Imagine How Many Lives Would Have Been Saved if WE had just surrendered .....

[dumbcat]

... right after Pearl harbor. We never would have had to use those awful bombs on the poor, innocent Japanese civilians and little babies.

Just think about it.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. ...

[Scuba]

2. I've been waiting all day for this thread. Please pass the popcorn.

[Niceguy1]

3. me, too

Du has been hard to stomach today

[Liberal Veteran]

7. Needs more Michael Jackson.

[awoke_in_2003]

65. And cowbell. nt

[hrmjustin]

8. I got some beer.

[Agschmid]

10. Yay! Beer!

[Liberal Veteran]

16. It wouldn't be the annual DU Self-Flagellation Day without beer.

[hrmjustin]

17. Got some Spaten.

[steve2470]

21. here's extra butter if you need it lol

[Fumesucker]

4. Ladies and Gentlemen, start your flamethrowers

[jberryhill]

5. Well that's thinking outside of the box, but...

...if we hadn't rebelled against the British, then the US couldn't have been attacked in the first place.

Or, if we hadn't gone to war with the Mexicans, then the Japanes could have attacked all the way to California, and still not reached us.

So, there is that.

[quinnox]

6. wow, brilliant point

Um, no, not really. A poor attempt at satire or copy-cat-ism.

But replying to this gets me one step closer to 17,000.

[Sherman A1]

11. An interesting point

The use of such threads to increase one's post count......

[quinnox]

15. lol, yes. I was going to keep it a secret, but the cat is out of the bag now.

There is a reason I have been so active lately...

[Sherman A1]

28. Well Played!

Well Played Indeed!

[quinnox]

36. heh

thanks, my friend. I will give DU a break for a bit, after I hit 17,000, and lurk for a bit. I don't want to wear out my welcome.

Not too long of a break, mind you.

[Sherman A1]

40. One would hope that your break is short lived

and would you share your thoughts on your favorite emoticon image?

I have become partial to this one of late.

[quinnox]

43. I will list them in order of my faves, first being best

[Sherman A1]

46. Interesting

A fine selection to be sure. Personally I like these..

I do feel a bit sorry for It seems never to be used

[quinnox]

47. Ha, the poor lonely pumpkin. You are right

I hardly ever see that one used.

[Sherman A1]

52. Together, perhaps we can

raise the status and usage of the pumpkin.

I will use it in all my posts on Wednesday of this week. Will You do likewise?

[quinnox]

55. lol, You are on!

[Sherman A1]

61. And you are almost there!

[redwitch]

76. In solidarity with the pumpkin.

[joshcryer]

69. I actually took your title seriously.

You never know with some...

[Orrex]

84. I hate to break it to you, but...

Each post will actually take you one step farther from 17,000.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. LOL

[hrmjustin]

12. Imagine if they did not attack us in the first place how many lives would have been saved.

[jberryhill]

31. Well, you can't attack a naval base that isn't there

[treestar]

88. Amen. And if they had not attacked so many other countries

And abused their civilians.

[Agschmid]

13. Oddly refreshing?

[Robb]

14. You wish we had said it was over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[Fumesucker]

20. Germans?

I suppose they had a roll in it.

[kiva]

22. Probably a sweet roll of some kind,

you know those Germans and their baked goods!

[Dash87]

75. They had a sweet roll until someone stole it.

Whiterun guards are suspected

[HardTimes99]

83. Would that have been 'Ein Berliner'? - nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. You might roll in it, I prefer to step over it. n/t

[quinnox]

26. "...had a roll..."

[Liberal Veteran]

30. The Germans stole that roll from the French.

Or as we call it now, "Freedom Bread".

[jberryhill]

35. A Kaiser Roll!

Nobody ever wants a Fürher Roll.

[Fumesucker]

39. Eva Braun tried it I hear

[jberryhill]

59. Who wouldn't want to toast their roll in a Braun

[awoke_in_2003]

66. It is an Animal House reference...

On edit: grabbed an iPad for the link - work blocks YouTube.

http://m.

[Fumesucker]

68. As was "roll", as in he's on one..

Otherwise I would have said "role".

People who explain obscure jokes are real killjoys.

[jberryhill]

71. As if "Animal House" was "obscure"

Philistines. In my day, we memorized the classics.

[Butterbean]

23. Win. n/t

[yawnmaster]

54. He's obviously not tough. eom

[okieinpain]

18. lol, then we wouldnt be having race problems in usa. nt.

[Isoldeblue]

19. Why? Were we losing? Don't think so.... n/t

[Deep13]

24. Um, no. National thinking doesn't work that way.

When people are threatened, they don't turn to the Beatitudes, they turn to the Old Testament, and rally around the flag.

