. It was really something.

[MADem]

40. Wow--I'd love to rec your post just for that picture!!!!

They had a beautiful day, didn't they? Look at that crowd!

[bunnies]

43. It was cold as hell but definitely worth it.

Everyone was so excited to be there.

[Berlum]

4. NH - It's a Granite State of Mind (R)

Place went to hell the day George AWOL Bush (R) strutted like a peacock across the deck of the Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier, disgracefully proclaiming "mission accomplished" 10 freaking agonizingly long years ago.

Immediately thereafter -- check it out -- the venerable, dignified Old Man of the Mountain "lost face' and crumbled into dust in Franconia Notch. Beholding the Republican lies and arrogance, the Old Man took the honorable path of Seppuku - formal ritual suicide.

[Orrex]

6. I would never take it for granite.

[bunnies]

19. The state "went to hell" because some rocks fell?

Bullshit.

[Berlum]

23. Nah. Follow the sequence.

The state went to Hell (R).
Snu, Jr. (R) sent to US Senate
George AWOL Bush lies America into war then lies about "mission accomplished."
The Old Man loses face.

Tragic (R) but true.

[MADem]

36. I don't think the state has gone to hell. NH has a lot of good stuff to see and do.

In fact, I think it's on a bluer track. Here's hoping, anyway.

I miss the Old Man, though. I was one of those "impurists" who thought they should climb up there with some rebar and cement and re-do/put back together the damn thing. For me, close enough is good enough!

I used to like to drive the Kancamagus highway and loved coming up upon the Old Man, it was a high point of the trip! I'm pissed now that I never took any "I was there, way back when" shots!

[snappyturtle]

7. Is the entire country nuts? This 'fear' excuse is getting old. imho nt

[former9thward]

9. What does southern or mountain have to do with it?

New York City police have the same crap times a hundred. Are they southern or mountain? Remember when Bloomberg said the police were his "army". That is the mentality of police everywhere.

[Cyrano]

14. I wish I could argue the point, but you're right. sigh.

[mockmonkey]

10. It was a great deal

Through DHS, buy an armored vehicle and get the snow cone machine free!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/12/stephen_colbert_sno-cone_machi.html

[bunnies]

15. It does NOT have a machine gun.

The truck is unarmed.

[Cyrano]

17. Ooops. Time for my remedial reading course.

[Brother Buzz]

22. Batteries not included

It does not come with a machine gun but it has a weapon mountable rotating roof hatch. It's not a stretch to assume the state armory could accommodate the vehicle in a pinch.

[bunnies]

29. It would have to be a hell of a "pinch"

Considering the armory is right in Concord. Theres no reason to put a weapon on this vehicle.

[Brother Buzz]

33. Terrorist moose rampaging the countryside?

If they have the weapons, one would assume they will remain secured in the armory. That is, until they haul them out for their annual target range 'Shoot 'Em Up', so the boys can get their testosterone fix.

[bunnies]

34. Well... theres things like this:

Anti-government extremist Ed Brown admitted in court in July 2009 that he pointed a .50 sniper rifle at U.S Marshals who were executing an arrest warrant on his property in New Hampshire. Brown and his wife, Elaine, are charged with 11 felonies in connection with a nearly nine-month standoff with federal agents. The couple amassed an arsenal that included 22 pipe bombs, dozens of gunpowder grenades, 10 booby trap devices, and two .50-caliber sniper rifles. They issued repeated threats against law enforcement agents. If found guilty, they face virtual life sentences. ("As any American would: Ed Brown takes the stand in his own defense," Concord Monitor, July 8, 2009).

[MADem]

37. They put their house up for auction recently IIRC--the auctioneers would not guarantee that there

weren't any booby traps around the place!!!!! I guess the sale is to happen in Sep of this year...

Pardon the Fuxsnooze link, but here's the story (figures they'd have it in an easy to find location):

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/20/bomb-risk-awaits-bidders-on-new-hampshire-tax-militants-land/

[WilliamPitt]

20. Some stubborn New Hampshire facts.

Governor: Maggie Hassan (D)

Senators: Jeanne Shaheen (D) and Kelly Ayotte (R)

House Reps: Carol Shea-Porter (D) and Ann McLane Kuster (D)

All women, only one Republican, and she's in trouble.