I have often suggested that if America really were a Christian nation we would have simply forgiven Al Qaeda after 9/11 instead of going to war. Not surrender, of course, but just forgive to show that strength comes from humility. The govt. may have done something similar in 1945, but there was a real need to eliminate fascism (including its Japanese manifestation) from the world--a goal that was only partially fulfilled.

[darkangel218]

27. Lmso!! i expected a lil more from you.

[DCBob]

29. hmmm.. I do like rice and bonzai....

nah... its good we bombed them into submission.

[jberryhill]

38. They'd force shitty animation on our children...

...and have it mistaken for an art form.

[Old and In the Way]

32. Seriously, I'm embarrased for you.

You need to learn how to troll better.

[Junkdrawer]

33. It was funnier when Firesign Theatre did it. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

45. Found it:

[FDR Voice]
My fellow Americans:
This morning, at 6:25 A. M.,
Pacific Standard time,
combined elements of the Imperial Japanese navy and air force
ruthlessly attacked our naval base at Pearl Harbor in the Hawaiian Islands.

I have conferred this morning with Congress
and the Chiefs of Staff in emergency session.
We have reached our rendezvous with destiny!
It is our unanimous and irrevocable decision
that the United States of America
unconditionally surrender!

And now, my wife and I would like to return with you

for the thrilling conclusion of “Private Nick Danger, Third Eye.”

[Tagurrit]

62. Junk: And that question has never been answered!

To wit, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

[steve2470]

37. just think of how many lives would have been saved had our ancestors stayed in Africa ?

[jberryhill]

41. Some of them did

It's not like everyone left.

Only the obnoxious ones who were kicked out.

Take uncontacted tribes in New Guinea or Amazonia. They are descended from people who really didn't want to get along with anyone else.

[steve2470]

44. good points :) nt

[COLGATE4]

80. Re: your last comment on this thread

"Take uncontacted tribes in New Guinea or Amazonia. They are descended from people who really didn't want to get along with anyone else.". Do you suppose that DNA might show them to be the ancestors of today's Rethuglican Party? Just a thought...

[oldhippie]

42. C'mon, this is series ......

Think how things would be different if we hadn't ever entered WWII, like a lot of people wanted.

As long as we are discussing hypotheticals and justifications, why not that one?

[yawnmaster]

48. I am imagining a number right now. Can anyone imagine what number it might be?

Can anyone imagine what number I would be imagining if I hadn't responded to this post?

[quinnox]

49. 17?

If I'm right, I should play the lotto.

[yawnmaster]

58. That's quite the prime answer. eom

[ileus]

50. Honda's for everyone

[stevenleser]

51. What's that saying on the old DU2 tombstones???...

Thou hast disrupted...poorly.

[MrSlayer]

53. Well played.

Unit 731.

[Dash87]

56. Imagine if I turned into a pumpkin?

It would be pretty bad, because I would be a pumpkin.

[Dragonfli]

73. Not at all, pumpkins are brave and loyal friends with good hearts! -

(because it's Wednesday)

[jimlup]

57. Bad analogy

The folks who don't see that there is at least a moral issue are truly challenged. It is my suspicion (we can never do the test to prove me right or wrong) that Truman dropped those bombs as the opening shot in the cold war and it had little to do with the surrender of Japan which was more influenced by the Soviet declaration than the Atom bombs.

It would be false to say that the A-bombs had no effect and thus the experiment and yes the situation in Japanese war council was polarized at best but the emperor was ultimately a dove and in my opinion would have swayed the situation well before a ground invasion of Japan or the Atomic bombings became necessary.

By your post you are simply trolling. And you know it.

[Tagurrit]

60. Won-Lost

What kind of car do you drive? What kind of TV do you have? What brand of camera do you use or own? What brand of VCR-Blu-Ray-CD player do you own/use? Where does the worlds oldest person live? Where did the verified oldest man ever live? If you answered Japan to all those questions you'd be right. Seen pictures of Detroit taken in the last couple of years? How about Nagasaki or Hiroshima? Compare those to pictures taken in 1945 in all those places. In the end what was the difference between “winning” and “losing”? Do you really think the Japanese could administrate a country 20 times it's size? WE can't administrate this country as it is what makes you think they could? In the end “winning” and “losing” are relative terms. It's laughable that any country could take over a country this size full of independent people with guns in every home. Can you imagine? I think less people would have died total if we had surrendered. Maybe they'd be driving Chevy's in Tokyo now if we had lost, lol.