NH voted Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008 and 2012.

Every state has its whackadoos. Ever been to Central Maine?

[MineralMan]

24. And where is it that you live, exactly?

Does your state have a Democratic Governor, and did it vote for Obama in both elections? Are most of it's national legislators Democratic? Does your state have marriage equality? Perhaps you're speaking out of turn about a place about which you know very little. Could that be the case?

More to the point, does the city near you also have one of these armored units? I'm guessing it probably does.

[Fumesucker]

25. Perhaps the police chief of the local city was not babbling about Occupy being a threat?

[MineralMan]

27. Perhaps. I can't say.

In any case, an awful lot of cities and other jurisdictions are ordering or already have these things. They show them off, and they're real proud of them. Will they be used? Who knows, but they were free, so of course they want them.

[bunnies]

30. Also, the grant hasnt even been accepted yet.

Theres a meeting Aug 12 to debate whether or not to get the thing at all. Apparently we already have several... including one that was sent to Boston after the Marathon bombing. These things are pretty damn common, it turns out.

[MineralMan]

26. In Florida, the following cities also have one of these armored

vehicles:

Tampa
St. Petersburg
Temple Terrace
Ft. Lauderdale
Orlando
Miami-Dade
Lee County

That should be plenty, I guess. There are probably more. Any further questions about New Hampshire?

[NoPasaran]

32. Occupy movement? Is that still a thing?

Sounds like worrying your daughter is going to shack up with a beatnik.

[bluedigger]

39. Not just NH, Maine, too.

LEWISTON — People flocked to Marcotte Park on Tuesday for National Night Out as the Police Department showed of its newest additions: a robot and an armored personnel carrier.

...

Well, a 1981 M113APC, to be exact. But with a brutish exterior complete with asphalt-friendly tracks and sporting new LPD decals and paint, it's not your ordinary cruiser.

Nearby, Sgt. Michael Whalen operated another new arrival, the MARCbot IV, or Multi-Functional Agile Remote Controlled Robot, fresh from the U.S. Army and complete with an Xbox controller.

Speaking of the armored personnel carrier, or APC, Whalen said, "We just had it detailed this week." He said the department has had the robot about three months and a pair of APCs for one month. The second APC is being kept as a sort of parts car.

"It's just for rescue," Whalen assured a curious crowd. "There's no armament."
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston-auburn/2013/08/06/lewiston-police-unveil-armored-vehicle-national-ni/1404456

It's the militarization of our civilian police forces alright. But they don't come equipped with .50cals. To be fair, they might be somewhat useful as HAZMAT response vehicles, if equipped with an overpressure system, but they aren't very well armored. A .308 round could possibly penetrate them, as they are aluminum skinned. Great for a show of force, though.

[MADem]

42. I think some of it has to do with increased firepower from criminal elements, as well.

None of this stuff happens in a vacuum. Remember this?

and this, less well known:

If we had fewer guns about, the police would feel less need to be so tough and thuggish, maybe...?

I also think that the Bush era cuts to the community policing programs (the Midnight Basketball type stuff that took kids off the street, and the community mini-police stations, and foot patrols, that the GOP mocked) have had an effect.

[bluedigger]

44. It's also getting rid of surplus equipment; transferring them without eliminating private revenue.

The M113's are being phased out, and while one solution would be to melt them down into beer cans the makers of parts for them, like the diesel engines, would love to be able to continue profiting on repair and maintenance for as long as possible. It's hard to drive a stake through the heart of the MIC vampires.

[MADem]

45. Yes, that too--as it is, we are leaving a ton of crap behind.

It's a bit obscene, but I suppose it will benefit the scrap metal industry on the other side of the world.

[AppleBottom]

46. Dear God, what has happened to this country.

Well at least we're better than Russia.

[Le Taz Hot]

47. Please remember that these are the people who get to choose

our nominees.