[90-percent]

63. Also

If we had the NSA in 1941, we cold have attacked the Japanese aircraft carriers before they took off to bomb Pearl Harbor.

-jim

[PowerToThePeople]

64. USA did not capitulate to Japan, Why does Obama capitulate to Republicans? n/t

[jberryhill]

72. Because nuking them will hurt property values

Hell, their mortgages are already underwater. They can't even sell if they can't pass a radiological test. Have you ever tried remediating Radon in a basement? You get too much Americium in your soil and you are in for the big bucks.

Home sales are picking up in fits and starts. This is no time to nuke the McMansions and trailer parks of the GOP. Takes out both ends of the market.

[Marrah_G]

67. omg

go back and read what you said. Do you even consider the japanese human? You are mocking the deaths of civilians? Those were HUMAN BEINGS..............

[Dragonfli]

74. I think it made it perfectly clear that it thinks them less than human and their deaths a joke:

the poor, innocent Japanese civilians and little babies.

There was no sarcasm involved, just the mocking of what it considered subhuman "little babies"

[one_voice]

70. Just think about this...

what if we hadn't rebelled against the British, we'd have universal health care. How 'bout that.

[Hissyspit]

77. Shut up.

[dumbcat]

78. Thank you all for the varied responses ......

It was a pretty good cross section of what I have come to expect in my short time at DU.

The vast majority of you took it for what it was, a tongue-in-cheek poke at all the Hiroshima/Nagasaki "what-if" threads. As was pointed out, you can what-if anything, but what is the point, other than to think about other possible courses of action and outcomes.

There were a couple of actual, thoughtful responses. I thank you for those.

And then there were the typical "TROLL" accusations that I have seen, in my relatively short time here, are so common whenever someone challenges the groupthink. My post was even alerted upon, merely saying "Obvious troll". Based on what?

And even the "You Monster" comments, accusing me of considering Asians sub-human and mocking the deaths of "little babies". What term should I have used? Big babies? Would that be different? Those posters are certainly only reading into the words what they wanted to see.

For the record, there was no mocking of innocent civilian deaths intended. I do not consider Asians sub-human (I have been married to one for decades.) I lived in Asia for four years and they had to put me kicking and screaming back on the airplane back to the US. I deplore the deaths of civilians in war. As a student of military strategy (at the Army C&GS school and independent study) from medieval times through the present, I also know that the death of non-combatants has been a constant throughout history. Sometimes as a matter of policy, sometimes not. And sometimes to a greater or lesser degree.

I did intend to stir up a little discussion, as most posters do. It didn't turn out quite the way I thought, but that's just another example of how strategy sometimes goes wrong. (At least I didn't get a lot of people killed.) So be it. I'm off to work.

[stevenleser]

79. The sarcasm smilie is there for a reason. When you dont use it, the implication is you are playing

it straight with your post. There are all kinds of opinions that get posted here. It is not at all out of the realm of possibility that someone would post what you did and meant it as is.

[oldhippie]

81. Although I cannot be sure of the poster's intent ......

Why wouldn't discussion of what would have happened if the US had not entered the war after Pearl Harbor be appropriate? Maybe surrender isn't the right word, but what if we had decided to sit back and lick our wounds and not opposed Japan? What if we had just pulled out of the Pacific and remained neutral? How many lives would have been saved? What would have happened? Enough people have thought about such things to write dozens of novels of alternate histories. Yeah, it's "what-if", but so what? It's not forbidden to my knowledge.

I guess I don't get the animosity to the OP. It could have been tongue in cheek, or it may have been serious. I don't really see a big problem with either.

[stevenleser]

82. Thats another discussion, I'm just pointing out to the OP that on DU when you are being ironic or

sarcastic, the smilie is an important tool to use because people have posted so many crazy viewpoints here and actually meant them that you cannot tell anymore.

The OP in their latest comment seemed to upbraid people for "not getting that it was sarcasm".

That doesn't work here. People have posted much more wild stuff than would be suggested in the OP and really meant it.

[oldhippie]

86. OK, I see your point .....

... but I don't see what was so wild about the original question, even if it was serious. I guess we all see things though our own filters.

[cherokeeprogressive]

85. The professional hand wringers HATE having their thunder stolen.

I thought it was fucking awesomely appropriate.

[treestar]

87. I'm beginning to think that's how some of these posters feel

We should just let ourselves be attacked, including by terrorists. It's one thing to complain of our interfering in other countries. But quite another thing to 1-ignore all aid we give other countries, including their defense and 2-to support them when they are the aggressor and not allow us a defense.